Clockwork Librarian

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Arazni's almost too obvious to be it. Especially since she's somehow not mentioned as an in-setting theory, even though supposedly her old pre-Geb teachings were still followed by a rare few in Lastwall.

My bet is : no single entity, but a small alliance of deific powers.
The Ragathiel hints are strong as well, arguments could somewhat be made for a few others and really, what kind of do-gooder wouldn't oppose goold old TarB'.

How necessary is the Cavalier part of the equation ? Also, why an eidolon?
You could just be a summoner fighting from the back of his eidolon mount. Not as good a fighter as a Cavalier, but not terrible at all, and with spellcasting if that's your thing.
Or one with the VMC of the other, though that's a slow and not very efficient way to do it.

But keeping with Cavalier while depending an a other class entirely for your mount is not ideal, to say the least.
Pet classes don't multiclass well, aside from the ones around animal companions.
Other possibilities include the feat that grants evolutions to your animal mount - possibly your best bet - or the phantom based archetype, if you just do not want a normal animal companion.
If there was a martial class with an eidolon, you'd be set, but that's about the one single pet option that martials don't get.

That's a good point I should have emphasized more : Animal Barbarian is very much the best approximation we have so far.
I do hope we get a more flexible, versatile shifting martial at some point, but I quite enjoy the barbarian for now.

Most of the 40 classes of 1E will show up at some point, one way or another. Some may not be actual full classes, some are likely to be fused, but we'll get them.
Shifter is not one of the four for next year.
But I'd expect it'll appear down the line. Probably not in the second or even third batch though.

Unlikely. At least not on a world changing scale. Adventurers' gonna adventure, but no more than before.

Gunpowder is still a very niche thing. Which is not insane, a (magic) bow or xbow is just way cheaper and easier to make, and not that inferior if at all. Well, depending on what 2E firearms end up looking like.
Alkenstar is also not really into spreading its one big military secret far and wide, I believe.

There was actually a thread on that subject a while back in the setting forum, including a T-rex post or two. I invite you to look for it.

I don't know that steam engine tech is much of a thing at all in setting. That opens doors magic can realistically replicate, and we have no hint of an industrial revolution.

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Partly because it's not sounding like a purely in-game problem, and killing the paladin doesn't prevent the player from pulling the same, exact nonsense next game.

And partly because "kill him in his sleep" and "recruit allies" is all the advice you need for the pvp bit.
That's kind of it.
If that's not possible, identify his weakness and use them. Avoid saves. Get him by surprise.
The "social death" option, while probably my favorite, may not be doable? If the party's always lost in the middle of nowhere, there's no way to make his well deserved reputation into a real problem. If it is, go for it. Make his behavior cost him.
He's certainly giving paladins a bad name, let alone the rest of his faith. I don't say this often, but he also probably should fall at some point.

As an aside : it's fine to not play with everyone.
I have acquaintances - and I know of gamers I've followed in streamed campaigns - who, while perfectly okay in another context, just will not play together because they know from experience that they're really not compatible on that front.
If you're decently friendly with that guy otherwise, and you want it to stay that way, not playing with him anymore is not out of the question.

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What about the other characters? Are you alone in this? What do they think?

Offing a paladin might be tough for you alone, but if your team's backing you, whatever they may be, the game changes.
This sounds like a campaign where PvP is okay, so recruit your party.
One person shanking him in his sleep is one thing (probably enough, but still), three is another matter.

Not only having allies will make it easier, but I'd argue if they disagree, you're just as likely to become the problem. And that's not good for the table.

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True. But whether talking to the player will change anything is not guaranteed.

You know the guy, we don't.
If you think he can be reasoned with, it's always the better option.
If not, well, again, depends on him. Chances are things aren't going to end well and nice. For killing him, sleeping people don't fight back much. If awake, you're a utility caster, I' d look at control and party buffs to beat him as a group.

Or, just don't fight. Refuse to deal with his nonsense.
It's hardly necessary to kill him, and risky to boot, when you can just kick him out of the party. No reason for the rest of you to tolerate someone actively trying to get them killed, or at the very least unwilling to play along with what the rest of the group has planned.
Reckless behavior and willing, unrepentant stupidity are a good enough reason to abandon a burden of a partymate.

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A planet sized apocalypse event doesn't mean that much on a universal scale, and Pharasma doesn't limit herself to Golarion : there is a lot out there.
Earthfall was - maybe - noticeable, but still anecdotal in the grand scheme of things. Golarion's solar system alone has seen what may be bigger events.
Really, the death of a couple gods was probably a bigger deal than all those mortals.

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Andoran is a democracy, Galt has been stuck in the 1790s for more than half a century , we went from having a stalled colonization dynamic in 1E to getting started on decolonization with the update, the Aspis Consortium pretty much is an early supranational megacorp, slavery is falling out of favor more and more ...

Technology is far behind, what with magic making it partly unnecessary, but Golarion is a very modern setting, at least in the most prosperous areas like the inner sea region.
We're not getting an industrial revolution anytime soon, but the ideas of the Age of Enlightenment have already been there for a while.

As with the rest of the setting, it's a mix of everything.
The Mammoth Lords are sticking to their Conan-like ways, Belkzen cares little for your ideas, Andoran has its flaws but is har at work trying to spread their ideals, Taldor is finally looking to modernize itself...

But ultimately, it's not "just" a medieval fantasy setting.

They're never going to be great with heavy armor specifically (at least not without archetyping right now), but sure.

Most Barbarians will have to rely on armor, as only Animal Instinct can do without.
Light or Medium is a matter of preference, and Heavy is not a class proficiency, so subpar as option.
At least until we get more heavy armored options, be they archetypes or feats, should that ever happen. PF2 could do an Armored Hulk adaptation with just a few feats, at best, though I don't know how good an idea that would be.

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I just want art of a few family life scenes.
Burly Lashunta towering over his family of fuzzy Iomedaeans (short as he is), actual kid Velloro learning the trade from yoski parents, etc. Even just a family photo.

I like him. Not how I'd approach the class, but this fits great.

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Looking good. Great art, and I feel like I'll like those 2 groups. Good to see people are still fighting in the land formerly known as Lastwall.

Chainswords and chainaxes incoming, nice, nice.

But, is the stance in fact not a stance ?
It doesn't seem to have the tag. I guess it could just be either a preview's approximation or entirely on purpose, but it's somewhat surprising.

Leshies seem perfect. You can grow them, one's a PC race and there are familiar and archetypes using them.
Not sure if you're looking for a PC option, a pet or just a setting information so...

It's been too long for me to remember Boguns, but other than leshies, Ghorans fit. Humanoid-ish plant creatures, created by a powerful druid to help in a war that ended long ago.

On a "more construct - less plant" approach, Wyrwood are intelligent constructs made of, well, wood.
Created to fight and die in their wizard masters' private wars, until they decided this was in fact not a good deal, and liberated themselves.

The various ways to get plant companions open options like a young treant, what is basically a Piranha Plant, an actual puffball or other planty things.
Summoner also has ways to get plant eidolons, leshy or not.

Agreed, this seems more sensible.
We'll see what the Spark of Ingenuity part is like eventually, but that at least looks good.
The name changes I noticed sounded better overall too.

Now, onto the Witchwarper!

There aren't that many ways to boost Inspire Courage and the likes period.

It's more going to be about your spell selection at this point. Being able to safely ignore group buffs is not a small thing.

Also, Bards don't have to be bad at fighting. They can be quite decent, you don't have to leave your ally shoulder it all (you can of course, it's just not mandatory).
And now that I'm saying that I'm reminded that Arcane Duelist has its weird weapon enhancing song, and that works best on a single piece of weaponry. It's another possibility. There's a few of those here and there.
Skald also has some similar options.

For a single target, you could also look at other ways to help. Aid another's usual downside is the single targetedness of it, for example, and that's not an issue here. There are a few ways to build at least a bit into it.

I expected as much, since Paizo's been good at taking the playtests into account, but I'm still curious as to what the changes are.
And with it being the class I'm looking forward to the lost of those three, I'm impatient enough that I'll to get a preview whenever I can.

Anyway, going by the PF2 character creation streams, this should be fun.

Some archetypes do that.
It's a big part of what makes a Lotus Geisha, for example : the possibility to target a single target, both with beneficial and hostile performances for increased benefits, without losing access to the normal versions.

I believe there's at least another one but I can't remember which one it is.

We might get to see that first hand during the stream, but if not : a question.
During the playtest, people were worried about the Int-based biohacker outclassing its Wis-based counterpart, from the Scientific Method giving seemingly more to the Studious option and the supreme versatility of its Spark of Ingenuity feeling superior to the Instinctive alternative.
Any change on that front ?

The only other question I'd have would just be... Any hints as to what else is in the book (beyond the new classes) ?

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Dropping Deadly Aim for Weapon Focus would be a start, I think. Big damage that hits noone isn't much use, very slightly lower that connects would be lore valuable.
Similarly, you're going to have a hard enough time with multiple attacks that I'd look into unwieldy weapons. If you're only attacking once, might as well make it count.

Not sure what you're trying to do with that drone beyond those general things, but those'are the kind of adjustments I'd start with.

I'm kind of curious as to how they got out of it.

To the subject : I don't like involving gods, especially when it feels entirely unnecessary.

They committed an obvious crime, in broad daylight, in front of a number of reliable, trustworthy witnesses. No matter what else, law enforcement will not turn a bline eye to'that without a very, veeery good reason. Which "it was shiny and I could do it" isn't.
Then they presumably got on the bad side of one of the most influential religions - and overall organizations - of the Inner Sea Region. One often close to the Law.

Even without that, people communicate, news or their exploits will travel, especially when it's something that important.
More and more people will have heard of them, it's not like they took any care to protect their anonymity - they actually went the opposite way, making sure the victims knew who the thiefs were! How brazen!
It might earn them some friends and opportunities in low places (until they're just too hot to associate with), but the light side of things and ordinary people should at the very least be very wary of them.
If they're willing to shamelessly steal a major relic of the Church of the Inheritor, who knows how low they'd be willing to stoop, how vile thay can truly be?

No need to involve the gods, their situation is bad enough as is : hell is other people.
Ever inflating rumors are a close second : the worse thing you can do to the characters is make them famous in spite of themselves, without them having any control over the stories being told, potentially getting worse and worse over time.

Up to them to earn their redemption and clean their names... Or not.

The combat chassis, with its low dex, is the least ranged friendly of the three.
Explode weapons is an option as said, since that's easy enough. Or you can just rebuild your drone with one of the other chassis, unless Combat as one specific thing you absolutely need. (Btw, combat drones flies just as well/badly as stealth drones, you might be thinking of hover drones?)

Deadly Aim is an issue of its own which I won't get into in depth (there's enough of that elsewhere in these forums), but I certainly would think twice before considering it on something that's already struggling for accuracy.

Survivability will be an issue regardless, but it's a range fighter, so careful positioning is your best bet.

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I'm actually quite fine with missiles not getting specialization, mind you.
I think.
Their base damage is way above other comparable weapons of similar levels. They take a big hit everywhere else to compensate, from needing to reload every shot, to the 1 Bulk each (oof), the price etc... and I honestly have no idea if that's just fine or too high a cost. Looks okay ? A niche weapon for when you need the one huge hit ?

My issues are with this whole "consumable weapons" thing.
As in : What does That mean ?

If missiles are consumables, what else qualifies ?
Only one out of five missiles has the explode property, so that's irrelevant - but it brings the arrows into question.
They (can) define the damage, like the missiles, and are single use as well. How do they behave ? And if they behave differently, why?
What about the more "standard" options, like the phasing and explosive projectiles ?

We're only going to get more specialized ammunition as time goes, I'd like to know how to handle them.

I kind of hope for either :
- the removal of the "and other consumable weapons" bit from the rules text - and the addition of missiles to the feat's, (new future weapon types can add similar information in their own description),
- an explanation of what is and isn't a "consumable weapon".
- or hell, just make up a weapon property for it. "weapons with this property never add specialization damage". Built-in future proofing.

Not sure if you're already aware, but it hasn't come up here yet so : if all you want to do is use certain revelations out of combat... You usually can. Just not for long at a time, and without the attunement benefits.
As per the last bit of the revelation text : You can use stellar revelations both in and out of combat, but since you can’t enter a stellar mode outside of battle, any revelation that lasts for 1 round or as long as you’re in a stellar mode lasts only 1 round if you’re not in combat.

The feat is worded quite differently, for some reason, with grenades being the one specific exclusion.

Weapon Specialization, the feat wrote:
Benefit: Choose one weapon type (small arms, longarms, heavy weapons, etc.). You gain specialization in that weapon type, which means you add your character level to damage with the selected weapon type, or half your character level for small arms or operative melee weapons. You can never have specialization in grenades.

I don't know why missiles wouldn't get specialization when other explode weapons do. Nor do I see how a missile is more of a "consumable" than a bullet. That's what trips me up here.

Missiles have higher enough damage that I don't mind that much, but seems unclear.

Edit : Wait, assuming missiles are "consumables" because they're the ones that set the damage and effect, rather than the weapon itself, what does that mean for other special ammunition, like the diamon-edge and molecular rift arrows ?
How about other special ammo, like the phasing rounds and the explosive everything?

I don't think that's a thing either, at least not a paizo one.
Weapon Material Mastery does things with silver and cold iron, but no bonus damage for those two.

Also, the real enemy of silver and cold iron is +3 weapons, let's be honest. Doubly so for cold iron, expensive as it is. It's great for ammo though.
Silver is pretty good for bludgeoning weapons early on, since they don't get the damage penalty.

Sure. Specialization not applying is a specificity of grenades, as per the feat. The explosive property doesn't matter here.

Should we have non-explosive yet damaging grenades, they wouldn't benefit either.
Missiles and other explosives, otoh, get the bonus just fine.

Title aside, fire is nowhere in his portfolio to be fair. He is all primordial life, all powerful and ever changing nature, as generous as it is harsh .
The whole volcano thing is kinda the ideal example of that, more than it is the core of the faith.

If there was some volcano based subdomain I'd absolutely expect him to have it (although even then, maybe more through Earth) . The Fire domain, as it is, doesn't really fit Valani's concerns.
For that matter, Islands are as relevant to him as volcanoes - if not more - and he doesn't give Water either. He's just not that purely elemental.

I do agree that it makes sense for separatist sects to grab Fire though.

The class and bits of content are on d20pfsrd.
It's probably late for that but I'd hoped some of the mechanics expert from these parts would look at it in depth, 'cause that class looks strong.

Yes. Mutagenist again, but only if that gets us a preview of the fix. Otherwise, meh. We already know how and why it's not great as is.

If not the leshyest of leshies to ever leshy, I want a hobgoblin.
But I'm really more interested in more info on what's in the book overall.

Occult may not have Heal, but it certainly has Soothe, and that's a decent healing spell.
Less versatile and powerful, but not a bad alternative.

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It's less what people want to do and more an example pointing out we have no idea what they can do.
"More than an animal" is not always a high bar, depending on the task at hand.

At the very least, the vagueness of it all guarantees table variation will reign supreme, from human-level intelligence and to ability to report accurately and execute complex time consuming tasks to just "dude, I'm a magic animal : I'm hungry, and that's all I know. OOOH, SHINY!".
The truth is likely in between those extremes, but we can't be sure.

It's a simplified and slightly different take on the rules ?

Also : untrue. Exocortex comes with a 1/day recall knowledge reroll, and a changeable Skill Focus, neither of which can be used while Combat Tracking is active.
Without having looked at it, I'm guessing the beginner box makes you choose between the options once and forever, rather than having to deal with two conditional alternative features.

I feel like you're making it seem more complex than it is, but yeah, seems correct.

If in doubt, the page I linked earlier has the step by step, it's an excerpt from the crb, and it has all you need. Good to have in a pinch.
You'll get used to the process soon enough, no worries.

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It's in line with Grim Tendrils damage wise, but only one of those is AoE.
It's strictly worse tha RoF at level 1, but I'm really not seeing the comparison with cantrips past level 1. It literally scales twice as fast as ray of frost... Should you, for some reason, be willing to heighten it.

It's definitely is on the very lower end of level 1 damage spells, though.
If it was d6 based rather than d4, it might be worth it.
The speed debuf might be interesting, but the alternatives include a displacement option with more damage, which is the next best thing. It's'a tough sell.
Whether it is worth it or not is a matter of debate, I guess. Snowball feels very situational, dependant on playstyle. Maybe too much so.

Leveling up as a multiclass is pretty much the same as leveling up "normally".
There's no special way to do it like there is in some other games.
You just have to follow what the class you're leveling in says, whatever happened before that doesn't really affect it. See the links for details.

For feat prerequisites, it's usually self evident - and most of them depend on character level. Either way, it's stated in the pre-requisites entry.
Class abilities are the ones that care most about class levels, and here too it will say as much, just pay attention to the wording and you'll be fine.
Item level is compared to character level, for availability purposes.

Up to you.

Normally, by the books : he can't, as he's simply not a spellcaster.
His version of Brew Potion and the Promethean discovery are specific exceptions allowing him to use alchemy to meet the spellcasting part of the requirements.
Master Craftsman is a work around for one specific type of objects - and you can only ever that once. Not that it's all that great.

It's a home game, so if you want to allow it you could.
Maybe at the cost of discoveries, for consistency's sake ? Or yo7 could just ignore the "Alchemy is not spellcasting" rule and be done with it
From then, you get the same issues crafting always has. Takes time and a few feats, but tailored magic items for otherwise half the price is not a negligible shift.
It's probably fine ? But the decision is yours here, as we're in houserules territory.

Edit : Oh damn, ninja'd by a much better answer.
So yeah, turns out the Material Mastery discovery is a thing, and it solves the crafting issues.
I'm not sure you'd meet the requirements for actually taking the crafting feats, weirdly enough. Something to look into.

I'd assume so.
The good Champion is all about protecting allies and retaliating against those who hurt them, with the potential benefit of drawing your enemies' focus to you instead.
A more classic "riposte when attacked" will probably more be something the neutral and/or evil champs do.

Unless the old "you're your own ally" rule applies here, but I haven't heard that much for 2e so far.

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Centaurs pose unique challenges, but with size being less meaningful mechanically, it'd probably be way easier than in 1E.

Maybe we'll get Large (and Tiny?) races at some point, the way Starfinder does. It certainly seem more doable now.

Edit : also, yay for leshies. Always liked the look, some of my favorite art. Grumpy leshy knight still amuses me.

There's not much rules needed as you pointed out. By which I mean, rules would not help much, but we can look at what we have for guidelines.

As is, a Deity is defined by
- All the things that are setting building more than mechanics : Portfolio, edicts, anathema, etc
- What comes from that, in broad strokes : Follower's alignment, the font (most have to choose one, a few allow both, if it's pertinent)
- The specific details : the skill, a favored weapon and 4 suitable domains
- 3 granted spells, usually low to mid level (pretty much always a lv1, at least one other before lv5, and one more, possibly also before or at 5, on rare occasions up to 7, I think). Nethys has a lot more, but he's the God of Magic itself (and TN to boot) so he's the exception. Said spells don't have to come from the divine list, if others make more sense but I feel like most still do (?).

So if you want to homebrew gods, start with a concept and go down the list. There isn't much more to it.

The distinction between lesser deities and major gods seems to be a thing of the past, as far as those rules go.
If a nascent demon lord and Pharasma follow the same guidelines it's safe to assume everyone does.

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It's definitely an issue, but Armigers wouldn't vary much based on order anyway. I suppose that's why things are as is. I half expect actual Hellknights to have alignment restrictions as well : formation's over, time to get serious.
Next book should give us the details, but needing a second book to use this well is... Not ideal. At least I might get to know what happened to the Coil, hopefully.

I am surprised the Red Mantis is lacking its one defining feature, the fact that those they kill do not come back. Not a big mechanical deal, but a tad sad.

I'm hoping the Magic Warrior will get more eventually. It is something they can do now, as they've mentioned, and I'm okay with MW being the first to'try that. Not like it has puch to lose.
If Aspect provided a bit more in terms of senses, or the mask did more for stealth and such, it could be a great intrigue/investigation archetype and I wouldn't mind missing on the shapeshift - it's kinda superfluous as is.

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Yeah... How worse is it than everyone else's helmet + radio chatter ?
Is it just a fashion statement or is he getting something out of those headphones ?

Balancing some sort of benefit is fine, punishment for entirely cosmetic choices seems harsh.

Things will slow down soon, if I remember what they were saying.
They just want to get more options out fast. A lot of us come from 1E, and that's got 10 years of content (not to mention 3.x), having more to explore in 2E would likely encourage the transition.
So I'm not too worried, I expect we'll slow down to a more sane rhythm soon enough.
Like, do we know what comes after the LO Character Guide? I know the APG is not coming for basically a year, but I forget what the schedule for Lost Omens products is supposed to be...

I will say that it's not the first time the big Gencon deadline led to releases that felt rushed and unpolished, and that I very much dislike, especially since it's usually things that would be caught and dealt with with just a little bit more time to work.
I have no idea how important the thing really is to the industry from a continent away (a lot, apparently), but I'm definitely not fond of that particular side effect.

This "having a deity" thing still bothers me.
Partly because I struggle with the idea in a polytheistic religion.
And partly because... How does it work? What's stopping me from changing my god-havings every week or so to suit my short and mid term goals, the way I'd pray to catch their attention, earn their favor, or appease them and earn a reprieve ?
Why actively punish the divine non-cleric casters that want to take a more pantheistic approach - or a purely utilitarian one, because worship is supposedly not what fuels sorcerer, blood is.

If one's power comes from granma's funtimes with angels, why would one need to align oneself with a specific, unique god - one possibly entirely unrelated to the source of one's power ?
Am I subject to the cleric's alignment restriction ? Why not, if they are the source of my power ? Why, if they aren't ? Does my blood play any role in who I have to choose to use for them spells ? Should it affect what effect they have?

Of course, house rules aren't hard to come up with in this case, but they're hardly perfect and just shouldn't be needed.
It feels like the divine list isn't taking into account the non-clerics (nor the TN gods, really), which I have a hard time believing : the sorcerer's flexibility was one of the first big thing we learned about 2E, and oracles were a big enough deal in 1e that we knew they'd be back.
I don't get it. There's a reasoning, somewhere, and it entirely eludes me.

Ah well.
House rules it is.

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2E needs half casters less than 1e did because high level magic is more sensible.
I don't know that we'll ever get "true" half casters, but I could absolutely see class feat based spellcasting, like an in-class take on the multiclass basic/expert/master spellcasting. Expanded a bit to be more solid but still optional and likely gated behind a subclass.

Most of those 1e classes will appear at some point though, one way or another : they're too important to the identity of the game not to. Just probably not the way they used to.

Canon is not to be a yoke, even less a prison.
If things in your home game work out differently than they end up in official storyline... It's fine ?

It's not that often that the official adventures tackle the big mysteries either, specifically for that reason. Dealing with major known issues, sure. Answering the big unknowns ? Rarely.

That, Inquisitor, Zealot, probably Reliquarist, the Niobe class, and a bunch of other classes and archetypes do a decent job of being divine warriors.

To be fair, Jatembe is the one who brought wizardry back to mankind, there just wasn't much competition for the term "Magic Warrior" back then. It actually was unique and awesome.

Ruffians only get their crit specialization with simple weapons, not any agile/finesse, which I assume is what Dustpan refers to.
So a Half Orc with a Knuckle Dagger would get it.
But a Goblin with a Dogslicer would not.

This does seem like an inconsistency that doesn't make much sense.

Edit : I misread the OP.
The goblin treating the Horsechopper as a Simple for proficiency and a Martial for everything else does mean that he won't be able to SA with it : ruffians only get to sneak attack with non-finesse/agile simple weapons, the Horsechopper is not one...despite using simple proficiency.
Gnome Hooked Hammer is the same, too.
If Orcs had a martial, non-finesse, non-agile weapon however, they could use it. Say if their Skull Ram makes a come back later on.

I'd say it's not a huge deal right now, but for future-proofing purposes I feel consistency would be a good thing.
My other point still stands though.

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I found the Armiger interesting, in that I believe it is the first archetype so far that is designed to interact with and benefit from other archetypes.
Which makes it kind of hard to judge until we get the full Hellknights and Signifier follow up, but I like the idea, and it seems like it has potential.

Magic Warrior was not what I expected. The others mostly had interesting approaches, if not all that convincingly implemented. It's going to be interesting seeing how archetypes evolve from now on.

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