Let's talk about some niche, unexpected, weird, or fun builds.


Advice

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There are no grapple weapons in the CRB although Ape, Shark and Snake natural attacks that the Barbarian can pick up have the grapple property.


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Boomstik101 wrote:
shroudb wrote:


Nunchucks aren't a grapple weapon (they are backswing, disarm, finesse, monk)

Did you mean something else?

I dont have my book in front of me, but I remember them being the *only* grapple weapon. Maybe my eye wandered on the weapons table.

Ctrl-F on the PDF reveals that while the grapple weapon trait is defined, there is no grapple weapon listed. Odd.


Boomstik101 wrote:
shroudb wrote:


Nunchucks aren't a grapple weapon (they are backswing, disarm, finesse, monk)

Did you mean something else?

I dont have my book in front of me, but I remember them being the *only* grapple weapon. Maybe my eye wandered on the weapons table.

actually... just went over the weapon table.

there ISN'T a single grapple weapon in the list.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Huh... I must have been hallucinating then. I could have sworn I saw it on paper.


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You likely saw it in the Barbarian instinct section; as stated by others the Barbarian can get some natural attacks that grapple.

I'm not terribly surprised that there aren't any grapple weapons in core since all the weapons with that feature in PF1 were pretty weird - I would have been very surprised to see the mancatcher in the initial release of PF2. I'm sure proper grapple weapons are on their way Soon(tm).


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This is more counterintuitive than stupid, but a level 15+ Scare to Death build should consider a Demoralize action followed by a Scare to Death for maximum debuffing/killing chance. They're two different actions so temporary immunity doesn't effect the other.

The Demoralize hopefully gives you a -1 or -2 penalty to the target, who is then both easier to effect with Scare to Death (for getting the crit success) and fail the subsequent save.

You've still got one action left.


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So, I'm thinking that multiclassing into Ranger looks like a good idea for Alchemists who like lobbing bombs. Just getting the dedication lets them throw their bombs from further away, since it lets them ignore the first range increment penalty, and the Hunter's Aim feat's boost to attack rolls means it's more likely the persistent damage of your alchemist's acid is going to doubled (critical hits, and all that).


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Ventnor wrote:
So, I'm thinking that multiclassing into Ranger looks like a good idea for Alchemists who like lobbing bombs. Just getting the dedication lets them throw their bombs from further away, since it lets them ignore the first range increment penalty, and the Hunter's Aim feat's boost to attack rolls means it's more likely the persistent damage of your alchemist's acid is going to doubled (critical hits, and all that).

That's a really nice three action turn! Effectively give them martial equivalent proficiency for that one strike.


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Xenocrat wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
So, I'm thinking that multiclassing into Ranger looks like a good idea for Alchemists who like lobbing bombs. Just getting the dedication lets them throw their bombs from further away, since it lets them ignore the first range increment penalty, and the Hunter's Aim feat's boost to attack rolls means it's more likely the persistent damage of your alchemist's acid is going to doubled (critical hits, and all that).
That's a really nice three action turn! Effectively give them martial equivalent proficiency for that one strike.

the main problem i see with that is that it doesn't work with quick draw/quick bomber since those only work on a strike

that makes it 4 actions to hunt, draw, and hunter's aim something

RAnger for sure is a good archetype though, hunt target is more range than far lobber (and they stack if you want both, giving you a decent range of 60 basically), and quick draw is a better quick bomber if you want to use other weapons as well. For Chirurgeons Crossbow Ace is also nice, as is running reload.


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Ventnor wrote:
So, I'm thinking that multiclassing into Ranger looks like a good idea for Alchemists who like lobbing bombs. Just getting the dedication lets them throw their bombs from further away, since it lets them ignore the first range increment penalty, and the Hunter's Aim feat's boost to attack rolls means it's more likely the persistent damage of your alchemist's acid is going to doubled (critical hits, and all that).

"I take your name. I hunt you down. I blow you up." -Bombranger? Rangechemist?


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crossbow ace and alchemical crossbows are good too (item from fall of plaguestone)


shroudb wrote:
You pick up minor magic, dread striker and magical trickster.

Instead of minor magic, you can take the sorcerer dedication: If you want more cantrips, you could take Basic Arcana [Cantrip Expansion].


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shroudb wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
So, I'm thinking that multiclassing into Ranger looks like a good idea for Alchemists who like lobbing bombs. Just getting the dedication lets them throw their bombs from further away, since it lets them ignore the first range increment penalty, and the Hunter's Aim feat's boost to attack rolls means it's more likely the persistent damage of your alchemist's acid is going to doubled (critical hits, and all that).
That's a really nice three action turn! Effectively give them martial equivalent proficiency for that one strike.

the main problem i see with that is that it doesn't work with quick draw/quick bomber since those only work on a strike

that makes it 4 actions to hunt, draw, and hunter's aim something.

I feel like you can have a bomb drawn before round 1 (other people are going to walk around with their weapons drawn), so hunt + hunter's aim works. If that same target is up at the start of round 2, you can draw a bomb/use quick alchemy and then use hunter's aim again. So you're okay unless you need to retarget who you're hunting. Question I have is when you start creating multiple items with quick alchemy- are you considered to be holding all of them?

Far Shot, I think is going to stack with far lobber and hunt target in case you want to huck bombs 120', or 240' with Uncanny Bombs.


I've been kicking around a Barbarian w/ MC Bard. The build aims to be a buff bot and a tank-ish character. Shield Block is taken as a General Feat, but it's not a spam tactic per se. Grab the Barbarian Intimidation feat at 1; be Human and take an extra 1st level feat for Moment of Clarity. Get Bard MC and then Bard spell casting at 2 and 4. Take Bless 1/day. At 8, Shared Rage and at 10 Inspire Courage. From then on, your turn is basically an action to Demoralize, an action to Inspire, and then one attack. With the potential to swing the whole party's hit chance by 10%, you're a walking problem for a baddy.

The idea is far from optimized, though... and I suspect that Bard w/ MC Fighter/Champ might do this shtick better (but without the massive damage bonus from Share Rage).


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Greg.Everham wrote:

I've been kicking around a Barbarian w/ MC Bard. The build aims to be a buff bot and a tank-ish character. Shield Block is taken as a General Feat, but it's not a spam tactic per se. Grab the Barbarian Intimidation feat at 1; be Human and take an extra 1st level feat for Moment of Clarity. Get Bard MC and then Bard spell casting at 2 and 4. Take Bless 1/day. At 8, Shared Rage and at 10 Inspire Courage. From then on, your turn is basically an action to Demoralize, an action to Inspire, and then one attack. With the potential to swing the whole party's hit chance by 10%, you're a walking problem for a baddy.

The idea is far from optimized, though... and I suspect that Bard w/ MC Fighter/Champ might do this shtick better (but without the massive damage bonus from Share Rage).

For your instrument, I suggest you take a tamburin or a kazoo. Imagine how glorious you'd be.


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Corvo Spiritwind wrote:
Greg.Everham wrote:

I've been kicking around a Barbarian w/ MC Bard. The build aims to be a buff bot and a tank-ish character. Shield Block is taken as a General Feat, but it's not a spam tactic per se. Grab the Barbarian Intimidation feat at 1; be Human and take an extra 1st level feat for Moment of Clarity. Get Bard MC and then Bard spell casting at 2 and 4. Take Bless 1/day. At 8, Shared Rage and at 10 Inspire Courage. From then on, your turn is basically an action to Demoralize, an action to Inspire, and then one attack. With the potential to swing the whole party's hit chance by 10%, you're a walking problem for a baddy.

The idea is far from optimized, though... and I suspect that Bard w/ MC Fighter/Champ might do this shtick better (but without the massive damage bonus from Share Rage).

For your instrument, I suggest you take a tamburin or a kazoo. Imagine how glorious you'd be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCP0NbqTKfw

Magnificent.


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Greg.Everham wrote:
Corvo Spiritwind wrote:
Greg.Everham wrote:

I've been kicking around a Barbarian w/ MC Bard. The build aims to be a buff bot and a tank-ish character. Shield Block is taken as a General Feat, but it's not a spam tactic per se. Grab the Barbarian Intimidation feat at 1; be Human and take an extra 1st level feat for Moment of Clarity. Get Bard MC and then Bard spell casting at 2 and 4. Take Bless 1/day. At 8, Shared Rage and at 10 Inspire Courage. From then on, your turn is basically an action to Demoralize, an action to Inspire, and then one attack. With the potential to swing the whole party's hit chance by 10%, you're a walking problem for a baddy.

The idea is far from optimized, though... and I suspect that Bard w/ MC Fighter/Champ might do this shtick better (but without the massive damage bonus from Share Rage).

For your instrument, I suggest you take a tamburin or a kazoo. Imagine how glorious you'd be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCP0NbqTKfw

Magnificent.

If that won't put the fear of gods into the enemies. Nothing will. Combine that with that intimidating Glare...


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Xenocrat wrote:

This is more counterintuitive than stupid, but a level 15+ Scare to Death build should consider a Demoralize action followed by a Scare to Death for maximum debuffing/killing chance. They're two different actions so temporary immunity doesn't effect the other.

The Demoralize hopefully gives you a -1 or -2 penalty to the target, who is then both easier to effect with Scare to Death (for getting the crit success) and fail the subsequent save.

You've still got one action left.

"you're talking to me?" *Intimidate*

"DO YOU, PUNK?" *scare to death*

Sequence checks out.
I'm OK with it ^^


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Corvo Spiritwind wrote:
Greg.Everham wrote:
Corvo Spiritwind wrote:
Greg.Everham wrote:

I've been kicking around a Barbarian w/ MC Bard. The build aims to be a buff bot and a tank-ish character. Shield Block is taken as a General Feat, but it's not a spam tactic per se. Grab the Barbarian Intimidation feat at 1; be Human and take an extra 1st level feat for Moment of Clarity. Get Bard MC and then Bard spell casting at 2 and 4. Take Bless 1/day. At 8, Shared Rage and at 10 Inspire Courage. From then on, your turn is basically an action to Demoralize, an action to Inspire, and then one attack. With the potential to swing the whole party's hit chance by 10%, you're a walking problem for a baddy.

The idea is far from optimized, though... and I suspect that Bard w/ MC Fighter/Champ might do this shtick better (but without the massive damage bonus from Share Rage).

For your instrument, I suggest you take a tamburin or a kazoo. Imagine how glorious you'd be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCP0NbqTKfw

Magnificent.

If that won't put the fear of gods into the enemies. Nothing will. Combine that with that intimidating Glare...

I feel like this is also relevant.


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The cantrip damage maximizer!

1. Produce Flame cantrip
2. Burn It! goblin ancestry feat (half spell level status bonus to fire damage)
3. Rogue Dedication MC feat
4. Basic Trickery MC feat - select whatever, but probably minor magic utility cantrips
5. Sneak Attacker MC feat
6. Advanced Trickery MC feat - select magical trickster

Always some extra fire damage on your Produce Flame, plus sneak attack damage when it qualifies.

At 6th level with 1d6 sneak attack your cantrip is doing 3d4+4+3+1d6 (avg 18, 56% increase over basic cantrip) on a flat footed opponent (and you can flank in melee with Produce Flame), 14.5 without sneak attack (31.8% increase).

Next level you get expert spell proficiency and another 1d4+1 fire damage, average 21.5 (72% increase over basic) on a sneak attack or 18 (28.6%). That's your sweet spot for being ahead of the curve, get those enemies flat footed and enjoy it.

Opening round, ranged PF against someone who hasn't acted yet, get sneak attack, use one action to move into flanking position.

Edit: For an extra dumb build, put this on a human bard who uses inspire courage/heroics to fuel his flame attacks that are more accurate and damaging than his sword options. Plus you can intimidate on subsequent rounds if you set up lingering performance. Can be done at 3rd level - human ancestry feat on grabbing the cantrip as an occult list option, versatile heritage to get adopted (goblin), 3rd level general feat to get an extra ancestry feat and get Burn It! from the goblin side of things.

You could also do it as goblin bard getting adopted into human, but that would take until 7th level. Which is, admittedly, dumber and maybe better for this thread.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Xenocrat wrote:

The cantrip damage maximizer!

1. Produce Flame cantrip
2. Burn It! goblin ancestry feat (half spell level status bonus to fire damage)
3. Rogue Dedication MC feat
4. Basic Trickery MC feat - select whatever, but probably minor magic utility cantrips
5. Sneak Attacker MC feat
6. Advanced Trickery MC feat - select magical trickster

Always some extra fire damage on your Produce Flame, plus sneak attack damage when it qualifies.

At 6th level with 1d6 sneak attack your cantrip is doing 3d4+4+3+1d6 (avg 18, 56% increase over basic cantrip) on a flat footed opponent (and you can flank in melee with Produce Flame), 14.5 without sneak attack (31.8% increase).

Next level you get expert spell proficiency and another 1d4+1 fire damage, average 21.5 (72% increase over basic) on a sneak attack or 18 (28.6%). That's your sweet spot for being ahead of the curve, get those enemies flat foo...

You could also do it as goblin bard getting adopted into human, but that would take until 7th level. Which is, admittedly, dumber and maybe better for this thread.

Does heighten still raise the effective spell level for purposes of the ‘Burn it’ Ancestry?


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Rerednaw wrote:


Does heighten still raise the effective spell level for purposes of the ‘Burn it’ Ancestry?

Yes. Burn It! is the only spell damage feat that keys off just spell level (which scales for cantrips) of any spell, unlike the sorcerer options that specify a spell cast with slots or in some cases also with focus spells. So for cantrip boosts I think this is all we have right now. Plus inspire courage.

Incidentally, while this is indeed a dumb build, it's not as dumb as I thought at first for our bard. Your spell proficiency is often ahead of your weapon proficiency, and that keeps you equal to or ahead of the item bonuses you can get on a longsword. Your stat damage is higher on the cantrip than the longsword, and a longsword with max striking runes does exactly the same damage as a fully maxed out Produce Flame.

Of course the longsword can also add elemental damage runes and doesn't require a lot of build resources and niche feats, plus can benefit from the sneak attack just fine. But it also costs a lot of money, so.


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Xenocrat wrote:

The cantrip damage maximizer!

1. Produce Flame cantrip
2. Burn It! goblin ancestry feat (half spell level status bonus to fire damage)
3. Rogue Dedication MC feat
4. Basic Trickery MC feat - select whatever, but probably minor magic utility cantrips
5. Sneak Attacker MC feat
6. Advanced Trickery MC feat - select magical trickster

Always some extra fire damage on your Produce Flame, plus sneak attack damage when it qualifies.

At 6th level with 1d6 sneak attack your cantrip is doing 3d4+4+3+1d6 (avg 18, 56% increase over basic cantrip) on a flat footed opponent (and you can flank in melee with Produce Flame), 14.5 without sneak attack (31.8% increase).

Next level you get expert spell proficiency and another 1d4+1 fire damage, average 21.5 (72% increase over basic) on a sneak attack or 18 (28.6%). That's your sweet spot for being ahead of the curve, get those enemies flat footed and enjoy it.

Opening round, ranged PF against someone who hasn't acted yet, get sneak attack, use one action to move into flanking position.

Edit: For an extra dumb build, put this on a human bard who uses inspire courage/heroics to fuel his flame attacks that are more accurate and damaging than his sword options. Plus you can intimidate on subsequent rounds if you set up lingering performance. Can be done at 3rd level - human ancestry feat on grabbing the cantrip as an occult list option, versatile heritage to get adopted (goblin), 3rd level general feat to get an extra ancestry feat and get Burn It! from the goblin side of things.

You could also do it as goblin bard getting adopted into human, but that would take until 7th level. Which is, admittedly, dumber and maybe better for this thread.

Why not use a Rogue and grab produce flames from sorc/Druid MC? More sneak attack for master instead of legendary prof.


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Do Rogues get Mastery in their spell rolls? As far as I can tell they never advanced past the baseline Trained for innate spells.


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Arachnofiend wrote:
Do Rogues get Mastery in their spell rolls? As far as I can tell they never advanced past the baseline Trained for innate spells.

I was suggesting MC into Sorc/Druid for higher casting prof.


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Pumpkinhead11 wrote:
Why not use a Rogue and grab produce flames from sorc/Druid MC? More sneak attack for master instead of legendary prof.

I think it's the accuracy thing. For an MC caster you're expert at 12, master at 18; for a caster you're expert at 7, master at 15, legend at 19. So you're +2 ahead for levels 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 15, 16, 17, 19, 20. Plus this way you can keep your presumably valuable level 18 feat.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
Pumpkinhead11 wrote:
Why not use a Rogue and grab produce flames from sorc/Druid MC? More sneak attack for master instead of legendary prof.
I think it's the accuracy thing. For an MC caster you're expert at 12, master at 18; for a caster you're expert at 7, master at 15, legend at 19. So you're +2 ahead for levels 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 15, 16, 17, 19, 20. Plus this way you can keep your presumably valuable level 18 feat.

Onlt +2 ahead? That doesn't sound too terrible for those who want more rogue abilities.


How much damage would goblin burn it rogue with produce flame cantrip at 6th lvl with sorcerer dedication and magical trickster?

Shadow Lodge

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I built this one in the playtest AP, but a scholarly gnome barbarian who never deigns to hit things herself. She's a Spirit totem, and all her attacks are through Spirit's Wrath. Any feats that didn't go to Spirit totem instead went to intimidate and Multiclass sorcerer : aberrant. Because adding Aberrant whispers to the spirits flying around her made her the creapiest little intimidator every. Sadly, you can no longer get the advanced bloodline spells through multiclassing, and the build can't be made until level 12 when Spirit's Wrath is available.

I'm poking at a version for real play, but obviously she'll have to hit things herself now. Since I can't get Aberrant Whispers, I might take Imperial bloodline and fluff Ancestral Memories as spirits talking to her, or dip something else.


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

This wasn't all originally my idea. I got most of it from a discussion in the Arcane Mark discord. But, here is a build for a high mobility archer.

Half-Elf Archer Champion (Paladin) of Erastil:
Elf Atavism (Woodland Elf)
Divine Ally: Blade (the Weapon Critical Specialization and Divine Smite's benefit later on are nice)
Domain Spell: True Strike
1st Level Class Feat: Ranged Reprisal
2nd Level Class Feat: Fighter Dedication
3rd Level General Feat: Fleet (or Adopted Ancestry to pick Unburdened Iron from Dwarf, Goblin Scuttle, or Natural Ambition from Human for another class feat or to get Point Blank Shot earlier, if you can use that feat to get a multiclass feat. Or you could go Gnome and get that familiar.)
4th Level Class Feat: Point Blank Shot
5th Level Ancestry Feat: Nimble Elf
6th Level Class Feat: Assisting Shot
7th Level General Feat: Get either Fleet if you did not before or one of the others mentioned above at 3rd level.
8th Level Class Feat: Ranger Dedication
9th Level Ancestry Feat: Elf Step
10th Level Class Feat: Hunted Shot

One thing that needs some clarity, though - Can you use Natural Ambition to pick a feat from a class you had to take the multiclass dedication feat for? It does not appear to be clear either way as it is not directly addressed, at all, unless you strictly interpret Natural Ambition's use of the phrase, "1st-level class feat for your class" to mean only the class which you took at 1st level. But, using it to gain a feat from your multiclass fits the spirit of the feat.

EDIT: for clarity and accuracy.

Shadow Lodge

Other quick ideas:

Bomber MC fighter for Point Blank Shot. or MC Barbar for Thrower + rage.

Healing Cleric MC Sorcerer (angelic) for Halo.

Rogue MC fighter for Snaging Strike to make FF. (May have been listed above).

Snare specialist Ranger - getting 4+ free per day could actually be nice, even if it takes a whole turn to set one out. The damage is pretty solid.

Note on Barbars dipping Spellcaster. The only spells that require concentration are those with verbal components. Take those out, and you're left with... 13 spells to pick from. That's if you count single-action heal & harm. But hey, you get Jump at 1, Invisibility and Silence at 2, and a few higher level options (3@3, 2@5, 1@6, 2@8)


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Animal Mutagenist

Alchemist familiar with Ranger Dedication for Animal Companion

The build is basically to use the Greater Energy Mutagen on the two animals so you use the 30ft 12d6 Breath Attack with each of them, the animal companion with Lab Assistant and Manual Dexterity to help feeding the mutagens.

A Meerkat on top of a Warthog will do...


Kyrone wrote:

Animal Mutagenist

Alchemist familiar with Ranger Dedication for Animal Companion

The build is basically to use the Greater Energy Mutagen on the two animals so you use the 30ft 12d6 Breath Attack with each of them, the animal companion with Lab Assistant and Manual Dexterity to help feeding the mutagens.

A Meerkat on top of a Warthog will do...

Correct me if i’m wrong, but i don’t believe you can have an AC and Familiar at the same time.


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Ashanderai wrote:


One thing that needs some clarity, though - Can you use Natural Ambition to pick a feat from a class you had to take the multiclass dedication feat for? It does not appear to be clear either way as it is not directly addressed, at all, unless you strictly interpret Natural Ambition's use of the phrase, "1st-level class feat for your class" to mean only the class which you took at 1st level. But, using it to gain a feat from your multiclass fits the spirit of the feat.

When you multiclass, you don't take feats from the class you multiclassed into. Instead, you take the feat from the multiclass archetype which itself gives you a feat from the target class. All of those feats are at least level 2, so you can't take them with natural ambition.


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Pumpkinhead11 wrote:
Kyrone wrote:

Animal Mutagenist

Alchemist familiar with Ranger Dedication for Animal Companion

The build is basically to use the Greater Energy Mutagen on the two animals so you use the 30ft 12d6 Breath Attack with each of them, the animal companion with Lab Assistant and Manual Dexterity to help feeding the mutagens.

A Meerkat on top of a Warthog will do...

Correct me if i’m wrong, but i don’t believe you can have an AC and Familiar at the same time.

It only says that you can't have two familiars or two AC, but have no rule that says you can't have an animal companion and a familiar at the same time.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
FowlJ wrote:
Ashanderai wrote:


One thing that needs some clarity, though - Can you use Natural Ambition to pick a feat from a class you had to take the multiclass dedication feat for? It does not appear to be clear either way as it is not directly addressed, at all, unless you strictly interpret Natural Ambition's use of the phrase, "1st-level class feat for your class" to mean only the class which you took at 1st level. But, using it to gain a feat from your multiclass fits the spirit of the feat.
When you multiclass, you don't take feats from the class you multiclassed into. Instead, you take the feat from the multiclass archetype which itself gives you a feat from the target class. All of those feats are at least level 2, so you can't take them with natural ambition.

Ah. That will do it (or not, as the case may be). Thank you for finding a good answer that so clearly and concisely resolves the question.

That said, that champion archer build never relied on Natural Ambition to take a Fighter feat, so the rest of it is valid. You could still take one of the other ancestral feats. Also, the idea of taking Adopted Ancestry at 3rd level to pick up Natural Ambition is still a decent idea if you need a workaround when your want more 1st level feats from your starting class.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Kyrone wrote:

Animal Mutagenist

Alchemist familiar with Ranger Dedication for Animal Companion

The build is basically to use the Greater Energy Mutagen on the two animals so you use the 30ft 12d6 Breath Attack with each of them, the animal companion with Lab Assistant and Manual Dexterity to help feeding the mutagens.

A Meerkat on top of a Warthog will do...

You could do this with a Gnome to get the familiar and free up that 1st level class feat for a different Alchemist feat, too. Though, you would lose out by having to use your Charisma modifier instead of your Intelligence modifier to determine the familiar's Perception, Acrobatics, and Stealth modifiers.


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Greg.Everham wrote:
Corvo Spiritwind wrote:
For your instrument, I suggest you take a tamburin or a kazoo. Imagine how glorious you'd be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCP0NbqTKfw

Magnificent.

Now I know what the music played by the pipers surrounding Azathoth sounds like.


I'm super new to the edition and maybe someone can help me make sure this works/make it bettah?
I'm sort of winging this, and only touching an aspect of the character idea, so not really using skill/general feats yet:

Main class: Rogue, let's say level 5.
1st class feat is spent on the dual wield strike feat.
2nd class feat is spent on Fighter MC.
4th class feat is spent on Fighter Feat that fears enemies when you deal damage.
6th class feat is spent on Dread Strike(or something like that) from rogue which makes feared enemies flat-footed to me.
8th class feat is spent on Twist the Knife rogue feat, allowing me to apply bleed based after a successful flat-footed attack.

If I read it right, in a round, I could use the 1st feat to do a 1-2 attack, 2nd being guaranteed flat-footed I believe, then I can spend an action for debilitating attack rogue feature followed by the Twist-the knife feat for bleed. I'm not sure how viable it is, but it seems fun to just mess up baddies. Does fear stack? If my attacks apply feared 1 and I hit twice, is it feared 2?

Ideas for other feats that fit?


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The fighter's Intimidating Strike is an action that they use (and takes 2 actions, not just 1), not something that gets passively applied to all of their attacks. So it doesn't combine with things like Twin Feint.


FowlJ wrote:
The fighter's Intimidating Strike is an action that they use (and takes 2 actions, not just 1), not something that gets passively applied to all of their attacks. So it doesn't combine with things like Twin Feint.

I just noticed that and I'm very sadface now. I might have to skip that and instead use the rogue feat that fears them when I crit perhaps. I take it Feared 1 effects don't stack up to Feared 2 and 3 with additional hits from same source?

Liberty's Edge

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thistledown wrote:
Note on Barbars dipping Spellcaster. The only spells that require concentration are those with verbal components. Take those out, and you're left with... 13 spells to pick from. That's if you count single-action heal & harm. But hey, you get Jump at 1, Invisibility and Silence at 2, and a few higher level options (3@3, 2@5, 1@6, 2@8)

I think you can also use the Bard spells under the rule on component substitution that replace verbal with playing an instrument (page 303). And the composition spells since they only require using the Performance skill, which does not have the Concentration trait.


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The dread archer:

You start off as a maestro bard, and then:
2: rogue MC
4: rogue feat: you're next/nimble/traps
6: dirge of doom
8: dread striker
9 (human) : Ranger MC
10: ranger feat: hunted shot/harmonise
12; harmonise/hunted shot

Dirge makes enemies not on Frightened but also flat footed for you.
You can keep 2 buffs/debuffs up especially with lingering one and harmonising the other.

And 1 action for 2 attacks fits perfectly into your action economy to use those buffs/debuffs yourself.


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I can't really figure out an interessting fighter build. All that grab and shove stuff doesn't seem too appealing for me.

What are funny fighter builds with/without MC?


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puksone wrote:

I can't really figure out an interessting fighter build. All that grab and shove stuff doesn't seem too appealing for me.

What are funny fighter builds with/without MC?

For the most part, fighter feats are combat feats, not a whole lot of weird ways to build.

I do like the feat that lets you stab an invisible creature and leave your weapon in the stab wound so everyone else know where they are though.


puksone wrote:

I can't really figure out an interessting fighter build. All that grab and shove stuff doesn't seem too appealing for me.

What are funny fighter builds with/without MC?

If you don't like combat maneuver builds - or anything similar, presumably - then the remaining fighter stuff you can build around is shield stuff or attacks of opportunity. For the latter, you could pick up a big weapon and get sudden charge at L1, the lunge feat at L2, a multiclass dedication feat at L4 for any class with arcane or primal spellcasting, then the basic spellcasting feat at L6. You get a 2nd level spell slot which you can use for enlarge at that point. With the resulting reach you can work on inhibiting enemy movement by smacking them with big AoO hits.

Using trick magic item and a wand of enlarge is another means to the same end of course, if you would prefer a different dedication.


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Smart Fighter:
Ancestry, Heritage, and Ethnicity: Tian-Shu Human (Ilverenal Half-Elf)
Background: Artisan (Trained Crafting and Guild Lore; Alchemy Specialty Crafting General Skill Feat (get +1 circumstance bonus on checks to craft alchemical items, increases to +2 circumstance bonus with Master Crafting))
Class: Fighter (Expert Perception; Expert Fortitude and Reflex, Trained Will; Trained Acrobatics, Athletics, Diplomacy, Intimidation, Medicine, and Society; Expert Simple and Martial Weapons, Expert Unarmed Attacks; Trained All Armor, Trained Unarmored Defense, Trained Fighter Class DC)
Languages: Common, Tien, Elven
Deity: Qi Zhong

Starting Ability Boosts and Flaws

Ancestry: +STR, +DEX, -CON, +INT, -CHA
Background: +STR, +DEX
Class: +STR
Free: +STR, +DEX, +CON, +INT
Net: ++++STR, +++DEX, ++INT, -CHA
Starting Ability Scores (Modifiers): 18 STR (+4), 16 DEX (+3), 10 CON (+0), 14 INT (+2), 10 WIS (+0), 8 CHA (-1)

Level by Level Breakdown

1: General Training Ancestry Feat (Alchemical Crafting General Skill Feat (gain four common 1st-level alchemical formulas as well as the ability to craft alchemical items)), Attack of Opportunity Activity, Sudden Charge Fighter Feat (gain access to the Sudden Charge Activity which costs 2 Actions; Stride twice and make a Strike if you end within melee reach of an enemy), Shield Block Activity
2: Alchemist Dedication Multiclass Archetype Feat (Trained Arcana and Alchemist Class DC; Alchemist Infused Reagents class feature, # of reagents equals level, ability to create free alchemical items during daily prep, Advanced Alchemy level is 1 and is fixed... for now; four additional common 1st-level alchemical formulas), Battle Medicine General Skill Feat (Treat Wounds as an action, whether successful or not target is temporarily immune to your Battle Medicine for 1 day)
3: Bravery (Expert Will, success on Will save against a Fear effect gets critical success result instead, when gaining the Frightened condition reduce its value by 1), Toughness General Feat (+1 HP/level), Skill Increase (Expert Crafting)
4: Basic Concoction Archetype Feat (Quick Bomber Alchemist Feat), Magical Crafting General Skill Feat (gain four common 2nd-level or lower magic item formulas and the ability to craft magical items)
5: Ability Boosts (+CON, +INT, +WIS, +CHA), Nimble Elf Ancestry Feat (your Speed increases by 5 feet), Fighter Weapon Mastery (Club; Master Simple and Martial Weapons of the Club group, Expert Advanced Weapons of the Club group; gain Critical Specialization of all weapons with Master Proficiency), Skill Increase (Expert Medicine)
6: Quick Alchemy Archetype Feat (gain the Quick Alchemy Alchemist Activity), Continual Recovery General Skill Feat (when you use the Treat Wounds downtime activity the patient becomes immune for only 10 minutes instead of an hour, this applies only to your Treat Wounds activities not any other the patient receives)
7: Battlefield Surveyor (Master Perception, +2 circumstance bonus to Perception checks for initiative), Diehard General Feat (die at Dying 5), Skill Increase (Master Crafting), Weapon Specialization (deal extra damage based on your weapon proficiency; 2 for Expert, 3 for Master, 4 for Legendary)
8: Advanced Concoction Archetype Feat (Efficient Alchemy Alchemist Feat (when crafting alchemical items during downtime can produce twice as many in a single batch; doesn't affect Advanced Alchemy)), Impeccable Crafting General Skill Feat (whenever you roll a success at a Crafting check to make an item of the type you chose with Specialty Crafting get a critical success instead)
9: Unwavering Mien Ancestry Feat (whenever you're affected by a mental effect with a duration of at least 2 rounds you can reduce that duration by 1 round; when you make a saving throw against an effect that would cause you to fall asleep treat the result as one degree of success better), Combat Flexibility (when making daily preparations can choose and gain one Fighter Feat of 8th level or lower that you don't already have until your next daily preparation and must meet its prerequisites), Juggernaut (Master Fortitude, success on Fortitude save gets critical succes instead), Skill Increase (Master Medicine)
10: Ability Boosts (+DEX, +CON, +INT, +WIS), Expert Alchemy Archetype Feat (Advanced Alchemy level is 5), Inventor General Skill Feat (can spend downtime to invent common formulas you don't know)
11: Armor Expertise (Expert Light armor, Medium armor, Heavy armor, and Unarmored Defense; gain Armor Specialization effects of Medium and Heavy armor), Fighter Expertise (Expert Fighter Class DC), Canny Acumen General Feat (Master Will @ 17th level), Skill Increase (Expert Athletics)
12: Master Alchemy Archetype Feat (Advanced Alchemy level increases to 7, for every level beyond 12th Advanced Alchemy level increases by 1), Titan Wrestler General Skill Feat (Disarm, Grapple, Shove, or Trip a creature up to two sizes larger than you, increases to three sizes larger @ Legendary)
13: Haughty Obstinancy Ancestry Feat (if you roll a success on a saving throw against a mental effect that attempts to directly control your actions you critically succeed instead; creatures who fail to Coerce you using Intimidation get a critical failure instead), Skill Increase (Master Athletics), Weapon Legend (Master Simple Weapons and Martial Weapons, Expert Advanced Weapons; Club; Legendary Simple and Martial Weapons of the Club group, Master Advanced Weapons of the Club group)
14: Advanced Concoction Archetype Feat (Combine Elixirs Alchemist Feat (gain the Combine Elixirs activity as a Free Action triggered when you use Quick Alchemy to create an alchemical elixir at least 2 levels lower than Advanced Alchemy level, can spend 2 additional batches to add the effects of a second alchemical elixir to the first, final elixir's level is equal to the highest level among the combined elixirs +2)), Robust Recovery General Skill Feat (when you Treat Disease, Treat Poison, or someone else uses one of those actions on you, increase the circumstance bonus granted on a success to +4, and if the patient succeeds on the saving throw, the patient gets a critical success instead)
15: Ability Boosts (+STR, +DEX, +INT, +WIS), Evasion (Master Reflex saves; success on Reflex save gets critical success instead), Adopted Ancestry General Feat (Dwarf; can take Dwarf Ancestry feats not dependant on physiological features you lack), Greater Weapon Specialization (increase Weapon Specialization damage; 4 for Expert, 6 for Master, 8 for Legendary), Improved Flexibility (when using Combat Flexibility you gain a second feat that can be up to 14th level and can use the first feat to meet prerequisites of second feat), Skill Increase (Legendary Crafting)
16: Advanced Concoction Archetype Feat (Far Lobber Alchemist Feat (alchemical bombs thrown by you have a range increment of 30 feet instead of the normal 20)), Craft Anything General Skill Feat (able to ignore most requirements for crafting items)
17: Unburdened Iron Ancestry Feat (ignore speed reduction from any armor; reduce all other speed reductions by 5-feet (i.e. a -10 foot speed reduction becomes a -5 foot speed reduction)), Armor Mastery (Master Light Armor, Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, and Unarmored Defense), Skill Increase (Legendary Medicine)
18: Advanced Concoction Archetype Feat (Calculated Splash Alchemist Feat (can cause splash damage to become equal to your intelligence modifier instead of the normal amount)), Legendary Medic General Skill Feat (once per day per target, you can spend 1 hour treating that target and attempt to remove a disease or the blinded, deafened, doomed, or drained condition; use the DC of the disease or of the spell or effect that created the condition, if the source is an artifact, above 20th level, or similarly powerful, increase DC by 10)
19: Fleet General Feat (your Speed increases by 5 feet), Skill Increase (Legendary Athletics), Versatile Legend (Legendary Simple Weapons, Martial Weapons, Unarmed Attacks; Master Advanced Weapons and Fighter Class DC)
20: Ability Boosts (+STR, +DEX, +INT, +WIS), Boundless Reprisals Fighter Feat (gain an additional reaction at the start of each enemy's turn), Hefty Hauler General Skill Feat (increase Bulk Capacity by 2)


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Not sure of stupid, but it defies a bit of conventional thinking.

Halfling Rogue. Takes halfling ability to hide behind people. Can use that to snipe. Can later take very sneaky goblin ancestry feat to make it even better.

Couple that with a decent Charisma and he can use Intimidate with the Glare while standing between someone's legs.

Lots of ways to get the flat-footed condition. :D


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The Raven Black wrote:
thistledown wrote:
Note on Barbars dipping Spellcaster. The only spells that require concentration are those with verbal components. Take those out, and you're left with... 13 spells to pick from. That's if you count single-action heal & harm. But hey, you get Jump at 1, Invisibility and Silence at 2, and a few higher level options (3@3, 2@5, 1@6, 2@8)
I think you can also use the Bard spells under the rule on component substitution that replace verbal with playing an instrument (page 303). And the composition spells since they only require using the Performance skill, which does not have the Concentration trait.

I'd ask your GM, the only standard use of the Performance skill is the Perform action, which does have the concentrate trait. I for one would not allow you to do an action that includes aspects of performance without including that trait.

PC: "I play an instrument while raging."

GM: "You can't, perform action has the concentrate trait."

PC: "Aha, I cast a spell by playing an instrument! That doesn't have the concentrate trait, as it isn't an actual Perform action!"

GM: "Get out of my house."


Xenocrat wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
thistledown wrote:
Note on Barbars dipping Spellcaster. The only spells that require concentration are those with verbal components. Take those out, and you're left with... 13 spells to pick from. That's if you count single-action heal & harm. But hey, you get Jump at 1, Invisibility and Silence at 2, and a few higher level options (3@3, 2@5, 1@6, 2@8)
I think you can also use the Bard spells under the rule on component substitution that replace verbal with playing an instrument (page 303). And the composition spells since they only require using the Performance skill, which does not have the Concentration trait.

I'd ask your GM, the only standard use of the Performance skill is the Perform action, which does have the concentrate trait. I for one would not allow you to do an action that includes aspects of performance without including that trait.

PC: "I play an instrument while raging."

GM: "You can't, perform action has the concentrate trait."

PC: "Aha, I cast a spell by playing an instrument! That doesn't have the concentrate trait, as it isn't an actual Perform action!"

GM: "Get out of my house."

"If you’re a bard Casting a Spell from the occult tradition while holding a musical instrument, you can play that instrument to replace any material, somatic, or verbal components the spell requires by using the instrument as a focus component instead. Cast a Spell gains the auditory trait if you make this substitution. Unlike the normal rules for a focus component, you can’t retrieve or stow the instrument when making this substitution." Core Rulebook pg. 303

plus
"A focus is an object that funnels the magical energy of the spell. The spell gains the manipulate trait and requires you to either have a free hand to retrieve the focus listed in the spell or already be holding the focus in your hand. As part of Casting the Spell, you retrieve the focus (if necessary), manipulate it, and can stow it again if you so choose." component substitutions sidebar, Core Rulebook pg. 303

So using a musical instrument has the auditory and manipulate traits only as per the spell casting rules. You can rule otherwise but the actual rules never say that you are making a performance roll or using the perform skill when substituting.

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