Pierce the Heavens! A Pathfinder's Guide to being a Mech Pilot!


Advice

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Oh. I thought the idea was to be inside the armor when you possessed it. Was that not the idea? Why come up with a different place for your body?

The Exchange

Lune wrote:
Oh. I thought the idea was to be inside the armor when you possessed it. Was that not the idea? Why come up with a different place for your body?

The pilot's corpse goes in the "trunk" (which is also inside of the armor). The reason I included it in my purchases was that I wanted something to represent a cockpit/stasis chamber, which the Chest of Keeping does surprisingly well.

Side note: Here's a picture of the minis I built. Its of Ms. Wheeler allowing a fellow patherfinder to climb into the upper torso of theProject.

@Karai Snillore, feel free to use it in your Guide.


Lune wrote:
Oh. I thought the idea was to be inside the armor when you possessed it. Was that not the idea? Why come up with a different place for your body?

Possess Object acts like both Magic Jar and Animate Object, AO says it can't be used on objects worn or carried by a creature. Because this build already has a ton of DM adjudication people have been giving this part a wide berth.

But it does beg the question: Can Animate Object be cast on an object carrying a creature? I think so.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Shadowkire wrote:

But it does beg the question: Can Animate Object be cast on an object carrying a creature? I think so.

I believe this is addressed in the Skull and Shackles Player's Guide. Specifically a ship cannot be the target of the spell unless the captain specifically allows it.

I could see that applying to other vehicles and things that "carry a creature."

Silver Crusade

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Shadowkire wrote:

Possess Object acts like both Magic Jar and Animate Object, AO says it can't be used on objects worn or carried by a creature. Because this build already has a ton of DM adjudication people have been giving this part a wide berth.

But it does beg the question: Can Animate Object be cast on an object carrying a creature? I think so.

I suspect, like Ravingdork, that AO was written exclusively to insure that it wasn't a veiled offensive spell that could be used to disarm opponents.

Either way, an easy way around all ambiguity is to have the AO load the trunk afterwards.

Shadow Lodge

thistledown wrote:

Did some research on Huge and Gargantuan creatures. My criteria on this was things that were roughly humanoid in shape. Some things were skipped because they didn't list a height, but otherwise this covers the 5 bestiaries.

** spoiler omitted **
Average is 24'

** spoiler omitted **
Average is 40.5'

Following up on this, I went through Wiki looking for real-world statue weights. Results were often incomplete (height but no weight, etc), but here's what I found. In general, the answer is to make the statue out of copper. (Ultimate Equipment says to use the stats for Bronze when using copper).

statues:

Diana (Saint-Gaudens) II _____ 14.5 ft _____ copper _____ 700 pounds
David (Michelangelo) _________ 16.8 ft _____ marble _____ 6+ tons
Golden Boy (Manitoba) _______ 17.1 ft _____ bronze _____ 1.82 tons
Diana (Saint-Gaudens) I ______ 18.0 ft _____ copper _____ 1800 pounds
Statue of Freedom ___________ 19.5 ft _____ bronze _____ 7.5 tons
Statue of Nelson Mandela I ____ 20.0 ft _____ bronze ______ 1.5 tons
Colossal Statue of Shapur I ____ 21.8 ft _____ limestone _____ several tons
Oregon Pioneer ______________ 22.8 ft _____ bronze _______ 8.5 tons
Forever Marilyn ______________ 25.7 ft _____ steel & aluminum _____ 17 tons
Miss Freedom _______________ 26.0 ft _____ copper _______ 1600 pounds
Hermann Heights Monument ___ 27.0 ft _____ iron& copper _____ 2.2 tons
Statue of Nelson Mandela II ____ 30.0 ft _____ bronze _____ 3.5 tons
Paul Bunyan (Bangor, Maine) ___ 30.6 ft _____ ? ________ 1.85 ton
Statue of Vasupujya __________ 31.0 ft _____ stone _____ 110 tons
Paro (Biggest Easter Island) ___ 32.5 ft _____ tuff _______ 82 tons
Kouros of Apollonas __________ 34.8 ft _____ marble _____ 88 tons
Statue of Ramesses II ________ 35.8 ft _____ red granite _____ 83 tons
Black Hawk Statue ___________ 48.0 ft _____ concete _______ 268 tons

Sovereign Court

Okay so I only glanced before. So now to finally get back to everyone.

Thistledown Holy Cow! Look at all these beautiful options you put in front of me. I feel like a kid in a candy shop! --I may or may not be updating the guide as we speak because you've provided some very, useful, very powerful options. The most beautiful being the super easy way to transport the mech! Those Needles! Those beautiful Needles!

Also I appreciate all the input. The average heights should go a long way, I'll actually go do some math, when I'm done taking in reading this darn thread again. . . I also need to start adding credits to you folks somewhere in this!

Oh! (If you haven't guessed I'm writing this out as I read post by post) That list of Statues is amazing! I'll have to incorporate it somewhere. It's a great representation that size and weight aren't always cohesive even with material. Why I really like using Masonry Stone (basically it's a mix of stone materials) and basing the construction of the statue off weight limits for size as opposed to height then calculating weight by figuring out the weight of the material.

Ravingdork After review I believe your correct. It doesn't grant additional attacks, but natural attacks are sort of their own thing. It makes sense, so the extra attacks form buying more slams should still stand.

Illeist
Thanks for the direct quote! Makes fixing up Barbarian far more useful. I am gonna poke around, I see where Squeeze is definitely not PFS legal outside the race but I do question if then, magic items creating the effect count in that or how they interact.

Plausible Pseudonym
That is a very good point you make about the mind and mind effecting spells. This is a newer book too, talking about a newer spell. So, way back when I started a good point to make is the difference between the Ultimate Magic spell, Possess Object and the Occult Adventures spell, Object Possession. Object Possession clearly works this way. Amazingly the spell we are focusing on is the Ultimate Adventures, which doesn't have the additional information on rather the construct can be affected by mind affects now.

While a DM or GM could rule that, it is text on two separate spells.

Wait wait, and I apologize I write as I read so I see there is a giant section clarifying how possession works. This is very helpful. You Opened some beautiful doors! BEAUTIFUL DOORS!

Get this! According to the text, the caster must be aware that your possessing the target, or the caster is considered to be targeting the possessed. It must make the active choice to target your mind. While this doesn't give you absolute immunity it does fall back on the fact most enemies will never know what you are or think, to check.

As a result, you, yes you, can affect yourself with mind affecting abilities. LIKE RAGE. Opening Barbarian to be applicable. Though it still means Kinetisict can't infinite burn... *Sigh*

Mech-Man!
Love your name.
You caught Lune with my answer before hand. That and I like to clarify the book does read that Constructs ARE in fact creatures. Just manufactured. Which helps for things like the Occultist's power.

You would maintain your PrC, as your only temporarily, not permanently, losing the qualifications to it. If you would somehow permanently lose it without having to repurchase access through feats you'd then lose it.

Snuf Wheeler
Ohhh! Beautiful! We should swap some stories at some point. I've only got to level 7 myself with Karai. I'll have to take some time to look over your recommendations. As I'm not 100% familiar with some of them.

Also I would LOVE to add it to the guide. So thank you! I'm going to have to find the perfect place to slap this picture in. Ha ha ha! Hell, can I get a quote from Snuff to plaster in?

Edit: ((for now I'm placing it on the Useful Equipment section. I think it makes sense with what you've tossed at me)) I'm also going to come back to your extensive list as I'm out of time. GOD after reading over your list I wish our toons could be in a game at the same time ha ha ha. It'd be HILARIOUS.

Shadowkire
I'm not so sure about the GM thing. Most of it is as close to absolute as I can get. There are some things that require rulings from your GM but I think people are assuming there are more then it appears.

However, I both agree, and think that if it is a problem... You can just possess the object then pick up your body. It doesn't say it dispels post gaining an occupant.

The Exchange

Karai Snillore wrote:

Ohhh! Beautiful! We should swap some stories at some point. I've only got to level 7 myself with Karai. I'll have to take some time to look over your recommendations. As I'm not 100% familiar with some of them.

Also I would LOVE to add it to the guide. So thank you! I'm going to have to find the perfect place to slap this picture in. Ha ha ha! Hell, can I get a quote from Snuff to plaster in?

Edit: ((for now I'm placing it on the Useful Equipment section. I think it makes sense with what you've tossed at me)) I'm also going to come back to your extensive list as I'm out of time. GOD after reading over your list I wish our toons could be in a game at the same time ha ha ha. It'd be HILARIOUS.

Here's your quote:

    "See! I told you, One day I'd possess a roller-bladey tanky." - Snuf Wheeler, armored courier for the Exchange

Maybe one day, Karai, we'll ally at a Con together.

Shadow Lodge

Snuf Wheeler wrote:
Karai Snillore wrote:

Ohhh! Beautiful! We should swap some stories at some point. I've only got to level 7 myself with Karai. I'll have to take some time to look over your recommendations. As I'm not 100% familiar with some of them.

Also I would LOVE to add it to the guide. So thank you! I'm going to have to find the perfect place to slap this picture in. Ha ha ha! Hell, can I get a quote from Snuff to plaster in?

Edit: ((for now I'm placing it on the Useful Equipment section. I think it makes sense with what you've tossed at me)) I'm also going to come back to your extensive list as I'm out of time. GOD after reading over your list I wish our toons could be in a game at the same time ha ha ha. It'd be HILARIOUS.

Here's your quote:

    "See! I told you, One day I'd possess a roller-bladey tanky." - Snuf Wheeler, armored courier for the Exchange

Maybe one day, Karai, we'll ally at a Con together.

Gencon?

The Exchange

thistledown wrote:
Gencon?

Possibly. I live near Sacramento.


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If you're worried about carting about your body on the statue, take a page from Inquisitor Karamazov and make the statue an armored throne with arms and legs.

Sovereign Court

I live near Boise, still Gen Con sounds like a great idea. I'd love to see a 'Mech' Team hit a game. Like, legit, it'd be the best run ever. Find a crazy GM willing to run, a group of players who have built into it, and just, roll out.

In Character the toons would have no idea the sneaky Venture Captains selected all of them for their mechs. So when we all start popping into our suits... BOOM, hilarious results follow.

Liberty's Edge

Karai Snillore wrote:

I live near Boise, still Gen Con sounds like a great idea. I'd love to see a 'Mech' Team hit a game. Like, legit, it'd be the best run ever. Find a crazy GM willing to run, a group of players who have built into it, and just, roll out.

In Character the toons would have no idea the sneaky Venture Captains selected all of them for their mechs. So when we all start popping into our suits... BOOM, hilarious results follow.

I'm moving back to the Boise area. I can definitely get behind tag teaming PFS characters to recreate Megas XLR.


you guys already know these things exist right?

You could use one for your normal transportation/mothership and break out the individual mechs in fights

Liberty's Edge

Very neat...is it PFS legal?

Shadow Lodge

Gravefiller613 wrote:
Very neat...is it PFS legal?

Surprisingly yes. But the 80,000 gp cost is a bit rough. Definitely want to be exchange faction if you're going for it.

Shadow Lodge

Though while you're looking at vehicles, you could just buy an Airship for only 50,000. Only carries 30 tons, so you still need to be economical about your statues. But makes for a great image right out of Gunparade March.

Liberty's Edge

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thistledown wrote:
Though while you're looking at vehicles, you could just buy an Airship for only 50,000. Only carries 30 tons, so you still need to be economical about your statues. But makes for a great image right out of Gunparade March.

I love the idea of pulling resources as a team of mech pilots. Or a team supporting one giant mech. It could be filled with win in PFS.

Sovereign Court

Agreed! I'd love to get a whole team going!
A lot of people here seem to shy away from the idea though, but I think if we get the right scenarios and team going, this could be some kind of legendary run!

I've also considered the idea that once you can possess Gargantuan creatures, just buying a Ship with PR and then using it to both transport the whole party and by passing travel time via giving it a burrow speed.

Shadow Lodge

We should probably keep the convention planning to another thread or PM's.

So, another cool thing to add: The Bloodrager archetype Id Rager. Instead of a bloodline, you get one of the emotional focuses from a Spiritualist's Phantom (anger, dedication, etc). Any time you (blood)rage, you get the phantom's powers.

Many of these powers tag things onto your Slams. Since some of our suits focus on slams, this synergises well. Like counting a size bigger, expanded crit range, or crowd control.

And hey, free skill focus (though not in UMD)

Liberty's Edge

I need to look into what features of the Inquistor are SU. As my toolbox build could make for a great pilot, or at the least support for one.

Shadow Lodge

If you decide to armor your mech, you should look into the Fitting enchantment. Put it onto your normal sized armor, and you can still use it as a giant mech. Just take it off between forms. This may even be cheaper than buying huge armor. (+2000gp)

A wand of Serren's Swift Girding will let you get it on and off faster.

An Armiger's Panoply is a faster but more expensive alternative.

Sovereign Court

Ok, I'm converting a GM blob over for this (and might convert another).

The first build is a paladin who puts armor onto the bronze suit, and uses a big sword. She plays with a lot of stereotypes.

Ionnia (still need a last name):

Half-orc runt from Taldor.
Human-Raised racial (I need skills)
Shaman's Apprentice racial (Endurance feat) (A human shaman of sorts?)

Trait: Denerously Curious
Trait: Deft Dodger

Deity: Torag!
Soverign Court Faction

Str: 14
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 11
Wis: 10
Cha: 17

Level 1: Fighter 1 (Titan Fighter)
Feat: Power Attack
Level 2: Paladin 1 (Divine Defender)
Level 3: Paladin 2 (Divine Defender)
Feat: Furious Focus
Level 4: Paladin 3 (Divine Defender)
Attribute: +1 CHA
Level 5: Bloodrager 1 (Steelblood, Id Rager)
Bloodline: Dedication
Feat: Iron Will
Level 6: Living Monolith 1
Feat: Toughness (free from class)
Level 7: Paladin 4 (Divine Defender)
Variant Channeling: Forge
Feat: Vital Strike
Level 8: Living Monolith 2
Attribute: +1 INT
Level 9: ?
Feat: Furious Finish
Level 10: ?
Level 11: ?
Feat: ?

The suit: Iron & Copper, about 2 tons. Winged humanoid, set up for swords, armor, flight, and burrowing (though I'll probably never use the flight, given the -19 to skill checks for it)

normal weapon: mstwk Large greatsword
Suit weapon: +1 adamantine Gargantuan longsword, maybe with Impact. I'd love to add Truthful to it, so I can ignore all those pesky things that make hits not hit. But it's pretty expensive. Might have to settle for Heartseeker.

Armor: +1 full plate, looking at a few ideas. Required is Fitting so that I can use the armor for both sizes.
Spell Storing is always fun, though my swift actions are already busy.
Crusading lets me use my lay on hands for more AC
Champion gives me +2 AC vs my smite target. Though a smite target will probably only survive if I miss.

Other items:
Construct channel brick (give to healer)
Corset of the Vishkanya (squeeze)
Needles of Fleshgraving (carry statue)
Ring of Sundering metals (bypass cold iron & silver DR)
wand of Serren's Swift Girding (get armor on faster)

Out of suit, is a mediocre paladin of 14 str.
In the suit, is a serious heavy hitter. Starts off with a gargantuan greatsword. Living monolith gives me 3 (SU!) enlarge persons a day, that still work on the suit. So now I'm gargantuan with a colossal sword. Dedication bloodrage counts me as a size bigger against anyone who hits me. Which might stack with Impact on the weapon, taking me all the way up to 16d6 damage. Vital strike adds 16d6 again. Furious Finish means I maximize the damage instead of rolling. Best case I think I'm at 237 damage per swing.

In theory, constructs are immune to fatigue. So ending the bloodrage by Furious Finish gives fatigue, but it immediately goes away (much controversy on this, I know). So I can rage and do it again next turn.


Yup, foppish Taldan half-orc runt that follows Torag and protects Osirion tombs in a giant mech. Nothing unusual there.

Shadow Lodge

Oh, I also found a silly and cheap way to make the suit itself. Mock Armor from ultimate equipment cost 90 gold, but looks like metal full plate. They have the flag that their weight is affected by size (hero lab fails to see this) but they do not adjust their cost by size (as they are Gear, not armor).

So, extrapolating the weight upwards instead of downwards, you can have a fake suit of armor for a huge creature that costs 90 gold and weighs 160 lbs. Animate that.

The Exchange

Gravefiller613 wrote:
Very neat...is it PFS legal?

I've kept my build as such.

But that means that there are additional loopholes one must jump through:

  • The large non-humanoid armor wes well below the 100-pound max weight restriction of the fortifying stones for them to still function (made even lighter by including armor vents). Later I will add armor spikes to the armor. Some GMs might argue that the spikes are part of the armor for weight restrictions. Doesn't matter; the total weight will still be in compliance.

  • Even though Snuf could possess something of huge size, there is a PFS restriction that you can't buy weapons/armor larger than Large (unless it shows up on a chronicle sheet). There might be other items that I have yet to come across, that could be purchased and possessed.

  • The shaman's possession ability (by way of the spells it is based on) doesn't allow for the possession of something that is already magically enhanced.) Thankfully, the armor's consecrated and special materials don't count as such so pick your favorite metal as well.

  • Playing up to 10th level before being able to possess something means that there is an awfully-long time where you are exclusively a supporting character. Then again, you can always take Ionnia's GM-blob approach.
I've tried to build this character to enhance the gaming experience of others. Unfortunately, I've encountered very few small PCs who can ride inside (i.e. 2, both times halflings, once was a pregen).

Shadow Lodge

Snuf Wheeler wrote:

  • Even though Snuf could possess something of huge size, there is a PFS restriction that you can't buy weapons/armor larger than Large (unless it shows up on a chronicle sheet). There might be other items that I have yet to come across, that could be purchased and possessed.
  • I've been looking into this part, and I'm not sure I agree anymore. I certainly used to think this was the case, but by the wording I now think it just means they are not on the "always available" list. Once you have the fame for an item of their cost, I think you can buy bigger things.

    Edit: Elaborating with rules support. The relevant section is under "Always Available Items", starting on page 19. It lists that you may always purchase basic armor, gear, items, and weapons... including items for Small and Large characters.
    After the bullet-ed list, it notes that beyond such gear you must purchase from Chronicles or using Fame.

    That takes us over to Additional Resources. Ultimate Equipment limits firearms and some materials, but lists everything else in Chapter 1 (weapons and armor) as legal for play. This includes the section on "Armor for Unusual Creatures". So, Huge armor is certainly allowed.

    Shadow Lodge

    Weapons are a bit less clear, as it just says "A Large version costs twice the listed price".

    While I can't point to a place that says "Huge swords are allowed" I think they'd also fall under fame purchases.

    Price-wise, I know Hero Lab just continues doubling the cost for each size category. But Hero Lab isn't a rules source, so if someone can point me to a rule that states this, I'd appreciate it.

    The Exchange

    And is there also a legal source on how you can buy a huge copper statue or a huge musket (in PFSociety play), too?

    Shadow Lodge

    You can not buy a huge musket right off in PFS. You will need to buy a medium one, then get in the suit and apply Iron Lord's Transforming Slivers twice.

    But then you should be fine.

    The statue is still a bit tricky to me too. The Mock Armor seems a good option, as I listed above. You might also look at a huge Acrobat's Pillar, Sentry Mannequin, or the Monster Dummy. Or a strange looking wagon.

    There's also a taxidermy kit, so maybe you have a stuffed critter that you're animating.

    The Exchange

    PFS Additional resources wrote:
    Ultimate Combat - Equipment: No Large or larger firearm is available for purchase...

    I thought I read that someplace. Sorry.

    And I haven't heard of the other items, so you may want to check the Additional resources page (linked above) to make sure they are okay'd.

    Shadow Lodge

    Everything I listed is legal. Aside from the Slivers it's all mundane equipment. Piller is Melee Tactics Toolbox. Mock Armor and Sentry Mannequin are ultimate equipment. Monster Dummy and Taxidermy tools are Monster Hunter's Handbook. Legal wagons are in Ultimate Combat.

    The Slivers are Inner Sea Gods. And yeah, you can't purchase a large firearm. Doesn't mean you can't have one, simply not available in stores.


    The nice thing is that after the latest episode of Little Witch Academia cool mechas piloted with magic are a legitimate thematic choice

    The Exchange

    thistledown wrote:

    Everything I listed is legal. Aside from the Slivers it's all mundane equipment. Piller is Melee Tactics Toolbox. Mock Armor and Sentry Mannequin are ultimate equipment. Monster Dummy and Taxidermy tools are Monster Hunter's Handbook. Legal wagons are in Ultimate Combat.

    The Slivers are Inner Sea Gods. And yeah, you can't purchase a large firearm. Doesn't mean you can't have one, simply not available in stores.

    Thanks for checking into the other stuff. Note that being mundane isn't what restricts an item; It's only whether the item is banned or not. For instance, a 'double hackbut' is a mundane firearm, but its banned. I didn't expect your pretty cool list of suggestions to be banned, but I've been wrong about other things before.

    On another topic, I'm not sure I follow you on the 'large or larger firearms' work-around. Aside from finding it on a chronicle sheet, which I have yet to see, If you can't buy them and crafting is banned in PFS, then how does one get a large musket in Society Play?

    Shadow Lodge

    Worked this through a few years ago. Ended up dropping the firearms part as it was pointed out that the FAQ prevents medium people from using large guns even if they can get them. But for a big creature or a non-firearm, it works fine. Here's the thread where we hashed it out. (Before it got derailed on mithral armor prices)

    Shadow Lodge

    The mundane items part was because you said you hadn't heard of them - to help you locate them.

    Sovereign Court

    That is a lot of interesting items, Thistledown. I'll have to go over them myself, and add them to the guide when I'm more free today. I do have to say I like the fake armor. It still really serves our purpose.

    Oh! Oh! Ionnia! I like what you got going. Though seriously I'm starting to think we need like a 'team' thing. Like our own pretend faction we can RP up, working inside the other factions. Still I love the theme of your toon, should make the mech 'sarcophagus' like.

    Though not sure rather I wanna set that up.

    Snuff's mech is still one of the better designed it seems. I like to think of it as a tank simply cause of how crazy you can just add health and hardness for 1000 gold an upgrade. sheesh.

    The Exchange

    On other topics, Brigh, Nethys, and Torag each have perks as deities befitting mechs.

    And a Battle Host's Panopoloy Bond might also be an approach for somebody. You get a free suit of armor that never breaks and it comes back in mint condition if you resurrect. Implements like this one don't start out as magical. I don't see why you can't bond to a suit of armor meant for somebody larger than you to wear. It too can benefit from Enhance armaments.

    @Thisledown, I like the mock armor, the monster dummy and the sentry mannequin. All can be protected with the Fortifying stones and allow for more creative application of the construction points than my creation.

    Another approach somebody could try is to delegate the "main gun's" responsibility to two small PC/NPCs in an Artillery Team riding in or on the mech.

    A mobile gunner's platform? Go Team Mecha!

    Shadow Lodge

    Interesting. There's more options for Animated Objects in Carrion Crown 1: Haunting of Harrowstone. I don't think they're legal for PFS, but you might be able to argue it. The Additional Resources entry is a bit short and vague.

    Notably there's abilities with negative costs, freeing up more points for better things.

    There's also options for animated objects in Ultimate Magic, but they are in chapter 2 and thus explicitly disallowed.

    And one of the Iron Gods books has Immobile. Probably not PFS legal, and since it means you can't move around probably not something you want, but it does free up 1 build point.


    I feel like there needs to be some way to make this with a Vigilante, for that full Power Rangers experience.

    Looking over some of the talents, it looks like Avenger would be the better choice. If you build your mech out of a suit of huge Full Plate, you can use the gauntlets on the armor instead of needing to buy slam. That would let us take Fist of the Gauntlet for half level to damage, if nothing else, and it'd work out of your mech as well. Plus they get UMD as a class skill.

    There's probably more that can be done with this but that's all that jumps out at me after a quick skim through.

    Liberty's Edge

    Unless my understanding is wrong. Aren't Hex's Supernatural abilities. Perhaps I missed an errata.

    I'm thinking this would open up a few options with Hexcrafter Magus or maybe Bonded Witch.

    The Exchange

    Gravefiller613 wrote:
    Unless my understanding is wrong. Aren't Hex's Supernatural abilities. Perhaps I missed an errata.

    Hexes are supernatural (Su) abilities, but that is exactly the point of choosing them or other magic abilities. While possessing an object, one can no longer speak or cast "spells" , which would also affect spell-like abilities (Sp) And yet, (Su)-powers and exceptional (Ex) abilities are not impacted unless they are directly tied to your original form, like the low-light vision inherent in some base-species would be..

    ProximaC wrote:
    I feel like there needs to be some way to make this with a Vigilante, for that full Power Rangers experience.

    I feel that way too. I plan to dip avenger for the "Nothing can Stop Me (Ex)" and the "Assault Training (Ex)" talent/abilities and the martial weapon proficiencies. It also, fits the "Tank" feeling I aspire to, along with the "Cut Your Losses" feat which I will take at 17th level. Yep I plan to push this character all the way to 20th level.

    "Please, drive on thru."


    Snuf Wheeler wrote:
    Gravefiller613 wrote:
    Unless my understanding is wrong. Aren't Hex's Supernatural abilities. Perhaps I missed an errata.

    Hexes are supernatural (Su) abilities, but that is exactly the point of choosing them or other magic abilities. While possessing an object, one can no longer speak or cast "spells" , which would also affect spell-like abilities (Sp) And yet, (Su)-powers and exceptional (Ex) abilities are not impacted unless they are directly tied to your original form, like the low-light vision inherent in some base-species would be..

    ProximaC wrote:
    I feel like there needs to be some way to make this with a Vigilante, for that full Power Rangers experience.

    I feel that way too. I plan to dip avenger for the "Nothing can Stop Me (Ex)" and the "Assault Training (Ex)" talent/abilities and the martial weapon proficiencies. It also, fits the "Tank" feeling I aspire to, along with the "Cut Your Losses" feat which I will take at 17th level. Yep I plan to push this character all the way to 20th level.

    "Please, drive on thru."

    Spell-like abilities do not have somatic or verbal components so you should be able to use them

    The Exchange

    Entryhazard wrote:
    Spell-like abilities do not have somatic or verbal components so you should be able to use them
    PRD wrote:
    A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.

    The emphasis is mine. Since GMs in the past have considered speaking or casting to be show-stoppers to using SLAs, I've decided to avoid using them entirely for this build. Also, (while possessing an object) this is especially true when the SLA's description reads "this works just like the spell, ____". I've overlooked some Su-powers too, if their descriptions conflicted with one of these two factors. YMMV.

    The question you have to ask is "Will my mech come to a screeching halt because the GM determined I can't use this SLAs while possessing an object?". If your answer is 'meh' and being able to occasionally get that combo off is good enough, then go for it.

    Dark Archive

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    thistledown wrote:

    Following up on this, I went through Wiki looking for real-world statue weights. Results were often incomplete (height but no weight, etc), but here's what I found. In general, the answer is to make the statue out of copper. (Ultimate Equipment says to use the stats for Bronze when using copper).

    ** spoiler omitted **

    An old Dragon article called 'How Heavy is my Giant?' might offer some useful information here. (I used it in all sorts of Villains & Vigilantes / superhero RPGs when making super-characters who turned into ice or stone or steel.)

    Basically, a cubic foot of 'person' weighs about 46-47 lbs, while a cubic foot of copper weighs about 560 lbs. (And you can use square-cube law to try and figure out how much to multiply the final number by. If it's 9 ft. tall, that's about 1.5x height, and 3.4x weight, IIRC. If it's 12 ft. tall, that's about 2x height and 8x weight. Yet another thing I had to keep track of for superhero games, since size changing was not an uncommon power...)


    Snuf Wheeler wrote:
    Entryhazard wrote:
    Spell-like abilities do not have somatic or verbal components so you should be able to use them
    PRD wrote:
    A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.

    The emphasis is mine. Since GMs in the past have considered speaking or casting to be show-stoppers to using SLAs, I've decided to avoid using them entirely for this build. Also, (while possessing an object) this is especially true when the SLA's description reads "this works just like the spell, ____". I've overlooked some Su-powers too, if their descriptions conflicted with one of these two factors. YMMV.

    The question you have to ask is "Will my mech come to a screeching halt because the GM determined I can't use this SLAs while possessing an object?". If your answer is 'meh' and being able to occasionally get that combo off is good enough, then go for it.

    From the same rules:

    PRD wrote:
    A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally.

    Which means a SLA do not require to speak a word or any movement

    While we're at it, it also comes to minde that all the spells without verbal and maybe somatic components are usable, so the whole can of Psychic Magic is also open

    The Exchange

    Entryhazard wrote:
    PRD wrote:
    A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally.

    Which means a SLA do not require to speak a word or any movement

    While we're at it, it also comes to minde that all the spells without verbal and maybe somatic components are usable, so the whole can of Psychic Magic is also open

    That is true, in general. But what I am recommending is to keep an eye on the nuance of each ability and its specific wording. consider that many (Sp) assume that you an speak. For instance, here is a hex:

    Steal Voice (Su):
    (Dirty Tactics Toolbox pg. 23): (Tiefling Only) The witch can steal the voice of one creature within 30 feet, causing it to lose, for a number of rounds equal to the witch’s Intelligence bonus, all abilities that rely on speech, including talking, casting spells with verbal components, and using auditory bardic performances. A successful Will saving throw negates this effect. If this hex is used upon a willing target, the duration lasts for a number of hours equal to the witch’s Intelligence bonus. Additionally, the witch can change her voice to match that of any creature whose voice she has stolen with this hex, as per vocal alteration (Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 248).

    You don't gain the ability to speak if possess object keeps you from speaking or casting spells.

    Even some Supernatural abilities will be squashed. Think about Cackle and Chant.

    Cackle (Su):
    (Advanced Player's Guide pg. 66): A witch can cackle madly as a move action. Any creature that is within 30 feet that is under the effects of an agony hex, charm hex, evil eye hex, fortune hex, or misfortune hex caused by the witch has the duration of that hex extended by 1 round.

    A GM could say (and has said) that if you can't speak, then you can't cackle or chant, because that requires vocal cords. This is why I toss a yellow flag that permissions may vary.

    But I can see I'm not being clear on the restrictions of one Mecha-related spell:

      Possess Object - This spell functions as magic jar, except you transfer your mind to a single object, animating it as if using animate objects, except your mind controls the object as if it were your own body. You cannot speak or cast spells while possessing the object. Because your original body is effectively dead while under the effect of this spell, this temporarily suspends disease, poisons, and other afflictions affecting you.

    My point being, it doesn't matter if it has components, somatic or verbal components; the spell just can't be cast in any way. And that both the not-casting and not-speaking parts combined put a kibosh on a lot of stuff. So, shop carefully.

    Shadow Lodge

    Set wrote:
    thistledown wrote:

    Following up on this, I went through Wiki looking for real-world statue weights. Results were often incomplete (height but no weight, etc), but here's what I found. In general, the answer is to make the statue out of copper. (Ultimate Equipment says to use the stats for Bronze when using copper).

    ** spoiler omitted **

    An old Dragon article called 'How Heavy is my Giant?' might offer some useful information here. (I used it in all sorts of Villains & Vigilantes / superhero RPGs when making super-characters who turned into ice or stone or steel.)

    Basically, a cubic foot of 'person' weighs about 46-47 lbs, while a cubic foot of copper weighs about 560 lbs. (And you can use square-cube law to try and figure out how much to multiply the final number by. If it's 9 ft. tall, that's about 1.5x height, and 3.4x weight, IIRC. If it's 12 ft. tall, that's about 2x height and 8x weight. Yet another thing I had to keep track of for superhero games, since size changing was not an uncommon power...)

    Interesting read. I don't think the method for non-flesh giants works in our case though, as it assumes a solid body of a given volume. Big statues are generally a (relatively) thin skin over a hollow frame, so the used volume of a material would be much less.

    The Giants in Bestiary 1 seem to track pretty well with the article though.

    Shadow Lodge

    Legacy of the First World has something that will be interesting for these builds - a monk archetype that's charisma based instead of wisdom based. Called Nornkith.


    Good to have some free "mech piloting" stuff that'll sorta work in a PFS situation out there. ;)

    Liberty's Edge

    I'm thinking the Warlock Vigilante or Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue will be my first PFS mech Pilot attempts. I'll be back in Boise in about a week.

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