My DM forces us to multiclass at level 5. How do I create a powerful character that can survive?


Advice

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As it says in the title above I am in a game where we are forced to multiclass. The campaign has been very difficult and there has already been a TPK to an assassin vine. How can I minmax at level 7 and onwards with the following rules in place.

•Our first 5 levels has to be of the same class. Our "base" class
•Once we get to level 6 we can do whatever we eant with our class, but must switch to a different class or prestige class.
•We can NEVER gain any levels that we did for our first "base" class.
•When rolling for hp on any level above 5 we roll two dice. One for the "base" class and one for whatever class we are currently leveling into, and add them.
•25 point buy.

I should also mention that I am not great at making characters, and my last one died because of how weak they were. Also, there is a large focus on combat. So how do I wreck these encounters, or, at the very least, survive them?


Doesn't seem all that challenging? As a spellcaster opt for one of the prestige classes that increase effective caster class level. As a martial... pick any other compatible martial class.

Most combos would be viable, really.

I'd just avoid doing something like wizard5/sorcerer5/cleric5/oracle5. Or fighter/monk, at least without the proper archetype and build.

So largely, just do whatever. I don't think there's a dead-end option where after 5 levels there's nothing good to switch to.


Gunslinger 5 into anything dex based


It's not much of an issue for most martials, so if in doubt that's a safe bet. Gunslinger is perfect, fighter's okay... Whatever relies on class levels the least.

Likewise, stay as far away as you possibly can from any class that is entirely reliant on class level based features, unless some PrC can help.
Now is not the time to try your hand at being a kineticist.

For casters however, 5 will be too early for a lot of PrCs and barely enough for most others. Still better than a multiclassing that would actively hurt them, and some of the ones available are quite fine.
Just try to lose as few spellcasting levels as you can.

Anything with an aligned class feature or similar would lose less buuut... Your GM might not like that though.

Bottom line : What do you feel like playing ?

Grand Lodge

First 5 levels Primal Companion Hunter
Then 3-4 levels Eldritch Guardian Mutation Warrior Fighter with a Mauler Familiar (you will need the boon compagnion feat)
Then 1-2 levels Wild Child Brawler
Then 10 levels Mammoth Rider Prestige Class

At level 7 your full hitdice animal compagnion shares all your teamwork feats and your mauler familiar shares all your combat feats.

If the adventure is mostly urban or in dungeons the dismiss the Mammoth Rider Prestige Class


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First 5 level in wizard. Then one level of rogue, you'll need to retrain one feat into Accomplished sneak attack. Then level 7 to 17 in arcane trickster. Actual arcane trickster abilities are secondary to getting to be a full caster with only one level of spell progression missing. If you get that far you can take Loremaster levels to finish out to level 20, with 19 levels of wizard casting.


5 levels of Inspired Blade Swashbuckler, and then go into Magus.

If you go with an Elf, you can get a +2 racial bonus to overcome Spell Resistance, and the Magical Knack trait gets you another two CL... so you would only be -1 when it comes to getting past SR...

Or...

5 levels of Paladin, and then go UnChained Ninja...

Or...

Take 5 levels of Bolt Ace Gunslinger, and the rest in Warpriest. Dual wield hand crossbows and enjoy ridiculous TWF/Rapid Shot shenanigans with Sacred Weapon damage...

Or...

5 levels of Weapon Master Fighter, and the rest in Investigator??? Zen Archer Monk??? Arcane Duelist Bard??? Anything, really...


Evanvelist can be started at level six. Second level on advances abilities from your base class. Will require one feat tax, deific obedience.


Java Man wrote:
First 5 level in wizard. Then one level of rogue, you'll need to retrain one feat into Accomplished sneak attack. Then level 7 to 17 in arcane trickster. Actual arcane trickster abilities are secondary to getting to be a full caster with only one level of spell progression missing. If you get that far you can take Loremaster levels to finish out to level 20, with 19 levels of wizard casting.

I assume he can't go more than 5 in arcane trickster, but then there's also 5 levels in eldritch knight, dragon disciple, and/or a number of other prestige classes.

The end result will clearly be inferior to a straight wizard, imo, but he's even more likely to outclass any other caster who might just be stuck with level 3 spells at best.


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Save up feat slots for Favored Prestige Class and Prestigious Spellcaster to make up for caster levels lost to prestige class levels that don't advance spellcasting.


Variant multiclassing might also let you get some of the pre-reqs without actually taking the levels in classes that don't give spells. Hybrid classes can also potentially be handy for that.

So yea, making a good caster will be the biggest challenge, but presumably all other casters in the world will suck so it's not too bad. Mystic Theurge was also built basically for this kind of thing.


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This campaign isn't good for a Mystic Theurge. Remember that your 1st 5 levels have to all be in the same class. You would follow that up with 3 levels in another prepared spellcasting class and take your 1st level of Mystic Theurge at character level 9. You could do that at 7th level in a standard campaign.

Planning for a primary class in which you gain 5 levels (no more, no less) is the tricky part of these house rules.


It changes the order of things, but in the end, does it change much? After MT10, you were probably going to put some levels in your original class again.

Otherwise, eldritch knight. Wizard 5, take the feat martial weapon proficiency, and then from 6 on you can take EK. And if you end up taking fighter or some other martial class, you can presumably retrain MWP.


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Order matters in actual play when you haven't reached the level at which you have everything.

Eldritch Knight requires proficiency in all martial weapons, but the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat only gives you proficiency with one martial weapon. You need an actual level in a class that grants proficiency with all martial weapons to qualify for this class. Magus is the only single-classed spellcaster that would qualify on its own, but only after 7th level (which you are not allowed to reach).


Skald can also qualify single class, or bloodrager. Not that either would work here, or be good.


I'm sorry, I have to ask: how did an assassin vine kill everyone in the party?


Centry wrote:
Also, there is a large focus on combat. So how do I wreck these encounters, or, at the very least, survive them?

Quintessentialist Spirit Fuse Spiritualist 5 / Death Druid 2

This combo should give you a fully leveled Phantom that uses your ability scores and feats, doesn't have a range limit on Etheric Tether, and can run through walls. You're pretty much invincible as you sit back and relax while your copy is two miles ahead and fighting.
Level 7 is the perfect level to start this build, so you're in luck.

If Evangelist and the Aligned Class feature is allowed, as Java Man mentioned first, I'd go for that instead of Death Druid.


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And if Evangelist is not allowed, look through the prestige classes for one that you like and can qualify for with 5 levels in a single class, if possible. For a martial base class, for example, Ulfen Guard is a good choice. Eldritch Knight is the easiest choice for an arcane spellcaster (although you do lose a casting level when you have to take a martial level at level 6). Stargazer is a better choice for a cleric or a witch.


David knott 242 wrote:


Order matters in actual play when you haven't reached the level at which you have everything.

Eldritch Knight requires proficiency in all martial weapons, but the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat only gives you proficiency with one martial weapon. You need an actual level in a class that grants proficiency with all martial weapons to qualify for this class. Magus is the only single-classed spellcaster that would qualify on its own, but only after 7th level (which you are not allowed to reach).

Oh, yea, fair. I never took MWP (does anyone?), since there's really no reason to ever.

Oh well, do Wizard 5, then a martial class.

As for order with MT, well, sticking to your main caster class longer means having higher level spells as opposed to more of the lower spells for the earlier period.

But yea, easier to just go martial.


*Khan* wrote:

First 5 levels Primal Companion Hunter

Then 3-4 levels Eldritch Guardian Mutation Warrior Fighter with a Mauler Familiar (you will need the boon compagnion feat)
Then 1-2 levels Wild Child Brawler
Then 10 levels Mammoth Rider Prestige Class

At level 7 your full hitdice animal compagnion shares all your teamwork feats and your mauler familiar shares all your combat feats.

If the adventure is mostly urban or in dungeons the dismiss the Mammoth Rider Prestige Class

I really want to play as a summoner, but I feel like I'd be super underpowered.


Centry, almost all my builds multiclass extensively, I have a lot of ideas to share about this, and some good ones have come up, but to give you advice, I need to know what kind of character you want.

Blaster, healer, bruiser? Skill monkey, Shooter, support?


Goblin_Priest wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:


Order matters in actual play when you haven't reached the level at which you have everything.

Eldritch Knight requires proficiency in all martial weapons, but the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat only gives you proficiency with one martial weapon. You need an actual level in a class that grants proficiency with all martial weapons to qualify for this class. Magus is the only single-classed spellcaster that would qualify on its own, but only after 7th level (which you are not allowed to reach).

Oh, yea, fair. I never took MWP (does anyone?), since there's really no reason to ever.

Oh well, do Wizard 5, then a martial class.

As for order with MT, well, sticking to your main caster class longer means having higher level spells as opposed to more of the lower spells for the earlier period.

But yea, easier to just go martial.

He could go 5 levels in Fighter, then a level in Ranger or something, a level in Wizard, then go Arcane Archer.


Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Gunslinger 5 into anything dex based

How about Gunchemist Alchemist? Exploding bullets are cool.

Silver Crusade

Bloodrager or Bard 5, then the Dragon Disciple prestige class would work. Either way, strength is your primary stat.


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You can skip the level in Wizard if you take 5 levels of Fighter with the Child of Acavna and Amaznen archetype. At that point, the only Arcane Archer prerequisite that you can't possibly meet is the BAB requirement, so that is when you would take a level of Ranger.

It is then up to you to decide when a 2nd level of Ranger might make more sense than advancing as an Arcane Archer.


As multiclassing is generally a poor choice in pathfinder, those rules do limit optimization quite a bit, however they also make some of the multiclass oriented prCs more desireable than they otherwise would be. Now the first and most important thing to determine with those rules is your starting class. Since you are restricted to exactly 5 levels of that class, you need to pick something that doesn’t need more than 5 levels to be good.

Rogue: by level 5 you have 2d6 Sneak Attack, and you can take accomplished Sneak Attacker to reach the 3d6 you will need for some of the rogue prCs, you sadly only get 2 rogue talents though.

Wizard: your best option for arcane spellcasting due to spell level progression. At level 5 you have 3rd level spells which is the minimum requirement for most caster prCs. You won’t get much out of your arcane school with only 5 levels, so your best bet is likely to not specialize or take an archetype that trades out arcane school. Your class abilities will be primarily from your prCs as a wizard under those rules.

Sorcerer (Draconic Bloodline): by 5th level a sorcerer is only starting to hit their stride, you still only have 2nd level spells, which precludes you from most arcane caster prCs, and your bloodline powers require you to keep leveling. Draconic Bloodline specifically is the way to go with these rules due to the Dragon Disciple prC, while other sorcerers are stuck at level 5 bloodlines (9 with robe), you get up to 15 (19 with robe)

Fighter: Always a solid choice for a martial combatant, you get 3 bonus feats and a few minor bonuses to your offense and defense. However, fighter works best with more levels. Still it does make a good base for any prC focused martial build.

Ranger: you just got your animal companion, you just started casting 1st level spells, and you will never see any further progression to those two class features. Take an archetype that trades out spells and choose your allies for your hunters bond. You still get some handy benefits from your first 5 levels, and can now progress into some fun prCs.

Cleric: solid divine spell caster choice, there are several prCs that progress your channel energy and spellcasting to choose from. The only thing you lose out on is your domain.

Magus: depending on what you want to accomplish this can be a good choice or it can be a very bad choice. The good, at 5th level you are spellstriking with a 5d6 shocking grasp, you got your first arcana, spell recall, and a bonus feat. The bad, you don’t get 3rd level spells until 7th level, broad study arcana requires 6th level (preventing you from branching off into a different casting class), and you only ever get 1 arcana.

Barbarian: Rage, 2 rage powers, and improved uncanny dodge, that’s a pretty decent start. But that’s also a bad stopping point... but your perfectly capable of progressing into Rage Prophet to get that Greater Rage still, just pick Moment of Clarity as one of your two rage powers then take 1 level of oracle at 6th, from 7th-17th you level rage prophet.

Bloodrager: as is to be expected you hit the same roadblocks as both Sorcerer and Barbarian with this class at level 5, however you can actually follow either of the two classes prC paths from here on. If you are a Kobold Bloodrager you could actually follow both even. Infact I’d recommend a Kobold Bloodrager for this. Bloodrager spells are terrible so you don’t need to progress them, take the primalist archetype and Draconic Bloodline, trade one bloodline power for Moment of Clarity and another rage power, take the feats Scaled Disciple & Mad Magic, and 1 level of oracle, now you can progress into both Dragon Disciple and Rage Prophet, advancing your oracle spellcasting with both prCs.


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One idea is to go to aonprd.com and search the prestige classes there for the name of your primary base class. That could give you ideas for prestige classes to consider building towards. If that doesn't work out well, try searching for specific class feature names.

Also search feats for class feature names -- that is how you can find Accomplished Sneak Attacker, for example. Rogue actually gives you 3d6 sneak attack and thus won't benefit from this feat while you are advancing solely in this class, but it could help classes such as Slayer that have slower sneak attack progressions.

You should also consider traits that could be helpful. For example, if you are a spellcaster and know that you will lose caster levels that you cannot make up with the Prestigious Spellcaster feat, you might consider taking the Magical Knack or Bifurcated Magic trait.


Druid to hunter or vice versa, at least things like your companion would be maintained


Speaking of Druids, one of the ways people did martial shape-shifting before the Shifter was a thing was Druid 4 into Ranger, with the feats that help. You could do it as a Druid 5 with little alteration.

For a Summoner, depends what you mean.
An Eidolon would be tough, there aren't that many ways to get one. Genie Binder helps a bit, but that's only 5 levels.
As a caster that summons creatures though, some PrCs are made for that, though several require 7th level. Others are just decent caster classes that would work.

Evangelist is a thing, but you're kinda gaming the system at that point, so i'd check with the GM. Chernasado Warden and Winter Witch are in the same boat, though less so.


Cavalier and hunter? Not sure which I'd take the 5 in. Or draconic bloodrager into dragon disciple.


I have this one character that might fit the bill. I only built it up to level 11 and haven't had a chance to play it, but it could work pretty well.

5 levels of Gun Chemist, 3 levels of Trench Fighter, one level of Musketeer Cavalier, and 2 levels of Phantom Thief Unchained Rogue. To be honest, the Rogue levels are because of flavor so you can swap them out with 2 more levels of Trench Fighter and nab Weapon Training One.


If you want a melee focused character let me make a suggestion. Pick Skinwalker: Werebear for race. Pick up Reviving Rest and Surprise Weapon for traits. 5 levels of Fighter. Pick up Catch Off Guard and Shikigami Style for your 1st level feats. Add Endurance, Iron Will, Shikigami Mimicry and Shikigami Manipulation in the next 4 levels. Also for skills put 4 ranks into KS: Engineering and KS: History. Put 2 points into KS: Religion. It doesn't matter that most of those aren't class skills.

Then go into the Prestige Class Living Monolith. The whole reason you chose to be a Skinwalker is the 10th level ability that synergies with your trait. That will let you heal 45 hp each time you enlarge, or should I say Righteous Might? That is a long way to go for a payoff, but its huge.

Talking about huge, this entire build is all about big melee damage. Start with a Sledge (1gp, tool) which acts as an improvised Earth Breaker. In your fist level hands that does 3d6 base damage. Each Shikigami feat you gain after 1st will add a virtual size increase, driving the damage to 4d6 then 6d6 with 3 shikigami feats. Adding a real size increase on top of the 3 virtual size increase will give you 8d6 with a Sledge. If you use any 1d6 improvised weapon the progression is 1 lower. (2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6)

You'll probably want to pick up some odd 'equipment' to deal with damage reduction. A silver candlestick should be easy to find. A cold iron non-weapon might be difficult to find too, but a custom order would only cost 2gp for a cold iron Sledge. The cheapest way to get something adamantine is to buy a stubbron nail. Unfortunately it is only a CR 3 item which makes it a +0 weapon, but it would still count as adamantine. For 100 gp its extremely cheap. Probably counts as an improvised dagger. Look for miscellaneous items made from materials that overcome DR. Also a really cheap item to use for a main weapon would be any minor Metamagic Rod. Since they are CL 17 items they become +4 improvised light maces in the hands of someone with Shikigami Manipulation. Not bad for 1500gp (the cheapest metamagic rod).


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Centry wrote:
•We can NEVER gain any levels that we did for our first "base" class.

There's one way around that, indeed one approved of by your perhaps-unaware GM (no need to tell him), the Evangelist prestige class:

Concept: goody two-shoe aasimar who fell quickly to the dark side (but that's what happens when you have a fallen angel in your ancestry).

STR: 7
DEX: 10
CON: 14 (Peri-Blooded Emberkin Assimar; 25pt-buy 18,14,14,12,10,7 array)
INT+ 20
WIS: 12
CHA+ 16

Appearance: saucy femme fatale with a fiery temper
Alignment: chaotic-neutral
Deity: Andirifkhu
Racial alternative trait: Deathless Spirit
Character traits: Reactionary, Magical Lineage(?)

01 Arcanist1 [Exploit:Dimensional Slide], (FEATg retrained to Favored Prestige Class:Evangelist at 6th)
02 Arcanist2
03 Arcanist3 [Exploit:Quick Study], FEATg
04 Arcanist4 [2nd-level spells]
05 Arcanist5 [Exploit:Familiar], (Deific or Fiendish Obedience):Andirifkhu
06 Evangelist1
07 Evangelist2 [3rd-level spells], Prestigious Spellcaster
08 Evangelist3 [4th-level spells][Exploit:(something else recommended)]
~~
11 Evangelist6, [Subtle Razor:Sneak Attack +2d6]
12-20 four levels each of Evangelist and Arcane tricker

This is one way to build a full-level arcane caster with up to 5+9=14 levels advancement in base class features (e.g., Arcanist Exploits including Advanced Exploits, familiar advancement if you took one, etc), keep your free extra leveling hit point or skill point, and give you plenty of time to line up the second PrC at higher level.

Quote:
I should also mention that I am not great at making characters, and my last one died because of how weak they were. Also, there is a large focus on combat. So how do I wreck these encounters, or, at the very least, survive them?

Simple: be the caster this time, and let the other players gork their melee-enthusiast characters over and over again.

(If you're not interested in Arcane Tricker as the second PrC, and being a crazy redhead who delights in torture isn't your style, then the entire pantheon of deities is open, and perusing their obediences and Evangelist boons will keep you enjoyably entertained for quite some time. Trickster does offer an immediate +4 to probably every non-Int rogue skill you've thrown points at, e.g., Perception, etc., so it's a hard-sell in the end-loaded game where blowing a skill check is often as bad as failing a save if it means combat breaks out on the enemy's terms rather than yours.)

Arcanist is considered one of the most powerful classes in the game (and, depending upon whom is pontificating, the most powerful), so you'll quickly escalate in abilities. But you need to survive the baby levels under your dungeon-crawler GM:

* Buy a yak (24gp, 42hp) at 1st-level, and use it as a meatwall. Buy a guard-dog and have two meatwalls.
* At 4th, become Invisible full-time, and cast buffs, summons, terrain-modification, and other types of spells that do not specifically target enemies (and thereby break invisibility).
* A flying familiar can drop caltrops, Tanglefoot bags, and other alchemicals on the enemy.
* Memorize the withdrawal rules.
* Buy wands of CLW (among other divine items) and UMD them as a minmaxed Int-based arcane caster with an actually decent charisma score.

Your GM will get used to you hanging in the back, being difficult to target, and largely without much offensive ability to speak of at low level, and he'll tend to leave you alone as a non-factor while he directs his monsters to chew on the fighters. You lose a yak and a dog here and there. Once you hit 7th, your power ramps up drastically as a full-level arcanist with a full-level familiar and the benefits of the Evangelist PrC layered over it.

Early party roles: knowledge skills with an emphasis on identifying objects and opponents, and being low-level "face" w/Diplomacy (it's not class yet, but you'll be better at it than your Cha7 teammates, especially versus some male NPCs captivated by your charm -- and buy decent clothing for the bonuses they grant).

Sovereign Court

Meirril wrote:
The cheapest way to get something adamantine is to buy a stubbron nail. Unfortunately it is only a CR 3 item which makes it a +0 weapon, but it would still count as adamantine. For 100 gp its extremely cheap. Probably counts as an improvised dagger.

Shikigami Manipulation has minimum +1 weapon, not +0. I like that build a lot actually.

One character I have that sort of fits is an Alchemist/Unchained Rogue. I would normally suggest the Grenadier Alchemist first to get the ball rolling with Sand bomb, but in this case URogue 5 for Underground Chemist and Rake for debilitating strike/intimidate rogue's edge. Pick up Ranged Feint and Improved Feint.
At 11 the Main Trick:Swift action Alchemical Weapon to add Ghast Retch Flask for auto-sickened (save vs nauseate). Before 11 just skip this step or take Jury-Rigged Bomb for added damage.
Move action: Ranged Feint(maybe even Greater Feint for foes that aren't affected by blind) to throw a shuriken (so you don't need quickdraw)
Standard Action to use Explosive Missile with a Longbow + Tangleshot Arrow (to auto-entangle, save or be rooted to the ground) with a Sand bomb to auto-blind for 1 round. Tangleshot arrows do no damage, but target Touch AC, and its very important for this character to hit.
Free: Unchained Underground Chemist 4 allows sneak attack with Explosive Missile and Debilitating Strike on Sneak Attack(-2 AC/Attack or half Movement and can't 5' step)
Free: Rake allows you to Intimidate for Shaken(eventually Panic) as a free action in exchange for some of those Sneak Attack dice.
I like Mien of Despair to turn off Morale Bonuses for 1d4+1 rounds (bye bye barbarian), but you can go with Ninja Trick->Pressure Points for Str/Dex damage.

At level 11, 4d6 Sneak Attack (Accomplished Sneak Attacker, though you will likely trade out at least 1 die), 3d6+Int bomb and no bow damage so not huge on damage. But all the conditions.
So Bluff for Flatfooted to all (-Dex)
Then if you hit touch AC, auto: Sickened (-2 attack/damage/skill checks/saves), Entangled(-4 Dex, -2 Attack, concentration to cast), Blinded(-Dex, -2 AC, 50% miss, acrobatics to move faster than 1/2 speed), Debilitating Strike (probably -2 AC for allies)
Followed by a (low DC) save or: Rooted(can't leave square), Nauseate(unable to attack/cast, only a single move action)
Followed by an Intimidate check for Shaken(-2 attack/skill checks/saves) into a Save for Panicked(same as shaken + must flee)
So if you hit touch AC and make your (heavily invested) skill checks: -6 AC and flatfooted, -6 Attack bonus, -4 saves, -4 skill checks (perception anyone?), -2 damage, 50% chance to miss... essentially automatically.


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Meirril wrote:
Then go into the Prestige Class Living Monolith. The whole reason you chose to be a Skinwalker is the 10th level ability that synergies with your trait. That will let you heal 45 hp each time you enlarge, or should I say Righteous Might? That is a long way to go for a payoff, but its huge.

You may want to reread that ability and the reviving rest trait... they don’t synergies at all actually. Master Ka Stone heals you as if you had rested for a full night (8 hours), Reviving Rest requires a full 24 hours of complete bed rest. Sadly Master Ka Stone won’t trigger the 3xLv heal of Reviving Rest.

Liberty's Edge

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Take 5 levels of Winter Witch (archetype)... and then switch to Winter Witch (prestige class). :]

For the Summoner class, the effective eidolon level stacks if you take the Genie Binder prestige class with a Genie eidolon. Some GMs might allow the same with the Planar Extremist Druid archetype or let the Boon Companion feat make up some missing eidolon levels.


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Centry wrote:

•Our first 5 levels has to be of the same class. Our "base" class

•Once we get to level 6 we can do whatever we eant with our class, but must switch to a different class or prestige class.
•We can NEVER gain any levels that we did for our first "base" class.
•When rolling for hp on any level above 5 we roll two dice. One for the "base" class and one for whatever class we are currently leveling into, and add them.

Has the DM mentioned the reasoning behind these rules? What is he trying to accomplish?

Druid 5 into Green Faith acolyte 10. GFA advances both Wildshape and your companion to 11th level. Add Boon Companion for a 15th level companion. You will keep 15th level druid casting.


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The Genie Binder basically requires you to be the equivalent of an 11th level summoner before you can qualify for it, so you would need 7 levels of Evangelist to tide you over from Summoner 5. But a Summoner 5/Evangelist 10/Genie Binder 5 could have the eidolon of a 19th level summoner, so that is a strong option.


Centry wrote:

As it says in the title above I am in a game where we are forced to multiclass. The campaign has been very difficult and there has already been a TPK to an assassin vine. How can I minmax at level 7 and onwards with the following rules in place.

•Our first 5 levels has to be of the same class.

The Halfling Supercork (forced to multiclass version)

racial alternatives: Danger Detection, Fleet of Foot, Small Quarter Ally
character traits: Natural Flyer
01 Paladin1 [Smite 1/day], Fey Foundling
02 Paladin2 [LoH:1d6+2][Divine Grace]
03 Paladin3 [Aura of Courage][Divine Health][Mercy], Greater Mercy
04 Paladin4 [Smite 2/day][Channel][LoH:3d6+3]
05 Paladin5 Mounted Combat (*retrain to Indomitable Mount at 7th)
06 uRogue1 [Weapon Finesse]
07 uRogue2 [combat trick:Mounted Combat*], Deific Obedience
08 Evangelist1
09 Evangelist2 [Aligned Class:Paladin][LoH:4d6+3], Boon Companion

For each paladin level from 1st to 4th, take the halfling alternative leveling bonus (+1/2 hp to Lay on Hands, which is worth a lot more than just one hitpoint).

STR- 10
DEX+ 17 (raise 8th)
CON: 12 (halfling, 20pt-buy 15,15,12,12,12,10 array)
INT: 12
WIS: 8
CHA+ 17 (raise 4th)

Tactics: Your offense output prior to obtaining an Agile weapon is tepid at best, but there's no reason the monsters need to know that. So, offer yourself up as a chew-toy, laying on hands as a swift-action every round to heal any damage. (I played a similar build that threw nets and shot a crossbow at low-level.) The annoyance here is not having the rogue level early for quick access to finesse and UMD.

Grand Lodge

Slim Jim wrote:


01 Paladin1 [Smite 1/day], Fey Foundling
02 Paladin2 [LoH:1d6+2][Divine Grace]
03 Paladin3 [Aura of Courage][Divine Health][Mercy], Greater Mercy
04 Paladin4 [Smite 2/day][Channel][LoH:3d6+3]
05 Paladin5 Mounted Combat (*retrain to Indomitable Mount at 7th)
06 uRogue1 [Weapon Finesse]
07 uRogue2 [combat trick:Mounted Combat*], Deific Obedience
08 Evangelist1
09 Evangelist2 [Aligned Class:Paladin][LoH:4d6+3], Boon Companion

STR- 10
DEX+ 17 (raise 8th)
CON: 12 (halfling, 20pt-buy 15,15,12,12,12,10 array)
INT: 12
WIS: 8
CHA+ 17 (raise 4th)

Why not take the 3rd level uRogue to gain dex to dm.?

Are this a ranged combat build?


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Play a game where you, and not the GM, is playing your character.


*Khan* wrote:
Why not take the 3rd level uRogue to gain dex to dm.?

You certainly can, but by the time you'd get it (8th-level) in such a GM's-rules-constrained build, the cost of an Agile weapon is becoming cheap, and the additional rogue level just delays entry into Evangelist and subsequent resumption of paladin advancement. (Practically speaking, for paladin purposes you don't need any rogue levels, but it just feels wrong to be a halfling without a level or two given the synergies involved.)

A more game-mastery explanation is that the best melee weapon for such a build isn't something a uRogue could mechanically use right away: longsword, as in an Effortless Lace-equipped Agile Inheritor's Light longsword.

Quote:
Are this a ranged combat build?

Not necessarily (although it can certainly hit better at range prior to 6th). The primary role, aside from infrequent smites, is melee blocker and evil-attractant of the sort who'll attack a few times for minimal damage, then let all the bad guys swarm his good armor class chawing away futilely because he'll swift-LoH away a fat gob of damage every round.

Further LoH augments:
* +2d6 (Bracers of the Merciful Knight)
* +1hp per LoH die (Inheritor's Light longsword)

...both of which would bring over half-a-dozen LoHs to 6d6+4 apiece at 9th.

* reroll any 1s once per shake when healing (Envoy of Healing; religion trait)
* two extra LoH uses per day (Vestments of War)


Swashbuckler 5/devoted muse 10/whocares 5


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Slim Jim wrote:
Centry wrote:

As it says in the title above I am in a game where we are forced to multiclass. The campaign has been very difficult and there has already been a TPK to an assassin vine. How can I minmax at level 7 and onwards with the following rules in place.

•Our first 5 levels has to be of the same class.

The Halfling Supercork (forced to multiclass version)

racial alternatives: Danger Detection, Fleet of Foot, Small Quarter Ally
character traits: Natural Flyer
01 Paladin1 [Smite 1/day], Fey Foundling
02 Paladin2 [LoH:1d6+2][Divine Grace]
03 Paladin3 [Aura of Courage][Divine Health][Mercy], Greater Mercy
04 Paladin4 [Smite 2/day][Channel][LoH:3d6+3]
05 Paladin5 Mounted Combat (*retrain to Indomitable Mount at 7th)
06 uRogue1 [Weapon Finesse]
07 uRogue2 [combat trick:Mounted Combat*], Deific Obedience
08 Evangelist1
09 Evangelist2 [Aligned Class:Paladin][LoH:4d6+3], Boon Companion

For each paladin level from 1st to 4th, take the halfling alternative leveling bonus (+1/2 hp to Lay on Hands, which is worth a lot more than just one hitpoint).

Nitpick: You would have to take that bonus at levels 2-5. You don't have Lay on Hands at 1st level.

Silver Crusade

Five levels of life Oracle then go paladin. It’s suggested you take four levels of life Oracle but five is pretty close and you can use your life links to protect five party members if that happens to be the size of your group. That said fifth level oracle looks like the driest spot on the chart


Wizard5/Fighter1/EldKnight10

Human Dirty Trickster Abjuration (Counterspell) Wizard

Trait:
Magical Knack (so you don't lose spellcasting progression from taking fighter and EK1)

Skills:
Intimidate (Max)

Feats:

Level1W: Dirty Fighting, Human Bonus Feat: Spell Focus (Whatever)
Level2W:
Level3W: Spell Specialization
Level4W:
Level5W: Heighten Spell, Wizard Bonus Feat: Empower Spell
Level6F: Bonus Feat: Imp Dirty Trick
Level7EK: Greater Dirty Trick, Bonus Feat: Power Attack
Level8EK:
Level9EK: Cornugon Smash (Get a +1 Cruel Enchant for Shaken/Sicken) [BAB becomes +6/+1]
Level10EK:
Level11EK: Dirty Tricks Master, EK Bonus Combat Feat: Quick Dirty Trick
Level12EK:
Level13EK: Maximize Spell
Level14EK: [BAB +11/+6/+1]
Level15EK: Spell Perfection (Touch of Idiocy or Enervation), EK Bonus Combat Feat: (Lunge, if you use Fauchard)
Level16EK: Spell Critical: Get a +1 Keen Enchant on your weapon so you can critical more often, Greatsword (17-20) or Fauchard (15-20) are both highly recommended

Shaken/Sicken gives -4 to all saves. Enervation can reduce their saves by -1 for each Neg lvl you inflict.

At level 15, with Spell Perfected Touch of Idiocy, you can prepare a Maximized Empowered Touch of Idiocy with a 4th lvl spell slot that causes -9 Int/Wis/Cha, or with Spell Perfected Enervation, you can prepare a Maximized Empowered Enervation with a 6th lvl spell slot to cause -6 Neg lvls. Both of them are No Save, you just have to touch them, and with your Fighter/EK BAB, you should be landing them with ease. With Disruption from Abj/Counterspell School, Shaken/Sicken from Cornugon/Cruel, Blind/Nauseate from Dirty Tricks Master, and Emp/Max Touch of Idiocy or Enervation, you are the most anti-caster full caster out there. And no martial can touch you either, because you're still a Wizard with no spell progression loss.

Edit: You might get more bang for your buck by going Spell Perfected Enervation. -4 to hit/save from Shaken/Sicken + the -6 to hit/save from Neg lvls = -10 hit/save. Pretty nasty if you ask me. But on the flip side, if you hit a caster with -9 to Int/Wis/Cha, you could probably drop their primary casting stat to around 13-15, which can SEVERELY limit what level of spells they can cast.


Chell Raighn wrote:
multiclassing is generally a poor choice in pathfinder, those rules do limit optimization quite a bit

I disagree profoundly. You can make very powerful characters via multiclassing. Meanwhile, remember that when Pathfinder was created out of 3.5 rules, they changed the rules specifically to make multiclassing easier: they took away the experience point penalties for multiclassing. Single-class characters clearly therefore go against the intent of the rules!

Nyerkh wrote:
Speaking of Druids, one of the ways people did martial shape-shifting before the Shifter was a thing was Druid 4 into Ranger, with the feats that help. You could do it as a Druid 5 with little alteration.

I was thinking 5 levels of Brawler, then 4 levels of Druid, then the rest in Warpriest. With those levels in Brawler, the character has d10 hp: nice, and she can take Feats like Weapon Versatility. Warpriests get to replace regular natural attack damage with Sacred Weapon Damage for any weapon the have Weapon focus for. At level 9 after those 4 levels in Druid, with the Shaping Focus Feat, she will already be Polymorphing into Huge Animals, and then those levels in Warpriest steadily increase the Base Damage.

Another idea I had along similar lines is to play a Tengu Dreadnaught Barbarian with Claws, taking Lesser Fiend Totem for that Gore Attack. Then at level 6, take a level in White Haired Witch for a Hair Attack, then take levels in Warpriest to increase the character's Base Damage.


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Go Evangelist prestige class. You lose one level of class progression to your main class for some minor benefits, but you fulfill your GM's inane requirements while maintaining your power level.


Divine Paragon cleric (select Exalted boons) then PrC into Evangelist for no feat cost (and thus gains Evangelist boons too)..... BOOYAH!!!


doc roc wrote:
Divine Paragon cleric (select Exalted boons) then PrC into Evangelist for no feat cost (and thus gains Evangelist boons too)..... BOOYAH!!!

This is brilliant!

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