Vhalhisstre Vexidyre

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Goblin Squad Member. Organized Play Member. 698 posts (1,004 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Organized Play character. 10 aliases.


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I don't feel like somebody should EVER be hired simply based on the fact they are a minority - that in itself is inequality. As a gay male, I have it pretty loud and proud on my resume that I identify as such and have totally gotten hired based on *just that fact*... Which is totally wrong.

I respect a LOT of the comments that Paizo has made above, talking about including as many people as possible at the lowest levels (playing, GMing) to help inspire a passion that will potentially one day lead them to applying for a job.

If your middle-class straight cis (hate this word) white male applies for a job and is the best person qualified... Likely he is going to get the job.

Paizo is doing right by me, by creating equal opportunity for everybody and anybody to advance in the industry.

This feels very Dragon Ball Z kamehameha to me, I love it. Where they spend 6 episodes gathering energy from everything around them to just nuke whoever they are fighting that story arc..

But really, this could be useful.

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Something I'd add to most "bender" characters is Kinetic Blade, especially fire types. They tend to do a lot of hand-to-hand that mix in short range blasts. Probably easiest way to represent that. You also took PBS but no Precise Shot.. That -4 is a huge kicker.

Pure Flame is also not worth it in the least. Just take Spell Pen if you are worried about SR. 4 burn is not worth it! Take Explosion instead, and that definitely suits Azula better.

I'd also drop Extreme Range, take Kinetic Form or Ride the Blast instead.

Trail of Flames only activates on Withdraw or Run, two things Azula would never do!

A pretty good representation overall, though.

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Some baseline theory crafting makes me think this class needs some big buffs.

Relying on Feel the Burn to keep your attack on-par with a Full BAB class totally destroys the character. Average HP, unmodified by Con or other feats and abilities, subtracting max Burn for FtB:

Level 1: 8
6: 24.5
10: 18.5
16: -4.5
20: -26.5

Just some small numbers to point out that Burn should NOT be required to keep the Kineticist on par with the attack levels of other classes.

With the way that the class is written as is, there's no real clear Path or many abilities that will help out the ranged (default) abilities for the Kineticist.

This isn't a huge issue, I understand, but with a whole AP being written for Mythic rules (WotR), it puts a huge restriction on what decent builds will be.

The class is built around their ranged ability, or being able to use their blast as part of a melee attack. This precludes any path abilities that affect ranged attacks from benefiting the kineticist, while all the melee path abilities will be usable.

I'm not really sure if anybody else has some ideas for how to make a mythic kineticist work as-written, but I'd love to start tossing some ideas around. Or ideas on how to slightly modify the class as-is?

Maybe adding a line like "any ability that affects ranged attacks can use or modify Kinetic Blast as well"? Something that would allow the use of the blast with the mythic path abilities that read "make a ranged attack" bla bla.

I'm surprised I haven't seen comment on the HUGE utility function of Spark of Life. I remember the 3.5 reserve feat that did something similar, and it was awesome.

No need to bring goats into your dungeons! Let your mindless elemental go forth and activate ALL THE TRAPS!

Need to cause a little bit of chaos? Silently and mentally control your elemental and create a distraction with it!

Many other uses, involving both burn and no burn.

Drejk wrote:
dunebugg wrote:


- At 17th level, you actually have a cap of 5 burn/round, with a hard cap of 6 burn/round at 18th. The example of combining Quicken + Twin, using 7 burn, is not achievable unless there are feats/other that increases burn/round cap, or you select one of the 2...
Burn ability include option of spending one move action to reduce burn of kinetic blast by 1. So practically you can spend a move and a swift action to fire two kinetic blasts at 18th level and retain standard action to do something that does not require any burn.

Does this action reduce the total cost of all effects applied to your blast? Or is Metakinesis off-limits for this reduction. I can see it being off limits, otherwise at 5 you get a huge power jump (although I suppose that is par for the course with other classes)

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I love this class. It's like a beguiler-meets-bard. Illusions, Enchantments, and support, what more does a guy need.

zergtitan wrote:

Quick question on the expanded element wild talent,

When you select a different element with it, it says you gain a 2nd 4th and 6th talent at respected levels from the wild talents of that element. Does this mean that these are bonus talents, or does this mean you now have the ability to choose them?

From the PDF:


If your chosen element is different than your primary

element, you can learn 1st-level wild talents from that
element. At 10th level, you can learn 4th-level wild talents
from that element. At 16th level, you can learn 6th-level wild
talents from that element.

It doesn't say you get talents, just says you have the ability to learn from those elements with a different level requirement.

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As an important note, I LOVE the burn mechanic... It feels like the core mechanic of the class even above everything else. It is one of the true risk/reward styles, which is attractive to many types of players, and this class has enough customization (optional melee ability, differing playstyle based on chosen element) that it should be flexible enough for most.

If you really aren't interested in Burn-style mechanics, it may be a sad fact that this class isn't for you.

It's also totally possible that they will include an archetype that removes the traditional Burn in for a limited pool (1 + 1 / 4 levels or something). This would keep the base class as is but still cater to those who want a (more restricted, read: not risk/reward) style Kineticist.

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Some minor house keeping stuff through the class, just needs some improved clarity. The class as a whole feels amazing, and will finally scratch that itch people have been asking for concerning an "Avatar" style elementalist character.

Add me to the 4+int skills/level. The class feels insanely combat focused and this would help them round out a bit better. Here are some editing/minor concerns about the class + its design (took a while to type so pardon if anything has already been covered:

Kinetic Blast:
- Should it read "chooses to learn one of her elements simple blast..."?
- Also says "all damage .. is treated as magic for DR". Rare Earth metal talent seems to indicate otherwise?
- No action listed, presumably free, to add talents
- Doesn't explicitly say we can use a form AND substance at the same time, wording could be clearer on this?
- Damage scales pretty quickly, surprised after some of the 3.5 Warlock complaints that this has resurfaced in a similar fashion with at-will usage

Wild Talent:
- Should read something like "At 1st level and beyond as indicated on table" to match existing PF products (right now entry only indicates learning at 1st)

Elemental Defense
- It feels complicated and strange that these abilities are able to be used "at will" with an immediate action. Having them be permanent with something like "lose this bonus if you are incapable of taking action or wearing medium or heavier armor bla bla" feels better to me, for the sole reason of bookkeeping... from what I can see the class uses no swift actions so this really inhibits nothing in current usage
- Or simply make activation a free action with limited uses/day (can then add feats/talents increasing that number)

- At 17th level, you actually have a cap of 5 burn/round, with a hard cap of 6 burn/round at 18th. The example of combining Quicken + Twin, using 7 burn, is not achievable unless there are feats/other that increases burn/round cap, or you select one of the 2 at 19th for MetaMaster

Wild Talents (spoilered for length:

- Entangling Infusion has no prereq (should apparently be level 6)

- Extended + Extreme Range feels like a HUGE bump.. they're pretty extreme.. With Airs Reach, having the ability to snipe people from 960ft is pretty ridiculous (by 6th level no less)

- Foe throw sounds super fun (maybe a bit powerful?)

- Kinetic Blade + Kinetic Whip feel like they could make a reeeeeally strong melee character. Ability to use a permanent touch melee weapon (level 5: 3d6+1/2Con) even with requiring SR is pretty huge. I can see some martial characters getting very upset by this!

- Pushing Infusion: not really clear if this requires bull rush?

- Engulfing Winds: lists no action type

- Flame Shield: appears it should read Fire element, currently lists air

- Kinetic Cover: this is just awesome

- Kinetic Form: wow this is crazy strong for a hydrokineticist! Curious though why you take away Earth Glide (2 talents to obtain at 10) and not air Fly speed (2 talents to obtain at 6)? I'm guessing that you don't actually turn into an elemental and lose all your gear, but the wording isn't super clear.

- Kinetic Healer: this is also intensely cool.

- Move Earth: could you theoretically use this to slide an enemy into a chasm if they fail their (high) Ref Save?

- Ride the blast: another favorite!! Feels very "infamous second son" to me.

- Telekinetic Haul: how do we bring this 500-lb statue around with us, now we have an answer!!

- Aetheric Boost: this feels really expensive (2 Burn) for just +1 dmg/2 levels, even at 15 when it can be 3 Burn for +2 dmg/2 levels

This is probably hands-down the class I'm most excited for all of these, and will hopefully playtest one in our WotR game. I'm stuck trying to decide if Aether, Water, or Earth are my favorites. Love it so far and can't wait to see how it progresses + changes.

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Thought the people here would be able to appreciate it!

Tattoo Pic

I'm (obviously) a queer nerd, and have been wanting to get something like this done for a while. I walked in and asked the artist to give me "a d20 but gay it up", and this is what he delivered.

Yes I realize the die is spin-down d20 and not equally-distributed (normal gaming d20), but I totally can't even care because the whole thing was done so well.

Anybody else have cool d20 or nerd tattoos to show off?

I don't like the addition of purple. Muddles the clarity of things.

Something incredibly important I only see come up once is that Warpriests are surprisingly swift-action starved. I think that lends extremely well to the Reach build, allowing them to cast some spells and maybe use a swift blessing (or standard action blessing and fervor a spell).

It would also be nice to see a build-agnostic look at the Blessings. I think there are some extremely powerful ones I don't see mentioned (like the minor Healing blessing, which no longer requires the use of a prepared cure spell).

You also call the colours different things. neon blue, blue. Purple, neon pink.

Looking forward to seeing what it'll be like when you get it a bit more figured out.

Hi all,

making a peasant-turned-adventurer type character, and want to use the Rough and Ready trait to be able to use some kind of farm implement as a reach weapon. Is there any way to give Improvised weapons qualities? I know there is a mythic feat but that isn't really an option for all characters.

This is all I could find on improvised weapons:

Improvised Weapons wrote:

Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

SunsetPsychosis wrote:
Aasimar have access to the Celestial Servant feat that bumps their companion to a magical beast (which has d10 hit dice and fighter BAB progression

If only that were so. This did get FAQ'd that it just changes their type without actually changing their stats. Linky. But I forgot about that feat, Smite and DR is pretty worth it for the cost of 1 feat.

I could also just go the "expendable companion" route and give it the Bodyguard archetype, and try to focus on its defenses as much as possible. Armor proficiency, In Harms Way feat, and Improved natural Armor evolution (if I go that route). Coupled with the DR/Evil (and potentially DR/Mythic as well) could be fairly hardy if nothing else.

Starting to look into builds for an upcoming mythic game (Wrath of the Righteous), and wondering if Animal Companions are even viable?

I'm really interested in playing a hunter, but even with Animal Focus (or the Evolution archetype) doubt it would see much use past Mythic tier 3-4.

So if you think it IS even potentially viable (with or without evolutions from the Eidolon), what would you build and why?

Care to spoil the final list of Spirits for Shaman?

TBH Divine Source really should not be a power gaming tool. You're obviously taking it because your character feels strongly that they want to be worshipped, and has certain ideals you would want your followers to uphold. It's a huge roleplaying opportunity. Which Empyreal Lord do you follow? That's probably a good start for figuring out direction you're going to go.

@Cortez: SLA is spell-like ability. The FAQ lets Aasimars and Tieflings use their abilities (such as Daylight or Darkness) as spells in terms of qualifying for feats, and prestige classes.

3d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 5) = 14
3d6 ⇒ (3, 3, 3) = 9
3d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 3) = 12
3d6 ⇒ (3, 4, 6) = 13
3d6 ⇒ (6, 6, 6) = 18
3d6 ⇒ (3, 3, 5) = 11

I'm thinking either a wizard or sorcerer trying to get into the Hellknight Enforcers. Are you incredibly against the new FAQ on SLA's qualifying for PrCs? Wiz1/Ftr1/EK3/HK- would be my likely build if no.

Slacker2010 wrote:

Why are you using a longspear?

EDIT: Reach guide suggest it due to the fact that clerics are not proficient in all Martial Weapons. As a Warpriest, There are better reach weapons you have access to.

I rebuilt from Cleric to Warpriest at level 3, so just kept it as is.

Most of the feats Mors suggested are mid-late game options.. I need stuff I can take right away (level 3, 5, 6, 7).

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Yes, I have read the wonderful Reach Cleric guide, but quite a bit of it does not apply due to limited casting of the Warpriest.

We are currently

My character:
Human Warpriest of Sarenrae 5
Favored Weapon: Longspear
Current Feats:
- Combat Reflexes
- Power Attack
- Vengeful Banisher
- WF(Longspear)
- Squire *replaceable, haven't taken one yet

My Party:
Mounted Cavalier
TWF Shadowdancer/skirmisher (in the making)
Bow Ranger
Thrower Skald

The idea is that I'm the anchor in the middle of combat, with the other party members moving around as needed (and me built around AoOs like in the guide).

But I'm at a bit at a loss where to go with my feats, as theres nothing incredibly useful until past level 7 or so. The summoning and metamagic feats aren't worthwhile because of the 6/9 casting. We are playing through Wrath of the Righteous, so I can expect to go all the way to level 20.

Feats I am debating:
- Improved Initiative (boring)
- Skill Focus / Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal) (Strength, and flavor)
- Dodge
- Lunge

Other ideas for a polearm wielder that I might have missed for early-mid levels?

Werebat wrote:
Claxon wrote:
While I agree that allowing more source books can increase the power level of the party, there isn't any strong correlation between what is allowed and how powerful your party will be.

There is if your players are reasonably competent min/maxers.

I can't see anywhere yet in this thread where you've talked about your players.. Which is odd, because to me, this is an issue of you being concerned about how powerful your players will be.

ARE they reasonably competent min/maxers? If yes, regardless of how many source books are available to them, they will build something useful/competent/potentially strong.

I know I've had character concepts that could not be fully realized with what was just available in the CRB. All over the boards you can find information on "trouble" classes and archetypes, such as the gunslinger, synthesist (and summoner in general), zen archers, etc. Maybe do something along the lines of "CRB, UM, UC, all allowed explicitly, anything else must be run by me first". That way everybody is satisfied.

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Low level 2H character do that, like XMorsX pointed out. They tend to taper off pretty quick as enemies HP begin to rise. Bruisers are the early game stars, but your Sorc (with proper spell selection) will start to shine at level 6.

Because you're new to both Pathfinder and GMing, I would not recommend modifying encounters. You'll likely end up accidentally killing your party.

Focus more on using good tactics. But also try to play to the enemies tactics, too. If you saw a lightly-armored target swinging a sword chopping all your buddies in half, you would likely try to stay away - use ranged or magic on them instead of engaging in melee.

Runelords can be pretty lethal as is. Here are some tips for the catacombs.

RotRL stuff:

The goblin in there can be a melee beast, but dont forget that he has a breath attack that can nauseate targets in a line. It's reflex and fort to save against it, so it's not like your Barb will fail but theres a chance.

Erylium is where your party might struggle. Have her remain flying the entire time - her fast healing and DR will make her pretty tanky unless your party can get her within melee reach. Use Summon Monster before Hold Person. Ray of Enfeeblement will make your STR characters very sad.

Your party will begin to feel the lack of real healing right away. Make sure your druid is only casting as many Cures as they have prepared.

Something to remember as well: know the limitations of magic that your party can cast. Color Spray works out to 15ft with certain HD thresholds. And important to remember is that Charm Person effectively can't be used in combat.

If you're still having trouble past level 3-4 with the party, post in the Runelords section for some advice (or browse it for ideas).

Presuming that we won't get sub-blessings (similar to sub domains), I'd really like to see niche/overly specific blessings changed.

Main example, the major ability from Sun blessings.

It means that for any campaign without an undead focus, it becomes a false option.

MrSin wrote:
So the oracle/witch is a prepared druid caster? Don't suppose we could find details on that logic somewhere could we?

The spells added make things a little bit easier. Can still pull off a decent battle shaman with the Battle spirit.

Also surprised to see a decent number of arcane spells added in. Fly, overland flight, fear, wail of the banshee.. It'll make a decent casty/blasty class now too.

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According to Jasons interview on Know Direction this evening, he isn't really sold on the idea of using the druid list. He isn't sure they want to make a new list, but whatever they decide will be in the new playtest document (late this week, or early next week)

Invisibility wrote:
... Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth...

The type of action that breaks invisibility is "attack", not "offensive". So things like grease, glitterdust, create pit, and other examples listed within the spell itself don't break invisibility. Charm is not an attack, and would not break invisibility.

Spells that directly cause damage, even in an AoE (such as fireball, or cone of colt), are attacks. "Healing" spells, if you mean Cure, don't break invisibility if used to heal. If you use it to hurt undead, it is considered an attack and thus would break invisibility.

Character Level: 2
Race: Human
Role: Melee/Support/Healer

Class choices:
- Battle Spirit
- Battle Master hex

We are playing through Wrath of the Righteous.

The only real comments I can make on this so far is that healing is tough to do on this character (much like it would be on a druid, and to a lesser extent, witch). Healing Spirit feels incredibly broken as a first level ability - but it was also the only reason we were able to survive our combats during the session.

Having switched from being a cleric, I feel like Healing Spirit outpowers Channel Energy pretty well at this level. Getting to automatically restore 12HP at this level to an ally for up to (3+cha)/day is nice.

I'd like to see an archetype or other class feature (maybe in the Life spirit) that allows the Shaman to become a main healer with a little more ease. The oracle gets to add Cure (or inflict) to its spells known automatically, and the witch has access to spontaneous healing via the Hedge Witch archetype.

Right now it feels silly that Battle shaman is a better healer at low levels than a Life shaman is.

@Druid Spell List

I'm not sure I like the idea of the druid spell list, mainly for some of the big reasons pointed out above: it's mostly focused on animals, and it's far more offensively powered. For such a MAD class, having more defensive spells (from the oracle/cleric list) is nice.

I feel like giving it the druid spell list would negate most of its melee potential as a caster.

But I do support the idea of an archetype that got the witch or druid spell list instead.

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Spoiler alert? I avoid the store blog because it has these kind of things. Haven't seen anything so spoilery in the first line of a paizo blog before.


Robert Jordan wrote:

The only hiccup with that is it says you have to choose your hexes from your spirits. Which would be awesome with more than one spirit, but I don't think you could use extra hex to pick a hex from a wandering spirit because you won't always have that spirit. That's why I think it would work better calling those Revelations and giving them 5 actual Witch hexes from the witch list over their 20 levels. That way you can definitely expand that if you want to.

I think I might have just been confused on what the core concept of this class is. My interpretation from the little blurbs we had early on was it was going to be a Witch/Oracle mash up power wise, as opposed to a Witch flavor mashed up with Oracle mechanics, because that's kinda how it feels to me.

By strict RAW, you can take Extra Hex, even for your Wandering Spirits. Any ability/bonus that lasts longer than 24 hours allows you to qualify for feats, etc (iirc).

But I'm also almost entirely certain they don't want you to gain access to extra Shaman Hexes. I feel like you acquire them at a quick enough rate (interspersed with Spirit Abilities).

Cheapy wrote:
Finally, the use of a Charisma is fully intentional for this class, so it mimics the cleric's requirement for Charisma to power channel energy.

I actually came into the playtest fully expecting both the Arcanist and Shaman to use dual-casting stats, being a blend a two different casters. This is from some of the later 3.5 casters and other powerful full casters like SGGs Magister. Arcanist however only uses Int for its casting and abilities (superseding the bloodline Cha usage even), Blood Focus usage being based on level.

However, I also expected the Shaman to have 1/2 BAB, d6 HD, and be wearing light or no armor (making it far less melee-viable). I also didn't expect it to use the cleric/oracle spell list (rather, the witch or druid lists).

I feel like modelling the Shaman off of the cleric is a mistake, as that is not one of its base classes. I can understand justifying SOME of the abilities to be based off charisma, but not as many as currently are. If we continue to model the shaman after the cleric, domain ability usage is tied directly to either a clerics level or wisdom (pretty sure there aren't any that use Cha). When a cleric chooses to ignore Cha, it's only Channel Energy she loses out on. If a shaman chooses to ignore Cha for whatever reason (low point buy, battle caster build, crappy rolls), she loses out on a whole slough of abilities, not just healing (but including it as well).

Including a Battle Spirit, as well as the armour, HD, and BAB the class has, is a clear indicator that the class should be melee viable. The case I made earlier about this, in comparing it to the cleric, is that it requires the extra ability to maintain its class abilities beyond what a cleric requires. The oracle gets away with needing less ability scores. Heck even the *witch* requires less ability scores to get into melee (hair, using Int).

If it came down to:
a) De-power some of the class abilities in order to base them off Wis instead of Cha, in order to alleviate MAD without mucking up too much of the power of the class
b) Leave it the same and have some builds struggle (good Lore Shamans, battle shamans, poor ability score shamans)

I would choose A in a heartbeat. Interested to hear what others would choose, though.

Regeaj wrote:

Disagree on quite a bit of this sadly. I feel like the shaman already has a lot of versatility (especially compared to the oracle, cleric, and witch) and doesn't need any more. I'm pretty certain already this will get tweaked back in power before final release, and that they won't be adding further class abilities (but maybe more Spirits).

Considering the Advanced Class Guide playtest launched today, what are your thoughts on using the material?

The entire point of the new classes is that it's a hybrid of two core/base classes. It's been mentioned several times that they are intended to feel familiar. It's probably worth mentioning in the actual class thread for each class you feel this for.

Bloodrager, for me, is a perfect blend of barbarian and sorcerer. It's all about rage and bloodlines. Better yet, it uses the magus spell list, which is pretty combat focused. While it doesn't have anything overly new to add to the mix (the bloodlines have been retooled though) it doesn't really need much.

ciretose wrote:
Would have preferred to see the Familiar replaced with something like a fetish. A bonded item of some sort, rather than just another familiar class.

Considering there are a couple witch archetypes that do as much, I'd expect to see one in the final release.

Because this is a playtest, I hope they will add more Spirit options. They seem to be mainly based around the Oracle mysteries. I can easily see them adding Time, Lunar, Metal, and Ancestors (among others) to this list by actual release. I'd also really like to see some of the Witch Patrons developed into full Spirits, instead of only pulling from the oracle.

The Witch Ward Hex has a duration of 'until expended', but can only have one up at a time, and can't use it on themselves. So some clarity will hopefully be nice

Arcane Enlightment makes sense that it requires all 3 mental stats to be used to its full extent. For dedicated casters, it means it's an option to increase their potent versatility even further. For battle shamans, it means it will take some major effort to get some useful arcane spells out of it. But agreed that it's one of the most (if not most) powerful Wandering Hexes.

@Oracle vs Witch flavour:
I feel like it finds a nice middle ground in terms of flavour. In terms of class abilities, it definitely feels heavy towards the oracle though. The skills, some of the hexes, and familiar are really the only witchy things mechanically.

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The thing I wasn't too fond of in the Warpriest was that it feels a bit like they're forced to use their deities favored weapon. So if you want to play a mounted knight to Iomedae, an archer devoted to any deity other than Erastil... The limiting nature of the class is a bit of an immediate turn off for me. At the very least I'd like to see an archetype that allows you to choose your own weapon.

That being said, I do like the class. It took me a minute to realize that armor and weapon training were hidden within the warpriest.

Dylos wrote:
Can the Shaman learn Witch Hexes, or only the hexes mentioned in their spirit?

Their Hex ability reads: ...At 2nd level, a shaman learns one hex, chosen from those available from her spirit...

So, pretty clear just the ones given to them by their Spirit, and then the Wandering Hex can obviously be chosen from between their Spirit or Wandering Spirit.

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I will be rebuilding my Cleric (Seperatist) of Sarenrae as a Shaman for our WotR campaign.

Some initial observations on the class:
- I really like the flavour + theme through the class
- I was surprised it was 3/4 BAB and medium armor
- I was surprised it used the Cleric spell list given the theme of the class (figured it might have been druid or witch)
- In a cursory glance over all the classes, it looks like this and Warpriest are the only two classes that have built-in MAD (Warpriest to a lesser extent). Wisdom and Charisma are both important for their class abilities to function properly/well. I understand that if you want to build a warrior cleric or oracle you will need 2-3 strong stats, but this requires the extra stat on top of them. I would prefer if some of the class abilities scaled off of level (like others within the class, and it looks like a majority of the other classes in the ACG) do. Will playtest before coming to a full conclusion

Some initial thoughts while rebuilding my character (currently a level 2 human):
- the Shaman is likely easier to be compared directly to the cleric in terms of power, because they use the same spellcasting, armor proficiencies, HD, BAB (and because the cleric is core)
- the ability to choose your Spirit Magic on the fly is really interesting, but isn't really a big thing until level 4 when you get Wandering Spirit (compared to cleric: stronger ability)
- Wandering Spirit and Wandering Hex are wonderful class features. I love them. They are incredibly versatile, and can help a character from getting stale. I feel like on a whole each spirit is stronger than a domain
- I was also (pleasantly) surprised that they got 4 skills/level, even with a small skill list

I can see this being an incredibly deadly, versatile spellcaster with the Lore Spirit, getting access to the wizard/sorc list. But I'm super excited to see what I can do with it, throwing it right into melee.

It feels powerful in comparison to the cleric. But it's a wonderful class.


4d6 ⇒ (3, 5, 3, 4) = 15
4d6 ⇒ (6, 6, 1, 1) = 14
4d6 ⇒ (4, 4, 4, 2) = 14
4d6 ⇒ (2, 3, 1, 2) = 8
4d6 ⇒ (2, 3, 6, 6) = 17
4d6 ⇒ (5, 6, 4, 1) = 16
12 13 12 7 15 15

4d6 ⇒ (6, 3, 4, 5) = 18
4d6 ⇒ (5, 5, 3, 6) = 19
4d6 ⇒ (1, 1, 3, 5) = 10
4d6 ⇒ (6, 2, 2, 5) = 15
4d6 ⇒ (4, 3, 4, 2) = 13
4d6 ⇒ (1, 3, 3, 2) = 9
15 16 9 13 11 8

1d6 ⇒ 2


The Jade Regent AP has lots of information about Minkai, but it sounds like you're doing it super home brew rather than Golarion Minkai.

Mike Tuholski wrote:

Anyone play LOTRO? I'd like to see a class similar to the Rune Keeper on there. Probably WIS-based caster that can both heal and harm but the more you heal, the better at healing you get and the more you harm the better at harming you get.

In LOTRO, basically if you cast a blast spell all of your healing spells become less powerful and your blast spells become stronger (and vice versa). It allows you to be really versatile for what your party needs. But switching back and forth makes you just mediocre.

It would be an interesting class to play around with. And Rune Keeper would have a lot of flavor, in my opinion.

See I'd actually be far more interested in some kind of caster hybrid that was the exact opposite. A class that had to find a balance of healing + harm to live to its true potential.

I know I've seen it implemented well before, but can't recall where (video game, card game, board game, idk).

Name Violation wrote:

i actually hope we get more alternate classes to stop "crazy combo" abuse

even if its "a blood rager is an alternate for barbarian and sorcerer" and you cant take levels of either, or make it an alt barabarian with the stipulation it has to be your sorcerer bloodline and levels stack (like a familiar stacks, or how an inquisitor/cleric has to share a domain)

According to an interview Erik Mona did, they're all going to be alternative classes.

"Erik Mona wrote:
...So there is [going to be] something familiar and something new about all the classes. They are going to playtest shortly, but the current plan is that they're going to be considered alternate classes. So if it's a class that's made up of a Fighter and a Wizard, you wouldn't be able to take levels of Wizard or Fighter as well.

Linky to full interview

My group consists of a bunch of university students and shift workers. We have our scheduled game Thursday nights, and it always seems that one person would cancel at least every other week. So, we picked up a fifth player- this means we can play even if one person cancels (and the group understands that a single cancel won't affect the session). Two cancels or more, we decide if we still want to play, or just get together and hang out (to help people keep the Thursday sched).

I also have put my foot down, and tell everybody who joins my game that they will be expected to make 4/5 games. I understand people have lives, but everybody else is committing to this so you should too.

Make a schedule and stick to it.

As for having less active players... I also have a "no electronics" rule at the table. People get distracted too easily with a cell phone or computer. It's helped keep immersion up. If they prove they can have a device and not fiddle around on it then let them use it.

Yes I'm a bit of a nazi GM, but all these little things help to keep everybody showing up, and staying focused while playing.

Healing in combat is a big waste of time, and usually resources. Teach your party proper tactical play, force them to carry potions, and make sure their AC/saves are at a reasonable level. That will give you a little more wiggle room on the battlefield to do fun things.

Zark wrote:
dunebugg wrote:
According to Paizos Facebook, the document is in editing (posted in response to a question, yesterday early AM). So not sure how long editing takes, or how longs it's been there, but looks like Soon!(TM)

We had a total party kill yesterday (I had Sorcerer that got killed). It would be really neat if they could publish the playtest so I could try out one on of the new classes. Right now I'm on the fence between playing a new Sorcerer or playing a Paladin (since we need one of these two rolls covered).

If the playtest comes up I'm gonna play an Arcanist, Warpriest or Bloodrager. Bloodrager could be a perfect fit for our group if it is a strong Melee type that gets some spells.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the others in our gaming group also wants to test one of the new classes, but if the playtest isn't up until Friday or Monday the latest it won't happen.

I hate TPK, but it usually keeps your next group focused.

I hear ya. Our GM said he wouldn't be ready to run the next campaign until February. Here I am thinking we'd have the playtest, Inner Sea Gods, and my Deep Magic (Kobold Press) books. But nope, he wants to start this week (tomorrow!), so may have to rebuild a character after the first session or two haha.

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According to Paizos Facebook, the document is in editing (posted in response to a question, yesterday early AM). So not sure how long editing takes, or how longs it's been there, but looks like Soon!(TM)

Yeah, I'm curious why there hasn't been any update at all since the original blog post. I think it was Jason that did an interview about it, and he said they wanted the playtest to start by the end of september.

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