Pierce the Heavens! A Pathfinder's Guide to being a Mech Pilot!


Advice

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Grand Lodge

Haven't seen anyone mention shrink item yet, for transportation. Turns a huge statue into a tiny statue, 1/4000 its original mass.


Zedorland wrote:
Haven't seen anyone mention shrink item yet, for transportation. Turns a huge statue into a tiny statue, 1/4000 its original mass.

Size category Huge statues are likely to be more than the 2 cubic feet per level limit on Shrink Item.


Simply Glorious. Excellent job

Sovereign Court

There is one big, awkward question, though: how are you making the statue? We're looking at a fairly massive undertaking here. Even magic doesn't make it that much easier. Fabricate would take ~9 castings at minimum CL, and major creation's duration is way too short.


Ok, I've been putting my GM hat on and thinking how I would rule some of these imponderables. This is just at my table, not a Society ruling. If they later officially override me, that is fine.

1) Gold of that value is not going to be a huge statue. Gold is too dense. I will try to do some rough math later.

2) I think the construction points would have to be related to how you made the statue, not chosen at your whim at the time of casting the spell.
If you make it out of wood it has wood hardness, if you make it out of stone it has the stone hardness, etc...
However, you could give it 4 clawed arms. Then I would allow you to chose whether it has 2/3/4 attacks, slam/slash/piercing attacks, or a burrow speed.
Would have to have the long body, tentacles, or tail to get the constrict.
Arms would have to be long enough to get the extended reach.
Large legs/feet for trample.
Etc...

3) Getting a huge metal or stone statue on/off a wagon or beast of burden could often be very difficult if you don't have some beefy folks in your party or substantial spell assistance. A lot of scenarios, modules, adventures might make it difficult if not impossible to take the wagon or beats of burden. Then what are you going to do if your transport gets killed, destroyed, or immobilized halfway through?

4) Some shapes of statue might be able to crouch down or curl up enough to fit in a Portable Hole, but again that is expensive.

Please Note: I am not dismissing the idea! I like it and might give it a try in the future. I just think some of it might be a bit more problematical than some seem to be assuming.


Illeist wrote:
There is one big, awkward question, though: how are you making the statue? We're looking at a fairly massive undertaking here. Even magic doesn't make it that much easier. Fabricate would take ~9 castings at minimum CL, and major creation's duration is way too short.

Can you explain your Fabricate math? I'm getting way more than 9 castings at 9th CL. I just want to check my math.


You should use Treasure Stitching to transport the mech, not a wagon. This method trades the weight limit of the wagon for a volume limit 10ft cubed, so remember to fold your mech down as small as possible when you release the possession. There is also a 100 GP cost for every casting which will probably stack up pretty high after a while although the duration is days/level so as long as you aren't needing to whip it out every fight (lookin at you Voltron) then you should be able to manage it.

Do Ex and SU abilities transfer with the possession? If so I think the Oracle is probably another fantastic choice for this build.

ElterAgo wrote:

2) I think the construction points would have to be related to how you made the statue, not chosen at your whim at the time of casting the spell.

If you make it out of wood it has wood hardness, if you make it out of stone it has the stone hardness, etc...
However, you could give it 4 clawed arms. Then I would allow you to chose whether it has 2/3/4 attacks, slam/slash/piercing attacks, or a burrow speed.
Would have to have the long body, tentacles, or tail to get the constrict.
Arms would have to be long enough to get the extended reach.
Large legs/feet for trample.
Etc...

Magic Jar specifically disallows gaining extra attacks from your new body

Sovereign Court

Illeist wrote:

-You do definitely gain CP for (effectively) casting animate object, but make sure you only pay for the things that are actually true about your giant robot (ie, if your object is made of stone, you can't get the metal perk).

-In PFS, squeeze is only a legal wand choice if you are a Vishkanya. Also, 2nd level wands are only 4,500 gp.

-I totally vote for using mending as the primary way to repair your construct. I mean, you only need to hit CL 62,640.

But are the magic items that can be activated for squeeze effects legal? Hrm. Could of sworn I got it from a reliable source.

Illeist wrote:
There is one big, awkward question, though: how are you making the statue? We're looking at a fairly massive undertaking here. Even magic doesn't make it that much easier. Fabricate would take ~9 castings at minimum CL, and major creation's duration is way too short.

Good questions, so lets start. Statues of this size aren't that uncommon in the real world, in time periods older then the general fantasy era-esque comparison of Galorian. Next, the answer really lies in how you get any gear at all in PFS. You just do. If you have the coin, you can just buy whatever your fame lets you. There are no questions. You just do. While explaining how IC, I'd say you just dumped a large sum of gold on the entire project.

Technically, as it is just a piece of art. A statue can be bought for 1cp. Which is kind of stupid and silly. It's why I've presented a much more, felt, list using price per pound of material. So there is nothing preventing you from buying it, or unrealistic amounts of really anything in PFS. The rules simply allow it as in between sessions, your just assumed to be wherever with access to whatever your fame allows you to buy.

Unless we're really wanting more on the RP of it. Which the society has a lot of resources and dumping gold on the right resources can get something built. Or if as a GM one would generally dislike it. Just buy a Heavy Wagon for 100 Gold and it functions equally well.

For the very small portion that is not society legal that has been described, and is intended for home games... That is where you hit a real pickle. You need to be in a larger city, have access to skilled craftsmen, and have the days to do so.

ElterAgo wrote:

Ok, I've been putting my GM hat on and thinking how I would rule some of these imponderables. This is just at my table, not a Society ruling. If they later officially override me, that is fine.

1) Gold of that value is not going to be a huge statue. Gold is too dense. I will try to do some rough math later.

2) I think the construction points would have to be related to how you made the statue, not chosen at your whim at the time of casting the spell.
If you make it out of wood it has wood hardness, if you make it out of stone it has the stone hardness, etc...
However, you could give it 4 clawed arms. Then I would allow you to chose whether it has 2/3/4 attacks, slam/slash/piercing attacks, or a burrow speed.
Would have to have the long body, tentacles, or tail to get the constrict.
Arms would have to be long enough to get the extended reach.
Large legs/feet for trample.
Etc...

3) Getting a huge metal or stone statue on/off a wagon or beast of burden could often be very difficult if you don't have some beefy folks in your party or substantial spell assistance. A lot of scenarios, modules, adventures might make it difficult if not impossible to take the wagon or beats of burden. Then what are you going to do if your transport gets killed, destroyed, or immobilized halfway through?

4) Some shapes of statue might be able to crouch down or curl up enough to fit in a Portable Hole, but again that is expensive.

Please Note: I am not dismissing the idea! I like it and might give it a try in the future. I just think some of it might be a bit more problematical than some seem to be assuming.

1) That is interesting. I would like to drop the response that magic, fantasy world, but I feel a lot of what I presented relies on a decent mix of both. In the end I guess that is up to GMs.

2) I would almost agree. Been intending to present my counter to this but I've been busy. Let us say you have an Adamantine Sword. You decide to possess or even just animate it. A sword is only a small object, which doesn't get enough construction points to be an adamantine animated object. It doesn't even get enough CP to be metal. At most you can make it stone with the single CP it gets.

While we do want to make sure the Suit matches what it realistically has, I think for certain things it needs to be waved as magical alternations as side effect of the spell. You simply cannot have an adamantine animated object, at any size lesser then a Colossal as none will have the point value for it. You could just give it to them if they have built the object with the material if you like as GM-but that is a GM call and not by the rules as presented. I guess this is one of those, guide lines vs home calls thing.

Additionally look at the construction point options. A few say that the object, requires the statue to have the appropriate parts where as others do not say this. This I think, is intended to reflect the magical vs physical nature of the statue.

I'll have to add a section about this to the actual guide post.

3) Leave it. Your still a fully functional class without it. I generally pop a few undead, stand back and let them smack things. Buff a few party members, and act to assist in flanking. I get to save my scroll for the next game and while I've lost my beast, I can still potentially recover my suit as we'll have the place clear and there is no reason I can't just go back for it later.

I can also just buy a new one as masonry stone is cheaper then most magic items. Usually too, when a scenario presents a physical obstacle that would prevent my progress it is also generally near a point that is just in between section travel. I'd get a feel for how close I am to my goal (lets say I'm heading for a tower on a mountain to fight a thing, I'd inquire from group or use my own mapping skills to figure out our travel time left). If close enough to our destination, I'll just pop the suit and finish our travel as my suit, get there, smash stuff, abandon the suit if I have to post.

The Suit, surprisingly is not the expensive part of this. Even the wagon or beasts of burden. What is expensive is the spell. So the suit itself, can be sacrificed if need be (and is partly intended to be done so in some situations) to progress.

4) Wait, wait wait. This can fit in a portable hole? Seriously?!

Also to everyone else. DARN I wish I could change the name of this thread. I had no idea someone else was already using Pierce the Heavens! As the tag line for their build. >-> Now I feel cheap.


It won't fit in a portable hole, the entrance is only 6ft in diameter

Sovereign Court

Ridiculon wrote:

You should use Treasure Stitching to transport the mech, not a wagon. This method trades the weight limit of the wagon for a volume limit 10ft cubed, so remember to fold your mech down as small as possible when you release the possession. There is also a 100 GP cost for every casting which will probably stack up pretty high after a while although the duration is days/level so as long as you aren't needing to whip it out every fight (lookin at you Voltron) then you should be able to manage it.

Do Ex and SU abilities transfer with the possession? If so I think the Oracle is probably another fantastic choice for this build.

ElterAgo wrote:

2) I think the construction points would have to be related to how you made the statue, not chosen at your whim at the time of casting the spell.

If you make it out of wood it has wood hardness, if you make it out of stone it has the stone hardness, etc...
However, you could give it 4 clawed arms. Then I would allow you to chose whether it has 2/3/4 attacks, slam/slash/piercing attacks, or a burrow speed.
Would have to have the long body, tentacles, or tail to get the constrict.
Arms would have to be long enough to get the extended reach.
Large legs/feet for trample.
Etc...
Magic Jar specifically disallows gaining extra attacks from your new body

Hrm. That does shift the build quite a bit. I had assumed the multiple slams didn't always necessarily require multiple limbs (just really fast striking). However, it's clear that what is intended is no more 'advantageous' than two weapon fighting. This means it should limit the maximum number of attacks allowed to 2 from the new form itself. Or a single construction point, leaving 3 for... whatever use you want. Huh.

Wow took this long for anyone, including myself, to catch that.

Also. Holy Mother of God. Treasure Stitching IS FREAKING AMAZING!

Shadow Lodge

Karai Snillore wrote:


Also. Holy Mother of God. Treasure Stitching IS FREAKING AMAZING!

At the cost of another 5th level scroll per use...


If you go Samsaran you can use the Mystic Past Life racial trait to get both Posses Object and Treasure Stitching on the spell list for whichever class you want as long as it's the same magic type (arcane/divine/psychic), now you don't have to use scrolls.

(I have no idea if that trait is legal for PFS)

Shadow Lodge

Ridiculon wrote:

If you go Samsaran you can use the Mystic Past Life racial trait to get both Posses Object and Treasure Stitching on whichever class you want, now you don't have to use scrolls.

(I have no idea if that trait is legal for PFS)

It is, but the race is very restricted.


it is restrictive, but i'm sure there are other ways to get around using scrolls


Yet another awesome build idea built entirely off of a single spell, and thus completely non-viable for martial characters to build without breaking the bank on UMD.

Real talk though, a non-magical mech pilot class would be pretty sweet, and could offer a lot of interesting abilities. It would even be decent as a Vigilante or Summoner archetype (though it overlaps with Synthesist and basically contradicts the Summoner's lore).

But back to this, it looks like a pretty great guide for a playstyle built around a single spell; I'm honestly quite impressed at the sort of conceptual space this opens up.

Have you considered a Ring of Continuation? Hour/level is already pretty strong, but with a Ring you can stay in your mech suit almost 24/7, which is pretty nice if your DM likes to throw night-time encounters at you...especially since constructs don't need to rest, heh.

Shadow Lodge

Hmm. Something else to consider for the suit build is the Amalgam ability from Tombs of Golarion. "The object is made up of smaller but similar objects..." Possess Object says a "Single Object", so I can see a lot of GM's not allowing it, but going with "The object" you might be able to get it in. It gives you a lot of flexibility.

Amalgam:
The object is made up of smaller but similar objects. Its ability to constantly shift its form grants it immunity to critical hits and flanking. It also does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks, like sneak attacks. The object can move through spaces half its size without squeezing. The object also receives a +10 racial bonus on Stealth checks.
Costs 2cp.

Sovereign Court

Karai Snillore wrote:
But are the magic items that can be activated for squeeze effects legal? Hrm. Could of sworn I got it from a reliable source.

If you don't have a Vishkanya boon on a given character, Vishkanya spells aren't in the Additional Resources for that character. If you were to come across a wand of squeeze in a scenario, you could use it with UMD, but you can't purchase one unless it shows up on a chronicle sheet.

Karai Snillore wrote:

Good questions, so lets start. Statues of this size aren't that uncommon in the real world, in time periods older then the general fantasy era-esque comparison of Galorian. Next, the answer really lies in how you get any gear at all in PFS. You just do. If you have the coin, you can just buy whatever your fame lets you. There are no questions. You just do. While explaining how IC, I'd say you just dumped a large sum of gold on the entire project.

Technically, as it is just a piece of art. A statue can be bought for 1cp. Which is kind of stupid and silly. It's why I've presented a much more, felt, list using price per pound of material. So there is nothing preventing you from buying it, or unrealistic amounts of really anything in PFS. The rules simply allow it as in between sessions, your just assumed to be wherever with access to whatever your fame allows you to buy.

Unless we're really wanting more on the RP of it. Which the society has a lot of resources and dumping gold on the right resources can get something built. Or if as a GM one would generally...

PFS purchases function on a whitelist, not a blacklist. The Roleplaying Guild Guide, the Additional Resources, and chronicle sheets make specific bands of options available. True, you can purchase a large amount of stone, but that stone would come to you unworked. Unless you can find a huge statue on a chronicle sheet or in the Additional Resources, it's not available for purchase. And, even if you were to use spells to create one, their effects (even instantaneous ones) end when the scenario does, unless the Roleplaying Guild Guide specifically calls out an exception for that spell.

Errant_Epoch wrote:
Can you explain your Fabricate math? I'm getting way more than 9 castings at 9th CL. I just want to check my math.

I just did a little back of the napkin math. A 15/15/15 ft cube has a volume of 3,375 cubic feet. But the statue isn't a cube and only occupies a portion of that area. I casually estimated that it takes up 1/4 of that area, or 844 cubic feet.

Shadow Lodge

The Spirit Warden archetype for Shaman will add the spell to the spell list.


Illeist wrote:
I just did a little back of the napkin math. A 15/15/15 ft cube has a volume of 3,375 cubic feet. But the statue isn't a cube and only occupies a portion of that area. I casually estimated that it takes up 1/4 of that area, or 844 cubic feet.

Hmmm, maybe treasure stitching isnt gonna be able to help much with its 10ft cubed volume limit then.


Illeist said wrote:
I just did a little back of the napkin math. A 15/15/15 ft cube has a volume of 3,375 cubic feet. But the statue isn't a cube and only occupies a portion of that area. I casually estimated that it takes up 1/4 of that area, or 844 cubic feet.

That's a fair assumption but I think you're forgetting that if Fabricate targets a mineral the volume is reduced to 1 cubic foot per level, meaning 9 cubic feat for minimum caster level. That would still require 94 castings to affect the volume you described. Proving your point that it's untenable to use Fabricate.

I'm not sure if Metals count as minerals but stone certainly should.


This is the coolest thing I've seen in a long while.

Shadow Lodge

Ok, some more things for you to consider for the guide.

First off, a great way to cart the suit around when you're not using it:
Needles of Fleshgraving have no size limitations and are usable once per day.

Some ideas to keep your suit running longer:

A Construct Channel Brick is for you to hand to the party cleric, and well let her channels heal you too. If she's got the Artifice domain, you'll get a bit more healing. (Taking Artifice domain for yourself isn't great, as the ability is Spell-like)

If you happen to be one of the 32 goblins in organized play, or you're in a home game, the Scavenger's Stone is some nice healing.

If you're working with another regular player, you might get them to make a sorcerer with the Impossible bloodline, allowing them so cast spells at you as if you were still a living person.

Similarly, if you've got a follower of Brigh around, (particularly with Deific Obedience) there's some nice stuff for you.

An Iron Priest is a great cleric archetype to keep on trucking.

Here's some spells. Obviously you'll need to get someone else to cast them on you, but maybe a ring of spell storing or a Vibrant Purple Prism Ioun stone will work. Most of them are also rather high level.

Rapid Repair gives you fast healing 5.

Make Whole will heal a bit, but takes 10 minutes to cast. The Greater version is back down to a standard action.

Hammer of Mending will heal all constructs in the area, but seams rather excessive. Unless you have a whole squad of mech as the party.

Unbreakable Construct is short duration, but adds 5 more hardness.

Semblance of Flesh will make you look like a... Giant? instead of a construct?

If the caster prepared from the Tome of Stone Wards you get +1d6 with every mending or make whole.

Ways to get bonuses to using scrolls or UMD:

Cloistered Cleric Archetype. At level 2 you get +2 on skill checks involving scrolls.

Magician Archetype for Bard or Counterfeit Mage Archetype for Rogue adds half class level to UMD.

Empiricist Archetype for Investigator uses Int instead of Cha for UMD.

Pathfinder Chronicler prestige class adds class level to UMD checks with scrolls. Earliest entry into the class is level 6, so probably not work it, but might as well mention it.

Cyphermage prestige class has a number of ways to make scrolls better, and you pick one each level. While there's some numeric bonuses to your scroll casting checks, the real winner is Doubling the duration of a scroll.

Esoteric Linguistics feat lets you use Linguistics instead of UMD to activate a scroll. Not sure if that's actually useful, but if you're somehow speced for Linguistics instead, I guess it's nifty.

Cypher Magic feat lets you cast scrolls at +1 caster level from the scroll's level, and gives you +2 to activate it.

The Covetous Oracle Curse gives you +4 to UMD at level 5.

An Investigator with Device Talent can use inspiration on UMD.

But, UMD and scrolls don't necessarily need to be focused on.

Pilot classes:

Unchained Barbarian Might be better for your rage. It's a flat +2 to hit, damage, and Will, but it's +2 temp hp per hit die, instead of the Con bonus in regular barbarian. Note for this and regular barbarian - your rounds of rage is partially influenced by your con modifier. I'm not sure how the construct affects that.

Sacred Fist Archetype for Warpriest is interesting for the same reasons Monk is.


Still going through classes - more to come.


I didn't see it mentioned previously in the discussion so if it has I'm sorry for the repeat. But I think your numbers may be off slightly for the "Custom Item of Possess Object". It looks like you based on this on the pricing guide in the Core Book.

Quote:
Command word Spell level × caster level × 1,800 gp Cape of the mountebank

However, if that is the case your number only reflects Caster Level x 1,800, you would still need to factor in the spell level which would bring it to 81,000 Gold (or 40,500 if you have Craft Wonderous Item).

Note: I could very well be wrong on my numbers, this is how myself and the GM that runs my game read the guidelines in that chapter. (My Wizard does a lot of crafting.) So if I am wrong and am in fact over estimating the cost of construction I would love to be corrected so I can reduce my expenses.


thistledown wrote:

Ok, some more things for you to consider for the guide.

First off, a great way to cart the suit around when you're not using it:
Needles of Fleshgraving have no size limitations and are usable once per day.

** spoiler omitted **...

Yup, thats definitely the best option for moving it around so far. Combine that with the Ring of Continuation mentioned earlier and the squeeze spells and you should be able to get it anywhere you need it


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Hrodwulf wrote:
However, if that is the case your number only reflects Caster Level x 1,800, you would still need to factor in the spell level which would bring it to 81,000 Gold (or 40,500 if you have Craft Wonderous Item).

81,000 GP would be the cost for a 5/day use magic item. If you look down a couple entries on that table it indicates that there is a discount for items that have fewer uses per day. Because the custom item is 1 use per day, the cost is only 1/5th the amount.

You can confirm this by looking at the pricing of Cape of Mountebank, which is used as an example in the rules you mention. It is replicated a 4th level spell, which requires caster level 7. Using the formula above that's 4*7*1800 = 50,400 GP. The listed price of the item is actually 10,800, or 1/5th that amount.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Errant_Epoch wrote:

I'm not sure if Metals count as minerals but stone certainly should.

I believe this is referring to the looser definition of mineral, as in 'animal, vegetable or mineral' rather than a precise scientific classification.


Dasrak wrote:


81,000 GP would be the cost for a 5/day use magic item. If you look down a couple entries on that table it indicates that there is a discount for items that have fewer uses per day. Because the custom item is 1 use per day, the cost is only 1/5th the amount.

You can confirm this by looking at the pricing of Cape of Mountebank, which is used as an example in the rules you mention. It is replicated a 4th level spell, which requires caster level 7. Using the formula above that's 4*7*1800 = 50,400 GP. The listed price of the item is actually 10,800, or 1/5th that amount.

That is the part I was missing. (and why the numbers weren't adding up when I looked at the example) Thank you very much for the correction!

Sovereign Court

Errant_Epoch wrote:
Illeist said wrote:
I just did a little back of the napkin math. A 15/15/15 ft cube has a volume of 3,375 cubic feet. But the statue isn't a cube and only occupies a portion of that area. I casually estimated that it takes up 1/4 of that area, or 844 cubic feet.

That's a fair assumption but I think you're forgetting that if Fabricate targets a mineral the volume is reduced to 1 cubic foot per level, meaning 9 cubic feat for minimum caster level. That would still require 94 castings to affect the volume you described. Proving your point that it's untenable to use Fabricate.

I'm not sure if Metals count as minerals but stone certainly should.

"Jesus Christ Marie, they're ROCKS!"

Yeah, I'm not sure if they're thinking "anything that's not organic" or if they mean working with iron and crystal (and maybe adamantine?). I guess it doesn't really matter for this discussion, but it's worth an FAQ.

Shadow Lodge

Ok, a friend of mine is trying to throw a wrench in things. If you bring in your weapon proficiencies... Are you proficient with Slams?

Shadow Lodge

Revisiting Sacred Fist warpriest again. Starting at level 3 it also gets basicaly Evasion but for Fort saves. Which sounds really cool, but... there aren't that many such spells, and I've only rarely seen them cast against me.

Heister is a Rogue Archetype. At 4th level you count as one size category smaller for fitting into an enclosed space.

I'm curious how this works with a Stonelord Paladin. Does the AC and DR carry over? Do you count as "touching a stone structure"?

Iroran Paladin - more AC

Inquisitor could apply Bane to your slams, which is always fun. But doesn't have much else special to the build. Persistance Inquisition would be my pick.

The Ranger combat style (Natural Weapon) might let you pick Improved Natural Attack for your Slams. Due to the chain of permissions needed, some GM's might disallow this.

Fighter and Barbarian both have archetypes for getting bigger weapons. So you can grab that Gargantuan Greatsword and swing it around. Transporting such weapons could be difficult.

The Steel-Breaker archetype for Brawler lets you start bypassing DR and Hardness at 5th

Shadow Lodge

Noticed another reason for Barbarian in a suit. You become immune to fatigue. Rage cycle as much as you like.

Dark Archive

Is there any reason the suit can't put on armor after you get inside it?


Transor Z had a jet pack/wings that could be attached to get it to the robot monsters. Even the power rangers had zords that became shields, swords, breastplates, ect.


thistledown wrote:
Are you proficient with Slams?

You are always proficient with any natural weapons you have. I think thats under natural weapons somewhere


thistledown wrote:
Ok, a friend of mine is trying to throw a wrench in things. If you bring in your weapon proficiencies... Are you proficient with Slams?

Except for druids while they're using wild shape, almost no humanoid is proficient with any natural attack. This despite scores of abilities granting natural attacks, from spells to alternate racial traits to class abilities to a few odd magic items. Proficiency in them isn't covered by simple, martial or exotic weapon proficiency feats. I think it's generally assumed that proficiency with natural weapons is automatic when you get them.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Where doe magic jar say you are limited with your new form's attacks?

If you possess an octopus, 8 attacks is the normal amount for an octpus, so no rule is broken by making 8 attacks, insofar as I can tell.

avr wrote:
Zedorland wrote:
Haven't seen anyone mention shrink item yet, for transportation. Turns a huge statue into a tiny statue, 1/4000 its original mass.
Size category Huge statues are likely to be more than the 2 cubic feet per level limit on Shrink Item.

Not if they are hollow. :-P


The closest thing to an attack restriction in Magic Jar:
"If you are successful, your life force occupies the host body, and the host's life force is imprisoned in the magic jar. You keep your Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, level, class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, alignment, and mental abilities. The body retains its Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, hit points, natural abilities, and automatic abilities. A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal. You can't choose to activate the body's extraordinary or supernatural abilities. The creature's spells and spell-like abilities do not stay with the body."


People keep talking about the Barbarian, but...Constructs can't Rage.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Shadowkire wrote:

The closest thing to an attack restriction in Magic Jar:

"If you are successful, your life force occupies the host body, and the host's life force is imprisoned in the magic jar. You keep your Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, level, class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, alignment, and mental abilities. The body retains its Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, hit points, natural abilities, and automatic abilities. A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal. You can't choose to activate the body's extraordinary or supernatural abilities. The creature's spells and spell-like abilities do not stay with the body."

I'm pretty certain that just means you still have one primary hand and one off-hand, and has no bearing at all on natural attacks.

Turn into that alien with four arms, for example, and you can't dual-wield (or multi-wield) any better than you could before.

Sovereign Court

Wow I'm gone for a week and there is soooo much to respond to. Holy poop. To be honest, I keep trying to update the guide based on feedback and information I get.

For all the Class, Item, Spell, and similar recommendations. I need more time to sort of go over all that before I can give a proper response (which may just come in the form of an addition or change to the actual guide).

So, I do feel though some things really really really need addressed. So I'll go forward with them and one or two other things on the fly.

Thistledown another fifth level scroll per use yes. OR you can pay the spell casting services cost, and it'll last for the allointed time. It appears to undo the spell simply requires a command word so if you know the word just have a service cast for you going in. Wont always be available so be sure to at least have the scroll for then.

Illeist Oh boy. Making me nervous here. I guess this could be argued that, you simply have a pile of stone and or rocks. I did go to the collective DMs in the area, and ask about and presented this as an option, and it was generally accepted. However I guess that does also mean it can be said no. Thus our backup plan. The Wagon. 100 gold for a Heavy Wagon is pretty cheap, a lot cheaper then buying a pile of material and assuming you can have it constructed into a statue--as a piece of art.

I'll need to triple check the squeezing thing. If it is only PFS legal through sheets and access to the race, I need to potentially poke someone to fix something of theirs.

Kaouse Is that because, Rage, is mind affecting or something along those lines?

Ravingdork Oh. That is a most interesting piece of information. So natural attacks can still be used but it couldn't swing like, 4 swords with four arms.

Errang Epoch ...Whoa. Yeah I'm going to have to remember to add that just so that it can be presented at tables. I think though I wont be adding anything today. Not unless I have a sudden moment of feverish inspiration to update the document.

Holy moley there are some ideas here, but I think everyone is kind of getting the idea why I love the potential of this!


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Karai Snillore wrote:


Ravingdork Oh. That is a most interesting piece of information. So natural attacks can still be used but it couldn't swing like, 4 swords with four arms.

That's my understanding yes.

Sovereign Court

Construct Type wrote:
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
FAQ wrote:
Morale effects, unlike fear effects, so far have not had a descriptor or a call-out. Anything that grants a morale bonus is a morale effect. For example, the rage spell grants a morale bonus, so a creature immune to morale effects would be immune to the entire spell, including the –2 penalty to AC.

While there is no specific guidance, nothing about magic jar or possess object changes the type of the animated object, so it would still be unable to rage.


Illeist wrote:
Construct Type wrote:
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
FAQ wrote:
Morale effects, unlike fear effects, so far have not had a descriptor or a call-out. Anything that grants a morale bonus is a morale effect. For example, the rage spell grants a morale bonus, so a creature immune to morale effects would be immune to the entire spell, including the –2 penalty to AC.
While there is no specific guidance, nothing about magic jar or possess object changes the type of the animated object, so it would still be unable to rage.

Constructs are immune to mind-affecting because they have no minds (most) or they are non-standard minds (robots). But possession and magic jar effects take your mind and mental abilities (and vulnerabilities) with you.

The Occult Adventures possession rules make it clear that a possessing mind, not just the body, can be targeted by others with mind-affecting effects if you know it is possessed.

Quote:
Conversely, a caster can target a possessing creature with a compulsion or charm effect. If the possessing creature is the only mind or soul in the host body, the compulsion or charm effect works on the possessing creature normally.

A possessed animated object has no mind affecting immunity to either others or its own mental abilities provided by the possessing mind.


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I don't believe that spells like Enlarge Person would work....since because Construct.

Dark Archive

Lune wrote:
I don't believe that spells like Enlarge Person would work....since because Construct.

However, the class abilities of Occultist (Transmutation) and Living Monolith specify that you don't need to be humanoid for their versions, and thus would still work. The Occultist one is only rounds per level though, so not that useful.


Lune wrote:
I don't believe that spells like Enlarge Person would work....since because Construct.

Letting your Familiar do the possessing would make a few other buffs available though.


True. I like the idea of the Familiar doing the meching. Do that.

Dark Archive

Dwarves and Half-Orcs can get Endurance through a racial trait. If you use that to qualify for the Living Monolith prestige class, what happens when you possess the statue?

I would think that because Endurance comes from racial, you lose it. Then you no longer qualify for the prestige class. So what happens to the class levels?

Thematically it shouldn't matter, as every single thing Endurance helps with, you're immune to as a construct anyways. But Super-Endurance doesn't necessarily count as the Endurance feat.

The Exchange

Snuf is an animist shaman that's now 11th level. I didn't do the UMD build, but went the slow route to 10th level to get access to the possession ability. And my build was more for damage absorption than for damage production. Even still, here's some of the tricks I've used, some of them could be beneficial to your builds, too:

Feats:
Barroom Brawler, Tribal Scars-Great Tusks,, Power Attack, Improved Familiar (Get one that can read minds or Truespeech and learn sign language so that it can translate for you.), Improved Overrun, Greater Overrrun, Toughness (HP sources not directly tied to your form are interesting because they transfer with the feat to the new husk/construct.)

Hexes & Spirit Abilities:
  • Channel - used w/ Construct Channel Brick
  • Healer's Touch
  • Life Sight
  • Powerful Smash
  • Strength of the Beast - level-improving strength enhancement
  • Thunderfoot - gives access to the overrun feat tree
  • Shapeshift - Transform into a shape that fits through tight spaces, but still retain construct traits
  • Aura of Purity - onboard filtration system.
    All of these abilities can be used in mecha-mode since none of them are spell-like abilities. Will take the Flight hex at 12th to become a hover-tank.

Poignant Equipment:
  • Bracelet-Braille - Can communicate by pointing to letters when made speechless during possessions
  • Heavy Warhorse(2) -to pull a cart full of mecha
  • Wand: Heightened Awareness - Combos with "Magic is Life" Trait
  • Safecamp wagon -Can't possess it, but can haul things that can be possessed. Also shrinks so Snuf's fleshy form can skate around with one knee in it.
  • Rowboat -Useful and also a backup thing to possess
  • Muleback Cords -Sometimes you got to carry everything
  • Fortifying Stone - Get multiples of this PFS only item. Benefits won't stack, but they will help to keep your "Project" intact, Snuf installs them in green, yellow and red order so that when they pop off, they double as condition alerts for passengers.
  • Lucky Horseshoe - Ways to buff a mecha are few and far between when you can't cast spells.
  • Chest of Keeping - Needed a safe place to stow the "corpse" while possessing something. Can also pack the armor into the chest when in "naked" mode.
  • Wand: Reinforce Armaments - Won't work on non-armor type "mechs"
  • TheProject - a large consecrated fire-forged vented non-humanoid full-plate armor - Doesn't count as a pre-posession magically-enhanced item, and has the added perk of when caught on fire, it redirects the heat the the bashing parts. Downside: Its very expensive.
  • One-way Window -. If somebody has to hide inside TheProject, now they have a way to see out without being seen.
  • Construct Channel Brick
  • Wand: Make Whole 3d6 -Sometimes you gotta outsource repairs to a caster
  • Boots of Escape - Before going into possession mode, give 'em to a little person. In a pinch, they can bamf themselves into TheProject.
  • Other items to enhance the ride and the "mecha" feel for passengers include: Magnets(10), Riding Kit(exotic, med.), Folding chair(small), Periscope(small)
  • Masterworked Tools - Also for Mecha-feel include: Drop Absorbers, Enhanced Targeting system, Externally-Mounted Retrieval/Ejection-Seat Arm Rail, Fireman-style Entry Guide Poles, Juke Handle, O.S. Bars, Faux-Fleshy Fixtures, Padded Interior, Peddle-driven Flywheels(x3), Play Lists, climber's Harness

    Things to buy still:

  • Mithral armor spikes - Not cheap, but it keeps the armor under 100 lbs, so it can still benefit from the fortifying stone. Will get Spiked Destroyer feat and dip avenger for "Nothing Can Stop Me" to get the most out of the spikes.
  • Stone of Good luck

Shadow Lodge

Did some research on Huge and Gargantuan creatures. My criteria on this was things that were roughly humanoid in shape. Some things were skipped because they didn't list a height, but otherwise this covers the 5 bestiaries.

Huge Creature Heights:

Giant, Jungle 17
Athach 18
Cherufe 18
Demon, Glabrezu 18
Giant, Cloud 18
Asura, Asurendra 19
Demon, Nalfeshnee 20
Giant, Taiga 20
Manitou 20
Merrow, Saltwater 20
Nightshade, Nightwalker 20
Oni, Void Yai 20
Papinijuwari 20
Saxra 20
Gegenees 21
Giant, Storm 21
Giant, Ocean 22
Giant, Moon 24
Giant, Sun 25
Cyclops, Great 30
Demon Lord, Kostchtchie 30
Gashadokuro 30
Star-Spawn of Cthulhu 30
treant 30
Troll, Jotund 30
Elemental, Huge 32
Elemental, Greater 36
Elemental, Elder 40

Average is 24'

Gargantuan creature heights:

Thriae Constructor 18
Argus 25
Turul 30
jinushigami 38
Akvan 40
Giant, Eclipse 40
Rune Giant 40
Clockwork Goliath 45
tzitzimitl 50
Colossus, Flesh 60
Colossus, Wood 60

Average is 40.5'

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