Since you are technically using your telekinetic blast when you are using your Foe Throw wild talent, does it still have the same weight restrictions?
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I would like an ability that allows them to fight with a melee weapon from a distance(full attack action as well) kind of like the dancing weapon property.
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I think full BAB and d10, or even d12 hit dice is ideal for this class. If the focus is going to be on ranged attacks with the possibility of moving into melee with various talents, then it needs to be beefy and relevant.
I think strength should have something it can do for this class, even in a tertiary manner. Right now I see no reason to have a positive strength, and I know most builds posted have dumped it into the ground. If telekinetic blade was an inherent option that could then be upgraded with talents, then we'd see two different kinds of kineticist from level 1. If the non-touch blasts could benefit from strength as well as constitution, we'd have a reason to not dump it into the ground alongside Weapon Finesse.
How does force ward (aether kinetic defense) interact with burn damage?
Does it absorb the nonlethal damage you take from burn?
One thought:
I think the Telekineticist should be better than any other class at remotely moving objects from level 1. The limit on weight could be increased to 10 or 20 lbs./2 levels. This would make a lot of non-combat difference, showing true telekinesis from the start (also gaining light touch freely at level 1).
Likewise, the other specialties should be able to move similar volumes/weights of their native materials in a non-combat way for free.
wow, already a really long thread, so I may have missed an answer to this, but about the telekinetic blast, does it have to throw a specific item, or can you gather loose debris from around you into a rough sphereoid to launch or what? the wording seems kinda loose here, at least to me
Thanks for the feedback everyone! Keep it coming, and gather as much playtest data as you can. Together, we'll make the kineticist even better!
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I personally could care less about all of the anime influence on the class, if I ever use it, it will be for a TK superhero/villain type, such as Sylar from Heroes (or many others). So for me it's much more a TK type ability.Three things:
1) If you "could care less", that means you do care some. You probably meant you couldn't care less.2) Avatar is an American show, created by a couple of dudes named Michael and Brian. No relation to anime whatsoever.
3) Yes, outside of deliberate Avatar references (which would seem inappropriate in an unaffiliated product), puppet-stuff seems to more naturally fit into TK.
Touche on correcting my grammar. Though since I have a negative amount of caring towards the anime/avatar/benderness (I would wholeheartedly support references to Bender from Futurama though) of the class, I technically could care less by actually disliking it more.
As for Avatar being American, that may be true, but in my perception it's anime regardless (plus aren't there two Avatars out there, one is Japanese?), and perception is reality in this case.
Glad we agree that puppetry should be a good fit for TK though :)
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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As for Avatar being American, that may be true, but in my perception it's anime regardless (plus aren't there two Avatars out there, one is Japanese?), and perception is reality in this case.
That's okay, in my perception it's basically Tolkien.
I'm surprised I haven't seen comment on the HUGE utility function of Spark of Life. I remember the 3.5 reserve feat that did something similar, and it was awesome.
No need to bring goats into your dungeons! Let your mindless elemental go forth and activate ALL THE TRAPS!
Need to cause a little bit of chaos? Silently and mentally control your elemental and create a distraction with it!
Many other uses, involving both burn and no burn.
I think the DC for slick should be 21, not 27. It's a 1st-level power, so 11 + Con modifier unless you have something else I'm missing.
A psychic blast that forces targets away from you or frees you from a grapple would be cool. Some other crowd control abilities that allows you to move target(s) willing or unwilling.
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I'll point out again that all of these builds show strength and charisma at 7. There are no rewards for a kineticist having a strength or charisma score that hasn't been dumped into the ground, especially because UMD is such an easy skill to run off Intelligence instead.
If you give kinetic blade automatically and allow strength to impact its damage, we may see some bruiser kineticists come out to play.
Mark what's your opinion on having 2 basic blasts for each element? Some of the elements currently have a touch and regular type of blast, so rounding out Aether, Fire, and Earth to have 2 might be cool.
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Why on earth can't the burn damage be healed with spells and abilities? What was the reasoning behind that decision? What's wrong with expending resources to get a little more work out of one's work day?
Just seems like a needless restriction to me.
Consider the defense talents like flesh of stone.I'm confused by the burn entry for wild talents. The burn ability says "Some of her wild talents offer her the option to accept burn in exchange for a greater effect", but all of the wild talents I've read so far list a burn amount, but don't describe a greater effect if you accept burn.
Is it intended that you have to accept burn to use the wild talent at all, and the description of the wild talent is the greater effect? Or is burn supposed to enhance the wild talent, similar to augmenting a mythic spell?
I was also confused by this. Maybe it needs to be worded different. It makes you think that the main point of burn is to cause a greater effect of a wild talent, not use a wild talent.
This was messing with me too. I read through the class THREE TIMES and was still terribly confused. Finding this forum thread helped a little, but I still have a lot of questions.
Since you are technically using your telekinetic blast when you are using your Foe Throw wild talent, does it still have the same weight restrictions?
Wouldn't doing that render Foe Throw nearly useless?
Soo, I really want to make a Fire Kineticist, so I am only listing all these potential problems with the class out of love ;)
This class seems to have a rather large number of drawbacks compared to the amount of damage it can put out. For example, a Fire Kineticist's main upside is that it gets unlimited touch attacks which do fire damage. However, they are affected by fire resistance/immunity, spell resistance, burn limitations, and medium BAB. They also need to spend at least four feats to be reliably effective: point black shot, precise shot, and two spell penetration feats.
On the other hand a standard archer build, while admittedly overpowered, covers the same role as a Kineticist while having higher damage (more attacks per round and magic item boosts), more reliable damage (ignores immunities/DR), likely higher skills per level (ranger), and a longer range without any investment. An archer needs a lot of feats too, but their classes usually hand these feats to them.
I'm not saying that the Kineticist needs to be as crazy as an archer, but it probably needs ways to overcome its drawbacks and more tricks that distingush it from other ranged damage classes.
At least both archers and Kineticists can't really damage swarms ;)
Mark what's your opinion on having 2 basic blasts for each element? Some of the elements currently have a touch and regular type of blast, so rounding out Aether, Fire, and Earth to have 2 might be cool.
I'm considering it, but I also think that having an element with just energy and an element with just matter is useful too, from a design perspective. Certainly earth and fire at least should expect a degradation in other areas were they to receive the other sort of basic blast, but given that the kineticist could have also chosen Expanded Element for a different element entirely at that point, it wouldn't necessarily have to be a big one. If I go that route, I would expect those new blasts to, while not necessarily stunted in damage from the default, have extremely few infusion options to represent the element's lack of focus in that type of attack.
Mark what's your opinion on having 2 basic blasts for each element? Some of the elements currently have a touch and regular type of blast, so rounding out Aether, Fire, and Earth to have 2 might be cool.I'm considering it, but I also think that having an element with just energy and an element with just matter is useful too, from a design perspective. Certainly earth and fire at least should expect a degradation in other areas were they to receive the other sort of basic blast, but given that the kineticist could have also chosen Expanded Element for a different element entirely at that point, it wouldn't necessarily have to be a big one. If I go that route, I would expect those new blasts to, while not necessarily stunted in damage from the default, have extremely few infusion options to represent the element's lack of focus in that type of attack.
Speaking of expanded element, what is your opinion on dual element users?
I would love to have a choice in what stat governs burn, kinetic attack rolls, DCs, etc. and not just physical stats.
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I couldn't be happier with the timing of the release on this. I have one more level to run in Emerald Spire then my turn is over and I will squeek in the one session played requirement to keep going. This class looks really cool. However, I am a little disappointed with the lack of comparisons to Jedi Consulars with the Aether element. Get me a Force Choke ability (non-lethal to leave them staggered for a round spending burn to deal lethal and actually make them not breath) and this book is worth it for a chance to play a mix of Obi-wan and Vader alone.
Mark what's your opinion on having 2 basic blasts for each element? Some of the elements currently have a touch and regular type of blast, so rounding out Aether, Fire, and Earth to have 2 might be cool.I'm considering it, but I also think that having an element with just energy and an element with just matter is useful too, from a design perspective. Certainly earth and fire at least should expect a degradation in other areas were they to receive the other sort of basic blast, but given that the kineticist could have also chosen Expanded Element for a different element entirely at that point, it wouldn't necessarily have to be a big one. If I go that route, I would expect those new blasts to, while not necessarily stunted in damage from the default, have extremely few infusion options to represent the element's lack of focus in that type of attack.
If I were to make basic blasts for Fire and Earth of the other variety it would be an explosion for Fire (Small scale, like the shockwave on a grenade) and probably acid for Earth.
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Another option might be to give the kineticist his choice of which physical stat governs his DCs and max burn total. Something would have to be done to not make Dexterity ungodly powerful, but I would love to see a strength-based kineticist using raw power to command the earth to rise up.
A certain muscle-headed wrestler earth-benders came to mind.
As a quick note, Kenny's blasts ignore SR.
As I said before, that bit on the burn mechanic can be fixed. If they want to keep it as a per day thing, they need to consider using Burn as the total of non-lethal damage you keep throughout the day. I don't mind the idea of the 1 point per hit die of non-lethal damage taken for using Burn, but at higher levels it should have some amount that is recoverable.
Even when we calculate the move action to reduce burn and the other class features that turn it down, we still run the risk of a 15 minute day. Pathfinder has done a lot to remove that problem from the 3.5 era, so we need to try to keep that from returning.
As a quick note, Kenny's blasts ignore SR.I didn't see that stated anywhere in the doc and I don't (didn't) want to assume that. That will help the double attack roll requirement.
It's in the description of telekinetic blast.
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I would welcome some ability to deal with swarms even at the lower levels, maybe an ability that lowers single target damage, and exchanges it for a cone.
I am clearly in the 4+Int skill point block.
A water based Kineticist, seems like a pretty nice dip for a number of classes, a permanent +4 armor bonus (+6 with burn) seems pretty nice, and unlimited touch attack and the potential to grab a little bit of healing.
Actually the PFS playtest prevents this for some crazy reason, but I am seeing a lot of characters going for the heaviest armor available. A dip into Fighter or another class would supply the armor proficiency, grant martial weapon proficiency and a bonus feat to get the mandatory Precise Shot and Point Blank shot.
Of course a two level dip into Hunter, would provide among other benefits precise shot.
Kenny the Kineticist
Arcane Strike (3rd)
We can apply Arcane Strike to telekinetic blast? Is it considered a weapon?
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I think the limitations of the burn mechanic are appropriate and I don't see any need to increase it across the board. Feats like Toughness provide more casting power. I think learning to manage your resources is appropriate to the class. Get a ring of sustenance and teach our group to take 2 hour naps. ;)
If anything is done to alter it, I think it should be something specifically catered to the full day viability of the class and not something that gives it more burn to spend in general. Something like healing an amount of burn damage equal to your class level every hour. That would only give back 1 point of burn per hour so might be appropriate.
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Oh nearly forgot, since this class is usually limited to one attack per round, effects like mirror image can really stop it dead in its tracks.
And could be maybe get some dispel ability?
Dispel doesn't really fit. Since the class uses spell-like abilities it can't be countered itself, so giving it the ability to counterspell would just seem off.
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I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but I just noticed that the Plasma composite blast does Fire and Bludgeoning damage. This is generally fine, but it has been established in the technology materials that in pathfinder Plasma is half fire and half electricity. So I think either a name change or an element swap might go well there.
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Deflect Arrow... Missile Shield... oh wow....Oh nearly forgot, since this class is usually limited to one attack per round, effects like mirror image can really stop it dead in its tracks.
And could be maybe get some dispel ability?
I think you would need Ray Shield to get a ranged touch negated, but there are still a lot of things that shut down ranged attacks, and I agree that earlier AoE options are a pretty good idea.
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That reminds me, I had posted this in another thread but maybe it'll get Mark's attention here:
The following is under Kineticist:
Wild talents are typically spell-like abilities.
All wild talents have a required kineticist level, and most
have an effective spell level. However, blast and defense wild
talents are always considered to be a spell of a level equal
to half the kineticist’s level (maximum 9th level at level 18).
A kineticist cannot normally select blast or defense wild
talents when she gains a new wild talent.
Can typically be changed to "Are spell-like abilities unless otherwise stated"?
Also, the way it's worded it looks like Blast and Defense wild talents are considered to be spells and not spell-like abilities. I don't think that was the intention, correct?
(I know that is just semantics but it matters on a "game defining terms" level. Should it instead say something like "Blase and defense talents are always considered to be spell-like abilities with an effective spell level equal to..."?)
Oh nearly forgot, since this class is usually limited to one attack per round, effects like mirror image can really stop it dead in its tracks.
And could be maybe get some dispel ability?
Dispel doesn't really fit. Since the class uses spell-like abilities it can't be countered itself, so giving it the ability to counterspell would just seem off.
True, but I think an ability to extinguish other or opposite elements would be a good idea. Quenching fire or eroding earth or drying water would be appropriate. Maybe just a universal Extinguish talent that can be fluffed for any of the elements.
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True, but I think an ability to extinguish other or opposite elements would be a good idea. Quenching fire or eroding earth or drying water would be appropriate. Maybe just a universal Extinguish talent that can be fluffed for any of the elements.
I really like that idea. I've seen a large number of games where it's necessary to put out fires quickly and you'd think a hydrokineticist would be able to do such things easily.