Starfinder Design Lead
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As a clarification, most of that has been up since August. Only the starship skill check and DC material is new today.
And we link it from the Starfinder landing page, accessible by cling on the Starfinder logo to the left of nearly every Paizo web page.
Now to just run the numbers and see exactly how much focus is needed for basic competency. I'm still a little hesitant about the 1.5x scaling but I'll need to sit down and math it out to be sure.
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Now to just run the numbers and see exactly how much focus is needed for basic competency. I'm still a little hesitant about the 1.5x scaling but I'll need to sit down and math it out to be sure.
Link to very basic analysis. The thing you have to remember is that the ship's computers can add up to +10 and you're not gonna be making too many of the toughest checks in any one turn.
Even very low personal investment (to the tune of investing a rank in a Class Skill every level and having a decent rating in the stat) is thus adequate if you purchase a good computer.
As a clarification, most of that has been up since August. Only the starship skill check and DC material is new today.
And we link it from the Starfinder landing page, accessible by cling on the Starfinder logo to the left of nearly every Paizo web page.
Any chance we could get some rules for hacking robots and other technological creatures? (I really want a pet Assembly Ooze)
Any chance we could get some rules for hacking robots and other technological creatures?
I really hope that won't happen because that would make the Mechanic's Override pretty darn obsolete. And Technomancers get Control Machines. I don't think other classes should be able to control technological constructs.
Although Override's "fail by 10" requirement is really pretty bad and basically never going to happen. I wish there was an "Ability Focus" feat.
Any chance we could get some rules for hacking robots and other technological creatures?I really hope that won't happen because that would make the Mechanic's Override pretty darn obsolete. And Technomancers get Control Machines. I don't think other classes should be able to control technological constructs.
Although Override's "fail by 10" requirement is really pretty bad and basically never going to happen. I wish there was an "Ability Focus" feat.
Override is great but i want an ability like Root Access to gain control permanently.
Somehow I don't think 'Permanent Mind Control' will ever be on the table while Androids are a player race and drones are a PC companion. No one wants to hear the GM say 'Well, the NPC rolled really well...go make a new PC'.
Somehow I don't think 'Permanent Mind Control' will ever be on the table while Androids are a player race and drones are a PC companion. No one wants to hear the GM say 'Well, the NPC rolled really well...go make a new PC'.
obvious you can't hack an Android, I'm talking about stuff like Robots or the aforementioned Ooze, simple technological constructs that function only on their limited (and rewriteable) code.
Why can't you hack an Android? Mechanics can with Override.
You'd also run into well...the power level issues of 'The computer skill allows me to bring a heap more dudes to any given conflict by stealing them'. Diplomacy doesn't give you permanent dudes.
Why can't you hack an Android? Mechanics can with Override.
You'd also run into well...the power level issues of 'The computer skill allows me to bring a heap more dudes to any given conflict by stealing them'. Diplomacy doesn't give you permanent dudes.
"The craft skill allows me to bring a heap more Golems to any given conflict by making them"
"The Animate Dead spell allows me to bring a heap more Undead to any given conflict by raising them"
"The Leadership Feat allows me to bring a heap more Followers to any given conflict by recruiting them"
This issue has been had in the past many times, generally there's a gentleman's agreement to not abuse the ability to bring a small army to any given fight.
As for why not Androids, because they have souls? I'm not saying replicate the Override ability I'm saying allow for the reprogramming of Robots and other soulless constructs.
Craft and Leadership both take Feats, several levels, and an extra condition (Gold and a lot of Time for Crafting Constructs, a high Leadership score for Leadership).
Animate Dead is a spell and thus already has its slew of issues there, but being a level 3 spell it'll also take a few levels to get to, it does have the limitation of costing a fair bit of gold, and it has a hard cap on how many undead you can raise at any given level. Also it's an [Evil] spell, which is its own balancing factor in some games.
So basically, those are kinda balanced by internal factors. A generally available application of a skill doesn't really have those limits. As such, unless you're proposing this be a mid-game-availability feat or something like that, it's not exactly an even comparison.
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Also it's an [Evil] spell, which is its own balancing factor in some games.
No, it's not. In fact, the only spell so far that can have descriptors indicating alignment is Planar Binding.
But yes, Animate Dead costs a crapton of money. 1000 credits per CR, in fact.
...I'll be honest, I didn't even remember Animate Dead was in Starfinder, I was thinking the Pathfinder version, since the other two are also Pathfinder version.
Craft and Leadership both take Feats, several levels, and an extra condition (Gold and a lot of Time for Crafting Constructs, a high Leadership score for Leadership).
Animate Dead is a spell and thus already has its slew of issues there, but being a level 3 spell it'll also take a few levels to get to, it does have the limitation of costing a fair bit of gold, and it has a hard cap on how many undead you can raise at any given level. Also it's an [Evil] spell, which is its own balancing factor in some games.
So basically, those are kinda balanced by internal factors. A generally available application of a skill doesn't really have those limits. As such, unless you're proposing this be a mid-game-availability feat or something like that, it's not exactly an even comparison.
Make it run the exact same as it does for computers, have a normal DC to hack in and a "Root Access" DC at 20 higher. Plus don't forget that the robots are likely hostile on sight and thus you are going to need either a way to avoid notice (some really impressive stealth or invisibility? I dunno) or a way to access them remotely (which, huh would you look at that, doesn't depower mechanics but makes them MORE useful). Also don't forget the time involved, you would likely only be able to pull something like this outside of combat unless you were a REALLY impressive hacker (or facing something much weaker than yourself).
There's balancing factors in there, they are just difficulty based rather than requiring you to throw down stacks of cash to fix all your problems.
Craft and Leadership both take Feats, several levels, and an extra condition (Gold and a lot of Time for Crafting Constructs, a high Leadership score for Leadership).
Animate Dead is a spell and thus already has its slew of issues there, but being a level 3 spell it'll also take a few levels to get to, it does have the limitation of costing a fair bit of gold, and it has a hard cap on how many undead you can raise at any given level. Also it's an [Evil] spell, which is its own balancing factor in some games.
So basically, those are kinda balanced by internal factors. A generally available application of a skill doesn't really have those limits. As such, unless you're proposing this be a mid-game-availability feat or something like that, it's not exactly an even comparison.
Make it run the exact same as it does for computers, have a normal DC to hack in and a "Root Access" DC at 20 higher. Plus don't forget that the robots are likely hostile on sight and thus you are going to need either a way to avoid notice (some really impressive stealth or invisibility? I dunno) or a way to access them remotely (which, huh would you look at that, doesn't depower mechanics but makes them MORE useful). Also don't forget the time involved, you would likely only be able to pull something like this outside of combat unless you were a REALLY impressive hacker (or facing something much weaker than yourself).
There's balancing factors in there, they are just difficulty based rather than requiring you to throw down stacks of cash to fix all your problems.
House rule it, bro! Me personally, i don’t want to see the ability in the core rules, but that’s the beauty of tabletop; you can framework up some dc20 to hack and an additional dc40 check for your root access at your table. GM fiat!
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Catch the necromancer before he flees!
Come on! Gather your pitchforks!!
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Damn it! What do I do with these high hopes now
Could we not necro ancient threads please?
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Damn it! What do I do with these high hopes now
Feed them on this.
Damn it! What do I do with these high hopes nowFeed them on this.
My hopes and dreams have been dashed and restored such that I now have whiplash.
Damn it! What do I do with these high hopes nowFeed them on this.
Can I get a pdf version of this pocket book? Just make it really tiny
My hopes and dreams have been dashed and restored such that I now have whiplash.Damn it! What do I do with these high hopes nowFeed them on this.
I'm just huddling in a ball and telling myself that the errata pdf will only be two pages, with half a page of that the legal boilerplate.
Can I get a pdf version of this pocket book? Just make it really tinyDamn it! What do I do with these high hopes nowFeed them on this.
Eventually they'll update the full CRB pdf with the errata, and traditionally Pathfinder 1 errata changes resulted in a separate free pdf listing the changes. Those changes didn't always capture everything that actually changed in the book, though.
Here I got all excited for a nice big juicy list of new errata/FAQ
But lo, it was not meant to be
So we shall carry on with the house rules and best guesses that have guided us since time immemorial
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It looks like the PDF of the Starfinder Core Rulebook has been updated. Have the changes in this PDF already been posted in the FAQ/Errata, or is there some other place we can find a list of the changes from the original version?
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I've been skimming through the new CRB revision. There are quite a few changes that are entirely new to this printing that hadn't previously been covered in FAQ/Errata. As far as I can tell, all the errata from the FAQ page made it in to the new revision.
Just skimming through the equipment section, I've seen:
I've been skimming through the new CRB revision. There are quite a few changes that are entirely new to this printing that hadn't previously been covered in FAQ/Errata. As far as I can tell, all the errata from the FAQ page made it in to the new revision.
Just skimming through the equipment section, I've seen:
A bunch of basic melee weapons picked up the thrown property
Some weapons picked up the analog property that were missing it before
Grenades got massive price reductions (some up to 60% off) and the stagger inflicted by cryo grenades was clarified to be 1 round
Explode weapons can now only critically hit one creature within their explosion.
Injection property has been expanded to allow other types of poisons, not just injury poisons.
Armor temperature protections have been changed from protect only from temps between -20 and 140F, rather than the previous wording that protected against all temps.
A bunch of armor descriptions now use the term "energy field" instead of "force field".
The Venom spur was given a description that makes it a basic melee weapon, rather than the weird undefined state it had before.
Clarifications on which magic items are worn and which are not have been added, which helps work out if you've hit your 2 magic items limit. They also removed restrictions of wearing two of the same "slot", so you can have both of your magic items be hats if you'd like.
Ring of Whispers got a range on its sense through (hearing).
Medicinals and poisons both got a lot cheaper. Some item levels changed for poisons too.
Good stuff. Can't wait to see what else was fixed.
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I've been skimming through the new CRB revision. There are quite a few changes that are entirely new to this printing that hadn't previously been covered in FAQ/Errata. As far as I can tell, all the errata from the FAQ page made it in to the new revision.
Just skimming through the equipment section, I've seen:
A bunch of basic melee weapons picked up the thrown property
Some weapons picked up the analog property that were missing it before
Grenades got massive price reductions (some up to 60% off) and the stagger inflicted by cryo grenades was clarified to be 1 round
Explode weapons can now only critically hit one creature within their explosion.
Injection property has been expanded to allow other types of poisons, not just injury poisons.
Armor temperature protections have been changed from protect only from temps between -20 and 140F, rather than the previous wording that protected against all temps.
A bunch of armor descriptions now use the term "energy field" instead of "force field".
The Venom spur was given a description that makes it a basic melee weapon, rather than the weird undefined state it had before.
Clarifications on which magic items are worn and which are not have been added, which helps work out if you've hit your 2 magic items limit. They also removed restrictions of wearing two of the same "slot", so you can have both of your magic items be hats if you'd like.
Ring of Whispers got a range on its sense through (hearing).
Medicinals and poisons both got a lot cheaper. Some item levels changed for poisons too.
Doing Yaraesa's work here.
Starfinder Lead Designer
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It looks like the PDF of the Starfinder Core Rulebook has been updated. Have the changes in this PDF already been posted in the FAQ/Errata, or is there some other place we can find a list of the changes from the original version?
Some of the changes are already listed on our FAQ/Errata page; the rest of the changes will be added to that page as soon as we are able. Thanks for your patience!
I'd greatly prefer a physical book to having to use pdf only or cross reference physical book with uber-errata all the time. My preference is certainly enough for me to pay for a new CRB. Don't know about anyone else.
Yes, in fact they don't like to do erratta unless they're printing a new version. (which slows up their faq line when an FAQ needs to be anerratta)
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Yes, in fact they don't like to do erratta unless they're printing a new version. (which slows up their faq line when an FAQ needs to be anerratta)
I'd greatly prefer a physical book to having to use pdf only or cross reference physical book with uber-errata all the time. My preference is certainly enough for me to pay for a new CRB. Don't know about anyone else.
The changes appear to also be in the newly printed pocket Core Rulebook, so best of both worlds in this situation.
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Other assorted topics (ahead of Joe adding them to the FAQ page):
There's quite a few good changes in wording here and there that make things a lot clearer. Its the big FAQ haul I've always dreamed of :D
squeee....
and thank you
Enhanced Resistance was changed to apply to your choice of only one kinetic damage type (slashing, bludgeoning or piercing) or one energy type. [ooc](Wow, the gravy train is finally over.)
Well, most of my melee characters are boned, I guess. Yikes.
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Ha! Starship example weight ranges have been updated! Now a colossal starship weighs 200 to 2,000 megatons, instead of the puny 8,000+ tons of the original CRB!
Love that Paizo got that one in :)
Because I'm on a roll now:
I think that's about all the major changes I came across.
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BP costs of various Starship weapons got adjusted. Say goodbye to your Coilgun overlords. These changes are pretty massive. High explosive missiles went from 4 BP to 14 BP, for example. Heavy laser cannons cost twice as much. Not sure where that takes optimal ship design, but its certainly a big shake up.
And I was just about to make a thread about how the BP prices of various weapons in the Starship Operations Manual make no sense, being more expensive then strictly better weapons in the CRB. This could eliminate that worry completely. Awesome!
Tons of the example NPC starships in the book had their piloting and gunnery stats lowered.
I remember making a thread about this when the CRB came out. Great to see this fixed!
This is fantastic series of updates and power-level balancing. Great work Paizo!
Well, most of my melee characters are boned, I guess. Yikes.
Enhanced Resistance was changed to apply to your choice of only one kinetic damage type (slashing, bludgeoning or piercing) or one energy type. [ooc](Wow, the gravy train is finally over.)
… wasn't that Feat FAQed over a year ago?
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They fixed flight completely. Now if you have average maneuverability and 5 ranks in acrobatics, or if you have perfect maneuverability, you can hover without making a check or spending a move action.
I don't consider this a fix.
I'd like flight not being a free lunch so to speak. Having to move or spend an action to hover (even a swift action which prevents full actions) would be sufficient.
I don't like this change :(
Well, most of my melee characters are boned, I guess. Yikes.
Enhanced Resistance was changed to apply to your choice of only one kinetic damage type (slashing, bludgeoning or piercing) or one energy type. [ooc](Wow, the gravy train is finally over.)
Enhanced Resistance was basically a must have for everyone, especially full BAB characters and the choice was always for kinetic damage because it was a broader category and you had other ways to get energy resistance....now the feat is worthless. It's too narrow to only get damage reduction to one of slashing, piercing, bludgeoning, fire, cold, sonic, electricty, and acid.
It's not the end of the world, but it's pretty lame. I don't see anyone taking this feat anymore.
Honestly I think a better way to have changed this feat if they wanted to make it less powerful is damage reduction equal to half your BAB or resistance (to all energy) equal to half you BAB.
It's still an incredible feat, and worth taking but has broad enough application that it's useful.
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They fixed flight completely. Now if you have average maneuverability and 5 ranks in acrobatics, or if you have perfect maneuverability, you can hover without making a check or spending a move action. I don't consider this a fix.
I'd like flight not being a free lunch so to speak. Having to move or spend an action to hover (even a swift action which prevents full actions) would be sufficient.
I don't like this change :(
It's still a considerable investment. 5 ranks in Acrobatics or Perfect Maneuverability? Lack of actionless hovering was messing with hover drones, who couldn't even shoot if they wanted to remain aloft and the mechanic didn't grant them an action. And forget full attacking unless you land. I don't think drone full attacks are going to burn down the sky...
Besides, the overly difficult flight rules just meant that people invested in force soles. Mk. 2 you don't ever have to walk on the real ground.
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It really feels like Paizo took this opportunity to not just errata and clarify, but also to "patch the game" in the online video game sense. The starship weapons, medicinals, and grenades all had significant price rebalancing to make them more or less appealing, to an extent I don't think we ever saw in Pathfinder.
The Enhanced Resistance change was something that I remember the devs discussing way back at release, but it never became an actual errata.
Of all these changes, the Starship weapon BP changes are the ones I'm most uneasy about. Low level starship combat already had ships that struggled to damage each other faster than shields regen, and these changes make it more difficult to fit high damage weapons onto a low tier ship. All the tracking weapons have had their damage/BP reduced to be only a little better than direct fire weapons of their mount size, which *feels* like at overcorrection to me. Especially at low levels, having limited fire hurts.
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It's still a considerable investment. 5 ranks in Acrobatics or Perfect Maneuverability? Lack of actionless hovering was messing with hover drones, who couldn't even shoot if they wanted to remain aloft and the mechanic didn't grant them an action. And forget full attacking unless you land. I don't think drone full attacks are going to burn down the sky...
Besides, the overly difficult flight rules just meant that people invested in force soles. Mk. 2 you don't ever have to walk on the real ground.
I would have preferred a specific sort of exemption for hover drones, rather than a wholesale change of the rules.
I personally thought no flying full attacks were a good thing.
Anything on Stealth + Senses + Unseen creatures?
Grenades are dirt cheap!
Anything on Stealth + Senses + Unseen creatures?
Nothing that stood out to me.