thorin001's page

Go kitsune vigilante.with the realistic likeness feat and the seamless shapechanger social talent.
I would also suggest taking either 2 levels of bard or cavalier with order of the songbird for versetile performance (act). Your disguise and bluff checks will be insane.

Fortune is not as good as it looks. Once per round he can roll twice and take the better result. And the choice has to be made before the dice are rolled.

Evil Eye is mind affecting, so there are a lot of targets you cannot use it on. But it is a great general purpose debuff.

Healing gets a bad rap. The healing provided is relatively minor, but how many parties would turn their noses up at a wand of CLW with 5 charges per day? Also you can use it to hurt undead. Lastly it is great for healing NPCs that you do not want to waste resources on.

The ancestor patron is very good for a buffing witch.

What role will you be filling in the party?

Levels wouldn't stack in any way. Neither class mentions stacking with similar abilities.

But the AC bonuses would stack since one is base on Cha and the other Wis. You would use the class levels independently to determine what increases to AC you would get.

Actually, it is needed because flurry of blows removes the 1.5 STR for attacks in the flurry.

Not if you go unchained.

For added thematic fun use DRAGON STYLE and DRAGON FEROCITY to get that 1.5 STR bonus back.

No need as dragon bites come standard with 1.5 str to damage. (Pg 90 of the Bestiary)

zimmerwald1915 wrote:

I am ideologically committed to player character-non-player character transparency, and PF1 gives me that.

Interesting, care to extrapolate on why such a commitment?

In PF2 PCs and NPCs work on different rules. For example a 12th level NPC fighter does 3d8 damage without having a magic weapon. Or a bog standard NPC orc has a racial ability that a PC orc cannot have.

What I was contemplating was multiclassing with psychic. Psychic casters do not have verbal or somatic components. Nor material components for the most part.

I would be inclined to say it is not merely based on being unable to speak or other factors. The base shifter class mentions being unable to speak (using only animal sounds), but does not go into the same detail of the oozemorph's restrictions on casting.

As for whether something like Natural Spell would allow casting... I will leave that to others.

SLAs are not prohibited, so that heavily implies that it is not some mystic inability to use magic

When in ooze form it says cast spells. Is this a mystic ban on casting or is it simply a result of not being able to use verbal, somatic, and material components?

Fluidic Body (Su): An oozemorph’s base form is not that of her race but rather that of a protoplasmic blob that has the same volume and weight. An oozemorph treats her creature type as both ooze and her base creature type from her race for the purposes of effects targeting creatures by type (such as bane weapons and a ranger’s favored enemy). In this form, the oozemorph is immune to critical hits and precision damage and can’t be flanked. However, she has no magic item slots and she cannot benefit from armor; cast spells; hold objects; speak; or use any magic item that requires activation, is held, or is worn on the body.

So if a character had feats or class abilities to remove those casting components could the character cast spells while in ooze form?

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

It's actually two feats. You also need weapon focus bite.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Two feats is not worth one bite attack to me.

Why not? It means that you can make a full attack with a weapon that gets extra reach and 1.5 str to damage. ALL of your flurry attacks can be with the bite.

Spring attack lets you move-attack-move, so that covers some of what is wanted. Letting her kick off the bad guy and back to solid ground with an acrobatics check as part of the spring attack should cover most of the rest of it.
Pathfinder just does not handle sharing squares or riding the bad guys.

Interesting advice Thorin. I also appreciate. Honestly part of it is more so if it would be wise for it to have a resource that is more so useful in BP than as an adventuring resource.

If you give them coins or magic items it will be used as an adventuring resource. If you want it to be BP you will have to give it a BP value, not a GP value. Players will almost never convert GP to BP, but the reverse is not true.

Treasure is more of an art than a science.
A dragon could easily be a dozen miles from its lair, so tracking it could be a real challenge. As for what is in the lair it could be very sparse; the dragon could have been forced to abandon its hoarde which is why it is where it is now.

My reccomendation for Kingmaker is to audit your characters' wealth every level and compare that with the wealth by level chart. That way you can adjust the stuff found.

Sounds like you need a better GM. Knocking the bad guys down reliably is hardly game breaking.

Do not adjust the CR for the eidolon. As has been mentioned the eidolon is part of the character.

For a 6 person party the easy adjustment is to just put the "advanced" template on everything. So for a 5 person party you could put a "half-advanced" template on everything, +2 to all stats and +1 nat armor.

What role do you wish to play? Clerics can be healers, melee beat-sticks, party buffers, or summoners. All have different stat, feat, and domain requirements.

Druid, shifter, and barbarian.
Past 5th level or so most barbarians might as well be wearing loin cloths for all the difference their armor makes.

@thorin001- You could but the Stormshape seems the strongest feature of the Pr C.

Kikaio wrote:

First would be an Oracle with the Ascetic mystery, since it gives you both the levels in Spellcasting needed to become a Storm Kindler and the unarmed strike damage of a Monk with the same level as your Oracle level (1d10 if you go 10 Monk/10 Storm Kindler), to increase the damage of your Storm Shape without any multiclassing required

That seems like an excellent idea to me.

I suggest taking a 7th level of Oracle before going into the Pr C. You get an extra 10' of movement with Fleet and meet the minimum level for taking Oracular Spellstrike and you get a Revelation at level 7. You can't Spellstrike while in Storm Shape but it is an excellent effect.

Another idea would be to gain entry via the Nature Fang Druid archetype, which trades away nearly all of the Druid class features for a bunch of features from the Slayer that help you in combat. Nature Fang does not focus on unarmed strikes, but the archetype will work with them.

It is definitely the strongest direct combat ability of the class. And if you want to build for it that is certainly viable. But if other aspects of the class are what you want out of it then devoting resources just to not "waste" a class feature can be counterproductive.

Or you could ignore the stormshape and build around the other weather related abilities.

1) 5th level seems more appropriate as cone of cold is very similar.
2) I would change the weapon to a focus. I would also have the DR overcome based on the properties of the weapon, so a magic weapon overcomes DR magic, a cold iron weaopn overcomes DR cold iron, and so on.

Murky water grants concealment or total concealment. Neither of these interact with FoM in any way. FoM Would allow uninhibited movement through the water, but would not allow a bow and arrow to function underwater as the arrow loses the effects of FoM as soon as it leaves the bow.

You ruled correctly.

Is there a specific objective for this idea? In my limited experience with item crafting, a free formula each level will almost certainly be more than I will actually use if I have enough foresight to plan ahead a bit, as the major limitation on crafting is actually the amount of downtime the campaign* allows.

I suspect my Oracle from Wrath of the Righteous could count the number of items she actually crafted over maybe 10 levels on the fingers of one or maybe two hands..

*My group plays Adventure Paths, so it might be that other campaigns have more downtime than I tend to see (My Bloodrager literally took a trainer with her on a boat trip to retrain a feat in Return of the Runelords as I didn't see her getting a solid week of downtime any other way).

This will be for King Maker, so there will be copious down time. This is mostly to keep people from making every item under the sun. It also allows for some non-gold rewards.

I also have more involved rules for making your own formulae.

I assume you are trying to limit PCs from making just anything in the vast lists of magic items. Is this just for wondrous items, or also for weapons and armor?

Since PF1e items are "mostly" balanced by price, a flat 1% price is probably good enough. Pricing by caster level x some gp amount is another method, but will have some oddities as CL is not really linked to pricing as consistently.

Just use wizard spell scribing prices if you are requiring these for potions, wands, and the like. That is an interesting mechanic that could allow wizards to make healing potions or clerics doing potions of mage armor.

It would be for everything except potions, scrolls, and wands. Characters get free formulae every level for each crafting feat they have, similar to how wizards get free spells every level.

Sorry, accidentally posted in wrong forum.

I am trying out a formula system for magic items similar to what PF2 does. So to make a magic item you need the apropriate feat and the formula. I want characters to buy new formulae just like wizards can buy new spells for their spellbooks.

What is a fair pricing scheme for such formulae? My first thought is 1% of the sale price of the item.

I am trying out a formula system for magic items similar to what PF2 does. So to make a magic item you need the apropriate feat and the formula. I want characters to buy new formulae just like wizards can buy new spells for their spellbooks.

What is a fair pricing scheme for such formulae? My first thought is 1% of the sale price of the item.

so the DC will go up after every bite??

The DC goes up for every dose of poison in your system. You only increase the dosage on a failed save of a new application (bite).

Yep, i was searching a way to rise my caster lvl for my spells. but has already calmed down about it

Don't gorget about power components for your spells.

You do not have a dedicated healer or trapsmith. Is the druid going for blaster caster, summoner, or combat monster? If the druid is going for either of the latter 2 choices you do not really need another frontline character.

Slayer will let you be a melee character and at 2nd level you can acquire trap finding via a slayer talent.

If you have the front line well stocked you could be a multiclass bard (dwarven scholar)/brawler. You can use brawler to gain combat feats and use bard song to share them with the rest of the party. And you can have a bunch of spells be healing/status removal.

No. Swift actions are very powerful, which is why the rules don't let you make substitutions like this.

But a paladin explicitly can use lay hands as a standard action, unlike the vast majority of other swift actions. In fact the default is a standard action with the special exception of self use being a swift action.

A paladin can lay hands on themselves as a swift action and on others as a standard action. Can he lay hands on himself as a standard acton?

Reasons to do so would be to smite and lay hands in the same round or even to lay hands twice.

If you want something to boost a large number of low level minions a skald is actually better than a battle herald. Ragesong boosts both STR and CON so gives your minions more HP. The skald can also grant any and all rages powers they have. You can take the feat extra rage power to gain more of them. Skalds get access to the 3rd level spell Flexible Fury that allows you to swap out rage powers, giving you the ability to tailor your rage powers to the situation.

Skald also continues to advance the spell casting and other class features of the skald. This gives you access to more powerful spells. Spell Kenning gives you access to spells from the Bard, Cleric or Sorcerer/wizard list. Clerics get a lot defensive spells including communal versions of some of those spells. An 8th level skald could give 8 minions 20 points of fire resistance by using a 3rd level spell to cast communal resist energy.

You cannot share rage powers not gained through the extra rage power feat. It is GM discression wheter or not you can share the powers gained via the flexible fury spell.

"If the skald has rage powers from another source, he (but not his allies) can use those rage powers during an inspired rage."

I just ended masterizing a level 21 druid and it is clearly overpowered, so much that it outclass the paladin figthing demons !

My player character took quick wild shape and heavy armor as feat and he bougth himself a dragonscale full plate+5, a +5 shield, and so much more objects for around 550.000gp of value (the whole campaign value of goods).

With the help of several high levels spells he ended up with a AC67, 5 attacks with a spinosaurus jump and an holy smite and usualy deal around 150hp on the first round and 100hp without jump.

He started of course with a 18 strentgh and 8 charisma (he was no friend of animals).

All the party has the same amount of gold for their equipment, but i struggle to stop the druid, i needed to invent new monsters that only him was able to figth.

You do realize that the armor and shield go away when you wildshape. Unless you have the +3 wild enhancement. And a huge critter has a lousy touch AC, so guns and spells will do a number on the druid.

We ... have a contest?

The onyx salesmen want you to think so.

TxSam88 wrote:

I assume I have the feats that negate most of those penalties and just look at potential damage on a hit (basically assume I hit)

Also, a well built fighter archer will out pace the damage of a well built melee fighter, simply due to not having to move, but also having more iterative attacks due to many shot and rapid shot.

Assuming that that's true, which I'm not arguing, aside from play style what incentive does anyone have to build a melee fighter?

Somebody has to stand in front and keep the bad guys off of the squishies.

Or build for a mounted archer

15’ becomes the reach … your reach increases but your weapons reach does not.

Wrong You are now a large creature with a large weapon. Your reach is 20', pg 141 of the CRB.

I would go with paladin/ranger. Maybe with an oath against undead for the paladin. Favored enemy (undead) and smite will make short work of vampires and their spawn.

The life oracle with the pei zen practitioner archetype looks solid, but I would go for human or half elf for the extra spells from the favored class bonus. The extra healing is nice but I would rather have more spells known for a spontaneous caster. Take the Blackened Curse to get some fire based combat spells.

By 12th level you can take care of most healing just from your mystery and archetype. Your curse gives you some basic combat spells, so you can take whatever support spells you want.

The main reason for gnome is the bonus to con. You can do it with human if you take the dual talent alternate race trait. So you would get a +2 to cha and con and get the extra spells known FCB. But you give up the human extra skill points and feat.

Normally I see people use the FCB for extra HP as life oracles tend to be HP batteries.

The ultimate healer is a gnome life oracle.
As a gnome you take the alternate racial trait vivacious and the fey foundling feat. This means that you get a lot more from being healed than everyone else. To make things even more extreme take the planar infusion (positive energy plane) feat.

As an oracle you take the life mystery and the pei zin practitioner archetype. You will be able to lay hands on yourself as a swift action. You take the revelations that allow you to channel energy and transfer damage from your allies to yourself. You get all the cure spells for free and can take whatever other oracle spells you think will be most beneficial.

If you haven't already, you may want to look at the updated systems from Ultimate Campaign for kingdom building and mass combat. The systems in Ultimate Campaign provide better balance and more options than the systems in the PF1 Kingmaker AP.

Alternately, for a more narrative style of play, you could run battles as a heist from Ultimate Intrigue. Instead of focusing on the armies, the focus is on the leaders (the PCs) overcoming (or not) the critical challenges that swing the battle one way or the other. Many adventures/APs use this method rather than actual mass combat rules; you could also "borrow" the PF2 victory points to use in the heist structure.

That was my other option. But I also want to have an option available if my players want to be more active in controlling armies.

thorin001 wrote:

I will be running Kingmaker and am dissatisfied with the current mass combat rules...

you are not alone... Ult Cmpgn, Mass Combat rulez

Got those. Still not impressed.

I will be running Kingmaker and am dissatisfied with the current mass combat rules. One of the modifications I am considering is treating the army like a Starcraft spaceship. Multiple positions that can make decisions and rolls that affect the army.

Ideally there would be at least 4 such positions, aside from the commander.
Currently I am thinking of an operations officer that can grant rerolls and a supply officer that can grant minor healing to units. Any thoughts on other positions and what rolls they would make to gain the benefits are greatly appreciated.

thorin001 wrote:

Why maneuver master? All you get is the ability to perform 1 combat maneuver at -2 as part of a full attack.

Mostly because flurry doesn't play well with natural attacks as people have noted. Another option I was thinking was Sensei to get Wis to attacks with maneuvers and then natural attacks either by Feral Training or later through Weapon Shift with a monk weapon.

One potential avenue for Man. Master is a pounce build that either starts with the extra maneuver as a trip so the attacks are potentially at +4 vs prone and ends with a grab off an attack, or a pounce that has the trip on a bite and ends with a bullrush so the enemy is prone and hopefully out of range at the start of its turn.

With FCT you chose a critter with a single massive attack, like a hippo, and flurry with that you can do truly heinous amounts of damage. Especially if you use dragon style.

With sensei you have to take 2 levels of monk.

Why maneuver master? All you get is the ability to perform 1 combat maneuver at -2 as part of a full attack. If you are trying to be a grapple monster that can work, but all of your grapple checks from the grab ability are also at -2 if you take the extra combat maneuver.

If you want to keep them on the rails then have some patrols already along the river looking for such escapees. Then make it obvious that some of them are warning others further down the river. Some noisy reinforcements could get them to run away in the desired direction.

No need to replace it with anything. If you don't want to run it don't.
If you are worried about them missing out on xp is suggest you dispense with xp and go with milestone leveling.

Or you could adjust your role from primary damage dealer to support. Bard spells are good for that. You are also a good knowledge monkey as well as trapsmith.

If the comparison is when resting, then the Monk who needs to take a full round action to pull out a potion and quaff it to get Mage Armor is way better off than the guy in plate mail who needs 4 minutes with someone else helping him to get his armor on. Nobody takes the Endurance feat, it's a bad feat, because the risk of being ambushed while asleep is not worth...

A full plate dude can get dressed in a round with a potion of Serren's swift girding.

Most of my characters who wear armor heavier than light just spend the gold to have a set of chain shirt jammies.