Let's talk about some niche, unexpected, weird, or fun builds.


Advice

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Grand Lodge

Xenocrat wrote:
Syries wrote:

Wizards who MC into Druid or Cleric (or other prepared casters in the future) can use Drain Bonded Object to recast their prepared spell slots they gain from the basic/expert/master spellcasting feats from the archetype. Which favored Universalist wizards since they can drain 1/spell level/day rather than just 1/day.

Currently attempting to see if that makes for a decent mystic theurge.

I'm not sure this is true, as Drain Bonded Item action has both the Wizard and Arcane traits. For my part I'd interpret that as saying it only works with spells that are both Arcane and originate from your Wizard class features.

It does specify prepared spell slots which are gained through Wizard Druid or Cleric (currently). It does not specify it has to be from the wizard spell list or any other particular spells- they just need to be prepared. And the Arcane or Wizard traits don’t specify any rules stating they only work with arcane spells or Wizard features.

Spell substitution has the same language, so it should work with cleric spells too- assuming I Learn a Spell to get the cleric spell in a spellbook.

Liberty's Edge

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Yeah, the Wizard Trait is defined in the Glossary. The text is as follows:

"This indicates abilities from the wizard class."

No restrictions on use or anything. The trait is solely for ease of use and future proofing. It does nothing mechanical on its own.

Drain Bonded Object, as noted, has its own specific restrictions, but they merely restrict it to Prepared Spells, not Wizard Spells.


A Wizard who combines Eschew Materials, Conceal Spell, and Silent spell plus Shrink Item to hide his spellbook. Never gives away that he's casting spells if he can help it, and if caught pretends he's a sorcerer. His friends wonder why he always spends a full hour and ten minutes in the garderobe in the mornings, though.

Grand Lodge

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Xenocrat wrote:
A Wizard who combines Eschew Materials, Conceal Spell, and Silent spell plus Shrink Item to hide his spellbook. Never gives away that he's casting spells if he can help it, and if caught pretends he's a sorcerer. His friends wonder why he always spends a full hour and ten minutes in the garderobe in the mornings, though.

To be fair the sorcerer also has to spend an hour prepping in the mornings.

Which is SUPER WEIRD to me, I might add.


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Syries wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
A Wizard who combines Eschew Materials, Conceal Spell, and Silent spell plus Shrink Item to hide his spellbook. Never gives away that he's casting spells if he can help it, and if caught pretends he's a sorcerer. His friends wonder why he always spends a full hour and ten minutes in the garderobe in the mornings, though.

To be fair the sorcerer also has to spend an hour prepping in the mornings.

Which is SUPER WEIRD to me, I might add.

Charisma don't come easy, good sir!


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Castilliano wrote:
Syries wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
A Wizard who combines Eschew Materials, Conceal Spell, and Silent spell plus Shrink Item to hide his spellbook. Never gives away that he's casting spells if he can help it, and if caught pretends he's a sorcerer. His friends wonder why he always spends a full hour and ten minutes in the garderobe in the mornings, though.

To be fair the sorcerer also has to spend an hour prepping in the mornings.

Which is SUPER WEIRD to me, I might add.
Charisma don't come easy, good sir!

lol


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Syries wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
A Wizard who combines Eschew Materials, Conceal Spell, and Silent spell plus Shrink Item to hide his spellbook. Never gives away that he's casting spells if he can help it, and if caught pretends he's a sorcerer. His friends wonder why he always spends a full hour and ten minutes in the garderobe in the mornings, though.

To be fair the sorcerer also has to spend an hour prepping in the mornings.

Which is SUPER WEIRD to me, I might add.

How they spend that hour differs depending on the Sorcerer, of course. A dragon sorcerer has got to count out and polish all her coins, an aberrant sorcerer has to do some light stretches so that his tentacular limbs don't get cramps, an undead sorcerer has to listen to their entire Linkin' Park playlist so that they can be properly edgy... you know how it is.


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Ventnor wrote:
Syries wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
A Wizard who combines Eschew Materials, Conceal Spell, and Silent spell plus Shrink Item to hide his spellbook. Never gives away that he's casting spells if he can help it, and if caught pretends he's a sorcerer. His friends wonder why he always spends a full hour and ten minutes in the garderobe in the mornings, though.

To be fair the sorcerer also has to spend an hour prepping in the mornings.

Which is SUPER WEIRD to me, I might add.
How they spend that hour differs depending on the Sorcerer, of course. A dragon sorcerer has got to count out and polish all her coins, an aberrant sorcerer has to do some light stretches so that his tentacular limbs don't get cramps, an undead sorcerer has to listen to their entire Linkin' Park playlist so that they can be properly edgy... you know how it is.

LOL I'd say it's a straight hour of staring in the mirror...


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Yes, imperial sorcerer is one hour of admiring themselves in the mirror and muttering, "Fabulous..." over and over.


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graystone wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
Syries wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
A Wizard who combines Eschew Materials, Conceal Spell, and Silent spell plus Shrink Item to hide his spellbook. Never gives away that he's casting spells if he can help it, and if caught pretends he's a sorcerer. His friends wonder why he always spends a full hour and ten minutes in the garderobe in the mornings, though.

To be fair the sorcerer also has to spend an hour prepping in the mornings.

Which is SUPER WEIRD to me, I might add.
How they spend that hour differs depending on the Sorcerer, of course. A dragon sorcerer has got to count out and polish all her coins, an aberrant sorcerer has to do some light stretches so that his tentacular limbs don't get cramps, an undead sorcerer has to listen to their entire Linkin' Park playlist so that they can be properly edgy... you know how it is.
LOL I'd say it's a straight hour of staring in the mirror...

It's an hour of repeating "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me."


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Ventnor wrote:
Syries wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
A Wizard who combines Eschew Materials, Conceal Spell, and Silent spell plus Shrink Item to hide his spellbook. Never gives away that he's casting spells if he can help it, and if caught pretends he's a sorcerer. His friends wonder why he always spends a full hour and ten minutes in the garderobe in the mornings, though.

To be fair the sorcerer also has to spend an hour prepping in the mornings.

Which is SUPER WEIRD to me, I might add.
How they spend that hour differs depending on the Sorcerer, of course. A dragon sorcerer has got to count out and polish all her coins, an aberrant sorcerer has to do some light stretches so that his tentacular limbs don't get cramps, an undead sorcerer has to listen to their entire Linkin' Park playlist so that they can be properly edgy... you know how it is.

And in the end, it doesn't even matter.


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If you want to be really good at hunting dragons, be a gnome ranger. Use your first level ancestry feat to get Gnome Obsession, which you can use to get Dragon Lore (and according to some backgrounds in the Age of Ashes character guide, Dragon Lore is totally a thing!). It might not be the most powerful mechanically, but get the Outwit Hunter's Edge to improve your ability to recall information about enemies (like dragons). At level 4, pick up Favored Enemy and choose "Dragons."

It's simple, but you should be able to know just about everything about the dragons you're fighting.


I was imagining this while reading some other posts, but a Bard Mime who uses "House of Illusory Walls" to make his mime boxes real, and thus he IS actually stuck in a box! You can totally go all Loony Toons on people with that. Also a tanky Monk with high Con, Mountain Stance, Ironblood Stance, Fuse Stance feat, and some Ki power stuff for Wholeness of Body, and maybe some Intimidation to mock foes who can't harm him! Totally no-sells the boss's ultimate attack, and then punches him in the schnoz.


Been a long time since I've posted in this thread, but what the hey. I've been listening to some history podcasts, and the idea of a character based off of a steppe nomad sounds cool. And of course, the most iconic kind of warriors that came from the steppes were horse archers.

So, this character is going to be a Ranger, obviously. They're also going to be a human, because to really get the build going, you need two level 1 ranger feats: Animal Companion, for your horse, and Hunted Shot, to make you a good archer.

Really, we've already realized the basic character concept already, but let's keep going. Quick Draw will be our level 2 Ranger feat, although nabbing a dedication this level wouldn't hurt. Companion's Cry at level 4 will let our Ranger command their horse to stride 3 times, which still leaves 1 action left for two attacked with Hunted Shot. And at Level 6, we get a mature animal companion. Interestingly enough, the Horse's support benefit applies to Ranged Strikes as well as Melee Strikes, which works out well for our Horse archer.

I could go on, but I won't. At any rate, I think the base for this kind of character is pretty solid.

Grand Lodge

Funnily enough I had been toying with a similar build of Ranger, though I do have a hard time justifying Companion's Cry with a horse since you can't have it Support and Strike in the same turn. But you can move pretty far that way at least.


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My favourite character concept so far in this edition is a barbarian specialised into using intimidation to apply the frightened condition, bonus points if she is a goblin with the wolf instinct so that she is a tiny, screaming ball of pure rage that is running around biting people in the throat (like the bunny in Monty Python).


Tender Tendrils wrote:
My favourite character concept so far in this edition is a barbarian specialised into using intimidation to apply the frightened condition, bonus points if she is a goblin with the wolf instinct so that she is a tiny, screaming ball of pure rage that is running around biting people in the throat (like the bunny in Monty Python).

How did you come to terms with the fact that intimidation to demoralize only lasts one round and that the target is immune for 10 minutes after that? If you're really lucky it last 2 rounds but still can't be repeated.


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Claxon wrote:
Tender Tendrils wrote:
My favourite character concept so far in this edition is a barbarian specialised into using intimidation to apply the frightened condition, bonus points if she is a goblin with the wolf instinct so that she is a tiny, screaming ball of pure rage that is running around biting people in the throat (like the bunny in Monty Python).
How did you come to terms with the fact that intimidation to demoralize only lasts one round and that the target is immune for 10 minutes after that? If you're really lucky it last 2 rounds but still can't be repeated.

Presumably the same way any other barbarian would. By hitting it until it dies.

Then intimidate the next creature.

Depending on the initiative, your whole party can get +1 to hit. That is powerful enough as is.


Mellored wrote:
Claxon wrote:
Tender Tendrils wrote:
My favourite character concept so far in this edition is a barbarian specialised into using intimidation to apply the frightened condition, bonus points if she is a goblin with the wolf instinct so that she is a tiny, screaming ball of pure rage that is running around biting people in the throat (like the bunny in Monty Python).
How did you come to terms with the fact that intimidation to demoralize only lasts one round and that the target is immune for 10 minutes after that? If you're really lucky it last 2 rounds but still can't be repeated.

Presumably the same way any other barbarian would. By hitting it until it dies.

Then intimidate the next creature.

Depending on the initiative, your whole party can get +1 to hit. That is powerful enough as is.

Pretty much. A properly built barbarian can also do it to every enemy in the combat using one action (which is a separate roll for each one, so a good chance of landing frightened 2 on a few of them) and can eventually cause enemies to flee.

and it plays well with a barbarians crit related class abilities as the reduction to enemy AC increases the likelihood of critical hits.


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The Doorstopper

1) be a primal caster
2) Monk dedication at lvl 2
3) Mountain Stance at lvl 4

You select all the "XXX Form" shapeshifting spells. In combat, you change shape and activate Mountain Stance for the +4 status bonus to AC. XXX Forms AC is a fixed number so the DEX cap does nothing. Now you have excellent AC but can't do anything.

At level 5 with Insect Form you have AC 27. A Champion in Full Plate and a shield (+2) has AC 25.
At level 11 with Elemental Form you have AC 34, the same as our Champion now with +1 armor. And at level 19 with Nature Incarnate you have AC 48 with the Champion with +2 armor having AC 47.

Pretty hard to hit but you can't attack, cast spells and only with Dragon Form do you have hands to even make maneuvers. You are the mighty Doorstopper :)


masda_gib wrote:

The Doorstopper

1) be a primal caster
2) Monk dedication at lvl 2
3) Mountain Stance at lvl 4

You select all the "XXX Form" shapeshifting spells. In combat, you change shape and activate Mountain Stance for the +4 status bonus to AC. XXX Forms AC is a fixed number so the DEX cap does nothing. Now you have excellent AC but can't do anything.

At level 5 with Insect Form you have AC 27. A Champion in Full Plate and a shield (+2) has AC 25.
At level 11 with Elemental Form you have AC 34, the same as our Champion now with +1 armor. And at level 19 with Nature Incarnate you have AC 48 with the Champion with +2 armor having AC 47.

Pretty hard to hit but you can't attack, cast spells and only with Dragon Form do you have hands to even make maneuvers. You are the mighty Doorstopper :)

Its amusing with Pest Form. Pest Form has no "obligatory" natural attacks, so you are free to use the full powered Mountain Style Strikes, with the AC boosts.

I'm not recommending that you do this, as pest form sucks on account of physical vulnerability, but the tiny rat that does xd8 + str damage and has a +4 status bonus to AC is amusing.

prototype00


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prototype00 wrote:
masda_gib wrote:

The Doorstopper

1) be a primal caster
2) Monk dedication at lvl 2
3) Mountain Stance at lvl 4

You select all the "XXX Form" shapeshifting spells. In combat, you change shape and activate Mountain Stance for the +4 status bonus to AC. XXX Forms AC is a fixed number so the DEX cap does nothing. Now you have excellent AC but can't do anything.

At level 5 with Insect Form you have AC 27. A Champion in Full Plate and a shield (+2) has AC 25.
At level 11 with Elemental Form you have AC 34, the same as our Champion now with +1 armor. And at level 19 with Nature Incarnate you have AC 48 with the Champion with +2 armor having AC 47.

Pretty hard to hit but you can't attack, cast spells and only with Dragon Form do you have hands to even make maneuvers. You are the mighty Doorstopper :)

Its amusing with Pest Form. Pest Form has no "obligatory" natural attacks, so you are free to use the full powered Mountain Style Strikes, with the AC boosts.

I'm not recommending that you do this, as pest form sucks on account of physical vulnerability, but the tiny rat that does xd8 + str damage and has a +4 status bonus to AC is amusing.

prototype00

But if say you were going up against a spellcaster with no physical attacks, and perhaps you looked like said spellcaster's familiar or animal companion. Rumors are there are assassins being dreamed up right now to use such tactics.

"Why is your raven starting to act like it's a rock?"
"Hah, hah. A roc. Oh wait, or did you mean rock as in mountain? Run!"

Grand Lodge

I'm a bit late to this party but I want to point out that battle form spells and Mountain Stance are incompatible.

You cannot attack while in Mountain Stance and in a battle form because both make it so you can only make certain types of strikes. For Mountain Stance it's ONLY the falling stone unarmed attacks and for the battle forms it's ONLY the various bites/claws/etc you gain from that form.


Can you cast spells in mountain stance?


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Syries wrote:

I'm a bit late to this party but I want to point out that battle form spells and Mountain Stance are incompatible.

You cannot attack while in Mountain Stance and in a battle form because both make it so you can only make certain types of strikes. For Mountain Stance it's ONLY the falling stone unarmed attacks and for the battle forms it's ONLY the various bites/claws/etc you gain from that form.

That... was the "point" of my build. That's why I called it the Doorstopper and wrote that you can't do anything except have a high AC. :)


Syries wrote:

I'm a bit late to this party but I want to point out that battle form spells and Mountain Stance are incompatible.

You cannot attack while in Mountain Stance and in a battle form because both make it so you can only make certain types of strikes. For Mountain Stance it's ONLY the falling stone unarmed attacks and for the battle forms it's ONLY the various bites/claws/etc you gain from that form.

Most battle forms do limit the Strikes. The initial post that triggered this chain of comments recognizes that, speculating about a PC w/ zero strikes, but tons of defense.

Pest Form doesn't limit Strikes, likely because it may be the only battle form that doesn't grant a new Strike. So unless you can find a rule re: all battle forms, Pest Form works fine with Mountain Stance.
Which makes it a great spell for humorous shenanigans.
The weakness to physical damage makes the combo untenable in normal play, but not all situations are normal.

Puksone: You can cast spells in Mountain Stance. They can even have the attack trait. What they can't do is give you a usable Strike, since your Strikes are limited. Also, it wouldn't stack w/ this Pest Form/Mt. Stance wacky combo because polymorph spells cut off spellcasting (though arguments have been made that there are exceptions).


Oh my god the nunchaku barbarian.


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Goblin with Boaster's Challenge and Scalding Spit from LOCG makes for the best battle rapper. Light yourself on fire, brag about how you are the best, and literally spit fire.


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Claxon wrote:
Tender Tendrils wrote:
My favourite character concept so far in this edition is a barbarian specialised into using intimidation to apply the frightened condition, bonus points if she is a goblin with the wolf instinct so that she is a tiny, screaming ball of pure rage that is running around biting people in the throat (like the bunny in Monty Python).

How did you come to terms with the fact that intimidation to demoralize only lasts one round and that the target is immune for 10 minutes after that? If you're really lucky it last 2 rounds but still can't be repeated.

We have a good answer to this question now: be a Lizardfolk. Frilled heritage gives you a Stride+Demoralize action that inflicts Frightened 2 on a success, which makes the whole routine far more viable.


Arachnofiend wrote:
Claxon wrote:
Tender Tendrils wrote:
My favourite character concept so far in this edition is a barbarian specialised into using intimidation to apply the frightened condition, bonus points if she is a goblin with the wolf instinct so that she is a tiny, screaming ball of pure rage that is running around biting people in the throat (like the bunny in Monty Python).

How did you come to terms with the fact that intimidation to demoralize only lasts one round and that the target is immune for 10 minutes after that? If you're really lucky it last 2 rounds but still can't be repeated.

We have a good answer to this question now: be a Lizardfolk. Frilled heritage gives you a Stride+Demoralize action that inflicts Frightened 2 on a success, which makes the whole routine far more viable.

Yeeess more support for the intimidation build makes me very happy.


Arachnofiend wrote:
Claxon wrote:
Tender Tendrils wrote:
My favourite character concept so far in this edition is a barbarian specialised into using intimidation to apply the frightened condition, bonus points if she is a goblin with the wolf instinct so that she is a tiny, screaming ball of pure rage that is running around biting people in the throat (like the bunny in Monty Python).

How did you come to terms with the fact that intimidation to demoralize only lasts one round and that the target is immune for 10 minutes after that? If you're really lucky it last 2 rounds but still can't be repeated.

We have a good answer to this question now: be a Lizardfolk. Frilled heritage gives you a Stride+Demoralize action that inflicts Frightened 2 on a success, which makes the whole routine far more viable.

Hmm, I wonder if there is any synergy between this and Dragon Style? (Specifically Dragon Roar)

Frilled Dragon Style?

prototype00


shroudb wrote:

Flying Hammers:

Thrown weapons Paladin.
<...>
You can be of any Ancestry you like, you don't need a specific one

I can't find a way to use this build as a dwarf (to keep at least 16 dex and 14 in Str and Cha) which is quite frustrating as to me this is THE dwarven paladin I've always wanted to play!

I could do a lizardfolk with a trident but it's not supported in PFS yet.
ARGH.


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The Halloween special.

A (Pumpkin) gourd headed leshy ranger with the farm hand background.

Take the precision edge and a bird companion for your first feat.

Now you are a pumping headed scythe-weilding scarecrow that attacks people with a 'dire-crow'

The damage is much better than you'd think, and the persistent bleed and miss chances you hand out are


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Paradozen wrote:
Goblin with Boaster's Challenge and Scalding Spit from LOCG makes for the best battle rapper. Light yourself on fire, brag about how you are the best, and literally spit fire.

One of my players for PF1 proposed a beat boxer oread bard named Rock Steady. I think they would make an awesome pair (once oread is released of course).


Gnome Fighter, Lunge, Advantageous Assault, Whip, Flickmace, Athletics Assurance....

Trip, Hit, Move.

You can choose 15ft so you hit them when they approach you, or 10ft to hit them when they stand up.

Forgot the Cantrip as an Ancestry thing, if they decide to keep their range.


Inkfist wrote:

The Halloween special.

A (Pumpkin) gourd headed leshy ranger with the farm hand background.

Take the precision edge and a bird companion for your first feat.

Now you are a pumping headed scythe-weilding scarecrow that attacks people with a 'dire-crow'

The damage is much better than you'd think, and the persistent bleed and miss chances you hand out are

Too late for this year, but I'm stealing this for the antagonist for a halloween 1-shot next year. Leshy feats mesh with it so well too. Ritual Reversion makes for a great ambush in a pumpkin patch, Shadow of the Wild explains why the PCs won't be able to track down whatever has been killing in the woods, and Grasping Reach is just spooky.


Paradozen wrote:
Inkfist wrote:

The Halloween special.

A (Pumpkin) gourd headed leshy ranger with the farm hand background.

Take the precision edge and a bird companion for your first feat.

Now you are a pumping headed scythe-weilding scarecrow that attacks people with a 'dire-crow'

The damage is much better than you'd think, and the persistent bleed and miss chances you hand out are

Too late for this year, but I'm stealing this for the antagonist for a halloween 1-shot next year. Leshy feats mesh with it so well too. Ritual Reversion makes for a great ambush in a pumpkin patch, Shadow of the Wild explains why the PCs won't be able to track down whatever has been killing in the woods, and Grasping Reach is just spooky.

Sure is. I've slapped it on my own Halloween leshy, a giant instinct barb. I was thinking of giving them Lucky Keepsake for that too-tough-to-die feel that many horror creatures have, but I just love the idea of a pumpkin suddenly blossoming into a cackling, scythe-wielding giant too much not to take that idea now.

Can't get a crow going with barb, sadly, though I guess I could multiclass ranger or druid and try to pick it up if it doesn't devour too many feats.


A champion who goes all in on shields, with Everstand Stance at level 1, Sentry Dedication at level 2 (for Reactive Shield), and Divine Ally Shield at Level 3 would be hard to hurt.

Sentry Dedication also increases trained Athletics to Expert, so at level 3 you could be an expert in Athletics and Intimidation.

I imagine a Tailed Goblin Redeemer, hiding behind a tower shield, tripping opponents, and screaming about the redeeming love of Shelyn. Or just crawling up a wall with athletics and the bonuses from Tailed Goblin, and turtling.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Sapient wrote:
Everstand Stance also increases trained Athletics to Expert, so at level 3 you could be an expert in Athletics and Intimidation.

Huh? I'm not seeing that mentioned anywhere in the feat.


Ravingdork wrote:
Sapient wrote:
Everstand Stance also increases trained Athletics to Expert, so at level 3 you could be an expert in Athletics and Intimidation.
Huh? I'm not seeing that mentioned anywhere in the feat.

Sorry, I meant Sentry Dedication, not Everstand Stance. Edited my post to reflect that.

Grand Lodge

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The helicopter pumpkin:

Gourd leshy monk with cat fall skill feat, Seedpods and leshy glide ancestry feats, and Student of Perfection+ Perfect Ki Adept(Unfolding Wind Rush) archetype feats.

At the start of combat launch yourself in the air with Unfolding Wind Rush, then use Leshy Glide to slowly fall and move around the battlefield while using Flurry of Blows with your seedpods


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Syries wrote:

The helicopter pumpkin:

Gourd leshy monk with cat fall skill feat, Seedpods and leshy glide ancestry feats, and Student of Perfection+ Perfect Ki Adept(Unfolding Wind Rush) archetype feats.

At the start of combat launch yourself in the air with Unfolding Wind Rush, then use Leshy Glide to slowly fall and move around the battlefield while using Flurry of Blows with your seedpods

I like this, but would point out that the pumpkin part is entirely flavor there, and leaf leshy would obviously remove the need for cat fall. Leaf leshy also won't take falling damage if knocked out while in the air.

And as an alternative to a feat locked behind a regional archetype: Abundant step. Just teleport your speed straight up and glide down. It comes online at the same level (6), and you'll get more height because you're not restricted to gaining altitude at a 45° angle like Unfolding Wind Rush.

Now I need to think of a way to get that kind of aerial height with an alchemist, and flavor it as a fighter-bomber (or just use this monk build and add MC alchemist). Leaper' s elixir isn't really helpful until the greater version at level 7 and kinda sucks compared to a potion of jump. Alchemist MC to Wizard probably works, just pick up jump at level 4 and dimension door/legit flight whenever that comes online. I hate to force a multiclass for it, though. It's hard to get aerial height early, which is when this build is coolest (compared to later levels when flight is more common).


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According to the definitions of "strike," this appears legal though it makes no sense.

Rage Sniper - The idea is to do the absolute most damage you can before battle begins (or when it begins as well).

You can start Barbarian or Ranger and archetype into the other. This build is done at Level 4 (I like low level ideas).

Feats: Crossbow Ace (L1 Ranger) and Furious Finish (L2 Barbarian). That's it.

1d12+2 (xbow ace) + 10 (furious finish) + 1d8 (hunter's edge precision) = 14-32 dmg with an average of 23. At L4, that's large. If your target is unaware, you can Hunt them for free, then on the attacking round you 1) Rage, 2) Fire your loaded xbow, 3) Free

Furious Finish is the sketchy option. Why would a rage feat let you do +10 damage on a crossbow shot? But it does. It says, "Make a Strike." It doesn't give any of the "melee/unarmed" restrictions that Rage gives in order to qualify for its +2 damage.

You fatigue and end your rage immediately, but if you pick up the L2 Barbarian feat Second Wind, you can spend your 3rd action re-raging.

Also, if your prey isn't aware, you get a +2 flat footed for a higher chance to crit for 46 average damage. Later on, you can pick up Rogue to add sneak attack damage and poison.


Second Wind doesn't work. It lets you bypass the 1 minute timer between rages but Rage still requires that you're not fatigued in order to activate it and Furious Finish makes you fatigued.


Yeah, you're right about Second Wind. Oh well. Fatigued is only a -1, and hopefully your prey got 1-shot.

What about Furious Finish? Anyone hear any errata or rules against it being used like this?


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As you said, Furious Finish only requires a Strike action. Nothing about melee or ranged.

In general Furious Finish looks a lot better for MC Barbs than full Barbarians, since their rage never scales anyways.


I saw the Grasping Reach feat and was inspired to come up with the best use for it.

I'd go with a Greatpick Fighter. The main advantage of this feat is to get weapon traits that don't normally show up on reach weapons - Fatal has an amusing interaction where if it procs you ignore the penalty from Grasping Reach, since your damage dice gets ramped up to 1d12 regardless.

So all you do is normal crit fishing Fighter things, except you have the hardest hitting reach weapon possible. That ain't a bad use of an action at the start of combat.


Arachnofiend wrote:

I saw the Grasping Reach feat and was inspired to come up with the best use for it.

I'd go with a Greatpick Fighter. The main advantage of this feat is to get weapon traits that don't normally show up on reach weapons - Fatal has an amusing interaction where if it procs you ignore the penalty from Grasping Reach, since your damage dice gets ramped up to 1d12 regardless.

So all you do is normal crit fishing Fighter things, except you have the hardest hitting reach weapon possible. That ain't a bad use of an action at the start of combat.

I'd also apply the penalty to the die type when Fatal activates, so they'd be d10s. Fatal doesn't mention avoiding penalties to die type.

Loopholes like that go against PF2 design principles.
(And you'd have poor damage w/o crits.)

I'd go with a maul. Any creature taking an AoO might be knocked prone, meaning they'd have to stand and if they don't have reach, they can't attack you with their third action. And w/ Combat Reflexes, you could smack them standing too. It'd be a die higher than the Gnome Flickmace and its feat can apply to other weapons too.


Castilliano wrote:


I'd go with a maul. Any creature taking an AoO might be knocked prone, meaning they'd have to stand and if they don't have reach, they can't attack you with their third action. And w/ Combat Reflexes, you could smack them standing too. It'd be a die higher than the Gnome Flickmace and its feat can apply to other weapons too.

I think the AoO triggers when they leave a square you threaten, which would make them go prone in the square adjacent to you rather than stopping in place at reach.


BellyBeard wrote:
Castilliano wrote:


I'd go with a maul. Any creature taking an AoO might be knocked prone, meaning they'd have to stand and if they don't have reach, they can't attack you with their third action. And w/ Combat Reflexes, you could smack them standing too. It'd be a die higher than the Gnome Flickmace and its feat can apply to other weapons too.
I think the AoO triggers when they leave a square you threaten, which would make them go prone in the square adjacent to you rather than stopping in place at reach.

You may be right given the different timing in PF2, though I forget the specifics. Ah well.

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