Let's talk about some niche, unexpected, weird, or fun builds.


Advice

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PossibleCabbage wrote:
Seisho wrote:
I just noticed that the limitation for the damage from Rage is specifically the Agile trait - so if you eshew class dc based skills you are perfectly fine making a dex based rager of any kind
Specifically this is of benefit to: rapier barbs, spiked chain barbs, elven curve blade barbs, whip barbs, and my personal favorite- nunchaku barbs.

Now I want to make a noble lady who would have a very refined and elegant fighting style if she didn't have such a nasty temper. Likely take the Rogue dedication.

The demoralize action has revolutionized character building for me. Every character can be charismatic if I want them to be...


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Arachnofiend wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Seisho wrote:
I just noticed that the limitation for the damage from Rage is specifically the Agile trait - so if you eshew class dc based skills you are perfectly fine making a dex based rager of any kind
Specifically this is of benefit to: rapier barbs, spiked chain barbs, elven curve blade barbs, whip barbs, and my personal favorite- nunchaku barbs.

Now I want to make a noble lady who would have a very refined and elegant fighting style if she didn't have such a nasty temper. Likely take the Rogue dedication.

The demoralize action has revolutionized character building for me. Every character can be charismatic if I want them to be...

nah, you don't go rogue.

you go duelist fighter (1 handed rapier/open hand) with the usual duelist stuff for her "proper" style (riposte and etc)

next you add barbarian for when you flip her switch. I'm thinking red dragon barb because she's feisty and fiery but MORE importantly because of the anathema of "not letting a personal insult fly" (obviously with the instinct feat as well, and if there's space raging intimidation is not bad)

and then you get her combat grab, shatter defenses, and advantageous assault (you can delay grabbing this one, if you get it at all, since the damage scales with weapon dices either way).

what you get is this:

a proper noble lady fighting with an elegant style, that suddenly slaps you in the face (snagging attack), then either grabs you by the collar (combat grab) with her free hand and starts stabbing you maniacally (advantageous assault), or she starts slapping you with her rapier scaring the bejesus out of you so much that you simply can't stop shaking (shatter defenses) and when she's REALLY angry, her temper is so hot that even her weapon catches fire.

mechanically wise, the above build seems terrible, since it's overloaded in press attacks and 6th level feats... but it sounds fun!

if you want to go more serious on this, snagging attack opener with shatter defenses press, and probably you're next+dread striker rogue instead of dragon barb, will function MUCH better... but where's the fire? where's the PASSION?!


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I think I'd prefer the Barbarian side to be her Main Thing. The dragon instinct is a great idea though, far more interesting than the standard Fury I had thought of at first - I think I'd actually go with a blue dragon, and have her backstory involve being "blessed" at birth to be a ferocious and commanding leader after her parents leveraged a grievous insult against an Ancient Blue Dragon (think a Sleeping Beauty scenario).


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More of a stupid concept then a powerful one. Pick either a Arcane, Occult, or Primal spell casting class (for the basic concept it does not matter which specific class, but could affect options later.) Next, get up to Level 5 spell casting. Then get the Mariner Curse spell. (That’s right were playing with Sickened condition, which among other things, prevents the sufferer from willingly ingesting anything. And were using Mariner Curse because on a fail, the sickened condition can only be cured by magic, something which most people do not have access to.) And for the basic build that’s it.

Now, you may be saying to yourself, that’s not much of a build, and you would be right. The key to this build is the goal and Roleplaying. You adventure not for gold or glory, but to visit every pub, tavern and watering hole in the land, in an effort to defeat the monster known as alcoholism, and save those caught in it clutches with your sickening saving touch. Whenever you see a patron grow green to gills, emptying the vile substance from his stomach, knowing they will not want to touch it again, your heart fills with joy, doubly so if they were sailors.

Now you got basic options to achieve this, but it may not always be smooth sailing. Those which you are helping, and those peddling the drinks may give you some trouble, among others. Being able to hide your casting can be helpful, the Conceal Spell and Silent spell feat, and the Melodious Spell feat, can be helpful in achieving this effect. You may even be able to in list the help of a Familiar to deliver the spell for you. Which does bring about the next problem you may face= Your spell needs to go over there, and your all the way over here. The Reach Spell feat can be your answer, in situations where you may not wish to get close.

Of course everything may not go as planned, and your going to have to prepare for that. Having a Phantom Steed on standby not only can allow you to make a quick exit, but also get you to your next destination much sooner. Invisibility can get you out of a jam, the 4th level version even lets you use your Curse Spell and still remain unseen, very helpful to avoid trouble. If you still can’t shake your pursuers, a good old Dimension Door can be your answer.

And, while you may be a magic man/women, your more then just the sum of your spells. As hinted to, the Stealth skill can open up even more possibilities in your line of work, striking a would-be-drinker from the shadows with you helping Curse before there lips touch the glass, and to hide in the ensuing chase. What may even more important is your ability in Deception, as you may have to visit an establishment more then once, with each time arousing greater suspicion if you look the same, and as a way to re-enter if your work is ever found out. Plus, you may have to dabble in a lie or two, if you are question.

Of course make this your own, and, as always, sorry for the long post and thanks for reading.


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As a skill build:

Universal theory (legendary Arcane) + natural remedies (trained nature) allows you to treat wounds using your Legendary Arcane (Int) skill instead of Medicine (wis)

Meaning you can easily make a wizard "doctor"


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Siro wrote:

More of a stupid concept then a powerful one. Pick either a Arcane, Occult, or Primal spell casting class (for the basic concept it does not matter which specific class, but could affect options later.) Next, get up to Level 5 spell casting. Then get the Mariner Curse spell. (That’s right were playing with Sickened condition, which among other things, prevents the sufferer from willingly ingesting anything. And were using Mariner Curse because on a fail, the sickened condition can only be cured by magic, something which most people do not have access to.) And for the basic build that’s it.

Now, you may be saying to yourself, that’s not much of a build, and you would be right. The key to this build is the goal and Roleplaying. You adventure not for gold or glory, but to visit every pub, tavern and watering hole in the land, in an effort to defeat the monster known as alcoholism, and save those caught in it clutches with your sickening saving touch. Whenever you see a patron grow green to gills, emptying the vile substance from his stomach, knowing they will not want to touch it again, your heart fills with joy, doubly so if they were sailors.

Now you got basic options to achieve this, but it may not always be smooth sailing. Those which you are helping, and those peddling the drinks may give you some trouble, among others. Being able to hide your casting can be helpful, the Conceal Spell and Silent spell feat, and the Melodious Spell feat, can be helpful in achieving this effect. You may even be able to in list the help of a Familiar to deliver the spell for you. Which does bring about the next problem you may face= Your spell needs to go over there, and your all the way over here. The Reach Spell feat can be your answer, in situations where you may not wish to get close.

Of course everything may not go as planned, and your going to have to prepare for that. Having a Phantom Steed on standby not only can allow you to make a quick exit, but also get you to your next destination much sooner....

I just realized ingesting anything includes food... So that spell seems like an awful death sentence.


Yup, not intended to be played as a LG character to say the least. And what’s worse is, the victim would not be able to willingly drink anything, including water, so they would actually die of thirst 1st. Build just takes advantage that you need to be able to drink, in order to be able to drink.

Though the person under Mariner Curse can have food and drink forced down there throat, so they are not completely screwed, though it would be very unpleasant. ( without any help, it would be a slow death sentence, as you mentioned.)


Siro wrote:

Yup, not intended to be played as a LG character to say the least. And what’s worse is, the victim would not be able to willingly drink anything, including water, so they would actually die of thirst 1st. Build just takes advantage that you need to be able to drink, in order to be able to drink.

Though the person under Mariner Curse can have food and drink forced down there throat, so they are not completely screwed, though it would be very unpleasant. ( without any help, it would be a slow death sentence, as you mentioned.)

Is that supported by the rules? Because otherwise casting this spell on a PC who can't get the curse lifted within a day or two is a death sentence. I guess it does say willingly...

I imagine having to undergo that to stay alive would leave a PC Fatigued at the very least. What a nasty curse.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Siro wrote:

Yup, not intended to be played as a LG character to say the least. And what’s worse is, the victim would not be able to willingly drink anything, including water, so they would actually die of thirst 1st. Build just takes advantage that you need to be able to drink, in order to be able to drink.

Though the person under Mariner Curse can have food and drink forced down there throat, so they are not completely screwed, though it would be very unpleasant. ( without any help, it would be a slow death sentence, as you mentioned.)

Is that supported by the rules? Because otherwise casting this spell on a PC who can't get the curse lifted within a day or two is a death sentence. I guess it does say willingly...

I imagine having to undergo that to stay alive would leave a PC Fatigued at the very least. What a nasty curse.

There is a bit of grey area, but because it specifically states ‘Willingly’ it would lead me to believe a PC could still be the unwilling participant of a forced dinner. (Having it forced down would probably fall in line, along with certain mind control effects. Being someone personally whom has problems with ingesting food because of a medical condition, it sucks when you got to force yourself to eat and your body is telling you no food.)

Luckily for PC’s, it’s a 5th level spell effect, so they should have options by the time it shows up. Even if no one in the party can remove the curse, they should be able to scrape together the funds to hire a spellcaster whom can. The only thing would be getting said PC to a city, where, with a bit of investigation, they would most likely find someone willing to do it. (Remember, spellcasting services in PF2 are considered Uncommon)


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Captain Morgan wrote:
Siro wrote:

Yup, not intended to be played as a LG character to say the least. And what’s worse is, the victim would not be able to willingly drink anything, including water, so they would actually die of thirst 1st. Build just takes advantage that you need to be able to drink, in order to be able to drink.

Though the person under Mariner Curse can have food and drink forced down there throat, so they are not completely screwed, though it would be very unpleasant. ( without any help, it would be a slow death sentence, as you mentioned.)

Is that supported by the rules? Because otherwise casting this spell on a PC who can't get the curse lifted within a day or two is a death sentence. I guess it does say willingly...

I imagine having to undergo that to stay alive would leave a PC Fatigued at the very least. What a nasty curse.

Sickened condition is no joke. Had a player die in the playtest because he got sickened and poisoned, and couldn't drink a potion to save himself from the poison. The look on his face when he realized he was carrying the entire party's stash of healing potions and none of it was going to save him was priceless...


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Not sure if it's stupid or functional but I kind of want to do something with an alchemical crossbow on an Alchemist. Maybe MC ranger for crossbow ace? Not really sure.


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Squiggit wrote:
Not sure if it's stupid or functional but I kind of want to do something with an alchemical crossbow on an Alchemist. Maybe MC ranger for crossbow ace? Not really sure.

It really depends if you want to mostly rely on the alchemical crossbow. If you do, you're better off with going Ranger MC Alchemist, as you dont particularly need better versions of bombs (alchemical crossbow only takes lessers bombs) and ranger gets better proficiency, feats (hell, quite a few alchemist feats are just downgraded ranger feats) and generally damage due to hunters edge (I'd take precision for xbow usage)


Where/what is the Alchemical Crossbow?


Fall of plaguestone


The alchemical crossbow is listed as uncommon so you shouldn't expect to be able to have it.


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Use an Unseen Servant spell to carry and open inhaled poison containers (10' cube that lasts 1 minute when opened) crafted by an alchemist during daily preparations. This one really just requires cooperation between an alchemist and an arcane or occult caster, but you can do it via multiclassing.


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Xenocrat wrote:
Use an Unseen Servant spell to carry and open inhaled poison containers (10' cube that lasts 1 minute when opened) crafted by an alchemist during daily preparations. This one really just requires cooperation between an alchemist and an arcane or occult caster, but you can do it via multiclassing.

or you can simply throw the vial. Nothing says that you can't unleash inhaled poisons with whatever method you choose to.


shroudb wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Use an Unseen Servant spell to carry and open inhaled poison containers (10' cube that lasts 1 minute when opened) crafted by an alchemist during daily preparations. This one really just requires cooperation between an alchemist and an arcane or occult caster, but you can do it via multiclassing.
or you can simply throw the vial. Nothing says that you can't unleash inhaled poisons with whatever method you choose to.

You can't throw it, because it doesn't say you can, it's an interact action to "release it," and what are the rules for throwing a poison "container" (which is not a bomb) and ensuring it breaks open in the desired intersection?

There are only three of them and they're all high level, I imagine Paizo thought they'd be used as components of traps.


Xenocrat wrote:
shroudb wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Use an Unseen Servant spell to carry and open inhaled poison containers (10' cube that lasts 1 minute when opened) crafted by an alchemist during daily preparations. This one really just requires cooperation between an alchemist and an arcane or occult caster, but you can do it via multiclassing.
or you can simply throw the vial. Nothing says that you can't unleash inhaled poisons with whatever method you choose to.

You can't throw it, because it doesn't say you can, it's an interact action to "release it," and what are the rules for throwing a poison "container" (which is not a bomb) and ensuring it breaks open in the desired intersection?

There are only three of them and they're all high level, I imagine Paizo thought they'd be used as components of traps.

ofc you can. the only thing the rules say is that:

"it's interact to unlease the gas" sure.

that doesn't mean that you need to open it right in your face.

to be exact, the only thing the rules say is that:
"An inhaled poison is activated by unleashing
it from its container."

HOW you unlease it from the container is your own business, but the action cost for doing so is an interact action.

it can be an interact action to throw a breakable vial containing it.

p.s.
the rules for throwing a tiny container are the rules of throwing ANY tiny item.

or do you imply that in pathfinder you can't throw items?


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Can we spring load the lid of the poison box, so the lid automatically opens when you dismiss the unseen servant?


shroudb wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
shroudb wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Use an Unseen Servant spell to carry and open inhaled poison containers (10' cube that lasts 1 minute when opened) crafted by an alchemist during daily preparations. This one really just requires cooperation between an alchemist and an arcane or occult caster, but you can do it via multiclassing.
or you can simply throw the vial. Nothing says that you can't unleash inhaled poisons with whatever method you choose to.

You can't throw it, because it doesn't say you can, it's an interact action to "release it," and what are the rules for throwing a poison "container" (which is not a bomb) and ensuring it breaks open in the desired intersection?

There are only three of them and they're all high level, I imagine Paizo thought they'd be used as components of traps.

ofc you can. the only thing the rules say is that:

"it's interact to unlease the gas" sure.

that doesn't mean that you need to open it right in your face.

to be exact, the only thing the rules say is that:
"An inhaled poison is activated by unleashing
it from its container."

HOW you unlease it from the container is your own business, but the action cost for doing so is an interact action.

it can be an interact action to throw a breakable vial containing it.

p.s.
the rules for throwing a tiny container are the rules of throwing ANY tiny item.

or do you imply that in pathfinder you can't throw items?

Not with mechanical effect, you can’t. Unless it’s a bomb, ranged weapon, improvised weapon, or something else with a rule.

You also can’t throw a vial to apply a contact poison.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
shroudb wrote:
or do you imply that in pathfinder you can't throw items?

With the way the rules are written, that kind of thinking is certainly going to be more common in Pathfinder 2E.

The developers seem to be supporting the notion of "no rules, not happening" mind set with 2E as well.


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I’m glad to see Monk/Druid is still a thing. I shall have to make a study when I pick up my book tomorrow as to exactly how viable.

(BTW, apologies to everyone who tried to message me in 2017, this is the first time I’ve logged on in like 2.5 years).


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Ravingdork wrote:
shroudb wrote:
or do you imply that in pathfinder you can't throw items?

With the way the rules are written, that kind of thinking is certainly going to be more common in Pathfinder 2E.

The developers seem to be supporting the notion of "no rules, not happening" mind set with 2E as well.

Not sure that's really an accurate comparison. Familiars were intentionally designed to not fight, which is a little different than a rule not being codified. If anything it's the opposite.

Plus "the rules don't allow this so it's GM fiat if it works" isn't really a thing new to PF2 anyways.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
swoosh wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
shroudb wrote:
or do you imply that in pathfinder you can't throw items?

With the way the rules are written, that kind of thinking is certainly going to be more common in Pathfinder 2E.

The developers seem to be supporting the notion of "no rules, not happening" mind set with 2E as well.

Not sure that's really an accurate comparison. Familiars were intentionally designed to not fight, which is a little different than a rule not being codified. If anything it's the opposite.

Plus "the rules don't allow this so it's GM fiat if it works" isn't really a thing new to PF2 anyways.

Just seems seriously odd to me that my cat couldn't kill a mouse even if he tried.


Many things might be odd to RD, but the fundamental distinction between "explicitly intentionally designed in way RD doesn't like" and "reasonable innovation/ruling in case not addressed by rules" is clear to anybody.

Paizo's design decision on Familiars has nothing to do with "no rules, not happening" stance. They didn't grant Familiars a built in attack method, but if you want to, you can give them one, just as you can give a PC a bite attack. The complaint is they don't have an attack like they did in 1E, but having an attack does not make the game more "no rules, no problem" it's just giving the rule you want.

If anything, I think Paizo is even more emphasizing GM discretion and improvisation, using skills for non-core effects etc, if there is check needed the math is easy to improvise on the spot etc. But a rules system falls apart if it's RAW that every rule can actually be superseded by random opinions. Paizo assumes the reason people want a formalized ruleset is they plan on following it for the most part, although they fully support houseruling.

Grand Lodge

I agree with Ravingdork, that seems like a huge disconnect from how we've utilized familiars in the past.

Are familiars not supposed to be able to deliver bad touch spells to enemies now?


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Syries wrote:

I agree with Ravingdork, that seems like a huge disconnect from how we've utilized familiars in the past.

Are familiars not supposed to be able to deliver bad touch spells to enemies now?

<COUGH>

A Core Familiar ability option is "Spell Delivery" which does exactly what you are complaining about.
What people were discussing was Familiar's mundane melee attacks, which 2E doesn't require for Spell Delivery.

Grand Lodge

Quandary wrote:
Syries wrote:

I agree with Ravingdork, that seems like a huge disconnect from how we've utilized familiars in the past.

Are familiars not supposed to be able to deliver bad touch spells to enemies now?

<COUGH>

A Core Familiar ability option is "Spell Delivery" which does exactly what you are complaining about.
What people were discussing was Familiar's mundane melee attacks, which 2E doesn't require for Spell Delivery.

Now granted, I haven't taken a thorough look through the familiar details but from a cursory glace, it appears that familiars don't actually have a means of actually making an attack roll to deliver the spell. I could easily be wrong but I didn't see that when I looked up familiar rules.


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Syries wrote:


Now granted, I haven't taken a thorough look through the familiar details but from a cursory glace, it appears that familiars don't actually have a means of actually making an attack roll to deliver the spell. I could easily be wrong but I didn't see that when I looked up familiar rules.

It's in the "Modifiers and AC" section on p. 217. They use the master's level as their modifier for attack rolls.


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Syries wrote:
Quandary wrote:
Syries wrote:

I agree with Ravingdork, that seems like a huge disconnect from how we've utilized familiars in the past.

Are familiars not supposed to be able to deliver bad touch spells to enemies now?

<COUGH>

A Core Familiar ability option is "Spell Delivery" which does exactly what you are complaining about.
What people were discussing was Familiar's mundane melee attacks, which 2E doesn't require for Spell Delivery.
Now granted, I haven't taken a thorough look through the familiar details but from a cursory glace, it appears that familiars don't actually have a means of actually making an attack roll to deliver the spell. I could easily be wrong but I didn't see that when I looked up familiar rules.

"If it attempts an attack roll or other skill check, it uses your level as its modifier."

However, I don't believe the familiar makes the attack for a touch spell. I believe the caster rolls a spell attack as normal. For one, touch spells explicitly say if they require a roll or a save, and they use your casting ability, not your dex. Secondly, their attack bonus being their level would be useless.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Last sentence under "Modifiers and AC":

"If it attempts an attack roll or other skill check, it uses your level as its modifier. It doesn't have or use its own ability modifiers and can never benefit from item bonuses."

So it can't do a physical attack (since it has no defined damage type or damage die) but it can attempt any attack needed to cast a spell.


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Ravingdork wrote:
Just seems seriously odd to me that my cat couldn't kill a mouse even if he tried.

A cat hunting a mouse is really a survival check to subsist, rather than a combat.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
David knott 242 wrote:

Last sentence under "Modifiers and AC":

"If it attempts an attack roll or other skill check, it uses your level as its modifier. It doesn't have or use its own ability modifiers and can never benefit from item bonuses."

So it can't do a physical attack (since it has no defined damage type or damage die) but it can attempt any attack needed to cast a spell.

Wow, not to further derail this but if I'm reading that correctly using a familiar to deliver any spell that requires an attack roll is a terrible idea; it's going to have between a -5 and -10 penalty on average to deliver the spell compared to you doing it yourself...

Hopefully the intended interpretation is that it uses your spell attack roll (in the same way it uses your save DC) and the line about it using your level as its attack roll is only if somehow it ends up making an attack roll for some other reason (like to escape a grapple)...

Grand Lodge

MaxAstro wrote:

Wow, not to further derail this but if I'm reading that correctly using a familiar to deliver any spell that requires an attack roll is a terrible idea; it's going to have between a -5 and -10 penalty on average to deliver the spell compared to you doing it yourself...

Hopefully the intended interpretation is that it uses your spell attack roll (in the same way it uses your proficiency) and the line about it using your level as its attack roll is only if somehow it ends up making an attack roll for some other reason...

Wow yeah if that's the case the familiar might as well not be able to deliver bad touch spells at all.


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When the Leshy ancestry comes out, I plan on making a Leshy druid who takes the leaf order and order explorer for the wild order, then plant form, verdant metamorphosis, and perfect form control.

So I am a plant, with a familiar who is a plant, who has metamorphosed into a plant that looks like their original plant self but can freely become a tree, who can spend an indefinite period of time wild shaped into a battle plant.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Syries wrote:
MaxAstro wrote:

Wow, not to further derail this but if I'm reading that correctly using a familiar to deliver any spell that requires an attack roll is a terrible idea; it's going to have between a -5 and -10 penalty on average to deliver the spell compared to you doing it yourself...

Hopefully the intended interpretation is that it uses your spell attack roll (in the same way it uses your proficiency) and the line about it using your level as its attack roll is only if somehow it ends up making an attack roll for some other reason...

Wow yeah if that's the case the familiar might as well not be able to deliver bad touch spells at all.

They would probably have better luck with touch spells that have saves rather than attack rolls (since the save DC would presumably be yours).


Xenocrat wrote:
shroudb wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
shroudb wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Use an Unseen Servant spell to carry and open inhaled poison containers (10' cube that lasts 1 minute when opened) crafted by an alchemist during daily preparations. This one really just requires cooperation between an alchemist and an arcane or occult caster, but you can do it via multiclassing.
or you can simply throw the vial. Nothing says that you can't unleash inhaled poisons with whatever method you choose to.

You can't throw it, because it doesn't say you can, it's an interact action to "release it," and what are the rules for throwing a poison "container" (which is not a bomb) and ensuring it breaks open in the desired intersection?

There are only three of them and they're all high level, I imagine Paizo thought they'd be used as components of traps.

ofc you can. the only thing the rules say is that:

"it's interact to unlease the gas" sure.

that doesn't mean that you need to open it right in your face.

to be exact, the only thing the rules say is that:
"An inhaled poison is activated by unleashing
it from its container."

HOW you unlease it from the container is your own business, but the action cost for doing so is an interact action.

it can be an interact action to throw a breakable vial containing it.

p.s.
the rules for throwing a tiny container are the rules of throwing ANY tiny item.

or do you imply that in pathfinder you can't throw items?

Not with mechanical effect, you can’t. Unless it’s a bomb, ranged weapon, improvised weapon, or something else with a rule.

You also can’t throw a vial to apply a contact poison.

I'm getting exactly the same as you: interact action (manipulate an item) to unleash the poison. Why do YOU think that's "uncorking a vial"? And why do you think that's the only interact action allowed?

Interact is "manipulating an item".

Throwing a vase out of the window, as an example, is an interact action.

Similarly throwing a glass vial is an Interact action.

If the vial breaks or not is 100% depend on the vial you're using. A steel cylinder obviously won't, a glass vial on a cavern, will.

Again, all this is 100% RAW.

NOWHERE does it states that you need to open the inhaled poison right in your face. Interact action in fact doesn't even have a base range exactly because it depends on what interact action actually does.

Just that unleashing it COSTS an interact action as is normal for all "manipulate an item" actions.

What kind of interact is 100% up to you. It may be uncorking as you want, it may be throwing, it may be opening a lid in a casket container, it may be myriad of things all depending on the container.

P. S.

The rules for throwing a poison container are exactly the same as throwing an "anything" container.

By the rules, it's an interact action to manipulate an item.

That's the extend of the rules since there's an unlimited amount of containers and things that can be contained/spilled from within.


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shroudb wrote:
The rules for throwing a poison container are exactly the same as throwing an "anything" container.

Right, so you agree with me that there are no rules allowing this in a way that has mechanical effects in combat. Throwing things is either a strike (not an interact action) with a weapon or improvised weapon against a target, or an interact action with no direct consequences that assists some other action (I throw a vase for a circumstance bonus on a Deception check to Create a Diversion, where it doesn't matter exactly where it lands.) But this is an interact action to open a container that has effects on a specific grid intersection.

Alternatively, please point me to the rules telling me how far I can throw an "anything" container, how range increments work, what I roll to hit a grid intersection, and what happens when I miss (hit another grid intersection, it magically disappears with no effect, I crit fail and drop it at my feet, whatever).

Inhaled poisons are clearly designed to be opened by hand or mechanical (trap) apparatus via an interact action.

P.S. Compressed gasses are not generally stored in fragile glass bottles that easily and automatically break on impact when thrown.


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MaxAstro wrote:

Bouncing off of Paradozen's idea, rogue multiclass druid.

Train your own flanking buddy. :D

I think this works better the other way around. A rogue/druid will have an animal companion significantly behind the curve, which will probably lead to a lot of pet corpses. The sneak attack from multiclass is underwhelming, but pairs well with the cat animal companion, which you can eventually get side by side and both "sneak attack". For an extra level on this, multiclass monk as well for tiger stance to imitate your cat's fighting style.

Another idea: The Petcromancer. Necromancer/druid who has the create undead ritual and every time an animal companion dies he reanimates them and gets a new living one. Once you hit your minion limit start letting go and moving on from the older ones.


Xenocrat wrote:
shroudb wrote:
The rules for throwing a poison container are exactly the same as throwing an "anything" container.

Right, so you agree with me that there are no rules allowing this in a way that has mechanical effects in combat. Throwing things is either a strike (not an interact action) with a weapon or improvised weapon against a target, or an interact action with no direct consequences that assists some other action (I throw a vase for a circumstance bonus on a Deception check to Create a Diversion, where it doesn't matter exactly where it lands.) But this is an interact action to open a container that has effects on a specific grid intersection.

Alternatively, please point me to the rules telling me how far I can throw an "anything" container, how range increments work, what I roll to hit a grid intersection, and what happens when I miss (hit another grid intersection, it magically disappears with no effect, I crit fail and drop it at my feet, whatever).

Inhaled poisons are clearly designed to be opened by hand or mechanical (trap) apparatus via an interact action.

P.S. Compressed gasses are not generally stored in fragile glass bottles that easily and automatically break on impact when thrown.

No not really. You can obviously use Interact in combat. Hell, half the things you do as an Alchemist in combat is Interact.

There are also clear rules what happens, mechanically, when you interact in combat with an item. You provoke, if you get critical hit you get disrupted, etc.

I'm still waiting for you to point out where it says that the interact is point blank range in your face.

Again:

Interact is manipulating an object.

Your view of "this is point blank" is as valid as my view of "you can throw".

Also, who said you can't use Interact in combat?

Again, you keep referring to some rules that don't exist:

Interact, in no way, shape, or form, implies that it's "uncorking a vial".


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Could we take the interact/poison vial discussion over to the Rules Questions forum instead? It's getting off-topic.


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Paradozen wrote:
Could we take the interact/poison vial discussion over to the Rules Questions forum instead? It's getting off-topic.

You're correct. Sorry.

I'll offer as an apology the "Pointlessly Snob Aristocrat"

He's a scoundrel rogue, but doesn't really care about the upgrade to the feign ability, after all he's not gonna degrade himself to the level of a bunch of mooks that get their hands dirty.

Instead he has some magical ability, obviously from his much super bloodline compared to the plebs.

You pick up minor magic, dread striker and magical trickster. And now you can easily sneak attack with your cantrips against the lowly creatures that tremble in front of your majestic appearance.

You also pick up "you're next" just to remind people who's the boss around here.

We don't care about level 8. Maybe your superior blood manifested even more (sorc archetype for more cantrips)

At 10 you pick up sneak savant. It's not that you're hiding from anyone. It's just them being too scared to even look towards you.

At 12 we continue with sorc

At 14 you pick up instant opening. That's just because there exist stuff so stupid that they don't understand to tremble in your presence.

At 16 either other (lowly) people have gotten even better at looking away from you (perfect distraction) or you have finally broken through the mortal plane and plebs can't even begin to realise what you're thinking (blank slate)

And etc


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I made the ultimate grappler. It is a half orc barbarian with a monk dedication. The reason is simple:

Giant/Titan stature to grapple gargantuan creatures

Both Barbarian and Monk allow you to separate damage grappled creatures with your STR mod

there is a level 6 monk feat that lets you throw a grappled creature with bonus if you are larger (up to +10 for 2 size larger)

Half orc can get an advanced weapon as a feat, so you can dual wield large sized Nunchucks (a weapon that lets you add item bonus to grapple checks)

I did the math (the monster math), and at level 20, you can grapple Treerazor with a 14 on the die.

I dont have the sheet in front of me to describe what I took when. I know that level 2 and 4 are quiet in terms of Barbarian feats that deal with grapple, so that was when I dipped the first time, and I believe I took the monk throw around 14, because being larger is more important than throwing (even though I based the build on this very interaction)


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shroudb wrote:
Your view of "this is point blank" is as valid as my view of "you can throw".

It's not, but I'm not arguing with you anymore than I argue with antivaxxers or flat worlders I find on the internet. I just point out the truth and its evidence so that those who are capable of understanding it aren't getting a fringe view supported by a lot of heat and no light.

Back on topic.


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shroudb wrote:
Paradozen wrote:
Could we take the interact/poison vial discussion over to the Rules Questions forum instead? It's getting off-topic.

You're correct. Sorry.

I'll offer as an apology the "Pointlessly Snob Aristocrat"

He's a scoundrel rogue, but doesn't really care about the upgrade to the feign ability, after all he's not gonna degrade himself to the level of a bunch of mooks that get their hands dirty.

Instead he has some magical ability, obviously from his much super bloodline compared to the plebs.

You pick up minor magic, dread striker and magical trickster. And now you can easily sneak attack with your cantrips against the lowly creatures that tremble in front of your majestic appearance.

You also pick up "you're next" just to remind people who's the boss around here.

We don't care about level 8. Maybe your superior blood manifested even more (sorc archetype for more cantrips)

At 10 you pick up sneak savant. It's not that you're hiding from anyone. It's just them being too scared to even look towards you.

At 12 we continue with sorc

At 14 you pick up instant opening. That's just because there exist stuff so stupid that they don't understand to tremble in your presence.

At 16 either other (lowly) people have gotten even better at looking away from you (perfect distraction) or you have finally broken through the mortal plane and plebs can't even begin to realise what you're thinking (blank slate)

And etc

I feel a little silly for not thinking of dread striker myself, I've been wondering what the best way to do exactly this build would be since magical trickster was previewed.


Arachnofiend wrote:
shroudb wrote:
Paradozen wrote:
Could we take the interact/poison vial discussion over to the Rules Questions forum instead? It's getting off-topic.

You're correct. Sorry.

I'll offer as an apology the "Pointlessly Snob Aristocrat"

He's a scoundrel rogue, but doesn't really care about the upgrade to the feign ability, after all he's not gonna degrade himself to the level of a bunch of mooks that get their hands dirty.

Instead he has some magical ability, obviously from his much super bloodline compared to the plebs.

You pick up minor magic, dread striker and magical trickster. And now you can easily sneak attack with your cantrips against the lowly creatures that tremble in front of your majestic appearance.

You also pick up "you're next" just to remind people who's the boss around here.

We don't care about level 8. Maybe your superior blood manifested even more (sorc archetype for more cantrips)

At 10 you pick up sneak savant. It's not that you're hiding from anyone. It's just them being too scared to even look towards you.

At 12 we continue with sorc

At 14 you pick up instant opening. That's just because there exist stuff so stupid that they don't understand to tremble in your presence.

At 16 either other (lowly) people have gotten even better at looking away from you (perfect distraction) or you have finally broken through the mortal plane and plebs can't even begin to realise what you're thinking (blank slate)

And etc

I feel a little silly for not thinking of dread striker myself, I've been wondering what the best way to do exactly this build would be since magical trickster was previewed.

I'd suggest also produce flame as one of the cantrips.

In case you are faced with a fear immune target before 14 it is the only melee cantrip, so you can take advantage of flanking and feinting.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
shroudb wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
shroudb wrote:
Paradozen wrote:
Could we take the interact/poison vial discussion over to the Rules Questions forum instead? It's getting off-topic.

You're correct. Sorry.

I'll offer as an apology the "Pointlessly Snob Aristocrat"

He's a scoundrel rogue, but doesn't really care about the upgrade to the feign ability, after all he's not gonna degrade himself to the level of a bunch of mooks that get their hands dirty.

Instead he has some magical ability, obviously from his much super bloodline compared to the plebs.

You pick up minor magic, dread striker and magical trickster. And now you can easily sneak attack with your cantrips against the lowly creatures that tremble in front of your majestic appearance.

You also pick up "you're next" just to remind people who's the boss around here.

We don't care about level 8. Maybe your superior blood manifested even more (sorc archetype for more cantrips)

At 10 you pick up sneak savant. It's not that you're hiding from anyone. It's just them being too scared to even look towards you.

At 12 we continue with sorc

At 14 you pick up instant opening. That's just because there exist stuff so stupid that they don't understand to tremble in your presence.

At 16 either other (lowly) people have gotten even better at looking away from you (perfect distraction) or you have finally broken through the mortal plane and plebs can't even begin to realise what you're thinking (blank slate)

And etc

I feel a little silly for not thinking of dread striker myself, I've been wondering what the best way to do exactly this build would be since magical trickster was previewed.

I'd suggest also produce flame as one of the cantrips.

In case you are faced with a fear immune target before 14 it is the only melee cantrip, so you can take advantage of flanking and feinting.

You could even flavor it as your fiery rage at those dirty plebs not showing proper respect literally manifesting itself as real fire!


Boomstik101 wrote:

I made the ultimate grappler. It is a half orc barbarian with a monk dedication. The reason is simple:

Giant/Titan stature to grapple gargantuan creatures

Both Barbarian and Monk allow you to separate damage grappled creatures with your STR mod

there is a level 6 monk feat that lets you throw a grappled creature with bonus if you are larger (up to +10 for 2 size larger)

Half orc can get an advanced weapon as a feat, so you can dual wield large sized Nunchucks (a weapon that lets you add item bonus to grapple checks)

I did the math (the monster math), and at level 20, you can grapple Treerazor with a 14 on the die.

I dont have the sheet in front of me to describe what I took when. I know that level 2 and 4 are quiet in terms of Barbarian feats that deal with grapple, so that was when I dipped the first time, and I believe I took the monk throw around 14, because being larger is more important than throwing (even though I based the build on this very interaction)

Nunchucks aren't a grapple weapon (they are backswing, disarm, finesse, monk)

Did you mean something else?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
shroudb wrote:


Nunchucks aren't a grapple weapon (they are backswing, disarm, finesse, monk)

Did you mean something else?

I dont have my book in front of me, but I remember them being the *only* grapple weapon. Maybe my eye wandered on the weapons table.

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