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Dear Lady Gloriana Morilla,
I wish to thank you personally for the inspiration that has given me the power to fight for the future we believe in. Having risen to a post of some stature once, and having lost it due to the unwillingness of supposed allies has left harsh lessons. A Future worth fighting for. A world where those of noble skill and hearts unify to ensure all are prosperous.
My work, would not be a thing if not for the Court's inclusion of me in the Society. I have garnered the resources to test a powerful new weapon. One I believe will ensure those unwilling to meet diplomacy, will falter. As well as those whom need protection, will find a wall to shelter them. While my tongue is silver, this weapon is the collective worth of many a strong warrior.
I've included some details in this letter about the weapon which I've dubbed the Mark-One. It's uses a simple and overlooked spell of some potency. I believe with it, on the front of efforts that cannot be so simply solved with words we will have little to worry about going forward.
Thank you for your faith, and guidance.
-Karai Lamarchand Snillore
Man am I nervous. This is my first time building a guide and I tried my best to stick to what the general community seems to do with these things. I've been working months on this. It all started when I stumbled into the spell, having mistaken it for another spell on my Occultist's spell list for a home game.
Later, I started to explore it's uses in Society play and found myself fascinated with the RP aspect of being a Mech Pilot in Golorian. I'm pretty nervous about sharing this, and plan to respond to all questions the best I can. I also plan to keep the guide updated as I learn more, as well as create an eventual FAQ.
The Build, has been tested in seven scenarios. When I say build, I mean mechanic. As it is really more utilizing a singular spell to pull off the entire RP. However it is freaking strong and I've started asking my DMs/GMs before I play if I have permission to play it as well as warning them and giving additional information ahead of time.
Besides some art that needs updated, and maybe some clean up this guide is sort of in it's rough draft stage. However I'm too eager and excited and really want to share it---and I will likely get some excellent feedback post.
For now, please, enjoy and give feed back (and corrections!) my guide to being a Mech Pilot in Pathfinder!
Also please excuse the crazy IC post. I got pretty damn excited and decided I'd do a little RP with this. I.. Half expect something to be banned or errated out to fix this crazy nonsense too... Ha.
- Scenerio 33: Assault on the Kingdom of the Impossible
Scroll cast was successful. Was only useful for one fight, however decimated the enemy. Became unable to progress due to underground. - Scenario #5-19: The Horn of Aroden
Was successfully cast early in. Decimated the first two battles.
Ran out before the third due to excess time for travel. GM doubled the presence of one enemy and soaked most of what may of been a TPK if not for the Suit. Two enemies took more then one round to kill,
rest died immediately. - Scenario #8-16: House of Harmonious Wisdom
Suit was never popped. Didn't need to. - Scenario #8-14: To Seal the Shadow
Enemies had the upper hand. Had to pop suit early. Before could reach combat, bard countersonged. Suit was not useful for next portion so left suit. Other skills came in handy. - Scenario #8-01: Portent's Peril
Popped suit and Burrowed under house to use the enemies own tunnels. Devastated the enemy. Had to leave suit to act as Face for party. - Scenario #7-08: To Judge a Soul, Part 2
Popped suit to deal with difficult terrain. Rescued ally who had fallen into river. Used inside of suit as shelter before encounter with enemy. Was able to detain enemy. Second fight used enemy's cover to climb speed into them faster. Worked excellent to make them focus on me. Final enemy destroyed upon contact. Little resistance. - Scenario #8-10: Tyranny of the Winds part 2
Avoided suit for most of game. Was playing up. First encounter was too easy, second utilized Occultist necromantic servant till out of focus points and swarmed enemy. Third fight opening TPK'd party except self--self rescued party and destroyed enemy.
First off, awesome job with the build! It's formatted really clearly and explains the concept super thoroughly. My only comment on the build is that while I love the concept (I was thinking either Mech Warrior or Gundam the entire time) I can't really come up with a reasonable way to have enough gold to make this build viable. 1,250 gold per day (since one casting will last you basically an entire adventuring day, or thereabouts) is a LOT of money. While I'm not well versed in PFS, I know that I've never played an AP where I would have access to that kind of disposable cash before mid-high level play.
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Very interesting build! Crazy crazy stuff.
One MAJOR thing I think is missing is a discussion of the best ways to move the suit around when you're not using it. Are there (hopefully cheap) spells that can help with this? Do any of the Occultist or other class's powers help with this? etc.
I agree with Battletoad that it's a lot of cash to toss around, but if you're in a game where combat is a bit less frequent, and you're relying just as much on your skills, I think this is totally doable... especially since the Occultist is a great all-around class on its own.
I'm gonna have to play around with this one, for sure. :)
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@Captain Battletoad:Great point! This is actually the most painful part of the build. You toss a lot of gold at it, and as a result end up insanely powerful for the course of most adventures.
On average at low levels you make something from 500 to 700 gold an adventure. I advise GMing some scenarios to fill in the gaps. Later, in more mid level ranges like 5 to 7, you can start making upwards of 2K an adventure. While yes, you could just pay to give yourself magic items. The sheer amount of damage, health, and defense you get from going Mech are much larger then a lot of what you'd be able to buy.
It may not be the most gold efficient, but remembering that you have allies who will likely have their own survivability and capabilities in between, mixed with your own unused skills should easily sustain you to a point that you can throw away gold and as 11 to 12 tends to be an end point it's very unlikely you'll get to a point the suit will ever be useless.
Of course, you can also just play a Wizard and wait till your level 9. Be able to just cast it on your own. Has it's benefits and drawbacks. However I love the concept that with the Dangerously Curious trait, you can do this with any class. Really creates some crazy builds.
@Cartmanbeck: Also Great Point! I will work on creating a section for transportation immediately. I'll have to dig up some strength charts, but it's actually relatively simple just another initial gold drop along with some Prestige.
Glad you are having fun, and that this is working for you in PFS but I wouldn't recommend something like this for PFS generally. As you mention, coordination with a GM before hand is necessary, and you can expect some table variation.
While there are a few minor quibbles I have with some of what you have written they really don't effect the viability of the concept (as an example, occultist Physicial enhancement can't give a CHA bonus) but there is one thing I think you are misinterpreting that, while not invalidating the concept, does change slightly (possibly significantly in some cases.)
You are correct that animated objects have construction points, and although you note that the animate object spell doesn't say anything about assigning construction points, you seem to decide that it does let the player/character choose what points to assign at the time of casting. I believe this is incorrect.
If an object has points, but the player doesn't get to assign them, then the logical inference is that the GM should assign them as he sees fit. If my character casts animate object on a huge table, the GM should decide, based on what makes sense to him, how the 5 construction points should be spent. For example, if the table is metal, two of the points will be spent on metal.
To an extent, this is probably a distinction without a difference, as a player and GM can work out together what makes sense for a given object for example, the statue is stone and has 3 arms so those points are pretty obvious in how they should be spent.
Where it could make quite a difference though is if you are planning on spending these on the fly (which you seem to be doing) and changing how the construction points are spent for different castings on the same object. i.e. today it has a burrow speed, tomorrow it will fly. I don't see anything that justifies that, animating a given object should result in exactly the same construction point expenditures every time. If you want to be able to have a flying statue one day, and a burrowing statue the next, you would have to have two different statues (probably one with wings and one with digging claws or something similar.) Obviously, since getting even one statue from place to place is a challenge, this is fairly impractical and does reduce the utility a bit.
I love this. The whole idea is so audaciously awesome. I'm going to do some book diving later to see if I can find anything to support this further. Also, it might be worth mentioning that if you can get GM permission a custom magic item that gives 1/day usage of Possess Objects costs 16200 gp, or about 13 days worth of operating costs.
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@Dave Justus: Excellent Point! In fact I've had portions of this discussion before, so I'll go over what I can.
First, thank you for correcting me on the Occultist's stat bonus. I had misread and did not realize it could not be applied to Cha. I'll go to fix that shortly after this post.
Second, that is a very good observation about who should get to assign the construction points. I do assume the player does, mostly for ease of the GM--However in light of this I think I will bring this up prior to any run with this character first. See what they see/feel fit. Luckily the suggested material is masonry stone which is stone, and as it is a statue, and art by that can really take on any appearance. The key at that point is creativity. The way I've been playing it, is that while in-active it takes the form of a large rock, that all the parts have been folded in. When it animates it unrolls into it's normal form. I've been playing that, it has interchangeable parts, or pieces that can be slid into place. While a bit far fetched it does fit in with being a piece of art.
I think I should include a disclaimer encouraging that the talk of who should assign the points be brought up prior to each game. I imagine my GM will be excited and will likely roll on a die what I get. . . God the horror. My main DM is the devil. Let me tell you. Wonderful woman, but the devil.
For the most part, I've presented my suit as having claws, allowing for climb or burrow to be interchangeable, and recommend against flight as clumsy is a -8 and huge is a -8 to that check as well. Much rather activate it as part of a class ability. Plus interchangeable parts is not unreasonable, in a world of magic, cybernetics (though these aren't legal in PFS play they do exist), and crazy complex traps all over.
One way or the other. With this input I'm going to add some stuff to the guide! I think this helps excellently with being sure that it is all tip top!
One other thing I have noted. You attack stats are quite a bit off.
First off, the attack bonus of +15 for the slam is what a non-possessed animate object would have. You don't have the same number, due to using your own BAB (2 instead of 5, although I can't quite make the math add up for the animated object in the d20pfsrd entry which appears to be what you used.) I don't see anything except for BAB and STR that would give you an attack bonus so it should be +2 (BAB) + 10 (STR) -2 (size) for a total of +10 to hit, quite a bit less than the +15 you seem to be using.
You also have a problem with your damage. Normally, a possession type effect wouldn't change the damage the base creature does since that is just based on size and str and physical abilities and that remains true here, but what you have done with the construction points does change the creature.
The sample huge animated object does 1d8+15. It gets the plus 15, instead of just +10 due to str, from the following rule from natural attacks: "If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls." As soon as you add more attacks, this goes away, so all of the attacks will only do +10 instead of +15 points of damage. Again, quite a difference.
This is kind of an example of why this idea is problematic for society play. The need for a GM to go over a complex a fairly rarely used spell and make sure everything matches up and all of the math is done right before a session isn't really suited to that sort of an environment.
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@Dasrak: Beautiful! I had actually stopped looking at custom items as I was primarily focused on Society play (as it's all I do). However I should of freaking thought of adding that item in! Well now I have, thank you!
@Dave Justus: More Excellent Feedback! Thank you! Some of the rules being presented are things I believe I've simply not learned yet. I am fairly newish to correct Pathfinder play. I'm used to a bunch of err... Off people who don't even know what an attack of opportunity is. Moved lately and now I've been learning hard, via society play.
I'm currently scanning the documents to correct the numbers and include notes about the information you have given me. It is also very understood that this isn't the best thing for society play (I mean, alone you deal with small dungeons more then open fields). That is party of why I'm organizing and writing this guide. So that anyone who wants to play it, doesn't shoot in the dark.
I'm more then aware form scanning the forums that a handful of people have tried similar things before. I figured I'd take my hand at writing up something solid to read for it. Is there anything else I should know that I have incorrect as per the rules, as written?
Well, one thing is that even if a spell is on your list, you can choose to activate a scroll with UMD instead of a caster level check. A 20th level wizard with the spell memorized could if they desired choose to roll a UMD check to activate a scroll of Possess Object (although I can't think of a reason why they would.) Having the ability to read a scroll because the spell is on your class list doesn't remove the ability to use UMD for a scroll.
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Well, one thing is that even if a spell is on your list, you can choose to activate a scroll with UMD instead of a caster level check. A 20th level wizard with the spell memorized could if they desired choose to roll a UMD check to activate a scroll of Possess Object (although I can't think of a reason why they would.) Having the ability to read a scroll because the spell is on your class list doesn't remove the ability to use UMD for a scroll.
Agreed, you can use UMD to emulate a class, so even as a Wizard you could roll UMD to emulate the Witch, or vice-versa. :)
And at lower levels, I can TOTALLY think of a reason why they would... if you've optimized UMD as the OP suggests, you can have a much higher probability of activating the scroll using UMD than by rolling a caster level check.
Dotting.
This is art.
Well, one thing is that even if a spell is on your list, you can choose to activate a scroll with UMD instead of a caster level check. A 20th level wizard with the spell memorized could if they desired choose to roll a UMD check to activate a scroll of Possess Object (although I can't think of a reason why they would.) Having the ability to read a scroll because the spell is on your class list doesn't remove the ability to use UMD for a scroll.Agreed, you can use UMD to emulate a class, so even as a Wizard you could roll UMD to emulate the Witch, or vice-versa. :)
Well, not quite. You can't 'emulate a class' you can emulate a class feature, which has nothing to do with activating a scroll. It would be used for an item that say gave +2 deflection bonus to AC to any one with the bravery class feature, you could emulate the bravery class feature to give you the bonus.
Activating a scroll is it's own thing. To activate ANY scroll, regardless of what class you are, is a DC 20+scrolls caster level UMD check.
And yes, at low levels your odds for UMD are possibly better, although a 3rd level character with this spell on the class list would only need to roll a 7 to succeed, which isn't all that far off from what the OP achieved with no special investment compared to a relatively huge investment. Along those lines, a witch would be an excellent choice for this concept, because hexes are supernatural abilities that could be used while possessing an object.
Beautiful <3 BEAUTIFUL! <3 This bumps the Wizard's usefulness a lot. Cause scroll early in until you learn it then. BOOM. Knowing the spell first hand is a serious game changer!
If I were to try this concept, I would probably go with a full caster option.
The biggest issue though is that when you get to the point where you can actually cast the spell, it is pretty much not a great choice anymore. Our hypothetical 9th level wizard or witch could make 3 attacks at +12 to hit for 1d8 + 10 damage, which at 9th level is going to be quite a bit weaker than your melee guys or they could not be in a suit and cast a different spell that can radically alter the course of the battle. Additionally, either at this point or pretty soon our construct 'suit' isn't very invulnerable any more, likely to be destroyed in a single combat, so the long duration is likely an illusion.
The good news for us, is that unlike the build you have posted, other than the money we have spent up to this point buying scrolls we haven't invested anything in the concept, so even though it is becoming useless as a tactic, the character is still quite viable.
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And yes, at low levels your odds for UMD are possibly better, although a 3rd level character with this spell on the class list would only need to roll a 7 to succeed, which isn't all that far off from what the OP achieved with no special investment compared to a relatively huge investment.
I believe I am missing crucial information. Gonna dig up my core book to follow through but if you wouldn't mind helping me. I thought the caster level check was just a D20, and I havn't seen anything indicating a bonus. Then again I've mostly been looking at just the UMD block of text--and wasn't able to get much input on caster level check.
And yes, at low levels your odds for UMD are possibly better, although a 3rd level character with this spell on the class list would only need to roll a 7 to succeed, which isn't all that far off from what the OP achieved with no special investment compared to a relatively huge investment.I believe I am missing crucial information. Gonna dig up my core book to follow through but if you wouldn't mind helping me. I thought the caster level check was just a D20, and I havn't seen anything indicating a bonus. Then again I've mostly been looking at just the UMD block of text--and wasn't able to get much input on caster level check.
As the name implies, it's 1d20 + caster level.
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As the name implies, it's 1d20 + caster level.And yes, at low levels your odds for UMD are possibly better, although a 3rd level character with this spell on the class list would only need to roll a 7 to succeed, which isn't all that far off from what the OP achieved with no special investment compared to a relatively huge investment.I believe I am missing crucial information. Gonna dig up my core book to follow through but if you wouldn't mind helping me. I thought the caster level check was just a D20, and I havn't seen anything indicating a bonus. Then again I've mostly been looking at just the UMD block of text--and wasn't able to get much input on caster level check.
Thank you Battletoad. I had at one point questioned about this and got, what is clearly now the wrong answer. This actually means straight caster level is far more useful as once you hit 4th or 5th level your chances are just getting better. I'll have to sit back and rewrite that section now that I have this information.
Making a list. Gonna have to do math to figure out percentages too and compare them. To get exactly whats what. I mean, the spell is only on the sorcerer/wizard, and witch list. So any other class wanting to do it still needs to go UMD. . . Right? I understand that correctly?
Yes, that's correct. Also for late game viability, is there anything saying that your construct can't wield weapons or be equipped with armor? I assume it has hands, so just for grins say you can have it use an appropriately sized great sword at caster level 9 (as I said before, 9 hours is roughly enough for it to be in effect for an entire adventuring day). Now a medium great sword has 2d6 damage dice, a large one has 3d6 damage dice, and a huge great sword's damage dice isn't actually on Paizo's given table of weapon damage by size. The rule is that a size increase causes the damage dice to go up by two steps, which means that the huge weapon damage of a great sword should be 4d6. Having an appropriately sized 4d6 sword is nothing to scoff at.
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Making a list. Gonna have to do math to figure out percentages too and compare them. To get exactly whats what. I mean, the spell is only on the sorcerer/wizard, and witch list. So any other class wanting to do it still needs to go UMD. . . Right? I understand that correctly?
* The Magus can use the Spell Blending arcana to add Wizard spells to his spell list
* Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue archetype gets 6-level casting off the Wizard spell list.* The Magician Bard archetype can add spells from other spellcasting classes.
* The Skald gets the Spell Kenning ability to cast spells from other class lists (including the Wizard)
* The Dreamed Secrets feat allows Clerics limited access to Wizard spells
Also for late game viability, is there anything saying that your construct can't wield weapons or be equipped with armor? I assume it has hands, so just for grins say you can have it use an appropriately sized great sword at caster level 9 (as I said before, 9 hours is roughly enough for it to be in effect for an entire adventuring day). Now a medium great sword has 2d6 damage dice, a large one has 3d6 damage dice, and a huge great sword's damage dice isn't actually on Paizo's given table of weapon damage by size. The rule is that a size increase causes the damage dice to go up by two steps, which means that the huge weapon damage of a great sword should be 4d6. Having an appropriately sized 4d6 sword is nothing to scoff at.
Possibly you could do this. You will have to supply the weapon and armor proficiency on your own of course. Even then, it doesn't help as much as you might think.
Our baseline 9th level wizard with a 3-fisted statue can make a full attack with 3 attacks at +12 to hit for 1d8+10 damage each. Giving the statue a greatsword (and assuming proficiency) we can now do a full attack for +12 4d6+15 (sword) and a single +7 1d8+10. Even if both hit (unlikely against CR9 foes where average ac is 23) our average damage is about 41. Hardly anything great at level 9. Magic weapons could improve that of course, but now we are spending even more resources on this concept. A +3 sword would still leave us behind the curve of even a pretty standard melee character, and we are going to keep falling behind more each level.
Armor doesn't help out too much either. Our base construct made of stone has an AC of 16. We could get full plate, adding 9 to that (for 6000 gold) assuming we have the proficiency, so now we have an AC 25. Attack based CR 9 foes are going to have a average attack bonus of +17, so they are still going to hit us most of the time. Once again, magic can help, but now we are spending more and more resources here as well. There really isn't any easy way to increase our hit points, which at level 3 seemed impressive (75) but by level 9 is looking kinda weak and in a few more levels will be in the single full attack range for our foes. Equally, the hardness that seemed like invulnerability earlier, is taking a lower and lower percentage of the damage away as CR increases.
Also for late game viability, is there anything saying that your construct can't wield weapons or be equipped with armor? I assume it has hands, so just for grins say you can have it use an appropriately sized great sword at caster level 9 (as I said before, 9 hours is roughly enough for it to be in effect for an entire adventuring day). Now a medium great sword has 2d6 damage dice, a large one has 3d6 damage dice, and a huge great sword's damage dice isn't actually on Paizo's given table of weapon damage by size. The rule is that a size increase causes the damage dice to go up by two steps, which means that the huge weapon damage of a great sword should be 4d6. Having an appropriately sized 4d6 sword is nothing to scoff at.Possibly you could do this. You will have to supply the weapon and armor proficiency on your own of course. Even then, it doesn't help as much as you might think.
Our baseline 9th level wizard with a 3-fisted statue can make a full attack with 3 attacks at +12 to hit for 1d8+10 damage each. Giving the statue a greatsword (and assuming proficiency) we can now do a full attack for +12 4d6+15 (sword) and a single +7 1d8+10. Even if both hit (unlikely against CR9 foes where average ac is 23) our average damage is about 41. Hardly anything great at level 9. Magic weapons could improve that of course, but now we are spending even more resources on this concept. A +3 sword would still leave us behind the curve of even a pretty standard melee character, and we are going to keep falling behind more each level.
Armor doesn't help out too much either. Our base construct made of stone has an AC of 16. We could get full plate, adding 9 to that (for 6000 gold) assuming we have the proficiency, so now we have an AC 25. Attack based CR 9 foes are going to have a average attack bonus of +17, so they are still going to hit us most of the time. Once again, magic can help, but now we are spending more and more resources here as well. There really...
Yeah, just a thought. To be honest, I think the best use for the construct as you go up in levels is in combat maneuvers, specifically grapple. A huge creature with a massive STR score can do wonders with a grapple, given just a couple of feats invested.
To be honest, I think the best use for the construct as you go up in levels is in combat maneuvers, specifically grapple. A huge creature with a massive STR score can do wonders with a grapple, given just a couple of feats invested.
I'm not sure, we are now spending precious feats to try and remain viable.
Average CMD for CR9 is around 30, so +10 for STR and +2 for size aren't going to get us there by themselves. If wizard or witch we are still fighting against our 1/2BAB, putting us at +16 vs a target of 30 before spending feats. 2 feats, improved unarmed strike and improved grapple would add 2, leaving us at less than 50% chance of success, but we don't actually have the DEX score to qualify for improved grapple when possessing the statue, so we can't access the feat. Using a construction point to gain the grab special ability can help a lot, giving +4 for our grapple checks and making it not cost an action to initiate, but then we are either losing an attack, a special movement or some hardness and AC. And we are still going to be having to struggle to keep this viable as we continue advancing.
Bottom line is the reason you don't see this spell trotted out a whole lot is that by the time it is available, it really isn't that great. The OPs premise of accessing it early changes that quite a bit, at 3rd level it is quite impressive, although then the cost seems extreme to me. Spending 1/3 of your expected wealth on single days adventuring seems crazy.
That said, the concept is fun and I don't want to come across as saying that no one should ever play this or something like it, just feel that it is important to point out that the numbers are fighting against you.
At 3rd level I don't see it for an adventurer. Now, for a special unit in the army, wand key ring supplied... Yoink!
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In the guide, 1 pound of gold should be 50 gp of course, 1 pound of silver 5 gp, 1 pound of copper for 0.5 gp sounds better still (natural attacks: spiky headbutt & torch sculpted into the arm.) A statue made of a couple of tons of charcoal sounds like something that'd fall to pieces in minutes in a trip in a simple wagon over rutted roads.
Gotta say this is glorious.
This seems like a Magi thing to my way of thinking. Even if it works better with other classes, it just seems like something a magi would do.
You can't talk while piloting, but could you cast spells with the silent meta magic feat and eschew materials?
Maybe some sort of telepathy effect would be useful?
Then you could talk while piloting.
So cheapest suits:
Charcoal-6 gp (Huge)/3 gp (large)- weakness low Hardness likely flammable/vulnerable.
Coal: 10gp (Huge)/5 gp (large)- weakness low Hardness likely flammable/vulnerable.
Gold: 400gp (Huge)/200 gp(large)
Iron: 400gp (Huge)/200 gp(large)
Masonry Stone: 200gp (Huge)/100 gp(large)
Surprised gold is so cheap.
I love your example character.
You can't talk while piloting, but could you cast spells with the silent meta magic feat and eschew materials?
No, the Possess Object spell specifically says you can't cast spells.
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@The Sideromancer: Stone Shape! I assumed stone shape would only allow me to alter the statue if I could alter the whole thing, it didn't strike me it would still alter pieces of the statue! Brilliant! I'll have to add a section about this.
@Captain Battletoad: Excellent Question! I assume, that your feats are maintained in the form. Though I could just be taking less literally the description of the spell then I should. It sort of doesn't make sense to lose your knowledge, and retaining your mental abilities, I would assume falls on things you've learned.
So unless I'm really incorrect, you should retain your Proficencies at no extra cost. Just more junk to drag around.
@Dasrak: Beautiful! I'll have to make a list of this. Seems my whole opening premise needs reworked and this list will be excellent help in being clear in the options before the player wanting to do this build!
@Dave Justus: Great Points! I'll have to add information for late game viability. However even if the suit goes down, it can be mended later and is cheap to replace. In the end, it means the enemy has 75 points of HP, hardness 8 to break through first in order to actually face you. If your a front line melee class, you've likely already got stuff in your own build that synergies with this. Yeah fist fighting as a wizard is going to be rough, but fist fighting as a barbarian doing this?
For me Late game is partly about movement. As an Occultist I can do short distance teleportation, and perfect flight using my focus powers. Roll in deal some damage, provide flanking for others, and be generally perceived as a bigger threat to allow my allies an in.
In Campaign late game It slowly becomes less and less useful (though if it's on your list you eventually can possess gargantuan things and when is there not something that big around? ;3) but it works much like any other buff spell, in that it forces more obstacles against the enemy. In Society, I doubt when you hit the cap you'll see enemies large enough that the suit isn't making some kind of difference.
---Oh gonna just start quoting here.
Yeah, just a thought. To be honest, I think the best use for the construct as you go up in levels is in combat maneuvers, specifically grapple. A huge creature with a massive STR score can do wonders with a grapple, given just a couple of feats invested.
I agree, it isn't many points to add grab and I've rarely been in a game at high enough levels that I figure it would matter. Plus if you do this AS a brawler, your not sacrificing anything your not using out of the suit for it.
That said, the concept is fun and I don't want to come across as saying that no one should ever play this or something like it, just feel that it is important to point out that the numbers are fighting against you.
=D We appreciate it. It's good to have this constructive criticism you are giving. Super helpful. So far it has provided excellent questions and points. I will continue testing until the society cap at, 11 or 12, and make some final adjustments then. So far up through 7 I've had rarely anything do even a few points past my hardness, or survive me reaching melee. We'll see a change in that with some of the corrections made here, but I'd say it's more viable then, lets compare some odd things here, some of the pregens of level or some other builds of level. It's not perfect optimization, but it is trying to optimize a fun idea. =)
I think it'll work, unless things start getting really crazy.
I also recommend in the build that you actually have your base ability scores at a point intended for qualifying for feats rather then completely using them as dump stats but it also depends on play style. I generally also recommend just going in for punching, and movement speed for positioning. Land as many blows as you can while they widdle at you, and your allies do their work. If you go down, you got what is at least a half way decent character capable of finishing what your suit and allies may not of.
In the guide, 1 pound of gold should be 50 gp of course, 1 pound of silver 5 gp, 1 pound of copper for 0.5 gp sounds better still (natural attacks: spiky headbutt & torch sculpted into the arm.) A statue made of a couple of tons of charcoal sounds like something that'd fall to pieces in minutes in a trip in a simple wagon over rutted roads.
I'm mostly following charts I've seen. Did I copy the cost down wrong? Or am I misunderstanding. Also that is correct. It's why I marked it in red. It is doable just not smart.
As I understand magic jar/possession spells, SLA's come with the "soul" being transfered. Hexes are SLA's; as such, why no reccomendation for either a) the Witch class as a pilot b) the Hexcrafter magus, or c) the shaman?
Also if you've got friends or consumables Ablative Barrier is made for this build.quote]
To be honest this is my 2nd Rough Draft. I was not getting much feed back in my local circles and I intend to steadily add to it as I continue test runs. All those classes I intend to add to this, but also because I don't quite know all the classes enough yet. Like Shaman or Witch. Both are fairly new mechanically to me ((a 3.5 player coming to pathfinder just recently)). I do intend to going forward add them. =D I just also may be way too impatient.
This seems like a Magi thing to my way of thinking. Even if it works better with other classes, it just seems like something a magi would do.
You can't talk while piloting, but could you cast spells with the silent meta magic feat and eschew materials?
The answer is no. The spell specifically says no spells. Which means no spells, silent or not. Also I agree to a degree. But any class can do this hardcore!
@Starbuck_II: Right?! It's freaking cheap as hell as a raw material. Also telepathy technically is speaking, as I understand it, so I figured it would be ruled out as a result. However if I am wrong I'd love corrected. <3 Also thank you! Karai has been a long running toon of mine in other systems, and converting him over normally he'd of been a bard. I took a friends advice that Occultist fit him more thematically and boy is it true! This mech thing was just a happy accident!
There's trade goods here - just scroll down a bit, whatever the attractions of a chocolate golem - or you can use the coin weights. 50 coins weigh one pound, and the metal weight is the same as the coin value.
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There's trade goods here - just scroll down a bit, whatever the attractions of a chocolate golem - or you can use the coin weights. 50 coins weigh one pound, and the metal weight is the same as the coin value.
Ahh! I see I made a mistake and marked gold too cheap. Time to fix it!
Additionally, your stumbling into some of the path I likely should of explained. An object that is 1/50th of a pound should have a density of 10.44, which is how we come to the idea that taking a huge size creature's weight and doing (weight) x 10.44 = the pounds of material needed to make the suit. It's one of the alternates I provide to building the suit.
Crazy how giving us this number makes for crazy silly times.
Awesome concept well done. Further option why not just enchant the mech as the item to allow the spell?
If your a front line melee class, you've likely already got stuff in your own build that synergies with this. Yeah fist fighting as a wizard is going to be rough, but fist fighting as a barbarian doing this?
The problem with that is, most barbarians are going to be taking a pretty significant hit to their damage output if they go into a mech form (or at least they would if they hadn't spent all their gold buying scrolls).
A wizard with a puny strength gets a big melee offense boost by possessing a huge object, probably at least a 10 point swing. A mid level Barbarian with a bast STR of 20, and a stat boosting item doesn't gain nearly as much (and unless there are rulings I am unaware of, being able to rage while in a statue is pretty questionable.)
I would expect just about any 5th level barbarian to do significantly more damage in a full round attack than an animated statue. Of course a barbarian could build (and spend more gold) specifically to enhance performance in the suit, buying huge magic weapons for instance, but now we are trading our 'in suit' viability for our 'out of suit' viability, and back to requiring us to protect the suit to keep it going.
Thinking about ways to be pretty viable though, while I haven't run all of the numbers, a Zen Archer Monk might be able to produce some pretty interesting results. You would of course need an 'in suit' bow as well as an 'out of suit' bow and to provide appropriate arrows (well, more Batista bolts for the big one) but you could probably get away with only the normal sized bow being a magic one. The availability of special materials for arrows and spells (or wands) of Magic Weapon/Greater Magic Weapon are going to get around a lot of damage reduction.
The real issue with that though would be getting UMD high enough to use a scroll. CHR isn't a desirable stat and while ZAM gets some good bonus archery feats, their are always more they could use and spending several to UMD is somewhat painful. I think it might end up being pretty viable, even in late game, in a home game where the GM allowed a custom item, thus making it just a gold expenditure and not a character expenditure.
This is a pretty cool document.
One of my side projects is similar to this. I've been writing a document based on the rules from the Iron Kingdoms and DragonMech supplements which includes rules for installing a cockpit into a permanent animated object and actually piloting it. It also includes a Rogue archetype that specializes in piloting such constructs, a "mech jockey" so to speak.
Just an editing note. There are several places in your document where you have typed 'form' and really mean 'from' based on context. I know it is an early revision, just thought I'd let you know.
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A couple of things to note as ideas.
Some spells cannot be cast on the animated object. Since it is a construct any mind-affecting, humanoid specific plus a variety of others just won't work. However, since some of these spells are mental based, they may still work since you are possessing the creatures. Something like heroism (which lasts 10 min/level, and also increases your skill checks) should still work. This can increase your accuracy and saves in your mech.
A familiar with a collection of wands could be very useful. Imagine having an improved familiar that can drop Mage Armor, magic fang or make whole on the construct. Could work well with builds like Eldritch Guardian Fighters as well, since you are already investing in UMD.
Pragmatic Activator lets you use Intelligence instead of Charisma for UMD checks.
Belt of the Weasel provides a +2 Dex and gives you Compression. This means a Huge Construct can occupy squares as a Large with no penalty and squeeze down to medium. Could make moving through dungeons more viable. The belt costs 10000 gp, so costs some resources, but like all Wondrous Items it changes size to fit.
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Just an editing note. There are several places in your document where you have typed 'form' and really mean 'from' based on context. I know it is an early revision, just thought I'd let you know.
Thank you. I actually am horrible at editing, and have a small issue where I tend to flip the middle portion of my words around. I'll have to go through and fix it when I get the time.
For that matter I may wanna rename it. I saw another guide with a similar name, clearly from the same inspiration.
A couple of things to note as ideas.
Some spells cannot be cast on the animated object. Since it is a construct any mind-affecting, humanoid specific plus a variety of others just won't work. However, since some of these spells are mental based, they may still work since you are possessing the creatures. Something like heroism (which lasts 10 min/level, and also increases your skill checks) should still work. This can increase your accuracy and saves in your mech.
A familiar with a collection of wands could be very useful. Imagine having an improved familiar that can drop Mage Armor, magic fang or make whole on the construct. Could work well with builds like Eldritch Guardian Fighters as well, since you are already investing in UMD.
Pragmatic Activator lets you use Intelligence instead of Charisma for UMD checks.
Belt of the Weasel provides a +2 Dex and gives you Compression. This means a Huge Construct can occupy squares as a Large with no penalty and squeeze down to medium. Could make moving through dungeons more viable. The belt costs 10000 gp, so costs some resources, but like all Wondrous Items it changes size to fit.
When I go to fix the issues above (likely in a day or two) I'll add these options in, they are stupid useful and I don't think I caught the belt of the weasel. I did find two other magic items that allow compression but more options!
Especially that familiar thing. That is a must.
2nd Level Dirge Bards can add any Arcane Necromancy spell (such as Possess Object) to their list.
As I understand magic jar/possession spells, SLA's come with the "soul" being transfered. Hexes are SLA's; as such, why no reccomendation for either a) the Witch class as a pilot b) the Hexcrafter magus, or c) the shaman?Ok, yeah, I forgot. Kineticist... Stacks of SLA's. 3/4 bab. UMD as a class skill.. God knows how the burn mechanic interacts though, I don't...
Other thought - races with big SLA's
Kitsune with Magical Tail feats ... Drow (noble if possible), Aasimar/Tiefling variant heritages.
Well, constructs are immune to nonlethal damage, so burn away
As far as I know Creatures immune to Nonlethal cannot accept or be forced to accept Burn.
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So any burn you have on your body would still be there but you could not benefit from burn, elemental overflow or gain burn while in your mech suit.
Though it is normally underwhelming, the Overwhelming Soul archetype which replaces Con with Cha as the primary stat might actually work for this build.
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-You do definitely gain CP for (effectively) casting animate object, but make sure you only pay for the things that are actually true about your giant robot (ie, if your object is made of stone, you can't get the metal perk).
-In PFS, squeeze is only a legal wand choice if you are a Vishkanya. Also, 2nd level wands are only 4,500 gp.
-I totally vote for using mending as the primary way to repair your construct. I mean, you only need to hit CL 62,640.
