Miniatures Kickstarter Ninja Division


Third-Party Starfinder Products

201 to 237 of 237 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Paizo Employee Customer Service & Community Manager

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Summersnow, I just belatedly realized that what the first part about post removal is saying is different than how I interpreted it. I think I conflated stuff from another post with what you wrote when I read it and felt really defensive, making my response into an over reaction. I apologize for coming on fairly forceful in my response to you andI intend to use this as a reminder for me to reread text before I post.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
Sara Marie wrote:
Summersnow, I just belatedly realized that what the first part about post removal is saying is different than how I interpreted it. I think I conflated stuff from another post with what you wrote when I read it and felt really defensive, making my response into an over reaction. I apologize for coming on fairly forceful in my response to you andI intend to use this as a reminder for me to reread text before I post.

Quite alright.

You have what I consider one of the most difficult jobs available, made only worse through no fault of your own, by a third party you have no control over.

And to be fair we have not always had the most cordial relationship in the past and I've misread at least one post of your in a similar fashion though I was probably far less gracious in apologizing for doing so.

I would like to amend this to add that I respect the job you do here, appreciate it and believe you do it very, very well.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

I'm a UK backer, I went all in on the ND Starfinder Masterclass KS and now expect that I have lost my money.

I was really keen on Starfinder and bought just about every Paizo and 3rd party product for it. Now I've gone right off it and, although I know its only peripherally your fault, Paizo as well.

Also, why are there Starfinder Masterclass miniatures for sale on Paizo's Store??

Liberty's Edge

MadMattUK wrote:

Also, why are there Starfinder Masterclass miniatures for sale on Paizo's Store??

Yup I'm pretty salty about that as well. I lost $400 bucks when ND never sent me a single figure yet there are a bunch up for sale on the online storefront.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The thing that gets me going the most is that ND is selling pre-painted miniatures with out fulfilling there kickstarter. It is wrong that they are selling sculpts that we paid for with out filling most of our orders. I have gotten 10 starfinder minis so that is about $28 bucks a mini but at least I have gotten something.


Dubgall wrote:
The thing that gets me going the most is that ND is selling pre-painted miniatures with out fulfilling there kickstarter. It is wrong that they are selling sculpts that we paid for with out filling most of our orders. I have gotten 10 starfinder minis so that is about $28 bucks a mini but at least I have gotten something.

When you are selling to somebody with actual consequences for failure to deliver, surprise surprise, you actually try to deliver. No surprise there.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

If selling pre-painted miniatures raises funds to fulfil KS orders then I can't say that I mind. I suspect, however, that isn't the case and we're doomed never to receive anything.

I was holding off until I received the miniatures to start running a Starfinder campaign for my group. Now, I fear, the moment has passed.

Paizo Employee Customer Service & Community Manager

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Sara Marie wrote:
I will continue to follow this thread and check in regardless of whether or not we have updates.

No updates at this time. I will check back in next week.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Thanks for letting us know - even when there isn't much of anything to say, it's always nice to see a comment. ^^


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Yes this feels a lot better, thank you Sara Marie!


It's nice to see some kind of response....but talk is cheap...im still out a good amount of money with nothing to show for it.

Liberty's Edge

^^ Yup!


Like many others I was really taken with the Starfinder universe and looked forward to running games, particularly as we had the potential to play with some miniatures. But since being burned for $400.00 all in on this Kickstarter my enthusiasm has completely disipated.
I will no longer fund Piazo or associated companies, and am planning to sell my Starfinder collection at the next convention I attend.
Criminal behaviour from Ninja Division and extremely poor response from Piazo.....


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Keep coming back to see the progress. Just very disappointed that when Paizo fans raised the red flags on Ninja Division we were told Paizo knew what they were doing and had confidence in ND to deliver on the project.

Glad I am only in for a little more than 100$, and feel horrible for the people who went all in. But everyone was warned by previous Ninja Division backers before the Kickstarter closed how this would go. Sad that we were right, and hope that the weight of Paizo will be able to pressure ND into delivering on what they promised.

Thanks Sara Marie for staying visible. Going to be very important if you want to maintain any kind of trust with those of us who donated money to the failed Super Dungeon Explorer kickstarter without our permission.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Did ND disclose to Paizo that it planned on using the kickstarter money to first fund past kickstarters?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I am also getting upset by all this. I trusted Paizo to choose good business partnerships. Paizo made a poor choice in this case. I no longer trust Paizo to make good partnerships. It's as simple as that.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

I can't believe Paizo had any knowledge of ND's financial situation as they wouldn't have used them had they had they known. I can't believe they would self sabotages there own company that badly.

I'm quite sure ND were very reassuring and had very good answers for any concerns the backers or Paizo might have raised, it appears they have had years of practice lying to backers, fans and partners and are very good at it.

I'm also sure Paizo made what appeared to be the best choice given the knowledge they had at the time.

Could Paizo have dug a little deeper, maybe, but then I suspect ND would have just lied a little better.

It would be nice of Paizo could give more information as to what possible avenues of recourse are open to them in helping backers, but if it isn't a legal issue at this point it probably will be shortly and I'm sure there's a room full of lawyers telling them to say nothing at this point.


kadance wrote:
Did ND disclose to Paizo that it planned on using the kickstarter money to first fund past kickstarters?

Very good question, I second it


kadance wrote:
Did ND disclose to Paizo that it planned on using the kickstarter money to first fund past kickstarters?

I have read this several times now. Which one "do" they fulfill? Super Dungeon Explore: Legend seems to stay as unfulfilled as ever, I think the best bet is, that the Starfinder money went into "overhead" like most of the 1,3 million $ of SDE:L


Maybe paizo should take notice that people are starting to post over in the kickstarter that they are cancelling subscribition to paizo over this junk...so even more lost money for paizo.

I wonder how long before they do something to try and fix this or will they wait till it goes viral.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Why did Paizo enter into an agreement with a company that needed Kiskstarter money? There are plenty of kickstarters with unfulfilled promises. Seems pretty foolish to me.


1) As been stated many, many times before, ND were the ones that took Paizo up on the offer to produce minis after eveywhere else had been turned down.

2) you have three ways to fund projects these days:
A) be funded by a much larger company (video game industry)
B) take out a loan.
C) crowdfunding.

Going with crowdfunding instead of getting a loan from a bank doesn’t make a business shady or lesser.


I remember when I started this thread being so on the fence about this and am so glad I never backed the KS. I do have faith though that Paizo does care and is probably more than likely pushing the envelope for you guys more than you know. I seen the pre-painted miniatures in my LGS on friday and as tempted as I was to purchase them I refrained from buying out of pure contempt for ND/Sodapop and the way they have chosen to operate their outfit.


Rysky-
I appreciate what you’re saying but there are many other ways to fund”projects” or grow a business. Going with crowd funding is a very risk free option for a business and is not always a sign that a business is “shady” but it does create an opportunity for business to run without oversight. If a bank were to give you a loan for a project you would need to have deliverables at different stages to get the funds released and you would also need to show that the money was being used for the project it was approved for. So what I’m saying is that crowd funding doesn’t make a product “ shady” it does make it a project that is more of a risk and the possibility for unethical practice or mismanagement is higher then if it were something with a solid business plan and bank backing.


More of risk, but also more of a reward for backers, every other KS I’ve been in has either gotten more stuff for my investment or I’ve gotten the product cheaper than come street date.

With banks though the hurt is on the company, and that translates to the potential buyers of the product(s), through interest, predatory agreements, etc.

With KS you’re effectively skipping the “middleman” to pay the creator directly. Getting a loan is not a better nor a more “solid business plan” option than crowdfunding.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I do want to point out the just released pre-painted plastic sets are selling very well in my area(SF bay area). Hopefully that is true universally and will provide some finances for ND and enable them to move on to the next round of the kickstarter minis.


roysier wrote:
I do want to point out the just released pre-painted plastic sets are selling very well in my area(SF bay area). Hopefully that is true universally and will provide some finances for ND and enable them to move on to the next round of the kickstarter minis.

ND already got paid for those, so fat chance there. Even if they did just get paid, they have debts to pay to their manufacturer before ND can even think about making anything to fulfill their current obligations.


What a messed up situation when you have to hope others will do what you are not willing to in order to benefit a company that you don't like so they can get their house enough in order to deliver to you products paid for long ago that you might not even want anymore for a game you soured on because of broken promises and lies while still hoping that after you get yours the company ultimately goes down in flames so they can't put anyone else through this.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Going with crowdfunding instead of getting a loan from a bank doesn’t make a business shady or lesser.

Less shady, no.

But a bank realizes its there money on the line and usually exercise more care and would typically require a company show they have a fundamental plan that is sound enough to have a ghost of a chance at success.

On kickstarter any crook with a dream to bring in some money, and lets be real, at the point ND agreed to take on this campaign they were far enough in to hole to realize they had little chance of success had they taken off there rose colored glasses, which makes them borderline crooks.

So the question of why did they go with a company that wasn't making enough off all of the other work they were doing to land a business loan or self fund is valid.

This is especially true given ND history, they pulled the same stunt on Palladium, which compounded with Palladium's own incompetence has pretty much ended that company.

Backers and Paizo were warned about ND.

I understand the answer, there preferred vendors turned them down, but that just means that the burden should have been on them to do the research in ND a bit deeper, as if it was there money and there company riding on the projects success, instead of backers money, because ultimately it could well be Paizo's money and there rep that takes the hit for ND's thievery.


Summersnow wrote:
So the question of why did they go with a company that wasn't making enough off all of the other work they were doing to land a business loan or self fund is valid.
Again, just because a company/person uses KS does not mean they're not viable, they may have never gone to a bank in the first place. Kingdom Death's Kickstarters is a prime example of this working greatly for both the company and its backers.
Quote:
I understand the answer, there preferred vendors turned them down, but that just means that the burden should have been on them to do the research in ND a bit deeper, as if it was there money and there company riding on the projects success, instead of backers money, because ultimately it could well be Paizo's money and there rep that takes the hit for ND's thievery.

They probably did the research, and thought they could keep adeqaute pressure on ND, and ND probably presented themselves in their best light given their circumstances.

Shadow Lodge

Summersnow wrote:
So the question of why did they go with a company that wasn't making enough off all of the other work they were doing to land a business loan or self fund is valid.

And the answer could likely be that the choices were "go with ND" or "the product doesn't get made".


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
TOZ wrote:
Summersnow wrote:
So the question of why did they go with a company that wasn't making enough off all of the other work they were doing to land a business loan or self fund is valid.
And the answer could likely be that the choices were "go with ND" or "the product doesn't get made".

Could likely have been that way.

Might even have been the better aspect to delay this project - in hindsight though, where everyone is smarter.
Now there are prepainted minis on sale and lots of backers who might not get anything, but are sour.
Good thing the Pathfinder Kingmaker PC game kickstarter went a lot better!

Shadow Lodge

Indeed. Perhaps lessons were learned.

201 to 237 of 237 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Starfinder / Third-Party Starfinder Products / Miniatures Kickstarter Ninja Division All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Third-Party Starfinder Products