Miniatures Kickstarter Ninja Division


Third-Party Starfinder Products

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*shrugs*

I'm still just in for $1 to keep an eye on things, but everything seems to be going okay from the Paizo side of things.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I just want the Hellknight mini. Also the contemplatives. And the lashunta envoy. And the...

I am wary from what others have said, but I'm trusting Paizo on this. I've seen some of the work they've done with Super Dungeon Explore, and I can't deny it's high quality. It's just a matter of fulfillment.

Here's hoping my 100 dollars are well spent!

e: make that 118, need the creatures for my eventual Incident run!


Skittermanders!


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Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:

Thankies!

Bloodbrother costs 6 Creature slots, so $36 right now, I expect it to double when it goes to retail.

For All-In I would only suggest if you want 90% or more of all the figs. Otherwise I'd take one of the other 3 pledges and adjust backing accordingly to get what slots and packs you want.

You expect a huge figure to go on retail for 72 usd? An unpainted mini at that? That's an insane price. Huge sized giants and such, even in metal, wouldn't fetch that price. You can get bones mini of that dimension between 20 and 30$. Many of the creatures are overpriced by a long shot, it's the only thing that sucks in the KS right now imo.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

Large, unpainted figures going for $70+...not uncommon at all these days.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
AJCarrington wrote:
Large, unpainted figures going for $70+...not uncommon at all these days.

I don't know about that.

This is what $75 gets you from Reaper http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/dragon/price/77381

Their KS had it as a $35 pledge, about as much as the Bloodbrother by itself. Getting just the dragon was a $15 option (2.5 ND Monster slots).

I know, I know: Resin is more expensive than plastic. But honestly, the benefits of resin are only accessible to the handful of professional level painters. The painted figures that ND is using as examples will not be what most backers will experience in practice. I want minis to push around a mat, not to put in a display case.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

I was making reference to retail pricing you can find on some of the larger miniatures from Privateer Press and GW these days. For more boutique, resin, miniatures, you can also look at Mierce Miniatures (probably a better comparison).

Not trying to suggest that it isn't a lot of money...really boils down to the value one sees in it.


Furdinand wrote:
I know, I know: Resin is more expensive than plastic. But honestly, the benefits of resin are only accessible to the handful of professional level painters.

Or for those who aren't going to paint them.


AJCarrington wrote:

I was making reference to retail pricing you can find on some of the larger miniatures from Privateer Press and GW these days. For more boutique, resin, miniatures, you can also look at Mierce Miniatures (probably a better comparison).

Not trying to suggest that it isn't a lot of money...really boils down to the value one sees in it.

And there's also Kingdom Death :3


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
And there's also Kingdom Death :3

Yes, yes indeed ;)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Furdinand wrote:
I know, I know: Resin is more expensive than plastic. But honestly, the benefits of resin are only accessible to the handful of professional level painters.
Or for those who aren't going to paint them.

Your eyes are sharper than mine if you can make out the difference in degree of detail between unpainted plastic and resin minis without holding them a few inches from your eyes.

Details only pop for me when a figure has been inked and dry brushed.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

It looks like some of the pre-sale Iconics are out in the wild.

https://www.facebook.com/justin.andrew.mason?hc_ref=ARRVUY8c8kiAK8J5bqCj9YZ WXhqmL-hKn9qXX0gsokIGhtE2LTPIW_1SLbqr26FAksE&pnref=story

From the pictures they look more like they are unicast, not traditional resin. Unpainted they look, to this 40 something's eyesight, like shiny Bones.

I'll check my local Puget Sound games stores to see if I can see them up close.

Still, they're the only game in town and the price per mini in the Kickstarter is close to what I'd pay for retail plastic figures (if I paid retail for plastic figures), so I'll probably end up backing this. But I will be kicking myself if they don't deliver or if another company comes out with a plastic line.


[threadjack]
I'm a bit out of the loop - are Reaper's polymer minis also termed "plastic"?
Is resin the finest detail-able?
Are metal minis more expensive than plastic/polymer?

I backed and received the first Bones KS, so I have some of those as a reference, as well as oldskool Citadel and Ral Partha metal minis from back in the day.

Essentially if someone could break down the types of minis available today and their relative advantages and disadvantages (detail, durability, price etc) I'd be very thankful! I did some searching but Reaper (for example) don't seem to have such a breakdown...

[/threadjack]


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Metal, cheap and sturdy, but not a lot of detail without painting.

Resin, pricey and and the most delicate (not brittle but you can't throw them into a box like you would plastic), lots of detail without painting.

Plastic, inbetween.

Don't know what those Reaper's are.


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Thanks Rysky!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Is there any sort that's flexible enough to be slightly bendable and such? So that if they fall to the floor they'd just bounce rather than crack.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Np Ocean :3, and Samy, that would be the Plastic, they're bendable and you can throw them into a bow with a bunch of others.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Thanks. Are plastics always unpainted or are there prepainted plastics?

Dark Archive

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

[threadjack]

I'm a bit out of the loop - are Reaper's polymer minis also termed "plastic"?
Is resin the finest detail-able?
Are metal minis more expensive than plastic/polymer?

I backed and received the first Bones KS, so I have some of those as a reference, as well as oldskool Citadel and Ral Partha metal minis from back in the day.

Essentially if someone could break down the types of minis available today and their relative advantages and disadvantages (detail, durability, price etc) I'd be very thankful! I did some searching but Reaper (for example) don't seem to have such a breakdown...

[/threadjack]

Yes, Reaper´s Bones are plastic.

Resin offers the best details because it can be made the thinnest - that´s why it breaks more easily than plastic.
Yes, metal in general is more expensive than plastic/resin.

In my opinion, the best (prepainted) minis available for tabletop roleplay are the ones from Wizards of the Coast made between 2003 and 2010 (D&D, Star Wars), because they are nearly undestroyable by accident (burning excluded) and the paint won´t chip off.

The newer D&D (2014 onwards) & Pathfinder minis (2012 to now) are not as unbreakable, but sturdy enough and often have better paintjobs than the older ones (especially the Pathfinder Battles minis).


And thanks Marco. I'm only uninterested in prepainted because I was under the impression they were more expensive (I'm fine with unpainted) and because the Whizkids prepainted minis I have seen on the Paizo site are to my mind by and large poorly detailed and the paint jobs made them look worse. I was very happy with the quality of the Bones minis, and like the level of detail of Reaper's metal minis I can see on their site.

The ND Starfinder minis look fantastic, but the bundled price makes it prohibitive for me at this time.

Dark Archive

There are all sorts of different plastic compounds.

Also, metal is NOT cheap, the larger a mini gets, the more metal gets pricier than plastic, which generally is the cheapest possibility.

It´s also not entirely true, that resin is pricier than plastic, it mostly is, but it really depends on the kind of miniature.

For instance: the "Behemoth" Kickstarter (essentially a painted 8 x 8 Tarasque), which i backed, had to be changed from plastic to resin, because a plastic version would have cost double the amount.

In general, plastic is the cheapest possibility (if a very cheap, undetailed mini like Reaper´s Bones are made).

Generally, resin is the next material in line (depending on the detail of the mini).

Metal almost always is the priciest possibility.
Of course you can get older metal minis cheaper nowadays, because almost nobody uses them anymore due to weight and higher difficulty to paint.

The Exchange

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In order from best detail to least (from a miniature painters perspective)

Reaper Bones - Most metal minis - Hard Plastics (citadel and privateer press) - Resin.

Reaper Bones plasticmis basicaly PVC. Super flexible and not easy to break. But the detail on the minis is very variable. I've had some great sculpts that painted up superbly with them, and others that were Aweful. They are cheap though.

I find the metal sculpts used by Corvus Belli for their game - Infinity, are really quite good. You pay more per mini but get beautiful results without much work.

Privateer Press and Games Workshop have gorgeous sculpts and their plastic holds detail really well. It's damage resistant ( for the most, but thin parts do,snap). But their prices put them outside the range of what I'd buy for a roleplay game. Heck, they've even priced me out of their respective table top games now days.

The ones from Ninja Division are going to look nice. They'll not transport well. This makes them pretty good for character minis, since most players will only bring along on or two so,they're easy to protect. It makes them far less useful as a DM range though, unless yOur willing to also bring along a specialised miniatures carry case. Bringing them in bulk will damage them unless carefully stored.

What i do for my games now is buy the best fitting mini I can find for a character, and just use the Paizo pawns for the baddies. If that's up your alley, then these rein ones will be fine, but you probably don't need the full kick starter.


Thanks for the further info folks. An informative threadjack. I really appreciate it!


I really, REALLY want this project to work out. The concept sculpts look great and I love this theme! I'm not terribly worried about a timely delivery, but more the end quality and that they are all delivered eventually. I'm sitting on the $100 level, but have popped up to $180 and considered the all in pledge a few times.

Grand Lodge

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:

Metal, cheap and sturdy, but not a lot of detail without painting.

Resin, pricey and and the most delicate (not brittle but you can't throw them into a box like you would plastic), lots of detail without painting.

Plastic, inbetween.

Don't know what those Reaper's are.

Plastic in terms of minis can mean lots of things. There are big differences between the old D&D prepainted, Pathfinder Battles, and Reaper Bones. Hard plastics hold detail better, but can get brittle (see pathfinder). Soft plastics like Bones take paint OK and can take a beating in the minis box but you lose fine detail. added bonus, you can straighten limbs and weapons with a pot of hot water or a hair dryer.

Resins vary too. If the manufacturer isn't careful you can get bubbles and other defects. Never noticed it with Super Dungeon Explore minis or Relic Knights. I had an old Warmachine Colossal that I needed to fill in some small holes with putty and sand flat before priming. Filing down mold lines should also be done with a dust mask. Resin debris can be irritating.

I suspect for most people a quick blackwash will make the details pop out enough that they won't need to fully paint them. Skittermanders could be washed in blue instead of black. Might get the mini close to the cover art.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Soda Pop Minis were quite good quality in the past.
I don´t udnerstand the call for resin, since that really is a bad material. Metal absolutely rules in every aspect.
As mentioned above, Corvus Belli Inifinty miniatures are some of the best metal minis on the market and definately interesting for Starfinder, they have some aliens as well.
I would also say that the average price for a mini is 10€, that´s a bit more than 10$.
The 400$ all in doesn´t make me really happy though. Reaper got a bit too expensive with their kickstarters as well i think, just too much stuff.

I´m also quite happy these minis are not prepainted. Prepainted minis feel so much like smurfs or Happy Hippos from KinderÜberraschung.

Vallejo has an awesome grey primer. Apply that with a brush very lightly and then use Vallejo light primer very lightly on everything outstanding or where you want to have a lightsource before painting. Brings very good results for me.
Black primer is too dark for bright colors often.


EXTRA MOONDOGGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Liberty's Edge

Still not gotten any of mine and I went in on the $400 level. A friend who did get his, now tells me his second set are coming. WTF!


I have also not gotten any of the minis from them. Is there any word on what is happening?


their site on the better business bureau


Erik Mona wrote:
We are aware of some of the issues with some of the earlier campaigns, but we are confident in the work that Ninja Division has shown us so far, in the Starfinder miniatures they have already produced and sold at Gen Con, and in their ability to deliver this project in the timeframe they have promised.

Well Erik, how do you feel about this decision now? Many, many months late, dreadful communication with Kickstarter backers and still no sign of any miniatures being delivered in the UK. This isn't doing Paizo's reputation any good!


They've already committed to October of this year for some unknown quantity of miniatures for their overseas backers. Granted, it is just another promise following a train of already broken ones, but that is how Ninja Division does things: make promises to keep people off your back, do nothing, apologize for breaking the promise, repeat process until new Kickstarter slush fund is made.


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ograx wrote:

I noticed there is a new kickstarter by Ninja Division for the Starfinder miniatures but after reading the comments I am hesitant to back it because of the issues with the previous kickstarters from this company. They seem to be have switched names for this Kickstarter from Soda POP Miniatures and that makes me very nervous. Is Paizo aware of this companies failed promises and issues with previous products?

What are others thoughts on this Kickstarter?

Buyer Beware.

Add me as another in a long list of Kickstarter backers who have been ripped off by Ninja Division.
I paid over $400 dollars for the All-In package and special order dragon. I have not received a single shipment. Not one.
I have sent multiple emails to Scott Davis over the last 3 months and each time he tells me my order is coming in the next wave of shipments. But no order ever comes.
My patience exhausted, I sought to cancel the charge to my credit card. Ninja Division can't take the time to fulfill any part of my order, but they can take the time to have their lawyers dispute my claim. They claim my request is outside the time limit - because I was a nice guy and gave them months past stated shipment date, they used that against me.
So now I am out $480 with nothing to show for it but empty promises from Scott Davis at Ninja Division.
This experience is a black eye for both Paizo and Ninja Division.
Buyer Beware - support Ninja Division at your own risk.


Right. So if you cancel too soon you haven't given them enough time to deliver, and if you wait too long you're past the date

Tell your credit card you're canceling unless they're with you on this one and report them to the better business bureau link above. There's enough angry geeks in this thread alone to tank their rating and cause them problems

Do it. They deserve it


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I was one of the lucky ones and got two shipments relatively quickly. Even though I received these two shipments, I still haven't received half of what I paid for, definitely not 400 bucks worth. What a shame.


*Rubs chin* Have you tried contacting the customer support division with whoever offers your card? A representative may be able to help you get your money back if the circumstances are adequately explained. Besides, Kickstarter's terms note (paraphrased) that companies must either deliver what was promised or refund backers. Consistently being told you'll get stuff in the next shipment, only to have that not happen, is probably grounds for getting that refunded even past any initial "time limit".

The Exchange

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Augustus Poe wrote:


My patience exhausted, I sought to cancel the charge to my credit card. Ninja Division can't take the time to fulfill any part of my order, but they can take the time to have their lawyers dispute my claim. They claim my request is outside the time limit - because I was a nice guy and gave them months past stated shipment date, they used that against me.
So now I am out $480 with nothing to show for it but empty promises from Scott Davis at Ninja Division.
This experience is a black eye for both Paizo and Ninja Division.
Buyer Beware - support Ninja Division at your own risk.

Honestly, if you're this pissed off I would sue, they've lied enough times that you can make the case that they screwed you out of recourse (a charge back) through fraud.

Liberty's Edge

At this point it'll end up as a class action. Maybe pennies on the dollar but at least its an F-Them. Wonder what Paizo's legal obligation is in all of this.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

At this point I am just wanting to hear if Paizo will admit that their customers were right when we warned them about SodaPop/Ninja Division handling a kickstarter.

I mean, 5 months late and many people still havent even gotten wave 1. I was lucky to get a partial shipment of my wave 1 order and I got some of the messed up Seelah's that I was looking forward to. No amount of soap will remove that shine.


Is Paizo doing anything to help with the concerns of their community?


BigNorseWolf wrote:

Right. So if you cancel too soon you haven't given them enough time to deliver, and if you wait too long you're past the date

Tell your credit card you're canceling unless they're with you on this one and report them to the better business bureau link above. There's enough angry geeks in this thread alone to tank their rating and cause them problems

Do it. They deserve it

How do you tank someone below F rank? They're F Rank already, and have been for some time.


technarken wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Right. So if you cancel too soon you haven't given them enough time to deliver, and if you wait too long you're past the date

Tell your credit card you're canceling unless they're with you on this one and report them to the better business bureau link above. There's enough angry geeks in this thread alone to tank their rating and cause them problems

Do it. They deserve it

How do you tank someone below F rank? They're F Rank already, and have been for some time.

Lets find out?


We have confirmation coming in that a whopping SIX people have gotten shipping notices since last week!


technarken wrote:
We have confirmation coming in that a whopping SIX people have gotten shipping notices since last week!

Update: SEVEN!


I was definitely not one of them


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EU here. November was meant to be the final wave of shipping. I have yet to have one mini delivered.

I’ve only myself to blame as I’m a backer of super dungeon explore and knew of the issues in that. Just came here to have a grumble so sorry all


Apparently (by their own admission) they are sending out defective product, and are doing so because the alternative is taking yet more time to screen out the misprinted ones...

Liberty's Edge

At this point I'd like to see even a defective one. All I've gotten is ripped off.


Update: their customer service department has quit, and they're starting ANOTHER PROJECT


I'm kind of disappointed that Paizo has not said anything recently (if I've missed something from them somewhere in the last few weeks, I'm sorry).
Brand image is huge and this is no doubt hurting their's. Perhaps the small amount of Kickstarter backers is not enough to worry about but still it would be nice for Paizo to give us some insight into possible conversations they have been having, if any have occured.

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