*shrugs*
I'm still just in for $1 to keep an eye on things, but everything seems to be going okay from the Paizo side of things.
Contributor
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I just want the Hellknight mini. Also the contemplatives. And the lashunta envoy. And the...
I am wary from what others have said, but I'm trusting Paizo on this. I've seen some of the work they've done with Super Dungeon Explore, and I can't deny it's high quality. It's just a matter of fulfillment.
Here's hoping my 100 dollars are well spent!
e: make that 118, need the creatures for my eventual Incident run!
Skittermanders!
Large, unpainted figures going for $70+...not uncommon at all these days.
I was making reference to retail pricing you can find on some of the larger miniatures from Privateer Press and GW these days. For more boutique, resin, miniatures, you can also look at Mierce Miniatures (probably a better comparison).
Not trying to suggest that it isn't a lot of money...really boils down to the value one sees in it.
I know, I know: Resin is more expensive than plastic. But honestly, the benefits of resin are only accessible to the handful of professional level painters.
Or for those who aren't going to paint them.
I was making reference to retail pricing you can find on some of the larger miniatures from Privateer Press and GW these days. For more boutique, resin, miniatures, you can also look at Mierce Miniatures (probably a better comparison).
Not trying to suggest that it isn't a lot of money...really boils down to the value one sees in it.
And there's also Kingdom Death :3
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And there's also Kingdom Death :3
Yes, yes indeed ;)
[threadjack]
I'm a bit out of the loop - are Reaper's polymer minis also termed "plastic"?
Is resin the finest detail-able?
Are metal minis more expensive than plastic/polymer?
I backed and received the first Bones KS, so I have some of those as a reference, as well as oldskool Citadel and Ral Partha metal minis from back in the day.
Essentially if someone could break down the types of minis available today and their relative advantages and disadvantages (detail, durability, price etc) I'd be very thankful! I did some searching but Reaper (for example) don't seem to have such a breakdown...
[/threadjack]
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Metal, cheap and sturdy, but not a lot of detail without painting.
Resin, pricey and and the most delicate (not brittle but you can't throw them into a box like you would plastic), lots of detail without painting.
Plastic, inbetween.
Don't know what those Reaper's are.
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Thanks Rysky!
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[threadjack]
I'm a bit out of the loop - are Reaper's polymer minis also termed "plastic"?
Is resin the finest detail-able?
Are metal minis more expensive than plastic/polymer?I backed and received the first Bones KS, so I have some of those as a reference, as well as oldskool Citadel and Ral Partha metal minis from back in the day.
Essentially if someone could break down the types of minis available today and their relative advantages and disadvantages (detail, durability, price etc) I'd be very thankful! I did some searching but Reaper (for example) don't seem to have such a breakdown...
[/threadjack]
Yes, Reaper´s Bones are plastic.
Resin offers the best details because it can be made the thinnest - that´s why it breaks more easily than plastic.
Yes, metal in general is more expensive than plastic/resin.
In my opinion, the best (prepainted) minis available for tabletop roleplay are the ones from Wizards of the Coast made between 2003 and 2010 (D&D, Star Wars), because they are nearly undestroyable by accident (burning excluded) and the paint won´t chip off.
The newer D&D (2014 onwards) & Pathfinder minis (2012 to now) are not as unbreakable, but sturdy enough and often have better paintjobs than the older ones (especially the Pathfinder Battles minis).
And thanks Marco. I'm only uninterested in prepainted because I was under the impression they were more expensive (I'm fine with unpainted) and because the Whizkids prepainted minis I have seen on the Paizo site are to my mind by and large poorly detailed and the paint jobs made them look worse. I was very happy with the quality of the Bones minis, and like the level of detail of Reaper's metal minis I can see on their site.
The ND Starfinder minis look fantastic, but the bundled price makes it prohibitive for me at this time.
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There are all sorts of different plastic compounds.
Also, metal is NOT cheap, the larger a mini gets, the more metal gets pricier than plastic, which generally is the cheapest possibility.
It´s also not entirely true, that resin is pricier than plastic, it mostly is, but it really depends on the kind of miniature.
For instance: the "Behemoth" Kickstarter (essentially a painted 8 x 8 Tarasque), which i backed, had to be changed from plastic to resin, because a plastic version would have cost double the amount.
In general, plastic is the cheapest possibility (if a very cheap, undetailed mini like Reaper´s Bones are made).
Generally, resin is the next material in line (depending on the detail of the mini).
Metal almost always is the priciest possibility.
Of course you can get older metal minis cheaper nowadays, because almost nobody uses them anymore due to weight and higher difficulty to paint.
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In order from best detail to least (from a miniature painters perspective)
Reaper Bones - Most metal minis - Hard Plastics (citadel and privateer press) - Resin.
Reaper Bones plasticmis basicaly PVC. Super flexible and not easy to break. But the detail on the minis is very variable. I've had some great sculpts that painted up superbly with them, and others that were Aweful. They are cheap though.
I find the metal sculpts used by Corvus Belli for their game - Infinity, are really quite good. You pay more per mini but get beautiful results without much work.
Privateer Press and Games Workshop have gorgeous sculpts and their plastic holds detail really well. It's damage resistant ( for the most, but thin parts do,snap). But their prices put them outside the range of what I'd buy for a roleplay game. Heck, they've even priced me out of their respective table top games now days.
The ones from Ninja Division are going to look nice. They'll not transport well. This makes them pretty good for character minis, since most players will only bring along on or two so,they're easy to protect. It makes them far less useful as a DM range though, unless yOur willing to also bring along a specialised miniatures carry case. Bringing them in bulk will damage them unless carefully stored.
What i do for my games now is buy the best fitting mini I can find for a character, and just use the Paizo pawns for the baddies. If that's up your alley, then these rein ones will be fine, but you probably don't need the full kick starter.
Thanks for the further info folks. An informative threadjack. I really appreciate it!
I really, REALLY want this project to work out. The concept sculpts look great and I love this theme! I'm not terribly worried about a timely delivery, but more the end quality and that they are all delivered eventually. I'm sitting on the $100 level, but have popped up to $180 and considered the all in pledge a few times.
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Metal, cheap and sturdy, but not a lot of detail without painting.
Resin, pricey and and the most delicate (not brittle but you can't throw them into a box like you would plastic), lots of detail without painting.
Plastic, inbetween.
Don't know what those Reaper's are.
Plastic in terms of minis can mean lots of things. There are big differences between the old D&D prepainted, Pathfinder Battles, and Reaper Bones. Hard plastics hold detail better, but can get brittle (see pathfinder). Soft plastics like Bones take paint OK and can take a beating in the minis box but you lose fine detail. added bonus, you can straighten limbs and weapons with a pot of hot water or a hair dryer.
Resins vary too. If the manufacturer isn't careful you can get bubbles and other defects. Never noticed it with Super Dungeon Explore minis or Relic Knights. I had an old Warmachine Colossal that I needed to fill in some small holes with putty and sand flat before priming. Filing down mold lines should also be done with a dust mask. Resin debris can be irritating.
I suspect for most people a quick blackwash will make the details pop out enough that they won't need to fully paint them. Skittermanders could be washed in blue instead of black. Might get the mini close to the cover art.
Soda Pop Minis were quite good quality in the past.
I don´t udnerstand the call for resin, since that really is a bad material. Metal absolutely rules in every aspect.
As mentioned above, Corvus Belli Inifinty miniatures are some of the best metal minis on the market and definately interesting for Starfinder, they have some aliens as well.
I would also say that the average price for a mini is 10€, that´s a bit more than 10$.
The 400$ all in doesn´t make me really happy though. Reaper got a bit too expensive with their kickstarters as well i think, just too much stuff.
I´m also quite happy these minis are not prepainted. Prepainted minis feel so much like smurfs or Happy Hippos from KinderÜberraschung.
Vallejo has an awesome grey primer. Apply that with a brush very lightly and then use Vallejo light primer very lightly on everything outstanding or where you want to have a lightsource before painting. Brings very good results for me.
Black primer is too dark for bright colors often.
EXTRA MOONDOGGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They've already committed to October of this year for some unknown quantity of miniatures for their overseas backers. Granted, it is just another promise following a train of already broken ones, but that is how Ninja Division does things: make promises to keep people off your back, do nothing, apologize for breaking the promise, repeat process until new Kickstarter slush fund is made.
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I noticed there is a new kickstarter by Ninja Division for the Starfinder miniatures but after reading the comments I am hesitant to back it because of the issues with the previous kickstarters from this company. They seem to be have switched names for this Kickstarter from Soda POP Miniatures and that makes me very nervous. Is Paizo aware of this companies failed promises and issues with previous products?
What are others thoughts on this Kickstarter?
Buyer Beware.
Add me as another in a long list of Kickstarter backers who have been ripped off by Ninja Division.I paid over $400 dollars for the All-In package and special order dragon. I have not received a single shipment. Not one.
I have sent multiple emails to Scott Davis over the last 3 months and each time he tells me my order is coming in the next wave of shipments. But no order ever comes.
My patience exhausted, I sought to cancel the charge to my credit card. Ninja Division can't take the time to fulfill any part of my order, but they can take the time to have their lawyers dispute my claim. They claim my request is outside the time limit - because I was a nice guy and gave them months past stated shipment date, they used that against me.
So now I am out $480 with nothing to show for it but empty promises from Scott Davis at Ninja Division.
This experience is a black eye for both Paizo and Ninja Division.
Buyer Beware - support Ninja Division at your own risk.
Right. So if you cancel too soon you haven't given them enough time to deliver, and if you wait too long you're past the date
Tell your credit card you're canceling unless they're with you on this one and report them to the better business bureau link above. There's enough angry geeks in this thread alone to tank their rating and cause them problems
Do it. They deserve it
I was one of the lucky ones and got two shipments relatively quickly. Even though I received these two shipments, I still haven't received half of what I paid for, definitely not 400 bucks worth. What a shame.
*Rubs chin* Have you tried contacting the customer support division with whoever offers your card? A representative may be able to help you get your money back if the circumstances are adequately explained. Besides, Kickstarter's terms note (paraphrased) that companies must either deliver what was promised or refund backers. Consistently being told you'll get stuff in the next shipment, only to have that not happen, is probably grounds for getting that refunded even past any initial "time limit".
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My patience exhausted, I sought to cancel the charge to my credit card. Ninja Division can't take the time to fulfill any part of my order, but they can take the time to have their lawyers dispute my claim. They claim my request is outside the time limit - because I was a nice guy and gave them months past stated shipment date, they used that against me.
So now I am out $480 with nothing to show for it but empty promises from Scott Davis at Ninja Division.
This experience is a black eye for both Paizo and Ninja Division.
Buyer Beware - support Ninja Division at your own risk.
Honestly, if you're this pissed off I would sue, they've lied enough times that you can make the case that they screwed you out of recourse (a charge back) through fraud.
At this point I am just wanting to hear if Paizo will admit that their customers were right when we warned them about SodaPop/Ninja Division handling a kickstarter.
I mean, 5 months late and many people still havent even gotten wave 1. I was lucky to get a partial shipment of my wave 1 order and I got some of the messed up Seelah's that I was looking forward to. No amount of soap will remove that shine.
Right. So if you cancel too soon you haven't given them enough time to deliver, and if you wait too long you're past the date
Tell your credit card you're canceling unless they're with you on this one and report them to the better business bureau link above. There's enough angry geeks in this thread alone to tank their rating and cause them problems
Do it. They deserve it
How do you tank someone below F rank? They're F Rank already, and have been for some time.
How do you tank someone below F rank? They're F Rank already, and have been for some time.Right. So if you cancel too soon you haven't given them enough time to deliver, and if you wait too long you're past the date
Tell your credit card you're canceling unless they're with you on this one and report them to the better business bureau link above. There's enough angry geeks in this thread alone to tank their rating and cause them problems
Do it. They deserve it
Lets find out?
We have confirmation coming in that a whopping SIX people have gotten shipping notices since last week!
We have confirmation coming in that a whopping SIX people have gotten shipping notices since last week!
Update: SEVEN!
Apparently (by their own admission) they are sending out defective product, and are doing so because the alternative is taking yet more time to screen out the misprinted ones...
Update: their customer service department has quit, and they're starting ANOTHER PROJECT
I'm kind of disappointed that Paizo has not said anything recently (if I've missed something from them somewhere in the last few weeks, I'm sorry).
Brand image is huge and this is no doubt hurting their's. Perhaps the small amount of Kickstarter backers is not enough to worry about but still it would be nice for Paizo to give us some insight into possible conversations they have been having, if any have occured.