Let's talk about some niche, unexpected, weird, or fun builds.


Advice

251 to 300 of 401 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | next > last >>

1 person marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
So how do "most" people suggest that people behind the character take cover then as it's states they can and they don't get to "move it around like any other shield"? DO they randomly go in and out of cover depending on what attack you're focusing on?

Other creatures would take cover behind the player providing cover with a tower shield the same way they would take cover behind an inert pillar?

If an enemy walks around the player with the shield, then the second character wouldn't have cover any more. But the player with the shield could readjust the shield to maintain cover.

It does get a bit weird when there are flanking enemies though. Not sure how to handle that. But that is getting into a mechanics vs. reality argument - which I hate to get into.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

I think most of the confusion for the tower shield thing comes from using PF1 as a frame of reference.

If there was a feat or spell that just said 'you gain cover' against some sort of attack, there wouldn't really be any quibble about how to rationalize it in terms of positioning. It's just specific vs general and I think that applies to tower shields too. The rules for shields say you can use take cover with a tower shield so.. you can. Positioning doesn't matter because this is a specific rule.


breithauptclan wrote:
Other creatures would take cover behind the player providing cover with a tower shield the same way they would take cover behind an inert pillar?

That's fine if the shield is blocking forward... What if the person with the shield takes cover from something on one side? Cover is done by making a line from the middle of the targets square to the enemies square: so if the shield is turned to the side, it doesn't provide cover to the front for someone behind the user. Think a bow firing from the front at the second person and another at the user from the side.

breithauptclan wrote:
If an enemy walks around the player with the shield, then the second character wouldn't have cover any more. But the player with the shield could readjust the shield to maintain cover.

He can switch the cover to protect both himself AND every other creature that takes cover?

breithauptclan wrote:
It does get a bit weird when there are flanking enemies though. Not sure how to handle that. But that is getting into a mechanics vs. reality argument - which I hate to get into.

Some seem to see it as if the tower shield user is a spinning top and their whole square equals a pillar for cover. If that's the idea, fine but the text sure didn't read that way to me.

Squiggit wrote:
I think most of the confusion for the tower shield thing comes from using PF1 as a frame of reference.

Not for me at least: it was the fact that others can use the shield as cover too that made me come to that conclusion.

Squiggit wrote:
If there was a feat or spell that just said 'you gain cover' against some sort of attack, there wouldn't really be any quibble about how to rationalize it in terms of positioning.

This leads to situations where someone standing to the side of the user gets the cover while being attacked from range from the front or even if the second person is standing in front because positioning doesn't matter... It's a super odd visual to say the very least.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
graystone wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:
Other creatures would take cover behind the player providing cover with a tower shield the same way they would take cover behind an inert pillar?
That's fine if the shield is blocking forward... What if the person with the shield takes cover from something on one side? Cover is done by making a line from the middle of the targets square to the enemies square: so if the shield is turned to the side, it doesn't provide cover to the front for someone behind the user. Think a bow firing from the front at the second person and another at the user from the side.

This doesn't follow. Either a line from the target to the enemy passes through the tower shield wielder (in which case the target has cover) or it does not (in which case no cover).

And no matter how you position target, enemy, and tower shield wielder, there will always be a "facing" the tower shield wielder could assume such that the cover makes logical sense, if the line passes them.

Even if you assume that there is some kind of "shield facing" hidden in the rules... please show me where it costs any kind of action to change your facing? So the person holding the tower shield can just turn to face each attack as it comes.

The only place I might rule differently is if two people readied actions to attack simultaneously from opposite sides, and that sounds like a great way to creatively get around the benefits of a tower shield through clever play.

Overall, it's no weirder than the fact that it's technically possible to provide flanking in eight directions simultaneously against eight different enemies (or more, if you have reach).


MaxAstro wrote:
Either a line from the target to the enemy passes through the tower shield wielder (in which case the target has cover) or it does not (in which case no cover).

It doesn't say that: the SHIELD can be used for cover, not the user. If at any point it said the USER granted cover, I wouldn't have an issue.

"and other creatures can Take Cover as normal using the cover from your shield)" Note FROM YOUR SHIELD not from you, your square or anything else: JUST the shield. SO if the user can move it, then others lose and gain cover. Or is the user expected to react to any attack to not only themselves but each and every other creature that could take cover from it. Also note that nothing prevents enemies from taking cover either, so the user is also forced to protect them as well.

MaxAstro wrote:
Even if you assume that there is some kind of "shield facing" hidden in the rules... please show me where it costs any kind of action to change your facing?

AS I pointed out, the other people that are allowed to use it for cover don't also get a reaction to the shield users reaction to change position to keep their cover.


13 people marked this as a favorite.

This shield derail is boring and should be in another thread. Let's talk about weird builds!

So, here's a simple but good one. Be a bard with the Polymath Muse. At first level, you get the Versatile Performance feat, which lets you, among other things, use Intimidate to demoralize enemies and qualify for Intimidation skill feats based on performance. So let's see how high we can jack up that performance score by level 20!

We're going to be maximizing Charisma all the way, so by level 20 that's 22. Let's assume we get our hands on a Circlet of Persuasion, which boosts it up to 24, which gives us a +7 bonus to start.

We will, of course, be making Performance a legendary skill. At level 20, that's +28.

The best item bonus we can get to Performance is by consuming a Major Silvertongue Mutagen, which gets us another +4 for an hour.

We can also get another +2 Circumstance bonus from feats. Virtuosic Performer definitely works, Intimidating Prowess may work or may not. For our build here, let's assume it does, if only because it's funnier that way (and lets the trick work with any kind of performance you want, including something like Interpretive Dance).

We can also use one of our level 9 bard spells to cast Heroism, which gives use +3 to our skill checks and other stuff.

So let's add all that up! 7 + 28 + 4 + 2 + 3 = +44 when rolling Performance to demoralize after getting all the right buffs.

But let's add in a few more of those Intimidation feats that Versatile Performance lets us nab. Intimidating Glare lets us demoralize without needing to use sounds, Battle Cry lets us demoralize an enemy as a free action at the start of a battle, and Terrified Retreat can cause lower-level enemies to just flee outright after you demoralize them.

So, here's what I'm thinking happens. In the middle of the dungeon, your team comes upon a group of foes. As you lock eyes with your opponent, you assume the pose. A moment later, the enemy decides they want nothing to do with you and runs.

So basically, what I'm saying is you should spend a lot of money and skill training to make your character a walking Jojo reference.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
graystone wrote:
MaxAstro wrote:
Even if you assume that there is some kind of "shield facing" hidden in the rules... please show me where it costs any kind of action to change your facing?
AS I pointed out, the other people that are allowed to use it for cover don't also get a reaction to the shield users reaction to change position to keep their cover.

Last thing I will say on this issue, because this is derailing the thread but I want to give one more try to be understood.

Why does the person taking cover need to move at all? As I said:

MaxAstro wrote:
And no matter how you position target, enemy, and tower shield wielder, there will always be a "facing" the tower shield wielder could assume such that the cover makes logical sense, if the line passes them.

The person taking cover doesn't need to move or change their facing. Literally, give me any picture of a target, tower shield wielder, and enemy - such that a line from the enemy to the target passes through the tower shield wielder - and I can show you how the tower shield wielder can position their shield so that the shield reasonably provides cover to the target.

So as long as the person wielding the shield can change their facing at will (which you seem to have accepted), they can provide cover to anyone Taking Cover with their shield, so long as an enemy attack passes through their space.

-----

This has inspired me for a silly build though - it looks like the restriction on not being able to bash with tower shields has been lifted. Which means Door Squad is now viable. Dual wielding bossed tower shields FTW. :D Dwarven fighter for max tankyness and dual wield feats, plus you can ignore the speed penalty from the tower shields.


MaxAstro wrote:


This has inspired me for a silly build though - it looks like the restriction on not being able to bash with tower shields has been lifted. Which means Door Squad is now viable. Dual wielding bossed tower shields FTW. :D Dwarven fighter for max tankyness and dual wield feats, plus you can ignore the speed penalty from the tower shields.

Unburdened Iron allows you to ignore all speed penalties from armor, and the first -5ft of any one other speed penalty. Shields are not armor, so you can only ignore the penalty from one tower shield. Door Squad will have to settle for one tower shield each.


graystone wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
The only mechanical benefit of the instrument bard beyond getting rid of material components (a minor benefit that trades one hand free for no hands free)
And trading the concentration trait for manipulate and auditory.

That in theory is a pretty huge change for barbarians as rage prevents concentration actions unless you spend an action to momentarily control your rage.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
kaid wrote:
graystone wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
The only mechanical benefit of the instrument bard beyond getting rid of material components (a minor benefit that trades one hand free for no hands free)
And trading the concentration trait for manipulate and auditory.
That in theory is a pretty huge change for barbarians as rage prevents concentration actions unless you spend an action to momentarily control your rage.

He was yanking my chain because we were disputing exactly that point. Mark Seifter subsequently shut down the idea that casting a verbal component with an instrument removes the concentration trait.


Ventnor wrote:

This shield derail is boring and should be in another thread. Let's talk about weird builds!

So, here's a simple but good one. Be a bard with the Polymath Muse. At first level, you get the Versatile Performance feat, which lets you, among other things, use Intimidate to demoralize enemies and qualify for Intimidation skill feats based on performance. So let's see how high we can jack up that performance score by level 20!

We're going to be maximizing Charisma all the way, so by level 20 that's 22. Let's assume we get our hands on a Circlet of Persuasion, which boosts it up to 24, which gives us a +7 bonus to start.

We will, of course, be making Performance a legendary skill. At level 20, that's +28.

The best item bonus we can get to Performance is by consuming a Major Silvertongue Mutagen, which gets us another +4 for an hour.

We can also get another +2 Circumstance bonus from feats. Virtuosic Performer definitely works, Intimidating Prowess may work or may not. For our build here, let's assume it does, if only because it's funnier that way (and lets the trick work with any kind of performance you want, including something like Interpretive Dance).

We can also use one of our level 9 bard spells to cast Heroism, which gives use +3 to our skill checks and other stuff.

So let's add all that up! 7 + 28 + 4 + 2 + 3 = +44 when rolling Performance to demoralize after getting all the right buffs.

But let's add in a few more of those Intimidation feats that Versatile Performance lets us nab. Intimidating Glare lets us demoralize without needing to use sounds, Battle Cry lets us demoralize an enemy as a free action at the start of a battle, and Terrified Retreat can cause lower-level enemies to just flee outright after you demoralize them.

So, here's what I'm thinking happens. In the middle of the dungeon, your team comes upon a group of foes. As you lock eyes with your opponent, you assume the pose. A moment later, the enemy decides they want nothing to do with you and runs.

So...

I do love a lot of the intimidation feats. Like the intimidating glare so you can go full THE ROCK and give a smoldering look to make your opponents cower in terror. Or the option of scare to death. You could literally go all blue steel and literally cause an opponent to keel over dead from the awesomeness of you.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Sadly you can’t combine Intimidating Glare and Scare to Death. The former affects demoralize actions, which the latter is not.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Xenocrat wrote:
Sadly you can’t combine Intimidating Glare and Scare to Death. The former affects demoralize actions, which the latter is not.

From scare to death it does not look like you need to combine them it just works like that anyway. The keywords of the ability are DeathEmotionFearGeneralIncapacitationSkill You can frighten foes so much, they might die. Attempt an Intimidation check against the Will DC of a living creature within 30 feet of you that you sense or observe and who can sense or observe you.

It does list penalties if the target does not understand your language but none of the keywords indicate an audible component to it. Maybe you need to give the rock eyebrow and then yell do you know what the rock is cooking to make them drop dead or not.


10 people marked this as a favorite.

The other fun option would be the mime of TERROR option where you use mime as your performance and use that for your demoralize checks. OMG HE IS GETTING OUT OF HIS INVISIBLE BOX RUN!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

The Desperate Cracker

Be a wizard with high CON, Toughness, False Life and maybe Fighter dedication and the HP feats.

At high levels, get (or craft) some of those staves that you can crack to make them explode. When you prepare them, use the option to add additional charges.

At level 20, you can give 20 charges to a staff. A staff of the magi does 2d10 force damage per charge when cracked - averaging 220 damage... and 440 for you. You might survive when you roll low.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Fighter with a Bastard Sword and Shortsword is pretty generic at first glance, but may be the best way to take advantage of the Two-Hand property. For the most part you're a normal TWF fighter, you want Double Slice and such. But you also want Power Attack (pick it up with Natural Ambition) and the piece that pulls it all together, Revealing Stab.

Revealing Stab is a pretty good feat - it's a great counter to blur and invisibility available exclusively to Fighters. Problem with it is that it requires you to have a piercing weapon you're willing to give up; normally that's a hard pill to swallow, but with this build you can be an optimal TWF Fighter the majority of the time and then just swap into a pretty good 2H Fighter build when fighting concealed enemies. You'd likely want to find a place to pick up Dual-Handed Assault so you can make your chunky d12 bastard sword strike on the same turn you take away the enemy's concealment.


14 people marked this as a favorite.

Way of the Angry Frog:

Animal Barbarian, get Animal Skin and Animal Form for 15' reach (frog form), as well as sudden leap. Multiclass Monk for Dancing Leaf and Stand Still. Turn into a frog, leap like a frog, throw out that tongue and lock people down. Get Battle Cry and a Gorget of the Primal Roar to unleash 2 terrifying croaks each battle. Big angry frog tank.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Paradozen wrote:

Way of the Angry Frog:

Animal Barbarian, get Animal Skin and Animal Form for 15' reach (frog form), as well as sudden leap. Multiclass Monk for Dancing Leaf and Stand Still. Turn into a frog, leap like a frog, throw out that tongue and lock people down. Get Battle Cry and a Gorget of the Primal Roar to unleash 2 terrifying croaks each battle. Big angry frog tank.

Later on, multiclass Fighter to get Sudden Leap, so that you can attack while you jump.


I don't know exactly how I'd build this, but I really want to make a Final Fantasy-style Dragoon (EDIT: for those who don't know, a FF-style Dragoon is a lance fighter who specializes in jumping really high into the air, then skewering enemies with a plunging attack). I'd probably go with Goblin, since the Unbreakable Goblin ancestry lets you take half the normal fall damage. This is a good option until you become legendary in Acrobatics and Catfall makes you stop taking falling damage at all.

I'm not sure what class would be best to take, or what feats would work best. I'm thinking, though, that either Monk, Wizard or Sorcerer would be good choices. Monk gives you Focus Spells that let you gain fly speeds, as do Wizards and Sorcerers with spells. Spells also has the advantage of getting you Dimension Door, which lets you teleport anywhere you can see within 120ft and conveniently says nothing about stopping you from teleporting straight up. Multi-classing a Wizard or Sorcerer for Monk to gain access to those Focus Spell feats might be the best option, or there might be a better class that I'm completely overlooking. Transforming into a flying creature and then dismissing the spell while high in the air might also be a viable tactic.

The book does make it very clear that deliberately falling onto an enemy is very difficult, so this build would probably require some rule-bending on the GM's part in order to be reasonably useful (thought not to simply be functional). AFAIK, there is nothing in the book talking about attacks made while falling, and unless I missed something this might have to be something you confirm with your GM.

Alternatively, an effect like Sudden Leap might be the answer, as the book states that to Leap/High Jump you need to Stride first, but it never specifies that you need to stride on the ground, and it likewise never says that you can't Strike while falling, only that it has to be part of your jump (which it technically is). This might be more of a technicality, but like I said, I couldn't find anything in the book like this.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ventnor wrote:
So, here's what I'm thinking happens. In the middle of the dungeon, your team comes upon a group of foes. As you lock eyes with your opponent, you assume the pose. A moment later, the enemy decides they want nothing to do with you and runs.

Isn't this basically the plot to the Beat It video? Well, except there the gangs join up, but same thing.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Paradozen wrote:

Way of the Angry Frog:

Animal Barbarian, get Animal Skin and Animal Form for 15' reach (frog form), as well as sudden leap. Multiclass Monk for Dancing Leaf and Stand Still. Turn into a frog, leap like a frog, throw out that tongue and lock people down. Get Battle Cry and a Gorget of the Primal Roar to unleash 2 terrifying croaks each battle. Big angry frog tank.

....

Battletoad?


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Natan Linggod 327 wrote:
Paradozen wrote:

Way of the Angry Frog:

Animal Barbarian, get Animal Skin and Animal Form for 15' reach (frog form), as well as sudden leap. Multiclass Monk for Dancing Leaf and Stand Still. Turn into a frog, leap like a frog, throw out that tongue and lock people down. Get Battle Cry and a Gorget of the Primal Roar to unleash 2 terrifying croaks each battle. Big angry frog tank.

....

Battletoad?

Should come with vulnerability to lightning damage though.


Ventnor wrote:
Paradozen wrote:

Way of the Angry Frog:

Animal Barbarian, get Animal Skin and Animal Form for 15' reach (frog form), as well as sudden leap. Multiclass Monk for Dancing Leaf and Stand Still. Turn into a frog, leap like a frog, throw out that tongue and lock people down. Get Battle Cry and a Gorget of the Primal Roar to unleash 2 terrifying croaks each battle. Big angry frog tank.

Later on, multiclass Fighter to get Sudden Leap, so that you can attack while you jump.

Sudden Leap is already a Barbarian feat, but MC fighter can get felling strike so your jump-tongue can pull flies from the sky.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Mystic Sword Master
Half-elf, Martial Disciple, Fighter
Str 18, Con 12, Dex 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 10
Trained Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Arcana, Crafting, Medicine, Stealth, Survival
1. Cat Fall, Nimble Elf, Attack of Opportunity, Shield Block, Double Slice
2. Monk Dedication, Quick Repair
3. Expert Athletics, Fleet, Bravery
4. Dancing Leaf, Powerful Leap
5. Reactive Shield, Master Swords, Expert Crafting
Str 19, Con 14, Dex 16, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
6. Lunge, Magical Crafting
7. Master Athletics, Battlefield Surveyor, Weapon Specialization, Breath Control
8. Wholeness of Body, Quick Swim
9. Expert Acrobatics, Juggernaut, Combat Flexibility, Wizard Dedication
10. Basic Spellcasting, Quick Jump
Str 20, Con 16, Dex 16, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 10
11. Master Crafting, Armor Expertise, Fighter Expertise, Feather Step
12. Expert Spellcasting, Quick Climb
13. Legendary Athletics, Sword Legend, Elf Step
14. Arcane Breadth, Inventor
15. Legendary Crafting, Evasion, Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Flexibility, Cloud Jump
Str 21, Con 18, Dex 16, Int 19, Wis 14, Cha 10
16. Craft Anything, Two-Weapon Flurry
17. Master Acrobatics, Other Worldly Magic, Armor Mastery
18. Master Spellcasting, Kip up
19. Legendary Acrobatics, Versatile Legend, Toughness
20. Weapon Supremacy, Wall Jump
Str 22, Con 18, Dex 18, Int 20, Wis 16, Cha 10

The Build is fully on line at level 10.
Gear: Medium armor, buckler with shield spike, and Bastard Sword.
A Double multi-class build.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Ruffian Rogue Multiclass into druid. Two handed staff sneak attacks, with Shield also, and Shillelagh for boss fights! Then pick up a Verdant Staff and you can have MORE Shillelagh fun. ;)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
Ruffian Rogue Multiclass into druid. Two handed staff sneak attacks, with Shield also, and Shillelagh for boss fights! Then pick up a Verdant Staff and you can have MORE Shillelagh fun. ;)

I suppose you could make this work with Primal Sorcerer multiclass, too. Are you getting the Shield cantrip from the Minor Magic Rogue Feat?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gisher wrote:
graystone wrote:
Ruffian Rogue Multiclass into druid. Two handed staff sneak attacks, with Shield also, and Shillelagh for boss fights! Then pick up a Verdant Staff and you can have MORE Shillelagh fun. ;)
I suppose you could make this work with Primal Sorcerer multiclass, too. Are you getting the Shield cantrip from the Minor Magic Rogue Feat?

Either that or Adapted Cantrip/Otherworldly Magic [human or half-elf]. Without the need for a spellcasting roll or DC for shield, they'd all fit.

As far as multiclass, I'd go druid over sorcerer for 2 reasons: wis to boost saves, initiative, skills, ect and the ability to change spells/cantrips each day if needed. The only requirement for druid, other than the 14 stat of course, would be the natural armor [hide is fine and the cheapest option] and other anathema [I'd go storm, so promise to not cause global warming by strip-mining?]. And you learn druidic!


graystone wrote:
Gisher wrote:
graystone wrote:
Ruffian Rogue Multiclass into druid. Two handed staff sneak attacks, with Shield also, and Shillelagh for boss fights! Then pick up a Verdant Staff and you can have MORE Shillelagh fun. ;)
I suppose you could make this work with Primal Sorcerer multiclass, too. Are you getting the Shield cantrip from the Minor Magic Rogue Feat?

Either that or Adapted Cantrip/Otherworldly Magic [human or half-elf]. Without the need for a spellcasting roll or DC for shield, they'd all fit.

As far as multiclass, I'd go druid over sorcerer for 2 reasons: wis to boost saves, initiative, skills, ect and the ability to change spells/cantrips each day if needed. The only requirement for druid, other than the 14 stat of course, would be the natural armor [hide is fine and the cheapest option] and other anathema [I'd go storm, so promise to not cause global warming by strip-mining?]. And you learn druidic!

Good points. This sounds like a fun build.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
prototype00 wrote:

So just running the Math on a lvl 1 Tower Shield Dwarven Monk.

The basic concept is that if you are engaged with a foe, and in Mountain Stance, you can:

1. Flurry For 2 Attacks
2. Raise the Tower Shield
3. Take Cover behind the Tower Shield

(Presumably the previous round, you can Move up, activate Mountain Stance and then Flurry)

For 4 AC, which RAW (I'm guessing specific Tower Shield rules trumps general cover rules here, but I'm not here to argue)

Quote:

This lasts until the shield is no longer

raised.

So that is a rather nice Lvl 1 achieveable AC of:

15 (Expert Unarmoured) + 4 (Mountain Stance: Status) + 4 (Tower Shield: Circumstance) = 23 which you can do every round and attack twice (1d8 +4 and Forceful).

I call it the Great Wall Monk.

prototype00

I really like this idea. So much so that I am building a human monk based on it. I'll be reskinning the tower shield as a 6 foot wooden ladder with several steel shields lashed to one side. Then it's ladder fighting time, Jackie Chan style. "Taking Cover" behind the shield by swinging it around and dodging acrobatically through it.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
Gisher wrote:
graystone wrote:
Ruffian Rogue Multiclass into druid. Two handed staff sneak attacks, with Shield also, and Shillelagh for boss fights! Then pick up a Verdant Staff and you can have MORE Shillelagh fun. ;)
I suppose you could make this work with Primal Sorcerer multiclass, too. Are you getting the Shield cantrip from the Minor Magic Rogue Feat?

Either that or Adapted Cantrip/Otherworldly Magic [human or half-elf]. Without the need for a spellcasting roll or DC for shield, they'd all fit.

As far as multiclass, I'd go druid over sorcerer for 2 reasons: wis to boost saves, initiative, skills, ect and the ability to change spells/cantrips each day if needed. The only requirement for druid, other than the 14 stat of course, would be the natural armor [hide is fine and the cheapest option] and other anathema [I'd go storm, so promise to not cause global warming by strip-mining?]. And you learn druidic!

Good news, if you take the multiclass dedication for Druid you can still wear metal armor - you're bound by your chosen order anathema, but not by the core Druid ones. This was brought to my attention in another thread today and explains why the illustrated character is wearing metal armor.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Met the shirtless Paladin of Irori
Well it can use armor, but it's not as fun...

Lvl 1 Domain Initiate = Athletic Rush

Great Focus spell, 1 action, gives +2 to Athletics checks and you can move when using this spell, really efficient.

Lvl 2 Monk Dedication

Now your fists cause deal 1d6 damage.

Lv 3 Shield Ally

I don't think that Blade works with punches unfortunately.

Lvl 4 Crushing Grab

Now your grabs hurt.

Lvl 6 Littany Against Wrath

Not really necessary for the build but it's strong and increase the focus pool.

Lvl 8 Quick Block

We are here, let's make use of that Shield Ally

Lvl 10 Flurry of Blows

Double Punches.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Xenocrat wrote:
graystone wrote:
Gisher wrote:
graystone wrote:
Ruffian Rogue Multiclass into druid. Two handed staff sneak attacks, with Shield also, and Shillelagh for boss fights! Then pick up a Verdant Staff and you can have MORE Shillelagh fun. ;)
I suppose you could make this work with Primal Sorcerer multiclass, too. Are you getting the Shield cantrip from the Minor Magic Rogue Feat?

Either that or Adapted Cantrip/Otherworldly Magic [human or half-elf]. Without the need for a spellcasting roll or DC for shield, they'd all fit.

As far as multiclass, I'd go druid over sorcerer for 2 reasons: wis to boost saves, initiative, skills, ect and the ability to change spells/cantrips each day if needed. The only requirement for druid, other than the 14 stat of course, would be the natural armor [hide is fine and the cheapest option] and other anathema [I'd go storm, so promise to not cause global warming by strip-mining?]. And you learn druidic!

Good news, if you take the multiclass dedication for Druid you can still wear metal armor - you're bound by your chosen order anathema, but not by the core Druid ones. This was brought to my attention in another thread today and explains why the illustrated character is wearing metal armor.

Hmmm... You are technically correct, the best kind of correct. ;)

What this means though is more important than metal armor! I can open my Druidic 101 classes, learn to speak druidic in 5 easy step as the multiclass teaches me to speak it but forgot to tell me not to teach it. :P


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kyrone wrote:

Met the shirtless Paladin of Irori

Well it can use armor, but it's not as fun...

Lvl 1 Domain Initiate = Athletic Rush

Great Focus spell, 1 action, gives +2 to Athletics checks and you can move when using this spell, really efficient.

Lvl 2 Monk Dedication

Now your fists cause deal 1d6 damage.

Lv 3 Shield Ally

I don't think that Blade works with punches unfortunately.

Lvl 4 Crushing Grab

Now your grabs hurt.

Lvl 6 Littany Against Wrath

Not really necessary for the build but it's strong and increase the focus pool.

Lvl 8 Quick Block

We are here, let's make use of that Shield Ally

Lvl 10 Flurry of Blows

Double Punches.

This reminds me of Philionel El Di Seyruun, crown prince of Seyruun. "Phil has a strong belief in justice, and he is also a pacifist. However, if Phil sees something he believes to be unjust, he will not hesitate to use force. Unlike most of the Seyruun royal family, Phil has no magical powers, but his brute strength crushes injustice in the form of oxymoronic, justice-themed physical attacks, such as Pacifist Crush, Kindness to All Creatures Kick, Benevolent Giant Swing, and Goodwill Towards Man Smash. His sheer brute strength is even enough to destroy lesser demons."


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Melee Bard!

Bard Feats: Maestro muse for Lingering Composition, take Dirge of Doom.

MC Feats: Rogue MC dedication, some 1st or 2nd level feat, Dread Striker.

Spells: Heroism, Synesthesia.

Dirge of Doom plus Dread Striker gives a -3 to effective AC for everything you attack in melee, plus Synesthesia inflicts Clumsy 3 for an additional -2 (it doesn't stack with Frightened 1, of course). Total of -5 to AC, you're now tied with a Fighter with two tiers of proficiency more than you and one more in his attack attribute and of course your allies still benefit defensively from Frightened 1 and offensively from Clumsy 3.

Plus Heroism on yourself for an additional +1 to +3.

At 20 you can do some dumb stuff with additional cantrip stacking, but it's not worth it until then. Instead of investing in all those prereqs, get sneak attack from Rogue, probably. Reactive Pursuit and/or Skirmish Strike are also nice.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Arachnofiend wrote:
Fighter with a Bastard Sword and Shortsword... 2WF, Double Slice... Power Attack... Revealing Stab... Dual-Handed Assault

Nice, although anybody with Quickdraw has other route to that not depending on 2WF.

Which makes me think why isn't Revealing Stab also a Rogue Feat, it seems thematically apt IMHO...?

This does remind though that with Bucklers not imposing any penalty, really EVERYBODY should probably wear one...
Even the Greataxe/Polearm Fighter could at least have option of Raising Shield for AC/Blocking,
although Bastard Sword users could get more AC from using the Parry Feat, they probably could still use Buckler for Blocking.

I just realized Dual-Handed Assault lets Bastard Sword do MORE damage than Greatsword (1 attack/round) given it doesn't work with Greatsword. Of course, that's a Class Feat for +1 damage/dice so maybe not super intense, and utility for free re-grip (after Raising Buckler or doing something else) is probably more impactful, but still sort of funny.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Ventnor wrote:

This shield derail is boring and should be in another thread. Let's talk about weird builds!

So, here's a simple but good one. Be a bard with the Polymath Muse. At first level, you get the Versatile Performance feat, which lets you, among other things, use Intimidate to demoralize enemies and qualify for Intimidation skill feats based on performance. So let's see how high we can jack up that performance score by level 20!

I found another way to make this build even better! Multiclass into Rogue to grab the level 1 Rogue feat You're Next. Whenever you take an enemy down, you can pose as a reaction to demoralize another enemy in the battle!


heliopolix wrote:
prototype00 wrote:

So just running the Math on a lvl 1 Tower Shield Dwarven Monk.

The basic concept is that if you are engaged with a foe, and in Mountain Stance, you can:

1. Flurry For 2 Attacks
2. Raise the Tower Shield
3. Take Cover behind the Tower Shield

(Presumably the previous round, you can Move up, activate Mountain Stance and then Flurry)

For 4 AC, which RAW (I'm guessing specific Tower Shield rules trumps general cover rules here, but I'm not here to argue)

Quote:

This lasts until the shield is no longer

raised.

So that is a rather nice Lvl 1 achieveable AC of:

15 (Expert Unarmoured) + 4 (Mountain Stance: Status) + 4 (Tower Shield: Circumstance) = 23 which you can do every round and attack twice (1d8 +4 and Forceful).

I call it the Great Wall Monk.

prototype00

I really like this idea. So much so that I am building a human monk based on it. I'll be reskinning the tower shield as a 6 foot wooden ladder with several steel shields lashed to one side. Then it's ladder fighting time, Jackie Chan style. "Taking Cover" behind the shield by swinging it around and dodging acrobatically through it.

Half Elf Monk for both Natural Ambition (Take Ki Strike) and Ageless Patience at lvl 5 is a nice choice if you also want to be a healer.

You will also want the Mountain Stance Chain, even though the second one is basically only 1AC, as the third one is good, requires the second as a pre-req and gives you another +1 AC.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
graystone wrote:
Gisher wrote:
graystone wrote:
Ruffian Rogue Multiclass into druid. Two handed staff sneak attacks, with Shield also, and Shillelagh for boss fights! Then pick up a Verdant Staff and you can have MORE Shillelagh fun. ;)
I suppose you could make this work with Primal Sorcerer multiclass, too. Are you getting the Shield cantrip from the Minor Magic Rogue Feat?

Either that or Adapted Cantrip/Otherworldly Magic [human or half-elf]. Without the need for a spellcasting roll or DC for shield, they'd all fit.

As far as multiclass, I'd go druid over sorcerer for 2 reasons: wis to boost saves, initiative, skills, ect and the ability to change spells/cantrips each day if needed. The only requirement for druid, other than the 14 stat of course, would be the natural armor [hide is fine and the cheapest option] and other anathema [I'd go storm, so promise to not cause global warming by strip-mining?]. And you learn druidic!

Good news, if you take the multiclass dedication for Druid you can still wear metal armor - you're bound by your chosen order anathema, but not by the core Druid ones. This was brought to my attention in another thread today and explains why the illustrated character is wearing metal armor.

Hmmm... You are technically correct, the best kind of correct. ;)

What this means though is more important than metal armor! I can open my Druidic 101 classes, learn to speak druidic in 5 easy step as the multiclass teaches me to speak it but forgot to tell me not to teach it. :P

I just tripped over something awesome for the build. Primeval Mistletoe for shillelagh every 10 min and 1/day tree shape!


10 people marked this as a favorite.

inspired by the other thread about crossbow Ace:

The unseen terror:

you start off as a Halfling rogue and pick up the Ruffian racket (the racket abilities are of little use for use, we mainly care about the feats they offer)

Specifically, we want brutal beating and vicious debilitations. As a plus, we also get the critical specialisation for xbows.

From halfling, we get that we can hide behind our allies.

At 2 we MC ranger for Crossbow ace, and at 8 we pick up running reload.

The end result is that we dart from one Ally to the next, becoming Undetected each round as we pepper our enemies with d10+2 base damage sneak attacks that on a critical hit not only do they run the risk of being impaled to nearby walls, but they also make them shake in their boots frightened.

I mean, if bolts keep flying at you, from somewhere you can't pinpoint, doing massive damage, I would be scared as well ^^


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Add Skirmish Strike to the "unseen terror" for extra movement with your attack.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
Add Skirmish Strike to the "unseen terror" for extra movement with your attack.

yeah, there are a lot of great rogue feats that can go well with it.

things like you're next, skirmish strike, sneak savant and felling shot are already on my list.

The good thing with halfling is that at 5 they can basically cherry pick any level 1 ancestry feat from every ancestry, and this opens up for stuff like getting very sneaky from goblins, or an extra level 1 class feat from human, and etc


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I just built a dual-tower shield-wielding fighter/paladin for the lulz and was blown away by how actually decent it is.

You definitely stick with a single tower shield until 12th level (you don't have the Bulk for a second until then anyway), but then at 12th Paragon's Guard means you can keep both shields raised all the time and alternate which one you take hits on.

The best part is that bashing with a shield that doesn't have a boss gains the agile trait, so you have a bossed shield and unbossed shield and you can use all of the agile-requiring TWF feats.

I think this might be my favorite thing about 2e so far - I just came up with a totally silly concept, and not only is it mechanically viable it's actually even an effective build.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Ant man:

Goblin giant instinct barbarian, grab as much STR & DEX as possible, get the sneaky goblin feats.

Sneak (in plain sight) into the middle of an enemy camp. Turn into a huge rage monster...

...profit?


4 people marked this as a favorite.

At level 14, Monks with the Wind Jump ki spell and Assurance (Acrobatics) can have a very reliable fly speed. How so?

Wind Jump is a feat monks can get at 10th level which lets said monk spend a focus point to get a fly speed for one minute. Now when they first get this power, they need to land on the ground at the end of their turn. When Wind Jump heightens to a 6th level spell at 11th level, they can attempt a DC 30 acrobatics check to remain in the sky at the end of their turn instead of falling.

Which brings us to Assurance (Acrobatics). Instead of rolling the acrobatics check, you can instead automatically get a result equalling 10 + your proficiency. The earliest we can boost the assurance result to meet that DC 30 threshold is at level 14, if the Monk has used some of their skill increases to boost their acrobatics proficiency to Master. That gets us 10 (assurance) + 14 (level) + 6 (master proficiency) = an automatic 30 on any acrobatics checks you like.


9 people marked this as a favorite.

Due to a conversation a couple days ago about Warpriests of Calistria getting screwed for having a martial weapon with a small damage dice I realized that if you want to use that whip you might be better off as a Cloistered Cleric.

You don't really care about your proficiency with the whip beyond Trained - you're not using it to attack. All you really need is Legendary Athletics and a maxed out dexterity score and you can use your actions that don't involve casting spells to perform trip maneuvers at range. Now you're just a regular full caster with Legendary spell rolls that can lay claim to a very effective third action.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
MaxAstro wrote:

I just built a dual-tower shield-wielding fighter/paladin for the lulz and was blown away by how actually decent it is.

You definitely stick with a single tower shield until 12th level (you don't have the Bulk for a second until then anyway), but then at 12th Paragon's Guard means you can keep both shields raised all the time and alternate which one you take hits on.

The best part is that bashing with a shield that doesn't have a boss gains the agile trait, so you have a bossed shield and unbossed shield and you can use all of the agile-requiring TWF feats.

I think this might be my favorite thing about 2e so far - I just came up with a totally silly concept, and not only is it mechanically viable it's actually even an effective build.

How do you manage the low hardness of Tower Shields? I tried to use the new tower shield on a fighter, but ultimately decided to just grab normal shields as they eventually get sturdy shields.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Paradozen wrote:
MaxAstro wrote:

I just built a dual-tower shield-wielding fighter/paladin for the lulz and was blown away by how actually decent it is.

You definitely stick with a single tower shield until 12th level (you don't have the Bulk for a second until then anyway), but then at 12th Paragon's Guard means you can keep both shields raised all the time and alternate which one you take hits on.

The best part is that bashing with a shield that doesn't have a boss gains the agile trait, so you have a bossed shield and unbossed shield and you can use all of the agile-requiring TWF feats.

I think this might be my favorite thing about 2e so far - I just came up with a totally silly concept, and not only is it mechanically viable it's actually even an effective build.

How do you manage the low hardness of Tower Shields? I tried to use the new tower shield on a fighter, but ultimately decided to just grab normal shields as they eventually get sturdy shields.

Honestly that is the one place the build currently falls apart. I'm not entirely sure why there isn't simply an option for sturdy shields to be either steel shields or tower shields, since the base hp/hardness is the same. Basically for my build I just assumed "magical tower shields must be intended to exist eventually".

However, that is the only thing missing from the build right now, and it's a small thing - I'm sure magical tower shields will show up before too long. I can't imagine the devs intended tower shields to only be viable at very low levels. And besides, I imagine most GMs would let you have a sturdy tower shield if you wanted to go with a concept like this. It's not like it's very optimal, to say the least. :P

Even if not, the build loses basically nothing from switching to steel shields - the shield bashes and using Paragon's Guard to alternate shield blocks works the same either way. The only thing you lose is the option to spend an action for an extra +2 AC.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

My understanding was that tower shields are mostly for taking cover behind, not really for blocking. I mean, to make a tower shield "something you can carry" it has to be mostly wood.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hush. How tower shields work is a matter for another thread. (Though I don't know if anyone already made one.)

Ventnor wrote:
This shield derail is boring and should be in another thread. Let's talk about weird builds!

251 to 300 of 401 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Advice / Let's talk about some niche, unexpected, weird, or fun builds. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.