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? I'm just amused that closest thing he has to spellbook is huge ass obelisk artifact thing.
(note: this is the obelisk thingy:
"Level 10. The Pillar (CR 22): Leaving the caves behind, this small level culminates in a large room containing a gigantic obelisk carved from a single piece of strange metal. Inscribed on the surface of this monolith are hundreds, if not thousands, of spells, composing much of the Whispering Tyrant’s vast pool of arcane knowledge. Those hoping to glean knowledge from the pillar must also deal with a large number of traps and runes designed to kill or incapacitate. This level is populated primarily by powerful spellcasters, including a number of the Whispering Tyrant’s lich apprentices and several powerful visiting outsiders who were trapped within the dungeon when the place was sealed."
you can see from the map that the pillar is taller than majority of the rooms in gallowspire <_< Its not most convenient thing to have if you wanted to travel)
Anyhoo, I don't really think Tyrant's phylactery HAS to be something grandiose. I mean, it could be just something you'd never recognize as phylactery in first place rather than it having to be something that is hard to destroy.
(then again, I don't really think Whispering Tyrant should be Vecna scale threat or as hard to destroy. Though I do think he'd be cooler if he was archmage tier 10 instead of mythic lich rank 10 :D)
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Crystal tweeted at some point while talking about the AP something that I always took to be suggestive. Can't find the tweet now, but the key line was, the phylactery isn't *on* the isle of terror . . . (emphasis in original)
which I always took to mean, the phylactery *is* the isle
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Crystal tweeted at some point while talking about the AP something that I always took to be suggestive. Can't find the tweet now, but the key line was, the phylactery isn't *on* the isle of terror . . . (emphasis in original)
which I always took to mean, the phylactery *is* the isle
I mean, logically speaking since Tyrant reformed in Gallowspire, isn't the phylactery IN Gallowspire? I don't think Gallowspire was on Isle of Terror or am I remembering wrong?
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All of this assumes that the most powerful lich ever to exist hasn't come up with a way to reform somewhere other than the location of his phylactery.
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Holy crap. The whole "idea" phylactery thing you might be on to something. Perhaps that's one of the main objectives of the Whispering Way. To keep the idea of The Whispering Tyrant alive.
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All of this assumes that the most powerful lich ever to exist hasn't come up with a way to reform somewhere other than the location of his phylactery.
I think the issue with that is: then what stops him from destroying his own body and reforming outside gallowspire?
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All of this assumes that the most powerful lich ever to exist hasn't come up with a way to reform somewhere other than the location of his phylactery.I think the issue with that is: then what stops him from destroying his own body and reforming outside gallowspire?
Exactly what I was thinking :D
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Actually, if we go with the hint that the Isle of Terror itself is his phylactery, then I suspect he's a victim of his own cleverness.
The basic idea would be that he doesn't want the location of his reformation to give away the location of his phylactery, so he wants to be able to reform somewhere else. But the tie between a lich and his phylactery is strong - it can't just be arbitrarily or easily changed.
So somewhere deep in Gallowspire, the Whispering Tyrant conducts a ritual that remotely channels the energies of his massive phylactery into the depths of the dungeon. Now he gets to reform at his base of operations, hundreds of miles away from his phylactery! And even better, everyone suspects Gallowspire contains his phylactery because that's where he reforms, so no one even thinks to look for it anywhere else.
Except there's no way to reverse the ritual. So when Gallowspire is sealed, he's not only trapped - he's also separated from his phylactery. He can't even get to it by dying anymore.
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I mean, logically speaking since Tyrant reformed in Gallowspire, isn't the phylactery IN Gallowspire? I don't think Gallowspire was on Isle of Terror or am I remembering wrong?
I mean if his phylactery is something non-physical like "his legend" if he's destroyed he still needs to reform in a physical location. So it would make sense for him to reform wherever his legend is strongest, which historically was Gallowspire but he could always move his base of operations and change his legend.
Hilltop, in Varisia, where goblins live?
From Rise of the Runelords ....
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All of this is answered in Tyrants Grasp itself. No spoilers, but I recommend picking it up.
Back in 2e, though, my money is on Nidal. Why? Every time Paizo releases a campaign setting book, a campaign soon follows. Rule of Fear came out just before Carrion Crown. Numeria's book was out a little before Iron Gods. My timing might be a little finnicky, but it's about that!
However, my WANTS for a first AP is Razmiran. After that, go exotic- maybe Galt, maybe the Mwangi Expanse in a Black Panther type adventure (good use for the Jungle Heritage options!)... I want Gunslingers before we get Alkenstar but I want it. I'm a big fan of exotic APs, so I'm pumped for whatever we get. Nidal isn't too interesting to me (too grim, but not scary enough), so I'd likely pass on AP1 if it's Nidal and save up for AP2 instead.
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I loved the Mwangi expeditions in Serpent's Skull (I know, I know. I'm the only person who liked that AP). But I'd definitely take some more deadly jungle action.
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I'd love a Nidal AP, but I feel it would be a tough sell as a "first AP" for 2e. That said, it is my first wish for APs. My second is Mana wastes, Geb, and Nex. We need some more of that conflict.
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I'd love a Nidal AP, but I feel it would be a tough sell as a "first AP" for 2e. That said, it is my first wish for APs. My second is Mana wastes, Geb, and Nex. We need some more of that conflict.
I wouldn't expect an AP that spends significant time in the Mana Wastes. Mostly because a place where magic is unreliable with significant regions of unsuitability, would make a lot of characters useless a lot of the time. And especially in the first AP where they want to highlight the game, sidelining a significant number of PCs wouldn't be helpful. I figure at most, we'd get a section of one book of one of the more experimental APs where you occasionally deal with unstable magic zones.
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I feel like the "mana wastes" AP would be the one about magic returning to the mana wastes, at least in the parts where the characters would be expected to need it, anyway.
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The first AP for second edition will certainly not be of the "experimental" variety. You need something more or less traditional for your maiden voyage. Both Nidal and Mana Wastes would qualify more on the "experimental" side, I think.
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The first AP for second edition will certainly not be of the "experimental" variety. You need something more or less traditional for your maiden voyage. Both Nidal and Mana Wastes would qualify more on the "experimental" side, I think.
Yep. I figure it will be one of the more 'traditional' fantasy settings. Varisia is still the prime suspect because of it's history of being one of the main Pathfinder locations, and fairly traditional unlike weird places like Nidal or the Mana Wastes. Although I am thinking that Isger could be possible. We haven't really seen much about it yet, but the impression is that it's a fairly standard fantasy setting, with it's main distinguishing points being the Goblinblood Wars, the aftermath of that and Chelish domination. And exploring the aftermath of that conflict could be a way of helping introduce Goblins as a new core race. Even the existing PF1 info does make the goblins look like victims (to an extant at least), they were slaves of the hobgoblins and then after the goblinoid loss, there was the burning of their wood in an attempted genocide. So a sympathetic look at a goblin tribe is possible. And looking into Isger, I see there are some plot threads that were established early on, and haven't apparently been dealt with. This includes the Gillamoor Plague and Kaltessa Iyis building an undead army. Although coming just after the Tyrant's Grasp AP, I doubt they'd want to dive right into another undead focused AP.
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The first AP for second edition will certainly not be of the "experimental" variety. You need something more or less traditional for your maiden voyage. Both Nidal and Mana Wastes would qualify more on the "experimental" side, I think.Yep. I figure it will be one of the more 'traditional' fantasy settings. Varisia is still the prime suspect because of it's history of being one of the main Pathfinder locations, and fairly traditional unlike weird places like Nidal or the Mana Wastes. Although I am thinking that Isger could be possible. We haven't really seen much about it yet, but the impression is that it's a fairly standard fantasy setting, with it's main distinguishing points being the Goblinblood Wars, the aftermath of that and Chelish domination. And exploring the aftermath of that conflict could be a way of helping introduce Goblins as a new core race. Even the existing PF1 info does make the goblins look like victims (to an extant at least), they were slaves of the hobgoblins and then after the goblinoid loss, there was the burning of their wood in an attempted genocide. So a sympathetic look at a goblin tribe is possible. And looking into Isger, I see there are some plot threads that were established early on, and haven't apparently been dealt with. This includes the Gillamoor Plague and Kaltessa Iyis building an undead army. Although coming just after the Tyrant's Grasp AP, I doubt they'd want to dive right into another undead focused AP.
Kaltessa Iyis was stated out in the last book of Council of Thieves to be used as a way to continue that AP, so i dont think we will be seeing her used, but could possibly. She is a fascinating character i would love to she her story explored a bit.
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Plot twist that nobody sees coming: Its Janderhoff AP
Pfft, yeah, I don't think anybody believes that... Janderhoff will be most likely the only varisian city state that never gets book. I'd expect New Thassilon to get setting book before it :p
Well it is a location that is known but hasn't been detailed. But I'm not sure a dwarf focused AP is in the cards. Especially since there was Ironfang Invasion not too long ago with Kragodan playing a big role there. We actually played it as an all dwarf party. It was perfect for a dwarf party.
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I've been thinking about my post. I do think that Nex and Geb are rather good candidates, actually. Nex is this incredible magic realm and Geb is full of undead. If you wanted to avoid completely sidelining mages (which I disagree that wild magic does), you could easily gain items in Nex that help stabilize magic.
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My bet is on Varisia, Cheliax, or a traveling AP showcasing the Inner Sea Region.
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Beyond the setting and plot of the AP, how about, what Iconics are going to be featured in it's art? I think Fumbus is pretty much a given. He's the new kid, so they want to show him off. As for the others, I suspect Valeros and Seoni will be there due to tradition. They were in the first AP and the cover of the PF1 beta, core book and the PF2 Playtest. And they fit two of the major roles melee and arcane support. As for the fourth, probably either Kyra or Merisiel. Kyra would make for a more balanced party Melee (Valeros), Arcane caster (Seoni), Healer (Kyra) and wild-card, jack of all trades (Fumbus). Merisiel would make a party with limited healing (mostly Fumbus, but that's doable) and has the advantage of being James Jacobs' favorite. I don't think we'll see any of the non-core iconics for a while, until the classes are reintroduced. Although some might be redone with core classes, like Alain might show up as a Fighter with Cavalier multiclass archetype.
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I don't think we'll see any of the non-core iconics for a while, until the classes are reintroduced. Although some might be redone with core classes, like Alain might show up as a Fighter with Cavalier multiclass archetype.
Although slightly off topic, I agree that the none core will be held back until we see their class. It was mentioned on another thread by Bulman that Damiel will be changing professions.
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The first AP for second edition will certainly not be of the "experimental" variety. You need something more or less traditional for your maiden voyage. Both Nidal and Mana Wastes would qualify more on the "experimental" side, I think.
You can have an experimental AP... as long as it's not niche.
No-magic gunslinging and heavy doses of torture fall under niche.
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I kind of hope it isn't in Varisia, actually. Don't get me wrong, I love Varisia, but it'd be nice to kick things off with an AP focusing on one of the areas that didn't get as much attention in 1E.
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I feel like doing another Varisia AP a year after the last Varisia AP is perhaps too soon. Perhaps a better idea would be to try to figure out what serious antagonists we want to recur in PF2 (a la the Runelords) and do the first adventure about whatever that is, and wherever that is.
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Well, taking 1E APs as successfully concluded by default- endings that actually alter the status quo will give us:
-The Worldwound is closed and Mendev is on cleanup duty.
-The former Stolen Lands are now a kingdom of some kind.
- Lastwall is looking like it's gonna be pretty well thrashed, whatever happens to Tar-Baphon... but then again, it always had a bit more in common with Mendev than I ever found much use for, so... no biggie? <_<
- Taldor has a new Empress
- Minkai has a new Empress who might well be more well-disposed toward Avistani trade than prior incumbents
- The new nation of Ravounel abuts Cheliax and Nidal
- The remnants of Azlant have been partially colonized
Allowing that the first AP is likely to be fairly "vanilla," and going with PossibleCabbage's (excellent!) suggestion to focus on potential enemies:
The Runelords as adversaries are likely more or less wrapped up on a story front.
Most likely won't be Tar-Baphon-related since he will have JUST worn the BBEG hat in the first edition's swansong.
Doubt it'll be Abrogail Thrune- a major facet of Hell's Vengeance was solidifying her rule, so knocking her off of that throne (about the only thing left to do with her!) seems unlikely.
Probably won't be the drow- besides the fact that Golarion's Darklands have a lot more on offer, Paizo also tends to shy away from stories and beats too reminiscent of what can be done in other settings... <_<
In a game named after the Pathfinder Society, I could easily see a pretty standard "beat the Aspis Consortium to the Prize" AP, especially as a world tour kind of deal. While not the most "save the world!" idea on the surface, it does allow for a mix of dungeon crawls, diplomacy, wilderness stuff, and so forth. As a bonus, the Aspis Consortium can produce multiple villains without being taken out entirely.
Galt is a mess nobody seems to be in a hurry to do much with, so cleaning it up could be an option... except that it would represent a major change to the setting's status quo right around launch.
Razmir and Razmiran could be awesome- hasn't really been touched on since the module three-parter a few years back, but... see Galt. Any major change to Razmiran would be a pretty soon for a new edition trying to establish a new baseline.
I think whatever the first AP is, it will likely be akin to the overwhelming majority of APs to date, and focus on preservation of a tolerable status quo rather than radical upheaval- APs have been allowed to wreak major changes, but most of the time, they're about stopping a bad guy from making matters worse.
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Hm, I like this "Around the Inner Sea in 80 Days" vs the Aspis Consortium idea. :
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Hm, I like this "Around the Inner Sea in 80 Days" vs the Aspis Consortium idea. :
We haven't had an AP that intersects meaningfully with Absalom yet have we? Seems strange, now that I think about it.
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We haven't had an AP that intersects meaningfully with Absalom yet have we? Seems strange, now that I think about it.
Absalom is generally considered off limits as it is the playground for Pathfinder Society. That being said:
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EDIT: Also, more info here. :)
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Considering goblins are core now, Isger is kind of the obvious place to start. If there's anywhere goblins would want to be accepted by their non-goblin neighbors *and* can be painted in a sympathetic light it's Isger.
Isger is, however, 100% the worst place to start if you wanted to make hobgoblins sympathetic.
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Nice! I'm actually glad Isger is getting some love! It needs it, but it also solidly fulfills a "standard adventure" location, and is a great place to showcase goblins, as PC just noted.
Very cool.
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Nice!
We also don't see Paizo playing the "dragon" card very often in APs.
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Apparently, the villain isn't anything new or out of left field.
LET THE SPECULATION RUN RAMPANT!
(Also... YAY ISGER! I've used it as background for characters more time than I can count, thrilled to see it getting some love in an AP!)
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Is the villain Erik Mona? ;)
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I find that hard to believe! ;) That sounds like a villain-y thing to say.
In all honesty, I'm pretty stoked for the next edition! Looking forward to August 1st!
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Some people might think so!
But this villain is even more wicked! (Depending on who you ask.)
Two Erik Monas?
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But this villain is even more wicked! (Depending on who you ask.)
I am going to say its the red dragon Daralathyxl!
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Apparently, the villain isn't anything new or out of left field.
LET THE SPECULATION RUN RAMPANT!
(Also... YAY ISGER! I've used it as background for characters more time than I can count, thrilled to see it getting some love in an AP!)
It's someone we know. This AP involves an invasion, starts in a Hellknight keep, cultists and slavers are involved...
*church-lady voice* Could it be... Satan Asmodeus? */chuch-lady*
Could also be Cheliaxians, Queen Abrogail as the big bad. Although Isger is already a Cheliaxian protectorate, so maybe not. Maybe the Whispering Tyrant is still kicking around after his AP and this is his Plan B after whatever goes in in Tyrant's Grasp gets foiled by those meddling PCs. There is mention of an artifact, so it's likely that whoever is the big bad is after that, or released by that. The Hellknights might have been keeping it trapped. The list of candidates is very long, I'm inclined to think extra-planar or Dark Tapestry. Wild-guess; Nex released from a prison by hapless goblins (or PCs, just as chaotic).
It does sound like it's not going to stay put in Isger, and will be a road trip, possibly showing off different regions.
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Put my money down on the the BBEG being Daralathyxl, the "Sixth King of the Mountains". We need a big bad evil red dragon as a villain for once, and going the biggest and baddest of them all sounds like a truly epic start to 2nd ed.
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Put my money down on the the BBEG being Daralathyxl, the "Sixth King of the Mountains". We need a big bad evil red dragon as a villain for once, and going the biggest and baddest of them all sounds like a truly epic start to 2nd ed.
Aashaq is the biggest and baddest of them all, actually. Not only is she also a great wyrm red dragon, she has (in PF1) 7 levels of Cleric. A "Reign of Ashes" fits better with a motivated (and active) Dashak priest, not a dude who comes out of hibernation every few decades for some petulant devastation and tribute gathering.
Age of Ashes adventure path. Chapter 1 Hellknight Hill.
More Cheliax stuff. Which is okay by me.