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I see way more people sticking with PF1 than moving to PF2, with the current iteration. So, your PF1 will live on for a long time. You may just have to start embracing some 3rd party providers.
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I'm not going to miss PF1. It is going to take a LONG time before I consider switching over to PF2, possibly a decade or more. Might skip over it entirely for PF3. It simply does not appeal to me. Let the newer generation have fun with their new toys and fuel the flame that paves the way for progress. I did that when I switched from 3.5 to PF1. I have no interest in doing it again.
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I'm gonna stay at PF1. There's more than enough content to keep me occupied mechanically, I have plenty of character ideas to make, and I haven't scratched the surface on modules and adventure paths.
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I'm not going to miss it, I still have my books.
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I will miss seeing which new books are out each month. Half the fun was seeing which new things they are creating and getting new toys to play with.
The game itself i wont miss, since i fully intend to keep playing it.
Maybe i will finally actually check out 3rd party content.
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Our group will just keep on playing PF1. At our current rate we'll have APs for another two decades :-)
Perhaps we'll have to look more to 3PP for new rules options but well, doesn't matter to me. Or we'll explore home brew rules.
Despite this I hope the PF2 will be a great success. Paizo has brought our group maaaaaany hours of fun gaming.
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I will still be playing PF1 for years.
I have enough content for last decades and have lately been buying up 3rd party content at a considerable markdown. Enough to last a few extra decades, just in case.
I've always been behind in getting up to date. My group and I didn't convert to PF until it was running strong for 3 years. We were pissed that 4e blew up and shat all over the Forgotten Realms lore so we were not giving Wotc our money.
In fact, my own campaign, using 3.5, only just ended in 2014. My friend's campaign ended 2013 (3/3.5), so we've both only both just STARTED running pure PF rules for the last 4 and a half years. Another friend who starts hot but burns out quick GMing did 2 home brew PF campaigns and Kingmaker, but never finished any of them.
I've just been hitting eBay lately and have now bought up at a big discount 4 APs, I'm getting The current AP, Council of thieves is one play session away from finishing, then we'll play ROTRL, so for us, PF is going strong!
You can still find quite a few 3.5 games online, like on Roll20. I expect PF1 to be the same way. It will never die out completely. But the audience will slowly grow smaller and smaller.
Plenty of people convert 3.5 (and older!) games to PF. I'm not that up on PF2 news, but is it really going to be that difficult to convert mechanics from PF1 to PF2?
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You know what I'll miss most Doug Moira McTaggert's Island? I'll miss these forums.
You made a good point that a new edition rapidly consumes the spotlight of older ones, even if people still play them. I've used these boards now for nearly a decade specifically to get help with PF1. I've made a couple genuine online friends here, my game and GMing have vastly improved, and my functional understanding of WHY the RAW is what it is has given me insight I wouldn't have had in the vacuum of the social and intellectual bubble around my own live play groups over that time.
As we move on to the new edition there will be scant few folks who want to keep hashing out how Rogues can be replaced by wizards, why fighters don't get nice things, and the most optimal Halfling sling build. If I'm one of the minority that chooses to stay behind in PF1 I'll lose so much of that online community.
My world will be that much smaller once more.
In your analogy Douglas, about moving to the new house, I'm the pet cat that disappears during the loading of the car on moving day. I dart off to play with my backyard, choosing to stay where I've been happy, but when I return home in the evening my family is gone, my house is empty. I am alone. Sure, there might be new people moving in but they're not MY people.
Change is hard. choosing to remain in the old in the face of the new is not always noble. Sometimes it is lonely, frightening and fraught with pain. I will not miss new adventures, splatbooks and all the pretty things that Paizo has created for me. I have enough material yet to get to, between their excellent work, that of Frog God Games, Kickstarters full of material I've purchased and so on that I will likely be able to last another decade more on what already exists without having to create anymore myself, though I have done that too.
But I'll miss all of you.
: (
You said what I'll bet many of us are thinking.
Plenty of people convert 3.5 (and older!) games to PF. I'm not that up on PF2 news, but is it really going to be that difficult to convert mechanics from PF1 to PF2?
It's a much bigger jump than from 3.5 to PF1, so it will certainly be harder to convert. But I'm sure that some people will take up the task for some of the APs and the such, especially the earlier ones.
But with the popularity of the high number of classes and archetypes in PF1, it will probably be a long time till a lot of the PF1 characters can be properly converted.
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You know what I'll miss most Doug Moira McTaggert's Island? I'll miss these forums.
You made a good point that a new edition rapidly consumes the spotlight of older ones, even if people still play them. I've used these boards now for nearly a decade specifically to get help with PF1. I've made a couple genuine online friends here, my game and GMing have vastly improved, and my functional understanding of WHY the RAW is what it is has given me insight I wouldn't have had in the vacuum of the social and intellectual bubble around my own live play groups over that time.
As we move on to the new edition there will be scant few folks who want to keep hashing out how Rogues can be replaced by wizards, why fighters don't get nice things, and the most optimal Halfling sling build. If I'm one of the minority that chooses to stay behind in PF1 I'll lose so much of that online community.
My world will be that much smaller once more.
In your analogy Douglas, about moving to the new house, I'm the pet cat that disappears during the loading of the car on moving day. I dart off to play with my backyard, choosing to stay where I've been happy, but when I return home in the evening my family is gone, my house is empty. I am alone. Sure, there might be new people moving in but they're not MY people.
Change is hard. choosing to remain in the old in the face of the new is not always noble. Sometimes it is lonely, frightening and fraught with pain. I will not miss new adventures, splatbooks and all the pretty things that Paizo has created for me. I have enough material yet to get to, between their excellent work, that of Frog God Games, Kickstarters full of material I've purchased and so on that I will likely be able to last another decade more on what already exists without having to create anymore myself, though I have done that too.
But I'll miss all of you.
: (
You said what I'll bet many of us are thinking.
I don't plan on going anywhere.
But I'll miss all of you.
I'm willing to bet they'll keep a forum subheading for 1e because of the sheer number of players who will stick with it or play both it and 2e. Or, everyone could just move to the "Off Topic" forum and keep in touch and share 1e ideas there.
Perhaps you need to make your question clearer than, because I thought we had.
I suspect that in the end, pf2 will be a decent system, but I doubt that will be enough to draw many people to it, at least in the short term. The problem is that pf2 is not the only option you have when moving away from PF1. The big gorilla in the room is D&D5. And many people will probably transition to it instead of going to pf2. Its extreme popularity combined with relative maturity makes it too tempting for those leaving PF1.
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But I'll miss all of you.
Even me?
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I'll miss that Paizo missed a chance to do an evolutionary PF1.5 and instead decided to do a PF2 which is a very new and different game from what preceded it. However, I hold out hope that a change of heart/plan by Paizo is still possible.
I guess that if they wanted to go revolutionary in the new system (I know nothing about PF), a middle of the way system between the old and the new would simply have been too much trouble to implement... D&D 3.5 was not a midway to D&D4, it was an improvement on d&d3.0, much as PF1 is an improvement on 3.5.
@Melkiador. What do you mean with the "relative maturity" of D&D5? Surely, it's not that the game is for mature players? OTOH, I don't know what "maturity" may mean when applied to game design.
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Plenty of people convert 3.5 (and older!) games to PF. I'm not that up on PF2 news, but is it really going to be that difficult to convert mechanics from PF1 to PF2?
maybe not, but why would one do it? for all intents and purposes PF2 is the inferior product to PF1 and the more pressing question is how difficult it will be to convert PF2 material back to PF1.
I'll miss the trait system. I know that it was broken, even if not always for my group, but I really liked that particular aspect of fine-tuned customization. It gave room to throw in a couple of nifty quirks here and there, like being good at an unusual skill, it had a couple of easy catch-all traits that fit with most backgrounds when I couldn't find what I wanted in the system, gave benefits that were small enough they were usually fine but just big enough to feel like my character had an edge over the rest.
There were problem traits, where abilities estimated at 1/2 a feat were disproportionately more useful than any feat or were really cool thematically but would not really help, but I expect unbalanced material in any game system, especially with PF1's rate of content production. Those could be worked around easily enough for my group, and the rest were really nice.
Traits are replaced with backgrounds now, which are nice but are a lot more of an investment than traits ever were. I like backgrounds, but they will never satisfyingly replace traits for me.
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Well...
Due to circumstances I've never actually been able to play Pathfinder with a group regularly; just a couple one shots.
What's kept me interested since 2015 is theory crafting. When I started there was just a wealth of options to draw from. It took a lot of time and commitment to learn the rules, the different options, and piece everything together.
Reading and rereading all the books made theory crafting so fun since you can make just about any concept work. Particularly enticing was that no build was ever perfect or complete, and could always use continual refinement
I like that the rules are so convoluted because it makes builds so much fun to create. PF2 is less enticing because of the simpler rules, and the lack of variety compared to what I'm used to.
So I will miss how dynamic and active these forums are with all the geeks.
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Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what they do with the forums. I think they pretty much have to hive off the 1e stuff into its own forum, otherwise it's going to get a bit confusing.
But anyway, "I'm not going to miss it because I plan to keep playing it!" was not really the response I was looking for. I mean, ten years is a good run for any edition of an RPG. (19 years, if you add in 3 / 3.5). If PF2 sucks, that's different. But if 2e is a good system, but we all cling to PF1 because we love it so much and we don't want to change, what happens to Paizo?
Anyway. A dozen responses, but only one answer ("these forums") from ElderNightmare. Does anyone else want to respond to the OP question?
Doug M.
P2 does NOT seem to be a good system, as far as I can tell - it certaintly hasn't much in common with 3.5 and Pathfinder.
Something new doesn't always replace something old, unless it is better - New Coke comes to mind. 4E was new and shiny, and look what happened.
Good Gaming to You all, whatever your preferred system may be:-)
The Paizo messageboards have a forum for every past and present edition of D&D, so why wouldn't they keep separate forums for PF1 and PF2?
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I'll miss that Paizo missed a chance to do an evolutionary PF1.5 and instead decided to do a PF2 which is a very new and different game from what preceded it. However, I hold out hope that a change of heart/plan by Paizo is still possible.
Purple Duck Games is working on a new game that basically appears to be a PF 1.5. Of course, they don't seem to be set up to do things at the same scale as Paizo.
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But anyway, "I'm not going to miss it because I plan to keep playing it!" was not really the response I was looking for. I mean, ten years is a good run for any edition of an RPG. (19 years, if you add in 3 / 3.5). If PF2 sucks, that's different. But if 2e is a good system, but we all cling to PF1 because we love it so much and we don't want to change, what happens to Paizo?
Paizo will do just fine with the newer generation of players that will come to support it. As I stated in my post, I am content with the vast library of materials that I have access to (between 3.5 and PF1, which are quite easy to convert) and it is highly unlikely that PF2 will garner my attention. I hardly gave 4e D&D a passing glance (I played a few games, have the Core books) and gave 5e D&D a more of look see, but none of them appealed to me. Aside from 'borrowing' a few ideas from 5e D&D (multiclassing spellcasters, for example), the new editions offer me nothing I don't already have.
I am at a stage in my life (33) that I already know what I like, have a very solid foundation of material under me, and a core group of friends that share my interests in Pathfinder. If I need to skip out on a few generations of new roleplaying table top games, until the pendulum swings back towards my style of gameplay, I am more than fine with doing so. I have other interests outside of Pathfinder, other mediums of games and entertainment that will peak my interests, that I am more than willing to let the younger generation succeed or fail at their attempts to evolve the game.
Anyway. A dozen responses, but only one answer ("these forums") from ElderNightmare. Does anyone else want to respond to the OP question.
Eh, I suppose I could entertain the idea of moving on past PF1 and hypothesize on what I would miss. New material that tickles my imagination. The forums are a good place to visit, but after so long you see the same kinds of trends and repeated questions. I tend to gravitate towards more of the setting and world building side of things, rather than the mechanics. Most of all, I will miss the customization aspects that archetypes, multi-classing, and prestige classing affords players and GM's with a good foundational knowledge of the game. Its the very reason I came to PF1 from 3.5e D&D. Sure, over time, PF2 might reach a level of customization that would flag my interests, but it would need to be substantial (or easily convertible) for me to invest in it.
Besides, Herolab has spoiled me on character creation...
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I'll miss new AP's and books coming out. But beyond that we plan to keep playing PF1 for a good long time.
We have all the AP's (few holes to fill in some of them), and I'm actually looking through modules that look to be interesting. I assume they will keep selling 1E stuff digitally for a while....so we have plenty to work with for a good long time.
I would have liked more information on Arcadia....but beyond that...we can keep our group going for many years to come.
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I can't, in all honesty, say what I'd miss because I haven't even looked at the playtest documents. I would have to see them first. But just going by what I have heard about them, and I don't know reliable this is, What I'd miss most is the ability to customize characters down to the nails in their boots.
Organized Play Developer
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I can't, in all honesty, say what I'd miss because I haven't even looked at the playtest documents. I would have to see them first. But just going by what I have heard about them, and I don't know reliable this is, What I'd miss most is the ability to customize characters down to the nails in their boots.
I told Mark we were going to regret not including more rules for cobbling!
In Dungeon #150, Christopher West was able to make a full-page Lands of Mystery for all of the Maps of Mystery he'd made for Dungeon throughout the years. He told us to take this map and run with it.
I did.
I made an entire campaign setting out of it. I'm at page 150 so far, incorporating all of my house rules on abilities, races, classes, skills, feats, combat, and magic (following the CRB order). Now I'm writing down the settlements, affiliations, pantheon, units of measurements, and timeline.
But it uses PF1 rules. This creation has been a labor of love for many years, first as an amorphous idea back in 3.0, but has now coalesced into an actual campaign setting . . . using the PF1 ruleset.
I would have to learn PF2 inside and out, play it for a year or so before I felt conversant enough in it to be able to adapt my homebrew world to the new ruleset.
I am loathe to leave my globe behind. So, I guess that puts me in the camp of "My group & I are going to continue to play PF1." But this is the reason why we're going to continue to do so.
@Melkiador. What do you mean with the "relative maturity" of D&D5? Surely, it's not that the game is for mature players? OTOH, I don't know what "maturity" may mean when applied to game design.
It was already a bit touched upon by other replies, but it is about the age of the game and what comes with age. More bugs are worked out. More options are available. More third party options are already working and mostly debugged. And most questions can be asked with a quick google. D&D5 is in a real sweet spot right now.
I don't really know, sure, it's a lot simpler than 3.5 or PF (I know, I just made a 3.5 character, and I know it's woefully ill optimized because I don't have the needed system mastery... and it would be worse if I tried making a PF char), but it has its own set of drawbacks: namely, a well coooordinated group can take on biggish monsters at levels that would have been unthinkably low in previous editions... but the reverse is also true, relatively weak monsters can hurt higher level characters that should be able to mow through them without even thinking. and the option og going nova and having to find 14 hours of non hazardous activities until you can take a long rest again is a bother.
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I'll miss new AP's and books coming out. But beyond that we plan to keep playing PF1 for a good long time.
We have all the AP's (few holes to fill in some of them), and I'm actually looking through modules that look to be interesting. I assume they will keep selling 1E stuff digitally for a while....so we have plenty to work with for a good long time.
I would have liked more information on Arcadia....but beyond that...we can keep our group going for many years to come.
Everything you said! I'll be playing Pathfinder for years to come, so I won't miss it:-)
The new game might end up being good, but it's not to my taste.But I will miss being able to buy the books in full size hardback.
@Melkiador. What do you mean with the "relative maturity" of D&D5? Surely, it's not that the game is for mature players? OTOH, I don't know what "maturity" may mean when applied to game design.It was already a bit touched upon by other replies, but it is about the age of the game and what comes with age. More bugs are worked out. More options are available. More third party options are already working and mostly debugged. And most questions can be asked with a quick google. D&D5 is in a real sweet spot right now.
And it's my fear that we're going to see the opposite with PF2e, where it will be a very buggy game upon its introduction, and that will hurt it in the marketplace. Mind you, I think Paizo could have avoided this by building PF2e more solidly on the PF1e framework and thus taking advantage of a decade's worth of bug identification.
Purple Duck Games is working on a new game that basically appears to be a PF 1.5. Of course, they don't seem to be set up to do things at the same scale as Paizo.
I will have to keep an eye on them. If they can pull it off, I might move in this direction.
Conversion would be relatively simple.
Mind you, I think Paizo could have avoided this by building PF2e more solidly on the PF1e framework and thus taking advantage of a decade's worth of bug identification.
That's the solution I would have preferred, but it might not work for Paizo as a business ...
I'll miss that Paizo missed a chance to do an evolutionary PF1.5 and instead decided to do a PF2 which is a very new and different game from what preceded it. However, I hold out hope that a change of heart/plan by Paizo is still possible.Purple Duck Games is working on a new game that basically appears to be a PF 1.5. Of course, they don't seem to be set up to do things at the same scale as Paizo.
Any info on what they're aiming for?
PF2 will have some bugs, though the playtest is trying to uncover most of these. The bigger problem is usually from very late additions/changes to the rules that don’t get enough quality passes. That attunement mechanic has me particularly concerned as no one ever seems to be happy with it or its changes.
But I’m also afraid there would never be a good on-ramp for pf2. The ideal timing for release might be when people are tiring of 5e, but this would be a hard time to plan for. And it would take at least a year of development for a quality game with 2-3 years being more likely.
So in the long term, this might be a good time to work on pf2, but it’s going to be weird, as in the short term they are probably going to lose a lot of business. But in a few years when 5e is feeling stale, pf2 may be in a place of freshness and maturity, to draw people away.