Convince me to give full arcane casters a try, And ease my worries


Advice


So, I have always loved magic users in video games, If there is a way to be a magic user in a video game I play, I will take the chance to play it. I love magic. But in Pathfinder, I have played a melee Cleric, Two Alchemists, A Cavalier and a Brawler..

I am intrested in trying a caster, A full arcane caster like the Wizard, Sorcerer, Arcanist or Witch, But I worry, I worry about running out of spells and being useless for the rest of the day.. In our sessions we have about 1-6 encounters per day (When traveling we might have 1 combat encounter per day, When exploring a dungeon we might have 6 in a day)

So, I'd like to ask people to convince me to try a full arcane caster, And ease my worries about running out of spells and being useless..


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While you might risk running out of spells at very early levels, smart use of spells should guarantee smooth encounters. What's more, you rarely cast a spell every round. Once you have a few good ones out, you'll probably be able to sit back and let the martials clean up. That's part of being a wizard, knowing when to delegate.

Though if you're still worried about running out of spells, play a witch. Hexes are unlimited.


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All spellcasters have the possibility of running out of spells. Alchemists run out of extracts and bombs, and while they can make more mutagens when they need to, it takes an hour until much higher level. Clerics run out of spells, domain abilities, and channels. Even cavaliers and brawlers have abilities with a limited number of uses per day, although it can be certainly said that a cavalier never runs out of charge, a brawler never runs out of fist, and a fighter never runs out of stab/slash/bludgeon.

There are two ways to deal with this. One is preparation: take item crafting feats (if allowed) and create scrolls and wands, so that even when you run out of spells you still have backup items. The other is versatility: make sure you have skills that can be used (knowledge skills are wizards' go-to, but you can put ranks in anything you like) when you're out of spells, carry a crossbow with the necessary stats to use it, or use a longspear (if you're not a wizard) with a 10 or 12 strength and move into flanks, use aid another, etc.

Finally, after around 3rd or 4th level, you no longer realistically have to worry about running out of spells and class abilities with that many encounters per day.

Edit: Almost forgot about a witch. Witches never run out of Hex (although they can run out hexes available to use on a specific individual).


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Like Mr.Bird said you don't need to cast spells every round. At lower levels you might run out of spells, but as you get higher in levels you will have many of your spells left over. At least that is my experience as a player and GM. If it's a pushover fight I wont even cast a spell. If I do it will be something like magic missile, just so I can say I did something.

Example: I've use forcewall to split the enemy forces, and watched the martials mow them down. Then I drop the force wall, and watch them kill the other half. Haste is another good spell. If it's a single opponent glitterdust is good for blinding enemies, and it doesn't allow for SR.


Keep some magic items on hand - things like scrolls, or even wands - and you can have something useful to do even in the unlikely event that you entirely run out of spells.


Merellin wrote:

So, I have always loved magic users in video games, If there is a way to be a magic user in a video game I play, I will take the chance to play it. I love magic. But in Pathfinder, I have played a melee Cleric, Two Alchemists, A Cavalier and a Brawler..

I am interested in trying a caster, A full arcane caster like the Wizard, Sorcerer, Arcanist or Witch, But I worry, I worry about running out of spells and being useless for the rest of the day.

It costs a wizard 12.5gp to scribe 1st-level scrolls, so really it's only a problem for your first session. Buy some guard dogs to protect you at low-level (have fun role-playing your crappy Handle Animal score, so the dogs are constantly disobeying you).

elf wizard 20pt
str 7
dex 16+
con 12-
int 19+
wis 14
cha 7


Wise spell usage is key, though like everyone said, at higher levels not so much a problem. If you play an arcanist you can get an some extra exploits. Also you can focus your gold expenditure on pearl's of power.

If all you really want it to continuously blast things and do it all day long, be a kineticist. It's not arcane, but it is fun.


Play a specialist wizard, or an elementalist wizard. You get a lot of spell-like abilities. For instance, a conjurer can dish out acid darts 3 + Int times per day. By the time the acid dart damage has fallen too low to be useful, you're bulking up on spells per day.

There are a lot of wizard specialties that don't have such abilities, though, so avoid those. There's a conjurer variant that gives you free very short-ranged teleports (and I don't think you can take or send a friend in your stead). A 5 foot teleport is pretty useless at 1st-level. (It gets better at higher levels, but you need to survive until you reach those higher levels.)

It's even easier with clerics. There are domains that will give you 3 + Wis spell-like abilities per day, and you can have two domains. It's pretty hard to run out of spells if you have, say, 14 spell-like abilities per day.

Wands are fairly cheap, but have low save DCs. Get a wand of Scorching Ray or something else that doesn't allow a saving throw. The damage will be kind of low, but at least it gives you an arcane action for that round.


Such beating around the bush.... I'll be more direct with you: spellcasters in video games are a LOT different of spellcasters in Pathfinder.

A spellcaster in Pathfinder is someone that wield impressive powers in exchange of not being able to use it every round of the combat.
Being worried of run out of spell is part of the spellcasting by design

A bad spellcaster is a spellcaster who think he's expected to cast spells every round. A good spellcaster is a spellcaster who known when and how to use each of its daily spell slot for maximum results.

Which means than often, a good spellcaster will just not cast any spells at some round because the situation is not allowing to do anything truly worth one spell slot.

During time, you can use Cantrips, or other lesser and helpful actions rather than wasting your magical resources.
Some classes options have extra actions possible, like a nice ability to use a bow, or a pet they can direct to attack others, a way to assist other actions and such.
It's part of your responsability as a spellcaster to know what your are going to do during such rounds.

The WORST way to play a spellcaster is to play it like a pure blaster.
Not that I judge people for trying... who didn't? but most scenarios will just make even the best blaster depleted as soon that you ran into half the encounters.
Damage spells are like any other spell: they are best only used on what they are the most efficient. Don't try to cast Burning Hands on everything in sight. Use one color spray per battle, and keep the Burning hands for if you meet an hostile swarm.

TL;DR: Spellcasters like in video games, able to spam spells without a pause, do not exist in Pathfinder. You have to think differently.

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You must have played with some full arcane casters even if you didn't play any yourself. How often have you seen them actually run out of useful spells? (Note that at very low levels even cantrips are useful.)


Merellin wrote:

So, I have always loved magic users in video games, If there is a way to be a magic user in a video game I play, I will take the chance to play it. I love magic. But in Pathfinder, I have played a melee Cleric, Two Alchemists, A Cavalier and a Brawler..

I am intrested in trying a caster, A full arcane caster like the Wizard, Sorcerer, Arcanist or Witch, But I worry, I worry about running out of spells and being useless for the rest of the day.. In our sessions we have about 1-6 encounters per day (When traveling we might have 1 combat encounter per day, When exploring a dungeon we might have 6 in a day)

So, I'd like to ask people to convince me to try a full arcane caster, And ease my worries about running out of spells and being useless..

Well, I'll tell you now that playing magic users in Pathfinder is way different than in a video game. Even then, most magic users in video games have a resource that can (and should) run out if not properly relegated, and is equally true in Pathfinder.

If you are worried about running out of spells (and not so much your spell selection), going Sorcerer will give you the most spells per day, and if you build as a Blaster, you won't have much of a need to specialize in multiple types of spells; usually, one or two different spells is all you'll need for the role you're filling.

To counteract the potential uselessness that you may run into with Immunities and Resistances, I'd suggest taking a 1 level dip into Admixture specialist Wizard, with opposition schools of Enchantment and Necromancy. Or, you can start out with the Admixture specialist Wizard, and then go straight Sorcerer. You'll want a decent Intelligence as well (which isn't a bad thing, so you can have some skill points). Yes, you're delaying your already slower spellcasting progression, but the ability to bypass enemy immunities and resistances with your spells as a blaster more than makes up for it.

For race, go Half Elf with the Multidisciplined trait. This gives you full Sorcerer caster level, and a Wizard caster level of 2, so those spells you would use for, say, Mage Armor or Shield, aren't nearly as short, and are more likely to last an entire combat or adventuring day. Since you'll be primarily a Sorcerer, you can take the Human Favored Class Bonus for additional spells known for utility purposes.

For stats (assuming 20 point buy), I'll recommend the following:

Strength 7
Dexterity 12
Constitution 12
Intelligence 14
Wisdom 8
Charisma 20 (18 + 2)

For your Sorcerer class, I sincerely suggest going Orc bloodline for the +1 per Damage Dice arcana. I also suggest Bloodline Mutations for Blood Havoc, granting an additional +1 per Damage Dice in exchange for your garbage , and Blood Intensity later down the road in place of a bonus feat if you can manage it. You can get the other mutation if you want, but you should have enough feats and bonuses to counteract the need for it.

For feats, take Spell Focus (Evocation), working into Spell Specialization and Varisian Tattoo by 5th level. You'll want some metamagic feats; prime candidates are Empower, Intensify (for when you run out of Blood Intensity, but not really recommended), Selective, Dazing, and Heighten.

The two spells you'll want to focus on are Fireball and Delayed Blast Fireball.

Will post more later tonight; work beckons...


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As a low level sorcerer, I used to keep a crossbow on hand. You can usually judge when a situation isn't dangerous enough to justify using your limited spells.

As a higher level sorcerer, I was unlikely to run out of spells - there are plenty of lower level spells that remain useful - and by this time there are normally scrolls and wands to fall back on.

Merellin wrote:
In our sessions we have about 1-6 encounters per day (When traveling we might have 1 combat encounter per day, When exploring a dungeon we might have 6 in a day)

Are you having 6 dungeon encounters in a day because you are forced to by some urgent deadline, or because the party chooses to go on because they're not running low on resources? You might be able to influence the decision.

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I echo Brew Bird's suggestion of trying a witch. The spell list is a blend of arcane/divine, so you will have some familiar(heh) ground from your cleric experience, and hexes never run out so there's always something to do.

Even during the "mopping up" phase of combat when it's not worth casting a spell, no one's going to be mad you gave a foe -2 AC or something.

Wizards can be extremely strong, but you need a decent level of mastery to get them to that point. I personally tend to avoid them nowadays because I've found they can make the game less fun for the GM and other players.

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Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
....Almost forgot about a witch. Witches never run out of Hex (although they can run out hexes available to use on a specific individual).

THIS!

One of the best solutions for many encounters.


At early levels it can be rough, but with smart spell selection you really only need to cast 1 or 2 spells per combat and then let the martial characters do their thing.

This means don't select damage dealing spells.

You want spells that have persisting effects that make it easier for the martials to clean up. Summoning spells and battlefield control are the best selections.

Look up Treantmonk's guide on building a god wizard.


Matthew Downie wrote:

As a low level sorcerer, I used to keep a crossbow on hand. You can usually judge when a situation isn't dangerous enough to justify using your limited spells.

As a higher level sorcerer, I was unlikely to run out of spells - there are plenty of lower level spells that remain useful - and by this time there are normally scrolls and wands to fall back on.

Merellin wrote:
In our sessions we have about 1-6 encounters per day (When traveling we might have 1 combat encounter per day, When exploring a dungeon we might have 6 in a day)
Are you having 6 dungeon encounters in a day because you are forced to by some urgent deadline, or because the party chooses to go on because they're not running low on resources? You might be able to influence the decision.

I'll second this. Works the same for a prepared caster, but I'll caveat you still need to be judicious since you might have spells remaining but they aren't appropriate at that minute. It's important to think about your filler even at high level. Even a CL1 wand of magic missile is 50 1d4+1 near guaranteed hits. Additionally, Combat Advice is a strong feat to grant allies +2 to an attack, it's like being able to aid from range. It may not directly boost your spell casting but it really helps give you something to do every round even if you don't move.


I have actualy never played in a party with a full arcane caster either.. I'v played in two campaigns. The main Campaign that I'm still I have had a Oracle (Now dead) Druid (Left the group) Alchemist (Player had to stop playing due to RL problems) Rogue (Who multiclassed into sorcerer for a level) Ranger, Investigator, Bloodrager and a Magus (Oh, And another Rogue, The player who used to play Alchemist at the start, And who once more left us due to RL problems) as party members.

And in the second campaign I joined (That ended once we reached level 2) my party members where a Monk, a Bard and a Ninja.

I know I wouldent be able to play as in a video game.. And as to why we have up to 6 encounters in a dungeon, Last dungeon we where in we had to rush to stop a orc ambassador from freeing a ancient evil that would throw the entire continent into a undead war. And we only barley made it in time to stop him (Well, We had to leave the dungeon for a bit after our Oracle died to pick up his Bloodrager replacement, And we got lost in the dungeon for a bit..)

Edit: Oh! Could someone recomend some useful spells for a Witch or Wizard?


Sleep is always a nice one at low levels
and Grease can be surprsingly helpful when used creatively.


Merellin wrote:

I have actualy never played in a party with a full arcane caster either.. I'v played in two campaigns. The main Campaign that I'm still I have had a Oracle (Now dead) Druid (Left the group) Alchemist (Player had to stop playing due to RL problems) Rogue (Who multiclassed into sorcerer for a level) Ranger, Investigator, Bloodrager and a Magus (Oh, And another Rogue, The player who used to play Alchemist at the start, And who once more left us due to RL problems) as party members.

And in the second campaign I joined (That ended once we reached level 2) my party members where a Monk, a Bard and a Ninja.

I know I wouldent be able to play as in a video game.. And as to why we have up to 6 encounters in a dungeon, Last dungeon we where in we had to rush to stop a orc ambassador from freeing a ancient evil that would throw the entire continent into a undead war. And we only barley made it in time to stop him (Well, We had to leave the dungeon for a bit after our Oracle died to pick up his Bloodrager replacement, And we got lost in the dungeon for a bit..)

Edit: Oh! Could someone recomend some useful spells for a Witch or Wizard?

Ok so then tell yourself the wizard's spellcasting is like the druid's, but his spells are generally more powerful, and his pet is smaller.

The top 5 spells of level 1 are probly the following:

Grease
Sleep
Color spray (This is the best spell for levels 1-3)
Enlarge Person
Mage armor

If you have those, you can do pretty much anything.

If you've never played a full caster, might I recommend arcanist? their spell selection is more organic, and if you grab flame arc or ice missiles as an exploit with a feat, coupled with the twilight sage archetype, you will most probably never run out of magickz.

Plus it's fun to ask your party members ''STOP! Don,t kill him I have to recycle him!!!''

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You won't run out of spells. Let's start with the assumption that this is possible, and then work out how.

You mention up to six encounters per day. This obviously depends on the campaign, so it's good that you know your GM already. In my experience the average combat is three or four rounds. With a big party (like yours: six people) this tends to decrease, and if you have more encounters per day they tend to be shorter to compensate. So let's go with an average of three rounds per combat (feel free to adjust my math since you know your GM; the principle still stands).

So if you can get eighteen spells per day, that means that on your longest adventuring day, you can cast a spell every round and never run out. How do we get there?

  • It's easiest with a sorcerer. Level six sorcerer gets 18 spells per day (14 base, +4 from high cha), boom, done.
  • Level six wizard gets eight baseline, +3 for specialization, +4 for high intelligence, +1 from arcane bond, +2 from pearls of power (assuming normal WBL, these are easily affordable by now). So that's also eighteen.
  • Level five cleric has it easy if you count Channel Energy as a spell, either as team healer or with a variant channel debuff. 6 baseline, 3 domain, 3 wisdom, 6 channels equals eighteen.

At levels below six, we've got a couple options:
  • The first is cantrips. At low levels, Daze and Disrupt Undead, in particular, are good options in combat. They have infinite use, of course.
  • Scrolls are cheap. Carry a bunch of them around.
  • School powers and bloodline powers. Most of them don't scale particularly well, but at low levels you get half a dozen free castings of Magic Missile (or equivalent) per day.
  • Finally, bear in mind that we're aiming for your longest day, most days will probably be shorter than that.

So yes, you can play a full caster who doesn't run out of spells. Try it some time, you'll be pleasantly surprised.


Claxon wrote:
Look up Treantmonk's guide on building a god wizard.

Also look up the "Blockbuster" wizard guide (for the other side of the argument), and pull from both.

(The only wizard I ever built was elf, about 60% blaster and 40% god/utility, with a hawk familiar for super Perception. Starting with Teleportation-forcus helps a lot. Pure "god" would be stronger at high level, but that's typically just a matter of retraining feats. In the meantime, just ending some encounters with a single spell is iconic and hella fun. Blaster also eases your GM's worries that you're going to "break" everything by spamming divination magic -- you can *easily* be totally overpowering once 4th-level spells come online.)


The elf race gives longbow proficiency so you can be an archer too. Fire up spells when you need them and in the meantime add to combat from a safe distance.


I havent realy payed attention to how many rounds combat tends to last.. But we often get as many or more enemies then party members, Unless they are very strong enemies, Then we get less then the party (And when we faced a.. Umm.. Spectre..? I think..? Not sure.. Was a green ghostly thing that level drained two of us.. Then we only fought one enemy, But it still managed to level drain two of us 2 levels each)

It is quite fun though! The entire party is having a very good time, Even me and one other, both of us never played before this campaign.

I'm thinking of maybe trying a Witch or a Wizard.. Or maybe trying a full caster Cleric (My old cleric was a melee guy) I'd love to try a Summoner at some point, I'v been inlove with the class since I first read about it.. But it gets so much hate online I fear from ruining the fun of the rest of the party by playing it..


witch is great for that. Pick up extra hex first level and go with something like misfortune and cackle and you'll have something to do every round. I played a witch and right from first level never felt like i was "out of magic"


Merellin wrote:

I'm thinking of maybe trying a Witch or a Wizard.. Or maybe trying a full caster Cleric (My old cleric was a melee guy) I'd love to try a Summoner at some point, I'v been inlove with the class since I first read about it.. But it gets so much hate online I fear from ruining the fun of the rest of the party by playing it..

Generally speaking, Unchained Summoners ironed out most of the hate points on the original chassis (early access to great spells, several highly underpriced evolutions [pounce], Master Summoner, and Synthesist).

Really, as long as you play an UC one and don't hog too much time with using your Summon Monster SLA (cheat sheets for your go to summons are highly encouraged) you aren't going to really invalidate much of anything or unduly annoy your GM unless he hates pet classes in general.

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Spells are stronger than hexes though ('cept slumber); and more diverse. As shown above, it's not that hard to build a wizard or sorcerer who never feels like he is "out of magic", either.


Play unchained summoner it's more balanced.

Although there will still be moments when you can wreck an encounter :-)

As an exemple, our summoner last game trivialised an encounter with a tight corridor that was greased to lure you in a pool with snapjaw turtles. She simply summoned a small water elemental inside the pool, then we had turtle soup.


To be fair AlastarOG, Couldent a Cleric with Summon Monster memorised, Or any caster with access to Summon Monster realy, Have done the same thing? So it wouldent be because it was a summoner. (Not trying to argue or say you are wrong, Just making an observation!)

Our GM dosent allow the Unchained stuff, But have said that the regular summoner is allowed and both my GM and party says I can play it if I want to. But I worry a lot about ruining the game for them even though I want to try it..

If I was to make a summoner, I'd pick a theme for my Eidolon and try to avoid making it over powerd. Like a Angel, And I'd try to make it angel like with biped body and wings and using a sword. Or a Cerberus, Going for Quadruped with three heads and bite and breath attack..


Just a little something to add:

I've seen a few people recommending a Sorcerer for the Spell Per Day advantage. With all things equal, a Sorcerer will have more spells per day than a Wizard. However, all things are not equal.

For one, the Wizard has a more useful (out of the box) casting stat and can dump Charisma without impacting skills in most (or all) cases, especially with carefully picked traits.

Second, the wizard will get more mileage out of the Arcane Bond than the (Arcane) Sorcerer will, since the Wizard can cast any spell in his spellbook with it while the Sorcerer can cast any spell he knows.

Consequently, the Wizard actually starts out equal to or ahead of the Sorcerer in spells per day with the sorcerer pulling ahead around level 6 or so, when you

At level 1, the Sorcerer will have 5 to the Wizard's 5.
At level 2, the Sorcerer will have 6 to the Wizard's 6.
At level 3, the Sorcerer will have 7 to the Wizard's 9.
At level 4, the Sorcerer will have 12 to the Wizard's 11.
At level 5, the Sorcerer will have 13 to the Wizard's 14.
At level 6, the Sorcerer will have 18 to the Wizard's 16.
At level 7, the Sorcerer will have 20 to the Wizard's 20.

The Sorcerer keeps the advantage after level 7. If you are an Arcane Bloodline Sorcerer with the Arcane Bond, add 1 spell per day.

Also, the wizard gets access to higher level spells earlier than the Sorcerer, giving him a Spell Level Per Day advantage.

On a different note, if you are allowed retraining rules, you can retrain your Acid Dart (or similar Wizard ability) into something useful after that ability stops pulling its weight.


I know wizards, so I'll speak to that. Levels 1-3: scrolls are really your best friend, followed by cantrips and then either your familiar or bonded item. I'm biased to the utility of a familiar, but that's just me.

You've got 1 spell, plus 1 for high int. Low right? Look at your starting wealth; can you scrape together 50 GP? If so, there's 4 scrolls that you wrote PRIOR to the start of the adventure.

Are you using the Downtime rules? There's 8 scrolls instead. Is your GM like me and starting ALL the PCs off with the PFS standard starting gold of 150 GP? If so, that's at least 8 or more scrolls you've got at the outset.

Those scrolls should be buffs or spells that don't depend too much on Caster Level or Save DC to be effective/useful. If you start with 4 spell scrolls and scribe Mage Armor, two Enlarge Person spells, and an Obscuring Mist that means that if you're headed down into that 6 encounter dungeon you've got 4 extra utilities right off the bat to make sure that you're protected, the party can retreat once and regroup, and the party's melee fighter has 2 encounters where they've got reach and +1 Size cat melee weapon damage +1 more Damage for good measure.

Being able to suddenly do 1d6 damage to an undead or haunt, or reliably hit for 1d3 Acid from 30' is a good thing. Tack on maybe a feat, or 10 GP worth of alchemical items and you're doing even more with that meager cantrip. These attacks are minor magics, maintaining the image of the spell-slinging wizard using eldritch power over all.

Then there's familiars for utility, an arcane bonded item for extra spells, and still other perks. School abilities, disposable magic items, feats and racial traits adding an SLA or two. There's more than enough spell power out there to keep you relevant for all day.

From 4th level on you'll find a steady stream of disposable and permanent magic items that will backfill your lack of spells.


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Merellin wrote:

To be fair AlastarOG, Couldent a Cleric with Summon Monster memorised, Or any caster with access to Summon Monster realy, Have done the same thing? So it wouldent be because it was a summoner. (Not trying to argue or say you are wrong, Just making an observation!)

The major advantage that a Summoner has over other spellcasters who can cast Summon Monster spells is that in most cases he can cast his Summon Monster spell-like ability as a standard action. To everyone else, that spell has a full round casting time.


And minutes per level, not rounds


Don't worry about ruining your friends' fun. As long as people aren't focused to the point where they compete to outshine in the same area you're fine. If you play your summoner, yes a cleric can also summon, but you will be better at it. It will be your moment to shine, though he can support you if you need it.

Full Casters are about bringing different options to the table. If you want to be the one to out think situations play a wizard. With a little prep a wizard can answer almost any situation.

Summoner it going to let you counter being outnumbered to an extent. Depending on your build it could be about your versatility in a fight. I have seen some summoners, who for the most part ignore their eidolon and would summon the exact right creature to overcome resistances and the like.

Sorcerers get a few cool side powers and some spells that they can fling around multiple times. Easier to manage than a wizard, though a wizard with pearls of power can achieve the same excess of spells.

Play what sounds fun. You'll have the character for a while. I am of the opinion that there are no bad party combos, it may just take more creativity to overcome obstacles for some parties than others.


I've never run out spells with wizard. Sorcerer I have but not wizard. The reason, scribe scroll is class feature. 25 gp to and day to scribe a 1st level spell. Even starting at first level keep 25 gp to craft a scroll. Petition you party as the scrolls help them too.


Ok, my opinion is a bit different than a lot of them posted above. I really think making scrolls is a waste of gold that you could of used to copy spells into your spell book.

Worried about not doing anything? Cast a cantrip that does damage or use your school feature. Honestly though you should be looking for opportunities to use area-effect magic to mess up a lot of enemies at once. Color spray is a nightmare in the early levels. When it starts to lose effectiveness replace it with utility spells, magic missle or snowball if you focus on ranged touch spells.

I like bonded object over familiar myself. Being able to get 1 copy of any obscure spell from your book can save the entire party or get you past a trap. Tons of obscure spells you'd never memorize otherwise become valuable.

Or you could go with a familiar build. The wizard in our current campaign got a Pesudodragon with Improved Familiar and now its a magic missile wand toting nightmare that as a GM I particularly hate. <3

Save up for permanent magic items that let you cast more often. Pearls of Power (1st level is cheap, others...maybe not worth it), Headband of Vast Intellect (very, very good since it raises DC too), and my personal favorite "time waster" Ring of Telekinesis are a few items you can get to expand your ability to do wizarding things every day.

Wizards are better at making opponents weak rather than killing them. Things like Confusion, hold person, and grease don't kill monsters but by denying the monsters numbers or actions it makes it so you're party can gang up on the remaining monsters which makes the entire combat safer.

And then you can mop up after.

Just one more thing about that Telekinesis Ring. Its really broken, you get to cast that spell at will and I use to carry around a bucket of large sized cold iron chakrum because they did their weapon damage if I hit someone with them. I also carried some silver ingots incase we ran into something that was vulnerable.

Oh! Also if you are a new wizard, take a bunch of Knowledge skills that identify monsters. Every time you see a new monster make an ID roll and shout out to the party the creature's weaknesses and invulnerabilities. That alone is worth having a wizard around for.

Grand Lodge

Vis the comment about playing a Kineticist if you want to blast all day long, this is largely correct. But a Kinny has real problems when you start running into critters with spell resistance. Either accept that, or plan around it. Egil's plan is acquire a +1 Bane Outsider (Evil) Light Crossbow; that should take care of the majority of critters he runs into with SR.


Witches never run out of hexes. Also a wand of Ill Omen costs 750, has 50 charges, and is still effective until spell resistance kicks in(high levels so you have all the spell slots anyway). Another fairly cheap item(5050gp) staff of entwined serpents gives endless magic missiles.At low levels your typically only a +2 or +3 behind with ranged attacks. This means you can often contribute fine with a crossbow, school/bloodline power, or cantrips. Most encounters you only need to cast 1-3 spells(avg 2). Typically lv3+ I only run out on really long days(6+ fights).


Egil Firehair wrote:

Vis the comment about playing a Kineticist if you want to blast all day long, this is largely correct. But a Kinny has real problems when you start running into critters with spell resistance. Either accept that, or plan around it.

Spell resistance doesn't apply against physical blasts, such as Air, Earth, or Water.


I play a spell-casting Oracle. I've yet to run out of spells. The trick is to remember two things: First, you GET some weapons. A light crossbow might not be much, but it's still something. Second, you HAVE melees for a reason. Let 'em do their job. YOU shouldn't worry about taking out the piddly trash with your spells, unless you're taking care of (literal) swarms. Once you hit second or third level spells, you can use your first levels to strategically soften up the enemy, but your big damage dealers (fireball, lightning bolt, Bone Shaker, etc) are for nasties like the boss. Or as I said, for *literal* Swarm creatures.


If you want to play a caster that never runs out of spells, play a Witch. They will run out of "spells" per day if you do nothing but cast spells, but Witches have Hexes. Hexes never run out. There are some Hexes that cannot be recasted on a person if they have previously resisted it, but there are feats/spells to help with that too. Witches are an extremely versatile class, and "always have an answer to any problem" that is on-par with the Wizard/Cleric/Druid.

If you're not sold on Witch, I'd definitely recommend Wizard. You get a lot of spells per day, but the awesome thing about a Wizard is SCROLLS.


Well, he could also use the Sylvan Bloodline Sorcerer. He will have an animal companion to play with when he's low on spells.
This bloodline is truly fun to play.


The Witch class does seem quite nice and I would like to try it sometime. The fact that they get both cure spells and summoning spells just makes it better cus I like having access to those.

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