ALL Multiclass Archetypes


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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I was hopping resiliency granted more HP, for now it seems worse than the general feat that grant HP... And a general feat being better than a class feat makes you wonder...


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oholoko wrote:
I was hopping resiliency granted more HP, for now it seems worse than the general feat that grant HP... And a general feat being better than a class feat makes you wonder...

It depends on how in you go on the Multiclass. If you spend every class feat on MC then you're getting at least 1.5 HP per level (3 per two levels) so it's a time and a half better than Toughness in that case. Value rapidly decreases if you don't, though.


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ChibiNyan wrote:
If I'm playing Ranger/Barbarian and want to get AOO, 2 feats seems really rough. One is pretty useless. Even if I wanted other fighter feats, it doens't look worth it to ever take that MC.

I really hope that rangers and Barbarians get feat options that give them more thematic things to do with a reaction than make an attack of opportunity. I don't want a fighter focused class ability to the be definitive "must have" to be a front line tank.

I also don't want the defining thing about being a fighter to be something that every other martial class picks up with one feat selection as a feat tax.

Liberty's Edge

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We actually know that Barbarian can get AoO in-class now (with a Feat, like Champions can). Ranger has not been similarly mentioned.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
We actually know that Barbarian can get AoO in-class now (with a Feat, like Champions can). Ranger has not been similarly mentioned.

Yep! I remain curious to see the final shape of the Ranger. I wasn't super into the playtest version of the class & am hoping the final is something I can get behind a bit more


Thank you very much for transcribing this.

The content, however, is underwhelming. I thought they were doing away with feat trees.

And the "Devotion" line of fears are either overcosted (if low-level class feats are powerful), or insignificant (if they are not). It seems like nothing more than the option to check a box labelled "mulitclassing".

Liberty's Edge

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Richard Crawford wrote:
The content, however, is underwhelming. I thought they were doing away with feat trees.

Archetypes aren't exactly Feat Trees (which are close to nonexistent elsewhere in the rules by all indications). The only thing that really qualifies are the Feats to get spellcasting, and that's sort of inevitable if you're going to have them as Feats since casting spells is worth more than a single Feat.

Richard Crawford wrote:
And the "Devotion" line of fears are either overcosted (if low-level class feats are powerful), or insignificant (if they are not). It seems like nothing more than the option to check a box labelled "mulitclassing".

The Devotion Feats are quite good if you want what they give you. They're mostly not flashy, but they enable, say, a Wizard who fights well with a sword, or a Ranger who can cast some spells as a Druid, pretty effectively.


Unicore wrote:
ChibiNyan wrote:
If I'm playing Ranger/Barbarian and want to get AOO, 2 feats seems really rough. One is pretty useless. Even if I wanted other fighter feats, it doens't look worth it to ever take that MC.

I really hope that rangers and Barbarians get feat options that give them more thematic things to do with a reaction than make an attack of opportunity. I don't want a fighter focused class ability to the be definitive "must have" to be a front line tank.

I also don't want the defining thing about being a fighter to be something that every other martial class picks up with one feat selection as a feat tax.

Even in the playtest, Rogues and Barbarians had their own reaction feats.


Is there likely to be any value in a wizard taking the sorcerer multiclass or vice-versa?

It depends on how good cantrips are I suppose?
And can unlock multiple lists if you go non-arcane with the sorcerer?


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Lanathar wrote:

Is there likely to be any value in a wizard taking the sorcerer multiclass or vice-versa?

It depends on how good cantrips are I suppose?
And can unlock multiple lists if you go non-arcane with the sorcerer?

Yeah, and honestly even if you stick with arcane having those extra spell slots to use is no bad thing. Be to steer away from DC based stuff though unless you have good Cha with your Int.

Though I think Sorc taking Wizard is a little better because it lets them use those few Prepared slots for utility and situational spells while keeping all their staple stuff in the spontaneous slots.

But yeah, caster-caster Multiclass has a lot of ways it can be useful, even multiclassing with the same list, even if it isn't necessarily as good as it is for Martials.


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Lanathar wrote:

Is there likely to be any value in a wizard taking the sorcerer multiclass or vice-versa?

It depends on how good cantrips are I suppose?
And can unlock multiple lists if you go non-arcane with the sorcerer?

Wizards may want bloodline powers or acess to some spells from Primal and divine list without being bound to an anathema.

Sorcerers don't really have the need for another spell lists because they can cherry pick the best spells from each list with Crossblooded evolution, but I guess that School powers and low level utility spells might be useful.


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Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Caster/caster multiclassing is going to be a big deal, I'm calling it now. More slots and more spell options are going to be VERY attractive.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
WatersLethe wrote:
Caster/caster multiclassing is going to be a big deal, I'm calling it now. More slots and more spell options are going to be VERY attractive.

Especially if you're able to match casting traditions or ability score used. I think an occult sorcerer/bard could even manage both.


I am really keen on the cleric/wizard for a theurge.

But I also assume there will be a theurge prestige and unique feats down the line (something sorely missing outside of 3rd party in 1E)

I spent a fair few commutes recently on my mobile internet trying to work out a somewhat viable theurge build without using the SLA loopholes (in 1E). It wasn't possible


I see big debates over whether same tradition is best or if two different ones are best and then which two complement best.


What is meant by tradition in this instance? Have I missed some terminology?

Does it mean spell list or "prepared"/"spontaneous". Or something else?


Lanathar wrote:

What is meant by tradition in this instance? Have I missed some terminology?

Does it mean spell list or "prepared"/"spontaneous". Or something else?

It's the spell list - arcane, divine, primal, occult.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The particular reason matching traditions would be good is that your proficiency for both spell lists would match.

Normally with multiclassing, you'd only get up to Master training, but if the tradition matches, you'd be able to get up to legendary, for +2 to caster attack checks and spell DCs.

Of course, the downside is it means less flexibility in the sense that you only get to pick spells from a single list.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Mechalibur wrote:

The particular reason matching traditions would be good is that your proficiency for both spell lists would match.

Normally with multiclassing, you'd only get up to Master training, but if the tradition matches, you'd be able to get up to legendary, for +2 to caster attack checks and spell DCs.

Of course, the downside is it means less flexibility in the sense that you only get to pick spells from a single list.

In that case I can see something like going Arcane/Primal as your main class for all the spells that require saves/hit rolls and then Divine/Occult for those sweet buffs and heals that don't care about proficiency as your secondary list.


See Mechalibur is already putting forth the initial posits for the caster/caster debate.


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Malk_Content wrote:
In that case I can see something like going Arcane/Primal as your main class for all the spells that require saves/hit rolls and then Divine/Occult for those sweet buffs and heals that don't care about proficiency as your secondary list.

Sorcerer/Bard is going to be fun. 2-actions for big spell, round it out with a 1-action composition cantrip.

Might try with a Fey Bloodline Gnome Sorcerer for a primal/occult fey trickster type.


Mechalibur wrote:
WatersLethe wrote:
Caster/caster multiclassing is going to be a big deal, I'm calling it now. More slots and more spell options are going to be VERY attractive.
Especially if you're able to match casting traditions or ability score used. I think an occult sorcerer/bard could even manage both.

A pure occult Sorc/Bard or Bard/Sorc is the most powerful combination at the moment, simply for spending 4-5 feats for 8-14 extra spell slots.


We have a cleric of Gozreh who multiclassed into Druid, which actually makes for a very competent blaster with a staff.


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Captain Morgan wrote:
We have a cleric of Gozreh who multiclassed into Druid, which actually makes for a very competent blaster with a staff.

LOL one of the characters in my group's main Doomsday Dawn party was a Storm Druid multiclassing into Cleric of Gozreh. XD He was an excellent blaster and pulled out pocket heals and buffs at important moments a few times.

Also it made for some amazing shenanigans when we found the Cyclopes who displayed iconography of Gozreh but were logging in the Dryad's forest. He ended up using Stormwind Flight and went in lightning crackling (with the Goblin Alchemist throwing bottled lightning for added effect) and critted Intimidation to make them stand down as he proclaiked himself the Wrath of Gozreh. XD


One thing seems missing is for dedications for Rogue, Cleric and Alchemists is there rackets, warpriest/clostied or field research.
Am I correct to assume they don't choose any.


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Reziburno25 wrote:

One thing seems missing is for dedications for Rogue, Cleric and Alchemists is there rackets, warpriest/clostied or field research.

Am I correct to assume they don't choose any.

Yes. This is to prevent things like Rogue Dedication for Dex to damage from becoming the standard, and allows them to encode strong abilities in the subclasses without having to worry about them being available to every character in existence.


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Cyouni wrote:
Reziburno25 wrote:

One thing seems missing is for dedications for Rogue, Cleric and Alchemists is there rackets, warpriest/clostied or field research.

Am I correct to assume they don't choose any.
Yes. This is to prevent things like Rogue Dedication for Dex to damage from becoming the standard, and allows them to encode strong abilities in the subclasses without having to worry about them being available to every character in existence.

The dedications aren't universal in asking you to make the subclass choice. The choice is only required where necessary, either because of anathema or because determining other features. E.g. Sorcerer bloodline, Champion cause, Barbarian instinct.

Note that in most cases where you do make the choice (e.g., Druid order), the dedication explicitly stated you don't get any benefits—just the anathema. That language addresses Cyouni's worry about feat balance. i.e., getting the usual lvl-1 benefits for many of these choices—like Dex to damage—would be incredibly overpowered compared to a standard lvl-2 class feat, which would be terrible design.

Balancing the dedication feats seems tricky!


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Is there an error in the fighter archetype? Despite it saying they “increasing your skill with martial arms and at wearing armor,” I don’t see where they get armor proficiencies. I see it under champion and the rogue... actually that seems to be it despite the use of armor in other classes. That said, armor is an important and iconic factor for fighters, so is this an error or oversight?


I'll be honest looking through all of this is a bit overwhelming to take in at once, so I'll hope that someone else here has a better grasp on it to answer this question. If I'm playing a Cleric, and I'm looking to get the level 1 Focus Power of a Sorceror, but am not really all that interested in anything else the Sorceror gives (though if I have to dip to get it that's fine), is there anything I can do to make that happen as of right now or am I SOL?


Sigh wrote:
I'll be honest looking through all of this is a bit overwhelming to take in at once, so I'll hope that someone else here has a better grasp on it to answer this question. If I'm playing a Cleric, and I'm looking to get the level 1 Focus Power of a Sorceror, but am not really all that interested in anything else the Sorceror gives (though if I have to dip to get it that's fine), is there anything I can do to make that happen as of right now or am I SOL?

1. Have a Cha of 14+

2. Spend a class feat of level 2 or higher on Sorcerer Dedication, select the bloodline whose focus power you want.
3. Spend a class feat of level 4 or higher on "Basic Blood Potency."

Now you have the focus spell.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Sigh wrote:
I'll be honest looking through all of this is a bit overwhelming to take in at once, so I'll hope that someone else here has a better grasp on it to answer this question. If I'm playing a Cleric, and I'm looking to get the level 1 Focus Power of a Sorceror, but am not really all that interested in anything else the Sorceror gives (though if I have to dip to get it that's fine), is there anything I can do to make that happen as of right now or am I SOL?

1. Have a Cha of 14+

2. Spend a class feat of level 2 or higher on Sorcerer Dedication, select the bloodline whose focus power you want.
3. Spend a class feat of level 4 or higher on "Basic Blood Potency."

Now you have the focus spell.

It seems you meant Basic Bloodline spell, but yes that does seem to be the way to do it. Thanks.

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