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I think it'll give the various indie game producers a boost simply because it isn't as good a game as many of them. Which is fine in the abstract but if it weakens the community here I'll regret that.
I'll miss that Paizo missed a chance to do an evolutionary PF1.5 and instead decided to do a PF2 which is a very new and different game from what preceded it. However, I hold out hope that a change of heart/plan by Paizo is still possible.Purple Duck Games is working on a new game that basically appears to be a PF 1.5. Of course, they don't seem to be set up to do things at the same scale as Paizo.
Paizo wasn't exactly set up to do things the same scale as paizo after the initial 4e release either though
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I'll miss NPC's who are built the same way as PC's.
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I have absolutely zero intention of playing PF2E. I've read the rules, kept up with the updates, and it is something I want nothing to do with. I don't like bounded accuracy, being assigned my ability scores, the inclusion of goblins as a core ancestry, non-Lawful Good 'Paladins', and how many pools of various points I have to keep up with. The only way Paizo will ever be getting any more of my money is if I buy softback versions of the PF1E books. I will keep playing PF1E until there are simply no people left who want to play it. Whether that happens in a year, five years, or fifteen years I don't know, but I switched to Pathfinder from 3.5 because I didn't want to change editions in the first place. That includes editions of Pathfinder.
Maybe this makes me the spiteful kid who hears we're moving and hopes the new house burns down so we can keep living in the old house.
I wonder what the chances of Paizo anthologising their old Pathfinder Adventure Paths a la Runelords or Crimson Throne now the system is in its dying days. Probably not high, it'd make me happy, though.
Currently buying up all my desired hardcovers before they go OOP.
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I'm going to miss a few things. First, the sense that paizo valued their core playerbase. Paizo won't even put one guy on releasing p1 content? They can't even do one book a year? Come on. That's a huge middle finger to the core base that followed them for an improved 3.5 - not a virtually new and very different system.
I'm going to miss the excitement of cracking open a new pdf and starting to read through it. P2 is incredibly unappealing to me, especially the action changes, the segregation of basic common abilities, the multiclassing, and the lack of backward compatibility. So I won't be buying any new hard copies or pdfs for the foreseeable future. On that note I'm also going to miss avoiding 3pp content. With official content ending its inevitable that most p1 groups will slowly incorporate more and more homebrew / 3pp content.
I'm also going to miss the already limited amount of errata and faqs the p1 system received. It's very likely that any unanswered questions will remain that way forever now.
*sigh*
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With regards to anthologies, it probably depends on if they will need to start selling Pathfinder Classic to make ends meet.
Although, giving the brawler a no-penalty flurry would be a welcomed decision. The class already suffers from being a full BAB class that does not have a built in method of improving its attack. I’m not sure why we ever got a class that would be flurry of misses 2.0.
I'm going to miss dwarven movement speed.
As it stands now, 10ft movement in Full Plate, because I want to still resemble a dwarf as much as possible.
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I'm going to miss a few things. First, the sense that paizo valued their core playerbase. Paizo won't even put one guy on releasing p1 content? They can't even do one book a year? Come on. That's a huge middle finger to the core base that followed them for an improved 3.5 - not a virtually new and very different system.
One guy simply cannot produce 1E content to the standard Paizo expects. It takes a team.
I will miss PF1. I'm not currently a fan of PF2, though I'm still going through the play test, but will likely not get a chance to play PF1 again.
The math behind PF2 sets up a systems in which characters feel like they are sub-par, even when you've done everything you can to optimize them for a specific task.
I don't remotely feel heroic. And in terms of the damage department, it's very upsetting that we've become more dependent on magic items for damage instead of less. Almost all damage these days comes from an awesome weapon, instead of an awesome character. I absolutely hate that. I feel like I should be playing a magic item whose story is about finding some schmuck to help you along in your quest.
I've said all that to say that despite this issues with PF2, the greater will of my gaming group wants to march along with PF2...which means I will most likely break step with them and probably stop gaming in any sort of Pathfidner system. We still have a Starfinder game going, which I'm enjoying greatly by comparison. Buy yeah, I"m going to miss it because I wont spend time and effort on a system that I don't enjoy. I've already tried that and done it with other systems that I hated (Numenera as an example).
I've already learned the lessons that trying to play along with a system I hate only makes me resentful and angry towards the game, the GM, and players around me. It makes me not a fun person. And while my friends don't want to alienate me, in those occasions I'm sure I made the experience worse and not better. I wont do that again.
And so, unless PF2 changes drastically between now and release, I probably wont play it. And I don't honestly expect it to change drastically.
I just have to face the facts that Paizo and Pathfinder aren't for me anymore.
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AP hardcovers require months and months of lead time -- both RotRL and CotCT were announced more than six months in advance. That's because AP hardcovers are a huge amount of work. It's not just slapping six modules together in new covers. It's new art, more plot, editing, sidebars, tweaks, fixes, inclusion of new system material that has come out since the AP was published... hundreds and hundreds of-hours of work.
Putting aside the question of whether it would be a good business decision for Paizo to ask us to plunk down $75-100 for a hardcover adventure in a system that is literally about to
diecommit suicide, they couldn't do it even if they wanted to. There's not enough time left between now and the launch of PF2, and they're just way too busy.Doug M.
FTFY.
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I think pf2 would have been more well received if it built on PF1 instead of rebuilding so much. But there may be other reasons for changing so much. They may be trying to get out from restraints of the srd.
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PF2 may be good or bad, may succeed or fail, but at some point Paizo has to jump off the sinking ship and hope for the best. It's a risk, but a necessary one. The alternative would be to end up like TSR, or at best like Steve Jackson -- a tiny niche company producing endless dreary, silly supplements for the Munchkin card game.
You're not unhappy because PF committed suicide. You're unhappy because Paizo refused to commit suicide for you.
Personally, I'm unhappy because I think PF2e in its current form is a bad game. To my mind, Paizo would have been much better off with an evolutionary PF2e which they could have sold as a "new" game to non-PF players and which would have been more appealing to most current PF players.
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Well...
Due to circumstances I've never actually been able to play Pathfinder with a group regularly; just a couple one shots.
What's kept me interested since 2015 is theory crafting. When I started there was just a wealth of options to draw from. It took a lot of time and commitment to learn the rules, the different options, and piece everything together.
Reading and rereading all the books made theory crafting so fun since you can make just about any concept work. Particularly enticing was that no build was ever perfect or complete, and could always use continual refinement
I like that the rules are so convoluted because it makes builds so much fun to create. PF2 is less enticing because of the simpler rules, and the lack of variety compared to what I'm used to.
So I will miss how dynamic and active these forums are with all the geeks.
This reminds me of a conversation I had years ago with a friend.
Back in the 90s, the UK introduced a lottery. I had a very analytically minded friend who started buying a ticket every week. I asked him why, given the odds. He said "Ah, I'm not just buying a chance of winning, I'm buying an excuse to daydream all week about what I'd buy if I won!"
For me PF1 provides a ton of excuse to daydream and theorycraft character ideas, far beyond the weekly game if even if you aren't actively in a game. I'd miss not having that.
I don't actually believe what I'm about to say. Maybe I just feel snarky right now.
GURPS is on its fourth edition.
...and has been for 14 years, with no sign of planning a fifth.
Of course, you could argue...
...like Steve Jackson -- a tiny niche company producing endless dreary, silly supplements for the Munchkin card game.
...just like some other game company could produce some other product endlessly, like... I don't know... Adventure Paths? Campaign Setting books? Player Companions? Minis? And a host of other products that sell well? Would that be such a tiny niche? Paizo existed before PFRPG, after all.
<ahem> Okay, I got that out of my system. Just for the record, I'm not denying that Paizo should make a second edition. Maybe Steve Jackson Games just isn't a good example, that's all.
For all our snark, folks on both sides of this quote are grieving.I understand grieving. I'm going to be a little melancholy myself. But a lot of what I'm seeing isn't grieving, but whining. How dare Paizo take my toys away! This is a huge middle finger! They OBVIOUSLY don't care about us anymore! And then half a dozen +1s to the whine-post. WTH, people.
Every one of those people is a paying customer who will vote with their wallet.
Right now my wallet is voting for 3rd party publishers. Once I have all the PF1 content in that arena, my wallet will move on to voting for additional resources that I've been too busy to invest in for the past decade.
I'll probably get back into paining miniatures and making terrain from scratch. 3D printing has come a long way in recent years, I can really step up my game with a $200 printer.
What I won't be doing is purchasing PF2.
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It’s a problem of Pathfinder being built on a player base that didn’t want to abandon their previous version. And for the most part, Pathfinder was just 3rd edition, with a few bells and whistles added. If P2 was also just a small change, then people may not have been so upset. But instead, it’s just the same bitterness as when D&D moved to 4th, and changed everything.
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If P2 was also just a small change, then people may not have been so upset. But instead, it’s just the same bitterness as when D&D moved to 4th, and changed everything.
I just realized this perfectly sums up my feeling and experience.
This transition feels a lot like the transition from 3.5 to 4.0 for me, which resulted in me going to another game system (or rather a mostly the same system).
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It’s a problem of Pathfinder being built on a player base that didn’t want to abandon their previous version. And for the most part, Pathfinder was just 3rd edition, with a few bells and whistles added. If P2 was also just a small change, then people may not have been so upset. But instead, it’s just the same bitterness as when D&D moved to 4th, and changed everything.
Yep, feels exactly the same to me. Wizards threw everyone overboard (Including Paizo) to go a completely different direction....that's what is happening now. But like I said in another thread....I have enough material to play for many years, so when all is said and done everything is fine. I'm just a bit sad at the direction things have gone.
-- based on the witch splatbook and the rules introduced there,
Sorry, somewhat off topic, what is the witch splatbook? I think I need it. Can you give the title?
Thanks.
-- based on the witch splatbook and the rules introduced there,Sorry, somewhat off topic, what is the witch splatbook? I think I need it. Can you give the title?
Thanks.
Have you seen Blood of the Coven?
This is the one i can think of.
Have you seen Blood of the Coven?
This is the one i can think of.
Yes, I have that one, thanks.
I did wonder if that was the book being referenced. I am still a little disappointed that that book did not give us any new hexes. Opportunity lost.
If P2 was also just a small change, then people may not have been so upset. But instead, it’s just the same bitterness as when D&D moved to 4th, and changed everything.I just realized this perfectly sums up my feeling and experience.
This transition feels a lot like the transition from 3.5 to 4.0 for me, which resulted in me going to another game system (or rather a mostly the same system).
Interestingly enough, I was initially quite hostile to 4e, until I was forced by my DM to adopt it, and then I found out that I absolutely loved those mechanics, especially with the DM"s access to Hero Lab... maybe I'll have a similar good suprise with pf2?
My love of Starfinder, and the Paizo Advantage, will keep me buying Pathfinder APs, whichever edition they're printed for.
Just to reiterate from the Twitch stream last week, the playtest is not 2nd edition. It's a playtest. Does the playtest seen so radically different from PF? No doubt. But I feel a collective breath should be taken before declaring Paizo dead.
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Just to reiterate from the Twitch stream last week, the playtest is not 2nd edition. It's a playtest. Does the playtest seen so radically different from PF? No doubt. But I feel a collective breath should be taken before declaring Paizo dead.
Don't worry, I fully expect a solid cohort of people to continue the dance for ten years until in 2028, when Paizo announces PF3, they'll be able to make the "I was right all along: PF2 was dead on arrival!" threads.
Man, for a thread that opens with "let's not talk about PF2", there is a lot of PF2 talk.
Anyway, one I lament about moving on is a few specific characters I wanted to play. Namely my Beast Rider Gendarme and the Ki Throw Monk. Pathfinder had a lot of options that spurred on my creativity, but being the consummate GM, I rarely actually get to play.
I look forward to PF2 though. I'm planning on converting a lot of material to the new edition, but the key differences in how they run will certainly require some nuance in how I adapt things.
It's also why I mentioned Steve Jackson Games as one possible outcome.
Sayeth I: the only reason GURPS isn't the dominant game is because players will always remain gaga for their multiple types of funny-sided dice -- and SJG stubbornly insists on boring 3d6 for everything.
I don't think FFG's Star Wars is a better RPG than anything else out there, but I like it just because the dice are such a tactile joy to fool around with. Who doesn't love a big, meaty paw full of d12s covered in inscrutable squiggles?
Staying on topic, I think I am going to find the production schedule ahead a bit of a bummer.
Even if Paizo tries some different things for the new release schedule, or if they give us some double-size bestiaries etc, a lot of the effort for the next few years is going to have to be devoted to bringing PF 1E content into PF 2E (guns, witches, monsters,prestige archetypes, basic setting information) which means less novel classes, monsters, or other options.
I am sure we will be getting some new stuff mixed in of course, but a lot will be like the above.
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Blah blah it's OLD blah
Yeah, I've heard the spiel. Old is bad. New is good. Right on. 9_9
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The old wizard opposed schools is another thing I'll miss from 1e. I'm a fan of wizards (with archetypes in PF1), and one thing that always drew me into the character building was explaining why the wizard wouldn't focus on 2 schools of magic and would narrow in on one. Having mechanics to back up that lack of focus and even reward it was cool. I especially liked thassilonian style forbidden schools for opening up finding creative magical ways around the routes permanently blocked off.
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Interestingly enough, I was initially quite hostile to 4e, until I was forced by my DM to adopt it, and then I found out that I absolutely loved those mechanics, especially with the DM"s access to Hero Lab... maybe I'll have a similar good suprise with pf2?If P2 was also just a small change, then people may not have been so upset. But instead, it’s just the same bitterness as when D&D moved to 4th, and changed everything.I just realized this perfectly sums up my feeling and experience.
This transition feels a lot like the transition from 3.5 to 4.0 for me, which resulted in me going to another game system (or rather a mostly the same system).
For me, at least with PF2, it's the opposite situation. I was pretty hyped about PF2 in the beginning. The more play testing I do the less and less I enjoy the game.
I just feel more and more frustrated with it. You advance in level, but you never get any better relative to your enemies. That's my biggest gripe. Yeah PF1 characters were too powerful, but now we've gone too far in the other direction. I feel lame when ~30% of rounds I don't land a successful blow as a martial character. I don't ever feel heroic or accomplished in this system, and I realize now that is what I enjoyed most in PF1. Right now I just feel like I'm climbing a treadmill of mediocrity, with little incentive to actually level up since relative to my enemies I never really get any better.