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While you might risk running out of spells at very early levels, smart use of spells should guarantee smooth encounters. What's more, you rarely cast a spell every round. Once you have a few good ones out, you'll probably be able to sit back and let the martials clean up. That's part of being a wizard, knowing when to delegate.
Though if you're still worried about running out of spells, play a witch. Hexes are unlimited.
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All spellcasters have the possibility of running out of spells. Alchemists run out of extracts and bombs, and while they can make more mutagens when they need to, it takes an hour until much higher level. Clerics run out of spells, domain abilities, and channels. Even cavaliers and brawlers have abilities with a limited number of uses per day, although it can be certainly said that a cavalier never runs out of charge, a brawler never runs out of fist, and a fighter never runs out of stab/slash/bludgeon.
There are two ways to deal with this. One is preparation: take item crafting feats (if allowed) and create scrolls and wands, so that even when you run out of spells you still have backup items. The other is versatility: make sure you have skills that can be used (knowledge skills are wizards' go-to, but you can put ranks in anything you like) when you're out of spells, carry a crossbow with the necessary stats to use it, or use a longspear (if you're not a wizard) with a 10 or 12 strength and move into flanks, use aid another, etc.
Finally, after around 3rd or 4th level, you no longer realistically have to worry about running out of spells and class abilities with that many encounters per day.
Edit: Almost forgot about a witch. Witches never run out of Hex (although they can run out hexes available to use on a specific individual).
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Like Mr.Bird said you don't need to cast spells every round. At lower levels you might run out of spells, but as you get higher in levels you will have many of your spells left over. At least that is my experience as a player and GM. If it's a pushover fight I wont even cast a spell. If I do it will be something like magic missile, just so I can say I did something.
Example: I've use forcewall to split the enemy forces, and watched the martials mow them down. Then I drop the force wall, and watch them kill the other half. Haste is another good spell. If it's a single opponent glitterdust is good for blinding enemies, and it doesn't allow for SR.
Keep some magic items on hand - things like scrolls, or even wands - and you can have something useful to do even in the unlikely event that you entirely run out of spells.
So, I have always loved magic users in video games, If there is a way to be a magic user in a video game I play, I will take the chance to play it. I love magic. But in Pathfinder, I have played a melee Cleric, Two Alchemists, A Cavalier and a Brawler..
I am interested in trying a caster, A full arcane caster like the Wizard, Sorcerer, Arcanist or Witch, But I worry, I worry about running out of spells and being useless for the rest of the day.
It costs a wizard 12.5gp to scribe 1st-level scrolls, so really it's only a problem for your first session. Buy some guard dogs to protect you at low-level (have fun role-playing your crappy Handle Animal score, so the dogs are constantly disobeying you).
elf wizard 20pt
str 7
dex 16+
con 12-
int 19+
wis 14
cha 7
Wise spell usage is key, though like everyone said, at higher levels not so much a problem. If you play an arcanist you can get an some extra exploits. Also you can focus your gold expenditure on pearl's of power.
If all you really want it to continuously blast things and do it all day long, be a kineticist. It's not arcane, but it is fun.
You can warp the fabric of reality to your whim, have an answer to almost any problem with a flick of the wrist, and create entire worlds built to your desires. If that doesn't sell you, then nothing will.
You must have played with some full arcane casters even if you didn't play any yourself. How often have you seen them actually run out of useful spells? (Note that at very low levels even cantrips are useful.)
So, I have always loved magic users in video games, If there is a way to be a magic user in a video game I play, I will take the chance to play it. I love magic. But in Pathfinder, I have played a melee Cleric, Two Alchemists, A Cavalier and a Brawler..
I am intrested in trying a caster, A full arcane caster like the Wizard, Sorcerer, Arcanist or Witch, But I worry, I worry about running out of spells and being useless for the rest of the day.. In our sessions we have about 1-6 encounters per day (When traveling we might have 1 combat encounter per day, When exploring a dungeon we might have 6 in a day)
So, I'd like to ask people to convince me to try a full arcane caster, And ease my worries about running out of spells and being useless..
Well, I'll tell you now that playing magic users in Pathfinder is way different than in a video game. Even then, most magic users in video games have a resource that can (and should) run out if not properly relegated, and is equally true in Pathfinder.
If you are worried about running out of spells (and not so much your spell selection), going Sorcerer will give you the most spells per day, and if you build as a Blaster, you won't have much of a need to specialize in multiple types of spells; usually, one or two different spells is all you'll need for the role you're filling.
To counteract the potential uselessness that you may run into with Immunities and Resistances, I'd suggest taking a 1 level dip into Admixture specialist Wizard, with opposition schools of Enchantment and Necromancy. Or, you can start out with the Admixture specialist Wizard, and then go straight Sorcerer. You'll want a decent Intelligence as well (which isn't a bad thing, so you can have some skill points). Yes, you're delaying your already slower spellcasting progression, but the ability to bypass enemy immunities and resistances with your spells as a blaster more than makes up for it.
For race, go Half Elf with the Multidisciplined trait. This gives you full Sorcerer caster level, and a Wizard caster level of 2, so those spells you would use for, say, Mage Armor or Shield, aren't nearly as short, and are more likely to last an entire combat or adventuring day. Since you'll be primarily a Sorcerer, you can take the Human Favored Class Bonus for additional spells known for utility purposes.
For stats (assuming 20 point buy), I'll recommend the following:
Strength 7
Dexterity 12
Constitution 12
Intelligence 14
Wisdom 8
Charisma 20 (18 + 2)
For your Sorcerer class, I sincerely suggest going Orc bloodline for the +1 per Damage Dice arcana. I also suggest Bloodline Mutations for Blood Havoc, granting an additional +1 per Damage Dice in exchange for your garbage , and Blood Intensity later down the road in place of a bonus feat if you can manage it. You can get the other mutation if you want, but you should have enough feats and bonuses to counteract the need for it.
For feats, take Spell Focus (Evocation), working into Spell Specialization and Varisian Tattoo by 5th level. You'll want some metamagic feats; prime candidates are Empower, Intensify (for when you run out of Blood Intensity, but not really recommended), Selective, Dazing, and Heighten.
The two spells you'll want to focus on are Fireball and Delayed Blast Fireball.
Will post more later tonight; work beckons...
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As a low level sorcerer, I used to keep a crossbow on hand. You can usually judge when a situation isn't dangerous enough to justify using your limited spells.
As a higher level sorcerer, I was unlikely to run out of spells - there are plenty of lower level spells that remain useful - and by this time there are normally scrolls and wands to fall back on.
In our sessions we have about 1-6 encounters per day (When traveling we might have 1 combat encounter per day, When exploring a dungeon we might have 6 in a day)
Are you having 6 dungeon encounters in a day because you are forced to by some urgent deadline, or because the party chooses to go on because they're not running low on resources? You might be able to influence the decision.
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I echo Brew Bird's suggestion of trying a witch. The spell list is a blend of arcane/divine, so you will have some familiar(heh) ground from your cleric experience, and hexes never run out so there's always something to do.
Even during the "mopping up" phase of combat when it's not worth casting a spell, no one's going to be mad you gave a foe -2 AC or something.
Wizards can be extremely strong, but you need a decent level of mastery to get them to that point. I personally tend to avoid them nowadays because I've found they can make the game less fun for the GM and other players.
At early levels it can be rough, but with smart spell selection you really only need to cast 1 or 2 spells per combat and then let the martial characters do their thing.
This means don't select damage dealing spells.
You want spells that have persisting effects that make it easier for the martials to clean up. Summoning spells and battlefield control are the best selections.
Look up Treantmonk's guide on building a god wizard.
Sleep is always a nice one at low levels
and Grease can be surprsingly helpful when used creatively.
I have actualy never played in a party with a full arcane caster either.. I'v played in two campaigns. The main Campaign that I'm still I have had a Oracle (Now dead) Druid (Left the group) Alchemist (Player had to stop playing due to RL problems) Rogue (Who multiclassed into sorcerer for a level) Ranger, Investigator, Bloodrager and a Magus (Oh, And another Rogue, The player who used to play Alchemist at the start, And who once more left us due to RL problems) as party members.
And in the second campaign I joined (That ended once we reached level 2) my party members where a Monk, a Bard and a Ninja.
I know I wouldent be able to play as in a video game.. And as to why we have up to 6 encounters in a dungeon, Last dungeon we where in we had to rush to stop a orc ambassador from freeing a ancient evil that would throw the entire continent into a undead war. And we only barley made it in time to stop him (Well, We had to leave the dungeon for a bit after our Oracle died to pick up his Bloodrager replacement, And we got lost in the dungeon for a bit..)
Edit: Oh! Could someone recomend some useful spells for a Witch or Wizard?
Ok so then tell yourself the wizard's spellcasting is like the druid's, but his spells are generally more powerful, and his pet is smaller.
The top 5 spells of level 1 are probly the following:
Grease
Sleep
Color spray (This is the best spell for levels 1-3)
Enlarge Person
Mage armor
If you have those, you can do pretty much anything.
If you've never played a full caster, might I recommend arcanist? their spell selection is more organic, and if you grab flame arc or ice missiles as an exploit with a feat, coupled with the twilight sage archetype, you will most probably never run out of magickz.
Plus it's fun to ask your party members ''STOP! Don,t kill him I have to recycle him!!!''
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You won't run out of spells. Let's start with the assumption that this is possible, and then work out how.
You mention up to six encounters per day. This obviously depends on the campaign, so it's good that you know your GM already. In my experience the average combat is three or four rounds. With a big party (like yours: six people) this tends to decrease, and if you have more encounters per day they tend to be shorter to compensate. So let's go with an average of three rounds per combat (feel free to adjust my math since you know your GM; the principle still stands).
So if you can get eighteen spells per day, that means that on your longest adventuring day, you can cast a spell every round and never run out. How do we get there?
- It's easiest with a sorcerer. Level six sorcerer gets 18 spells per day (14 base, +4 from high cha), boom, done.
- Level six wizard gets eight baseline, +3 for specialization, +4 for high intelligence, +1 from arcane bond, +2 from pearls of power (assuming normal WBL, these are easily affordable by now). So that's also eighteen.
- Level five cleric has it easy if you count Channel Energy as a spell, either as team healer or with a variant channel debuff. 6 baseline, 3 domain, 3 wisdom, 6 channels equals eighteen.
At levels below six, we've got a couple options:
- The first is cantrips. At low levels, Daze and Disrupt Undead, in particular, are good options in combat. They have infinite use, of course.
- Scrolls are cheap. Carry a bunch of them around.
- School powers and bloodline powers. Most of them don't scale particularly well, but at low levels you get half a dozen free castings of Magic Missile (or equivalent) per day.
- Finally, bear in mind that we're aiming for your longest day, most days will probably be shorter than that.
So yes, you can play a full caster who doesn't run out of spells. Try it some time, you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Look up Treantmonk's guide on building a god wizard.
Also look up the "Blockbuster" wizard guide (for the other side of the argument), and pull from both.
(The only wizard I ever built was elf, about 60% blaster and 40% god/utility, with a hawk familiar for super Perception. Starting with Teleportation-forcus helps a lot. Pure "god" would be stronger at high level, but that's typically just a matter of retraining feats. In the meantime, just ending some encounters with a single spell is iconic and hella fun. Blaster also eases your GM's worries that you're going to "break" everything by spamming divination magic -- you can *easily* be totally overpowering once 4th-level spells come online.)
The elf race gives longbow proficiency so you can be an archer too. Fire up spells when you need them and in the meantime add to combat from a safe distance.
witch is great for that. Pick up extra hex first level and go with something like misfortune and cackle and you'll have something to do every round. I played a witch and right from first level never felt like i was "out of magic"
Play unchained summoner it's more balanced.
Although there will still be moments when you can wreck an encounter :-)
As an exemple, our summoner last game trivialised an encounter with a tight corridor that was greased to lure you in a pool with snapjaw turtles. She simply summoned a small water elemental inside the pool, then we had turtle soup.
Just a little something to add:
I've seen a few people recommending a Sorcerer for the Spell Per Day advantage. With all things equal, a Sorcerer will have more spells per day than a Wizard. However, all things are not equal.
For one, the Wizard has a more useful (out of the box) casting stat and can dump Charisma without impacting skills in most (or all) cases, especially with carefully picked traits.
Second, the wizard will get more mileage out of the Arcane Bond than the (Arcane) Sorcerer will, since the Wizard can cast any spell in his spellbook with it while the Sorcerer can cast any spell he knows.
Consequently, the Wizard actually starts out equal to or ahead of the Sorcerer in spells per day with the sorcerer pulling ahead around level 6 or so, when you
At level 1, the Sorcerer will have 5 to the Wizard's 5.
At level 2, the Sorcerer will have 6 to the Wizard's 6.
At level 3, the Sorcerer will have 7 to the Wizard's 9.
At level 4, the Sorcerer will have 12 to the Wizard's 11.
At level 5, the Sorcerer will have 13 to the Wizard's 14.
At level 6, the Sorcerer will have 18 to the Wizard's 16.
At level 7, the Sorcerer will have 20 to the Wizard's 20.
The Sorcerer keeps the advantage after level 7. If you are an Arcane Bloodline Sorcerer with the Arcane Bond, add 1 spell per day.
Also, the wizard gets access to higher level spells earlier than the Sorcerer, giving him a Spell Level Per Day advantage.
On a different note, if you are allowed retraining rules, you can retrain your Acid Dart (or similar Wizard ability) into something useful after that ability stops pulling its weight.
To be fair AlastarOG, Couldent a Cleric with Summon Monster memorised, Or any caster with access to Summon Monster realy, Have done the same thing? So it wouldent be because it was a summoner. (Not trying to argue or say you are wrong, Just making an observation!)
The major advantage that a Summoner has over other spellcasters who can cast Summon Monster spells is that in most cases he can cast his Summon Monster spell-like ability as a standard action. To everyone else, that spell has a full round casting time.
And minutes per level, not rounds
Don't worry about ruining your friends' fun. As long as people aren't focused to the point where they compete to outshine in the same area you're fine. If you play your summoner, yes a cleric can also summon, but you will be better at it. It will be your moment to shine, though he can support you if you need it.
Full Casters are about bringing different options to the table. If you want to be the one to out think situations play a wizard. With a little prep a wizard can answer almost any situation.
Summoner it going to let you counter being outnumbered to an extent. Depending on your build it could be about your versatility in a fight. I have seen some summoners, who for the most part ignore their eidolon and would summon the exact right creature to overcome resistances and the like.
Sorcerers get a few cool side powers and some spells that they can fling around multiple times. Easier to manage than a wizard, though a wizard with pearls of power can achieve the same excess of spells.
Play what sounds fun. You'll have the character for a while. I am of the opinion that there are no bad party combos, it may just take more creativity to overcome obstacles for some parties than others.
I've never run out spells with wizard. Sorcerer I have but not wizard. The reason, scribe scroll is class feature. 25 gp to and day to scribe a 1st level spell. Even starting at first level keep 25 gp to craft a scroll. Petition you party as the scrolls help them too.
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Vis the comment about playing a Kineticist if you want to blast all day long, this is largely correct. But a Kinny has real problems when you start running into critters with spell resistance. Either accept that, or plan around it. Egil's plan is acquire a +1 Bane Outsider (Evil) Light Crossbow; that should take care of the majority of critters he runs into with SR.
Witches never run out of hexes. Also a wand of Ill Omen costs 750, has 50 charges, and is still effective until spell resistance kicks in(high levels so you have all the spell slots anyway). Another fairly cheap item(5050gp) staff of entwined serpents gives endless magic missiles.At low levels your typically only a +2 or +3 behind with ranged attacks. This means you can often contribute fine with a crossbow, school/bloodline power, or cantrips. Most encounters you only need to cast 1-3 spells(avg 2). Typically lv3+ I only run out on really long days(6+ fights).
Vis the comment about playing a Kineticist if you want to blast all day long, this is largely correct. But a Kinny has real problems when you start running into critters with spell resistance. Either accept that, or plan around it.
Spell resistance doesn't apply against physical blasts, such as Air, Earth, or Water.
If you want to play a caster that never runs out of spells, play a Witch. They will run out of "spells" per day if you do nothing but cast spells, but Witches have Hexes. Hexes never run out. There are some Hexes that cannot be recasted on a person if they have previously resisted it, but there are feats/spells to help with that too. Witches are an extremely versatile class, and "always have an answer to any problem" that is on-par with the Wizard/Cleric/Druid.
If you're not sold on Witch, I'd definitely recommend Wizard. You get a lot of spells per day, but the awesome thing about a Wizard is SCROLLS.