thorin001's page

** Pathfinder Society GM. 2,146 posts (2,147 including aliases). No reviews. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 22 Organized Play characters.


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Since you are starting as a martial class you do not need to be an elf; the martial class gives proficiency in bow. If you still want elf for other reasons go for it.

You might want to specialize in transmutation. The physical enhancement power can really help with you needing so many stats.

Sounds more like an SEP field. That would be an enchantment spell with some sort of aura.

For defense depend on spells like mirror image. If you are good at UMD them a wand of shield might be a good investment.

Your choice of rage powers may depend on party composition. If lots of other party members can benefit from your raging song then you may want to look at powers that will fit their style of attack.
A good go to is the world serpent totem path. The 6th level one makes all weapons count as all 4 alignment types.

You could do monk. They have a very good touch AC. They also have easy access to deflect arrows. And easy access to snake style, which is very good for dodging touch attacks.

Go with barbarian/investigator. I would go unchained for the temp hp.
You get full BAB, d12 hp, all good saves, 6 skill points per level, and almost every skill is a class skill.
You use your extracts for long term buffs or healing.
One of your discoveries should be mutagen for redonculus strength.
I would take vital strike as a feat because you will be using move actions for studied combat and possibly stance rage powers.

Base stats:
Str 18 (+2 for 8th level)
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 7

As a suli you will want the incremental assault feat at some point.
Don't forget retraining. You can take extra performance at low levels and retrain it later when it is less useful.

Something to remember about the extra rage power feat, you cannot share those feats via raging song like you can with the rage powers you get with the class.

Ever read the old AD&D Birthright campaign? In that the rulers have a touch of divinity and gain powers based on their rulership score. The score is based on the quantity of people ruled and their quality of life. Conversely problems in the realm can result in issues reflected on the body of the ruler.

I would suggest a level or 2 of brawler. Martial flexibility synergizes insanely well with the dwarven scholar.

Otherwise blind fight is a good feat to share when the lights go out.
Honestly your feat choice depends on party composition. What is good for a melee heavy party is much less useful for a caster heavy party.

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Don't mess with the rules system until you have seen something not work in actual play. And then wait until you see it not work again under different circumstances. You can mess up all kinds of things with relatively small changes, so be wary of changing stuff until you know how the changes will impact other things.

In this AP you are going to spend a lot of time in the water. That means you will need to make swim checks. Also you need to use a piercing weapon or you will do no appreciable damage. If you do not plan for this, the game will be an exercise in frustration.

You are on an isolated island, so you will have a problem upgrading and customizing your gear. So thinking you will just get some aquatic upgrade for your armor or weapons is probably misplaced.

The cleave feat change is generally garbage. Until you are 3 or 4 feats deep into the chain your targets must be adjacent to each other. This is very rare in my experience as the enemy is usually trying to flank you.

Is the goal to wear armor or to have a high AC?
Assuming the latter you could dip 1 level into scaled fist archetype of monk. This would let you add your Cha to AC in addition to any Dex. Adding your natural armor and mage armor you can get a decent AC.

Anyone looking for a non-paladin demon slayer can use this suggestion. My PFS demon slayer is a barbarian. He has celestial bloodline and world serpent totem. He also went horizon walker PRC with abyss and hell as dominant terrains.

So if he hits you with a rock it counts as cold iron, silver, and all 4 alignments. Also gets a bonus to AC vs outsiders and and aberrations. And he has favored enemy bonuses against creatures from the abyss.

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Melkiador wrote:

First, this is a very old thread and most of the people you are responding to aren't around anymore.

Second, I'm pretty sure this was a change from 3.0 to 3.5. It was a mechanical limit to prevent certain builds that threatened criticals on 9-20.

You are correct on your second point. That was a deliberate change in the 3.5 update.

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Ninja. They do lots of roguey stuff and their ki powers are charisma based.

Skill focus (spellcraft) is a good investment for those planning on doing a bunch of enchanting.

I have found that barbarians with a sap have little problem bypassing sleep immunity.

Since Stockholm syndrome is a thing it is certainly possible.

There is always feyspeaker druid. They are a charisma based druid.

Chell Raighn wrote:
Mechanical Pear wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:
my first question is why? aside from it being a monk weapon, all you gain is that it now does 1d8, and if that's what you want, I suggest looking at the Nine-ring broadsword.
The crit profile, for a monk, and dealing more damage with power attack and wielding it two-handed.
There is no real benefit to wielding a weapon two-handed as a monk… you gain no two-handed weapon benefits just like you suffer no off-hand weapon penalties when using flurry of blows… the only time two-handed weapons benefit monks is when they cant perform a full attack action or on an AoO…

Not true for unchained monks.

The highest combo I can find is Kasatha fighter wearing scale mail and using a tower shield. 14 dex. Defender of the society trait. Dodge and shield focus as feats.
Base 10, +5 armor, +5 shield, +2 dex, +1 trait, +3 dodge. Total 26

At 1st level you are usually limited by gold. So your theoretical max very much depends on your assumption of wealth. If you can only afford a chain shirt then Dex is ha huge part of your AC. If you can afford full plate, not so much.

How much you rely on Dex determines if a tower shield us a good option for you. A tower shield has a max Dex bonus of +2, so someone with an 18 Dex has the same AC with a hvy shield as with a tower shield.

VoodistMonk wrote:

Outside of flanking, and not being immediately attacked, what is the goal?

There are abilities like Rogue Talents that allow enemies to count as allies for flanking and stuff, so the mechanics are not unheard of.

Are you going to go back and infiltrate the enemy organization?

Are you going to try command the enemy by pretending to be their captain?

Not being attacked (aside from the impersonated person) is definitely one of the goals. Getting the enemies to attack their ally by mistake is another. And setting up sneak attack or hidden strike is is a third.

Infiltration is a different subject. Right now I am just looking at combat. Infiltration would not work here because they know they have at least on imposter.

I had not considered causing confusion by issuing contradictory commands. But that is the kind of effect I was looking for suggestions on.

Wonderstell wrote:

Hm, sounds like a Kitsune with the Realistic Likeness feat (and either Swift Kitsune Shapechanger or the Quick Change spell).

For an actual mechanical benefit, maybe you can make Betraying Blow work.


A character will have the ability to impersonate individuals, rather than generic members of a race, via shapeshifting. He will also be able to do this as a swift action.
The plan is to have him impersonate bad guys in the middle of a fight. The old "No, I am the real Jones" trope, except doing it to the bad guys.

What I envision is using bluff to make a distraction, much like using bluff to create a distraction for stealth. Then making a disguise check for the actual impersonation.
Any thoughts on how else this combat impersonation might work?

Any thoughts on the effects of a successful impersonation?

AwesomenessDog wrote:
The damage is just bonus damage, it rides onto the most recent hit and adopts that hit's damage type, which as a result of Boar Style, is precision damage. Bonus damage dice never are multiplied unless they say otherwise (Boar Style does not say otherwise), and because this is bonus damage, the strength damage is already applied as part of the basic hit.

Where do you get that the extra damage is precision damage?

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TxSam88 wrote:
DeathlessOne wrote:

Reminds me of a certain adventure path in PF2 that throws a CR4 monster at a level 2 group of players, in that monsters preferred environment, with little to no warning and nothing but a really good (critical) roll in order to avoid having one of the players pretty much disabled for the fight.
Not all encounters are meant to be beaten - some are meant to teach you when to run away

If you do not know that you are supposed to run at the beginning of the encounter at least one character has to die to let the others get away.

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TxSam88 wrote:

No, games should start at 1st level, however, that being said, you should advance very quickly the first few levels. Certainly 2nd level at the end of your first game, maybe even level 3 (taking time to level up to 2nd in the middle of game, after an encounter).

Mages are no more fragile than any other non-martial class at first level. Players just have to be conservative, and boring low level play is just code-speak for "I'm a power gamer" and want to do all the cool stuff.

The Minister of Approved Fun has spoken. No further opinions are welcomed.

Diego Rossi wrote:
Feral Combat Training allows you to use one very specific natural attack with Flurry of blows. For it to work when wildshaped in an earth elemental form you need to take IUS, Weapon Focus Slam and Feral Combat Training.

It is probably not worth it with an elemental's slam attack. You really want to flurry with a single high damage str X1.5 attack like a hippo's bite.

Trash talk them. It is a free action to tell 'Yo mama' jokes.

Check with your GM about the spirit magic spells. If they are treated the same way a cleric's domain spells or a sorcerers bloodline spells then you would not get them. Your reading is a valid one, just not the only valid reading.

Your feats are pretty well fixed
1) skill focus (know planes or survival)
3) eldritch heritage
5) storm lashed
7) ?
9) ?
11) improved eldritch heritage

Blood frenzy style is a no go as you do not have the aquatic subtype.

yonman17 wrote:
Can someone use an Immediate action during a full attack sequence. I.e. Have the immediate action trigger after the first attack but before the 2nd attack in a full attack?


You can explicitly use free actions in the middle of other actions. Otherwise you could not full attack with a bow. Drawing an arrow is a free action.
Immediate actions become swift actions when used on your turn. Swift actions are a special type of free action. Thus you can use am immediate (swift) action in the middle of an attack sequence.

The key is to make a high strength natural attack build. Transmutation should be your primary school. I would suggest taking a protector archetype familiar.

The safest bet is wizard. You can just stop preparing spells that are no longer appropriate to your current play style. At low levels you can be a support caster with a nasty surprise if someone goes for the "squishy." At higher levels you will have the spells like false life and heroism to boost your survivability and then you can switch to a more in your face type role.

While incorporeals can be a bit of a slog, making it so that the PCs cannot just do their normal schtick does make for interesting combat. If they have already cracked the code on facing incorporeals then use them more sparingly. But definitely keep them around to keep the PCs on their toes.

The next thing is make them part of an ensemble cast. Try playing the ready game when there is a vampire spawn or two to break up the dance.

Or the incorporeals are scouts for the rest of the bad guys. They just do quick hit and runs and then report back to the boss. The boss can now coordinate minions to ambush the PCs or properly buff.

As far as who goes first in a readied action stand-off the simple thing is keep the initiative order. The critter that has the higher initiative goes first. If it has been more than a couple of rounds of staring at each other then treat it like a new encounter and re-roll and people start flat footed.

You cannot take alternate racial traits, but you can take race traits.

Alternate racial traits require you to give up some racial ability that you almost certainly do not have.

Race traits are those half-feats called traits in the category of race. Since you count as an elf, a human, and a half-elf you can take a race trait with any of those races as a prerequisite.

For feats, classes, spells, and magic items you count as elf, human, and half-elf. You also count as all 3 for favored enemy and bane weapons.

Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
It really depends on what you want to do. Blaster is orc or draconic. Mind control is fey. Metamagic tricks is arcane.

Well i kind of wanna try a battlemage type character, one that despite being squishy as hell and no real armor proficiencies, decides that rather then throw a fireball at somebody, wants to take that same fireball and shove it in their face.

And now that i just said it im wondering if blood arcanist would even be the right archtype for that.

Orc bloodline is good for that too, with the inherent bonuses to strength. Transmutation spells for self buffing and you can really hurt things.

Or you could take the draconic bloodline and go dragon disciple. (And take eldritch heritage (orc) for the additional heinous strength bonus)

It really depends on what you want to do. Blaster is orc or draconic. Mind control is fey. Metamagic tricks is arcane.

About the only way an alchemist can provide spells for crafting is by using a wand to provide a spell. Beyond that is the way anyone could help: UMD a wand or scroll.

Initially I thought inquisitor. Investigator also seems like a good fit. So I was hoping the hivemind might have some other, less obvious, suggestions.

What would be a good class/archetype for an Abadaran insurance adjuster?

Taja the Barbarian wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
Krik.longleaf wrote:
Was it ever changed from the play test that Hybrid class characters mukti-classed with one of that hybrid's parent classes does not get to stack duplicate abilities? In particular, I'm referring to the Rogue and Slayer sneak attack progression.

The sneak attack class feature from the classes does not stack. That is you do not add up the levels and then apply them to one of the two classes to see how many dice you get.

But the damage does stack. You have 2 sets of additional dice that both are added to the damage. So if you have R dice from rogue and S dice from slayer you do normal damage +(R+S), assuming the attack qualifies for sneak attack.

Except that's not how 'non-stacking' bonuses works:

Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 11

Stacking: Stacking refers to the act of adding together bonuses or penalties that apply to one particular check or statistic. Generally speaking, most bonuses of the same type do not stack. Instead, only the highest bonus applies. Most penalties do stack, meaning that their values are added together. Penalties and bonuses generally stack with one another, meaning that the penalties might negate or exceed part or all of the bonuses, and vice versa.
Unless you have a version of Sneak Attack that specifically states that it stacks, you ONLY apply the greater 'bonus' to your damage roll.

But they are untyped bonuses from different sources, so they stack.

Basic rule of thumb is voluntary movement provokes and involuntary movement does not.

Krik.longleaf wrote:
Was it ever changed from the play test that Hybrid class characters mukti-classed with one of that hybrid's parent classes does not get to stack duplicate abilities? In particular, I'm referring to the Rogue and Slayer sneak attack progression.

The sneak attack class feature from the classes does not stack. That is you do not add up the levels and then apply them to one of the two classes to see how many dice you get.

But the damage does stack. You have 2 sets of additional dice that both are added to the damage. So if you have R dice from rogue and S dice from slayer you do normal damage +(R+S), assuming the attack qualifies for sneak attack.

You use special, non-standard, soup mix. Then use the cauldron with a special giant. Use of cauldron requires a dead giant.

Or you could use a method like in the story The Black Cauldron. All that would require is a live good giant to climb into the pot knowing that doing so will kill him.

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McDaygo wrote:

So I want to run a low magic game. No technology just pure medieval high fantasy setting. Things like +1-+5 will be flat bonus for superior craftsmanship which is an easy reskin.

Races and Monsters will be the same only I won’t introduce ones with crazy spell like abilities (minor ones I’ll reskin as supernatural abilities).

The issue I am having is having is when I introduce magic what way do I go about it:

Let the players pick any class from Core or APG

Option 1) Advise the players that yes you can pick say Cleric but until Magic is introduced, you will not have access to any spells or abilities that are magic in nature. This leads to the issue of do I not level my party at all till I introduce it so a character doesn’t go from no magic to say level 3 spells over night. Or level like normal with the understanding that gou will catch up in power and don’t make dumb calls.

Option 2) Have only Martial characters available at first but allow cross classing or re classing

This also brings up healing without magic. I know the heal skill can do wonders but I don’t want to have game stop cause “oh we are waiting 8 hours to heal again”

Play another system.

Magic is just too baked into the system for you to try to remove it.

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Senko wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:
Senko wrote:

Certain traps e.g. proximity go off when you enter a certain radius even if your flying. I don't think you can disarm these traps because to get to the "trigger" you have to enter the "proximity" and thus trigger it.

False, Any and all traps can be disarmed by a Disable Device check. it doesn't matter if you enter the proximity to disable it or not. No description on how it is done is needed. Hand wave it or whatever. If there is a trap and it has a Disarm DC, then it can be disarmed regardless of how it is triggered.
My point is this is when the rogues ranged legerdomain comes into its own as they can disarm the trap from a distance.

When do rogues get ranged legerdemain?

Reskin and apply templates to existing critters. Sheep with venomous fangs, a swarm of flesh eating bunnies, wolves that can cause sonic damage with their howls.

Find out if the characters have any phobias and use twisted versions of those.
Doing the same with the players can be done, but needs a lot more care. Actually triggering your players would be a bad thing.

If this is your first effort running a campaign I highly recommend a default answer of 'no'. Get a good handle on the rules and their interactions before allowing crazy corner cases. Give yourself plenty of time to consider the implications of what strange things your players ask for before saying yes.
Another thing is not to be afraid to retcon things if you allowed something unbalancing into your game. Tell your players that this is a possibility when they ask for weird things or want esoteric combinations.

These things become especially important if you like to use the 'rule of cool'.

Down time is for enjoying all the loot you acquired adventuring. So most of that time is spent enriching the bars and brothels.

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You might want to look at the blossoming light archetype for cleric.
No armor proficiencies, but you get 5+ cha mod channels to start and gain one more at each even level.
You also get to harm a wide variety of enemies with channel: undead, chaotic evil outsiders, worshippers of chaotic evil deities, critters with light sensitivity, and critters with light vulnerability.

Pindoodly Wandfondler:

"A keen fashion sense, rapier wit, and world class culinary skills are just three of the benefits I bring to any adventuring party."

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