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Xenocrat wrote:


It doesn't work that well, it incentivizes melee charges (which isn't a bad thing), it has an opportunity cost in DPR (foregoing full attacks), it's easily neutralized by readying an action to shoot someone immediately after they take a shot or cast a spell (everyone is using a standard action to attack, the stealth guy is limiting his move action, the readying guy can do whatever with his move action), and it nicely simulates real modern infantry tactics where two opposing forces take prone cover/concealment to ineffectually trade shots while an offensive flanking team maneuvers around the cover/concealment to take them in the flank and negate their cover/concealment.

Wait, are you saying that this a team game, and if one player can't do their favorite thing every turn, it's actually OK because they have a team to pick up the slack?

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?


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As your attorney, I advise you watch Quantum of Solace.


That's true, and given that soldiers aren't exactly feat starved, you could very likely come out with a build that works very well in ranged combat, as well as melee via an unarmed strike build.

I mean, I only prefer a weapon because of the cool factor, and fusions. Damage wise, they go back and forth in terms of probable higher damage output, but they're close enough that if you want to do both ranged and melee damage but can't afford enough toys, unarmed is totally viable.

Unless your GM doesn't subscribe to how a good portion of us assume the RoF and Improved Unarmed interact, or a couple other little details.


Plus, at a certain point (for my soldier, level 6) you'll probably have a set of PA with at least 2 weapon slots, meaning your main and backup guns are always ready anyway.

With the addition of an Autoloader armor upgrade, you basically never need to worry about your hands or what's in them, so you might as well be using the highest damage 2h weapon you can buy or find anyway.


Honestly, it's never once come up in a game for me.

It comes up here in the forums fairly often, and for the most part being gently told that Starfinder is not a sim, the more real-world physics and rules you try to bring in to it, the more it breaks the game, tends to curtail those kind of arguments.


Well, yeah. Powered armor by its very design isn't made for high strength melee builds.

If you're going for the best melee damage, hammer fist and PA aren't the way to go.

If you'd like a decent backup weapon with very consistent damage, hammer fist is great.

If you'd like to be a capable switch hitter, then PA is fantastic.


Yeah, there isn't really a difference between recharging powered items/batteries/etc and an armor's environmental protections, in-game wise.

I wouldn't be surprised if various GMs home brewed up something, there's been a lot of talk about it over the months. But as far as actual rules, nope.

Best to ask your GM if you'd rather not find out the hard way.


Ravingdork wrote:

Isn't realism (or at least media portrayal of realism) generally considered the accepted baseline for things not directly covered by the rules?

I like the idea of asking for a knowledge check. That means it is unlikely to surprise anyone unless the characters are literally clueless.

Also, it's not my intent to have a surprise house rule, I'm just surprised something so basic doesn't seem to be covered in the rules (not even a passing mention of shipboard decontamination chambers or whatnot).

Garretmander wrote:
Typically, the rules assume you can decontaminate anything exposed.
Oh? Where? I don't even see it hinted at anywhere.

Oh, I meant, it doesn't exist in game, so nobody is prepared to deal with. If a GM said that from now on, you might find areas with hot fallout still around, I'd make sure to hit the store before we left and be fine with it.

And I don't need realism, so much as I just want all the people at the table to have a basic idea of what's going on. Like how being touched by radioactive particles works.


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So, if my GM suddenly sprang "Surprise, I added fallout to the game" on us, I'd be fairly displeased. Being that it doesn't exist, and none of the equipment or drugs that you'd want handy to deal with it exist, that's kind of poor form to just all of a sudden include it.

If, instead, it was more of a 'I'd like to add fallout to the game, let's spitball on how it should work' I'd be ok with it. I'd tell the GM to go watch the Chernobyl documentary that came out recently (actually, everyone should watch it anyway), do a little reading on the internets, and then we could certainly come to some kind of agreement on how to Starfinder up how it would work.


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So, regarding your setup: I'm not 100% that the computer interface can run a weapon. I'd allow, so I'm not going to argue it, but I'd clear it with your GM first just to be safe.

My point is that, the save DC for half damage from your setup is going to be incredibly low. Like... 13, I think? 10+ half weapon level+computer tier? Basically, unless your opponents get horribly unlucky, you're spending almost 14,000 credits to do 1 or 2 damage to everything in a ten foot radius. That's the part that doesn't seem worth it to me.


Shouldn't the sudden inclusion of an at (or near) level weapon and armor put the player hilariously over WBL?

Let the player pull his shenanigans, at the end of every session ask the players to do a wealth audit. Players above WBL don't get any more loot or money until they even out.


@Pithica

I mean, I believe your interpretation of this is incorrect, yes.

I don't think you're unintelligent (You've had a few other posts where you convinced me you were correct, and plenty where we agreed before talking,) I have no doubt that you can read (because... well, look what we're doing,) and whether you ruin your own game or not has so little bearing on anything, literally anything, that I don't see why anyone would care if you were ruining your own game or not.

I apologize if any post that I've made hurt your feelings. It isn't my intent to do that, though I am known to be jerk in real life, and sometimes it happens anyway.


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I don't have a horse in the RoF race, I just wanted to pop in and say:

Hey, BNW, good job maintaining a chart format. Was getting past the wolf head the thing, or putting it in spoilers? Or both?


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Mainly, it's because Harrying and Covering Fire both start with this line: You can use your standard action to make a ranged attack.

So, you need to spend a standard action to do either Harrying or Covering fire.

If you cast a spell with your standard action, it may (depending on the spell) grant you a ranged attack, but this isn't an extra standard action, it is just an attack roll.

If harrying and/or covering said 'as part of an attack (or full attack) you may perform a harrying or covering fire,' then it would work. But since it requires a standard action, not just an attack, you're out of luck.

I look forward to this discussion happening again.


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Sorry, but it's pretty open and shut.

The specific thing you want to do is perform Harrying or Covering Fire.

The specific rules for these actions make it clear that both of them effect a single (enemy) target at a time. I might consider that weapons with different modes of firing, such as Line or Blast, could effect more than one enemy, except for two things:

1. Harrying and Covering both being very clear that they are vs a single enemy.

2. The Suppressive Fire feat exists, if this feat exists just to give a weapon with the Automatic property a way to effect more than one enemy with Harrying or Covering Fire, then with this feat you absolutely, 100%, no arguments can only effect one target with Harrying or Covering fire without the feat and an automatic weapon.


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Spoiler:

Harrying Fire
You can use your standard action to make a ranged attack that distracts a foe in your line of effect. Make an attack roll against AC 15. If you hit, you deal no damage, but the next ally to attack that foe gains a +2 circumstance bonus to her next attack roll, as long as that attack occurs before your next turn.

Covering Fire
You can use your standard action to make a ranged attack that provides covering fire for an ally. Make a ranged attack roll against AC 15. If you hit, you deal no damage but the selected ally gains a +2 circumstance bonus to AC against the next attack from a creature in your line of effect (see page 271), so long as that attack occurs before your next turn.

I spoiled the Harrying and Covering rules, for ease of whoever wants to talk about this. For Harrying fire, it's pretty specific that it effects one target in your line of effect, so it shouldn't matter what way your weapon fires, you just get to pick one monster that you could have shot.

For Covering Fire, you select an ally, and then a monster in your line of effect, so it still wouldn't matter, you're just picking the one monster.

If you take the feat Suppressive Fire, then you can use harrying or covering fire with more than 1 NPC as a'target,' so long as you use an automatic weapon.


Generally, in my head, it runs like a Star Trek space fight (which isn’t even close to my favorite kind of space fight, but whatever.)

So you get something like:
Science Person: Captain, a (insert fun details here) has entered sensor range!
Captain: Yellow alert. Any sign of hostilities?
S.P.: They’ve raised shields and I detect weapons powering up!
Captain: Red alert, battle stations, roll me a pilot check!

So the ‘scan’ is less of a ‘push a button and hope your scan gets you a return’ and more of ‘we sit in the middle of a sensor bubble, and as long as your science person is good enough to (either beat the opponent’s… anti…scan... mechanism or interpret the data the computer gives him) then you get to know about the enemy ship. So you’d always know however much you learned from the check, with the potential to know more (or less) on your next check. But whatever was learned becomes real time information as the battle progresses, rather than a snapshot from 10 minutes ago.


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Personally, my character recently got himself a Laborer Frame PA, and I've made a point to constantly describe him as zooming around on his little tank treads everywhere the party goes.

I mean, he was always wearing armor anyway, but now he's pretty much that old Marvel character from the Reavers, when Donald Pierce has an evil cyborg gang.

I'm... ahhh... I'm a bit of a nerd, I think.


I've always been under the impression that once you succeed a scan, you know whatever information you gained from the scan for the rest of the battle.


Lots of wasted paper, I guess.

I don't know, it doesn't seem like we really disagree on the end result of the thing, and the end result seems fine. The end result being "It keeps unarmed combat relatively competitive with weapons."

We just can't seem to agree on how get there. Maybe we'll get lucky, and eventually this thing will get an errata or FAQ. And maybe, just maybe, the experience will teach Paizo writers how to formulate an item description so it makes sense. Maybe.


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pithica42 wrote:
Witness, ye, the return of yon argument that started me whining about needing this FAQ.

Wrong again!


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Eoxian Representative: Oh for the love of… what the hell did you guys DO?!?


Oh, if only we'd get a Squad Sight feat in Starfinder!


Garretmander wrote:

Nevermind that a tier 10 computer, a level 20 item with a price tag of 320,000 Cr, only has a 55% chance of hitting a CR 8 combatant's EAC.

That said, depending on your GM, a ranged combatant carrying around a portable turret heavy weapon could make for an interesting way to keep yourself in cover and still attack... this is all a tangent to the original post however.

Except he's talking about an explosive weapon (likely because of the much easier chance to hit the floor.) So the hitting the target isn't an issue, it's going to be the low reflex DC needed to only take half damage.


I don't know that comparing this to anything in Earth history is particularly accurate.

The Formian-Lashunta war wasn't like an alien version of WW2. Nobody is suggesting the Right Lashunta should exterminate the Wrong Lashunta.

We're talking about 2 wholly different species that want to exist in the same niche, which usually results in only one species getting to exist in the same niche. If you suddenly had to choose between 'humans' and 'not humans,' I hope and expect you'd choose humans, and not the 'not humans' because it's too mean to support a 'my species deserves to live' mentality.


Yeah, at that point you're ending up buying a max tier computer repeatedly for any shot of doing full damage, and spending quite a pretty penny to do so.

On top of the expense for the power armor itself.

On top of the 4 feats (unless you dipped a soldier level) to use heavy armor, powered armor, longarms, and heavy weapons.


I would think the bigger worry would be an inability to process the amino acids, or caffeine is a poison (or something like that) than I would think an alien race that happens to look like a dog would share an allergy with an actual dog.

They're aliens, after all. Genetically, they might be closer to a tree, or a capybara, than a dog.


I feel like power armor is really kind of a bad idea for primary melee characters. I guess saving a few points from needing a high strength might even out when you can't increase your land speed, maybe?

As far as an explosive weapon goes, unless you're going to dump all the points you saved from strength into dex, you're just throwing away money on a weapon that's going to be doing half damage (since everything will beat the low DC to save) or zero (anything that has Evasion won't even care that you're shooting.)


I believe that you use the Collision damage for when a vehicle strikes a character, which is different from a Ram.

AoN says this:
Attack: This entry indicates an attack the vehicle has, the damage it deals, and the DC to avoid it (if any). Most vehicles have only collision attacks, which deal bludgeoning damage. (See Vehicle Collision Damage on page 229 and the ram and the run over action on page 279 for more on collisions.)

Though I'll be damned if I can find more information without the actual book handy.


On the money, Mystical Magical Meta.

Like most constructs, a drone cannot recover from damage on its own. If a drone is reduced to 0 Hit Points, it becomes inactive until it is restored to 1 Hit Point or more. If a drone takes damage from a single attack equal to or greater than its maximum Hit Points while it has 0 current HP, the drone is destroyed.


Ravingdork wrote:
Who wears armor on their own ship? It's not like there are boarding rules, or a quick means of exploding a ship and exposing you to space.

On the high end, anyone who doesn't want to die in the vacuum of space.

On the low end, anyone who wears a life jacket when they get on a boat.

I mean, I'd hazard a guess that more than half the people who play Starfinder have their character wearing armor basically 24/7.


Get 'Em: As a move action, you can choose one enemy within 60 feet. Until the start of your next turn, you and your allies gain a +1 morale bonus to attack rolls made against that enemy.

Improved Get 'Em: Your morale bonus from get ’em increases to +2. As a standard action, you can make a single attack against a target within 60 feet. You and your allies within 60 feet gain the benefits of get ’em against that target (applying these effects before making the attack roll).

I cut the resolve spending parts out, since those weren't questioned.

So, yeah, using Get 'Em as a move and Improved Get 'Em as a standard works fine.


Or if all the film for your camera was ruined.


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I guess if a thing with no biological parts can use augments that require biological parts, then something with no eyes can use replacement eyes.


Xenocrat wrote:
Most longarms with scopes shoot 300-600' without penalty. Taking an action to aim doubles that.

I don't think scopes do anything if you don't take a move action to aim, though. Did I misinterpret you, or is one of us wrong?

And, BNW and Claxon make some good points. I wouldn't be against anything you've said, really.

Oh, aside from the melee bit, actually. If we're catering to how sniper rifles work in game once in a while by giving them a chance to shine, then yes, you're correct, non snipers will have to adapt.

Other people with guns can move up a little, either shooting or not, until they find a range at which they can operate. Melee characters can hang out and guard the shooters, or use the opportunity to maneuver and close with their targets while said targets are distracted by long range gunfire.

Honestly, I'd be super happy if every once in a while, we could exercise some proper tactics in our game instead of doing the same thing in every fight as we did in pathfinder, except by now most of my team understands to stop grouping up and stop standing in front of people shooting, either friendly or not.


Well, in the times that you've played, has your GM produced battle maps with a lack of cover? If so, have people been getting shot because of the lack of cover?

If you answer these yes, then sure, grab barricade. If you answered those no, then barricade is one solution to a problem you don't seem to have, so take a different feat.


I mean, that's true. If your group can't or won't pass the hat and invest in a bigger mat, or if you don't have room where your group plays for a big mat, then there's either no real chance for sniper activity or you have to get super creative. We used to put a smaller mat off to the side when we played Battletech and someone went aircraft heavy, for example.

But if those are the hurdles between someone using a sniper rifle or not, I'm still not going to blame Starfinder. That would be like blaming the game if where I played didn't have any lights and the person who owned the play area refused to fix that.


I really don't want to think that it only works if you don't beat the ER/DR and the reduces it by 5 so you can maybe do the tiniest amount of damage.

But if it worked the way we want it to work, I feel like it would be worded more like the Penetrating Attack feat.

In any case, at least with the huge list of weapons and damage types, it's not as bad as it seems. I bet most people carry something that will do damage to whatever the group is fighting, even if you can't fully bypass the DR/ER.


Sure, raiding a building with a sniper on overwatch is a good idea.

More sniper rifles without unwieldy would also be cool. Or if your sniper wears heavy armor, broach the possibility of a tactical scaffold.

Or just have a fight start with the PCs and the NPCs a couple hundred feet away from each other, instead of the 40-60 feet we're all used to.

(On that topic, my homebrew game's DM still starts fights like it was Pathfinder, and it sounds like the APs still do too. We all have guns now, it's totally ok if a fight starts with 4 turns before melee combat happens. Embrace the future, folks.)


I guessed since there's a feat giving you DR/- equal to your BAB that DR/- would be the most prevalent.

And, Heavy Onslaught is awful. Even if it was the only way to bypass DR in the game, I'd still never take it.


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Unless you're playing in a society game, I'd talk with your players and GM about adding a sniper-friendly event once in a while. No reason a decent GM couldn't work one up.


I found an anti-gravity belt in AoN pretty easily, but not that umbrella.

I'd put it as a good step in the right direction, but after thinking about it for a few minutes, the way ships move in ship combat pretty clearly discounts any kind of spaceship sized anti gravity or inertial sump technology.

That said, someone should work on getting that statted up. Anyone ever play any Star Control? Who wants to zig-zag around like an Arilou ship? Come on, let me see those hands.


We have anti gravity? Did I miss the section on us having inertia-less drives in this setting? Seriously, not being a jerk, is this a thing that I didn't know about?


Given how many questions like this are answered by someone from Paizo saying "All the aliens can use all the things!" I'd say yes, an SRO can use whatever augments it wants.

But if you're really going to take the literal truth from the book and play by that, they can't use cybernetics either, since those aren't just plug'n'play 'robot parts,' but machinery built to interface with a biologic component.


A close range flyby would actually make a target much, much harder to hit. Given the speeds the craft would have to be going, your gunner is going to have a pretty short window within which to fire accurately.

Not to mention it's probably a lot easier to detect the emissions (whatever they actually are) from a spaceship, in space, where its probably the only thing radiating energy for a good sized distance, vs picking out just the right car on a planet full of cars.


Q Vos wrote:
Does a magic weapon (Solar weapon and/or a weapon with a fusion added, which as I understand it, makes a weapon magical) bypass all DR or are there times it doesn't?

Also, a Solarian weapon does not, by itself, bypass DR. Anything added after the fact (weapons crystal and/or fusions) may help with that, but the stock Solar weapon with no add-ons is just a fancy advanced melee weapon that deals kinetic damage.


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I mean, if it isn't in the books, then either:
This is information either unknown, not well known, or not generally known by the Starfinder population, in game. So, given that it doesn't impact anything besides roleplay, you can (and should!) make it up.

or

This is information that Paizo didn't think of, or did think of and didn't care if we knew or dropped it for something more important in a book. In that case, it doesn't seem to impact anything besides roleplay, so you can (and should!) make it up.


Damn kids with their noisemakers and electric hair! And they're still on my space-lawn!


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
I really like the Anassanoi, and can't think of a reason for the PCs not to have a Psychic Resonator on their ship if they're telepathic.
Sure, get into the brains of 5 crew members spending a month in the drift with nothing to do but sit and think. and think. What could go wrong..

For a detailed look as to why this is bad, please watch Nightflyers.


None of my tattoos have anything to do with my job, either.

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