Keep in mind that if someone kills you with a reach weapon (or if they have natural reach of 10 feet or more, or if they use a ranged attack) they're outside the blast's area. So the feat isn't even guaranteed to do anything.
If you combine it with From The Ashes, it is thematic and cool, and lets you die, damage everything around you, and immediately Phoenix self-resurrect.
Parting Blast doesn't work with From the Ashes, because it doesn't say that you die and come back, just that you transform into ash and then reform out of it. The fact that the two are incompatible is rather disappointing.
A Shaman with the the Witch Variant Multiclass can't qualify for Extra Hex even if they want to use it for another Shaman hex.
This could be fixed by replacing "She never qualifies for the Extra Hex feat" with "She cannot qualify for the Extra Hex feat through the hexes granted at 7th, 15th, or 19th level".
I'm having trouble understanding this, so it would be nice if I could hear from a developer on it:
The playtest Kineticist had piddly damage, about on par with a bow-using warrior (not fighter, warrior), and release Kineticist looks to be pretty much the same. Is there a reason why the Kineticist's damage output wasn't changed much from playtest to release?
That punishes Warlocks who who don't take all the casting talents. It would be better, were a change of this sort implemented, to set it a 1d6 at 1st level +1d6 per three caster levels after 1st (4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, 19th), with a maximum of 7d6. This also doesn't change the end-of-build average damage by very much.
Regardless of all that, though, can we all agree that Mystic Bolt should not have a level restriction?
Can't you twf with a mystic bolt and thus also use say an Alchemists bombs as well? That's pretty powerful.
You wouldn't be able to TWF with bombs+bolts without Fast Bombs, which requires an 8-level "dip" into Alchemist. You can only spend talents on discoveries marked with a *, and Fast Bombs isn't one of those.
Regarding Magus in particular: they cast from their own list. There's no 6ths-caster who uses the Sor/Wiz list, which is a big part of why I think Warlock should be expanded into its own class with proper 6th-level casting and a larger talent list (plus some core class features that actually complement the spellcasting, maybe something similar to arcane pool or arcane reservoir). Toss on an archetype that gets hexes and uses the Witch list, and then every full caster (other than shaman) has a 6ths-caster counterpart.
Actually, it even has worse casting - 4/4/4/4/4/1 instead of 5/5/5/5/5/5.
Zealot not only has no reason to be playtested, it has no reason to exist.
Could you use Power Attack with Melee mystic bolt?
Why don't you read the feat first?
Power Attack wrote:
Hm. First, it needs to say somewhere that you need to have a mentor to take this archetype; it's mentioned in the fluff that they fight alongside someone else, but having a mentor isn't actually required anywhere. Unless that's intentional.
Oath of Loyalty is pointless, IMO. A sidekick following his mentor's directions should be fluff, not mechanics. Any player who needs to be forced to have their character obey their mentor won't be playing a Sidekick in the first place. But it replaces Renown so at least I don't lose anything that I'd ever miss... or even notice.
I like luck pool. You'll want to specify that each point spent grants a stacking +1 bonus. The recovery method could be gamed by making a Perception check every round and/or casting Resistance on yourself and trying to save against it every round, so you'll want to gate the recovery somehow (maybe they can only recover 1 point per 10 minutes when not in combat?). It replaces Loyal Aid, which is fine, because a PC who stays in one area long enough will have a few allies regardless of any ally-granting class features.
Emulation is neat, especially gaining access to talents. Needing to meet prerequisites is annoying but kind of necessary. Would be nice if they could get two feats at 10th and three feats or two talents at 15th, with the action cost staying at a single move action.
Taunt is nice. Might want to say that the target is sickened until they attack the sidekick or until 1 round has passed, whichever comes first. Also this ability doesn't specify the level at which it comes online.
Harm's Way is alright but not particularly useful.
Take Up the Mantle isn't any good unless you change your mind about trading away the Startling Appearance chain.
Overall, the archetype is good. I'd take it for sure, but only because it gives up a mix of class features that aren't particularly great and gets some things that would be actually useful in normal play. The only things I'd miss at all are the Startling/Frightening/Stunning appearance line, and even those are very situational because it's not all that common for players to be able to get the jump on enemies that aren't just mooks.
The kineticist's is stronger, yes, but it also deals them 1 nonlethal (1 point of burn) per round at that level, since the Maximize metakinesis has a cost of 2. They can, however, use a move action to gather power and then attack with an Empowered Kinetic Blast at no burn cost, for an average of 31.5+0.75*Con. Still more than the Mystic Bolt's 29 damage (both touch attacks are going to hit in most cases), but Kinetic Blast is a core class feature of the Kineticist and Mystic Bolt is (nominally) an optional feature for the Warlock.
PIXIE DUST wrote:
Personally I am advocating this as a fix for the Melee side of things. People keep saying that they should nerf down the Warlock side of things because the martial side of things are kinda weak, well I say buff up the martials with a Grit mechanic.
Wait, people want Warlock nerfed? That's stupid. Warlock is the only specialization that's actually good at the moment.
Going by this barbarian rage adds and rapid shot works (the only reason it doesn't normally work for a ray is the need for a full attack). I'd also think arcane strike should work.
Pretty sure you can't use spell-like abilities while raging.
So I'm clueless why it's been said rapid shot or arcane strike don't work as they seem to work with rays. It must be special rules for Mystic Bolts.
If it is special rules for Mystic Bolts, it needs to be called out in the ability description when UI goes to print. Personally, I think Arcane Strike should be applicable to Mystic Bolt like it is to all other rays. What's the design reasoning behind it not applying?
I like this concept. I want to see it implemented somehow. But I don't want to see it as part of the Vigilante. Dual Identity makes zero sense with this idea.
That's a systemic issue with the Vigilante; the dual identity mechanic and its follow-ups will always feel tacked on to the specializations, which are the real mechanical core of this class.
Hm. Let's see.Are ranged touch spell-like abilities part of a fighter weapon group?
Do characters benefit from inspire courage with ranged touch spell-like abilities?
You get the benefit to attack rolls because that applies to all attack rolls. It's a weaponlike SLA, so you get the bonus to damage, too.
Can characters benefit from divine favor with ranged touch spell-like abilities?
Yes. See above.
Can characters use spell-like abilities during Unchained Barbarian Rage?
Mystic Bolt isn't its own weapon type. It's spell-like, so it resolves as a spell. Anything you can do with Acid Splash you can do with Mystic Bolt. See this thread for more on weaponlike spells.
Humphry B ManWitch wrote:
Can you TWO Weapon Fight with Mystic Bolts.. I.e each hand has Mystic Bolts.
That's already been resolved elsewhere. You can't TWF with Mystic Bolt and Mystic Bolt, but you can TWF with Mystic Bolt + another weapon.
Or maybe the Warlock and Zealot get proper 6th-level casting and give up half of their talents automatically. Then there wouldn't be any casting-advancing talents.
James Gibbons wrote:
It's a class feature of the Kineticist, from Occult Adventures (it'll be out this summer). It's basically the 3.5 Warlock with an elemental fluff (think avatar: the last airbender). Kinetic Blast is a ranged touch that deals 1d6 per odd Kineticist level (1d6 at 1st, 2d6 at 3rd, etc). No iteratives with it, though, which is dumb.
That won't happen, actually. Unchained Eidolons can have the same number of natural attacks, and still get access to the Pounce evolution. The only thing that Pathfinder Unchained actually managed to fix about the Summoner was the spell list. They even let Master Summoner remain an option, because that archetype was totally balanced.
Ooh, nice idea. It comes online at level 7, though (Warlock 4/Witch 3). Which is another reason why Mystic Bolt shouldn't have a level restriction.
I don't think four separate classes are necessary, only two.
One class would be the Vigilante:
The other would be the Warlock:
Then a number of archetypes (and a Variant Multiclass) could be written that grant the Dual Identity stuff to other classes.
I definitely agree with you, Helcack. However, it's worth noting that combining all the talents into one list doesn't let a character get more than one type of casting - the abilities that grant casting to begin with (Arcane/Divine Training 1) are base abilities, not talents. Same goes for Hidden Strike and full BAB.
You can make a character with 6 level arcane/divine and 9 level of the other one with on average d8 HD, 3/4 BAB, 6 SP/lvl, and 1 good save who also has class features easily with prestige classes.
I'm skeptical but curious about this. Let's see a build that does all that.
Insain Dragoon wrote:
I definitely agree about combining Avenger and Stalker. More on that below.
To be entirely honest, I think the best way to fix this class and concept would be to do the following:
Milo v3 wrote:
Well, it doesn't let them cast. But there's nothing prohibiting (Sp) or (Su) abilities, so Mystic Bolt is still in.
I agree about the uses/day. Maybe it can be used in 1-round increments? If that's a bit much it could be kept at 1/day for levels 6-13 and become usable in 1-minute increments from level 14 onwards.
Overall, though, definitely a fun ability. I'd take it on a Warlock for sure. Thanks for sharing it with us, Mark!
Edit to add: I got ninja'd by the man himself, suggesting the very same thing as I thought of :D
The black raven wrote:
No. No penalty at all. What I was saying was a character should be able to access their talents when in social form, and if the character wants to keep their powers secret they can just not use those talents in social form.
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Two alignments in one brain??!?!? I can't truly grasp the two alignment concept... really they should have a real alignment and perhaps their mundane/social alias should "pretend" to be a different alignment for the sake of blending into the society they live in, but to have two separate alignment in one brain just borders too much on multiple identity disorder to me... or maybe that's the point? I mean oracles have "curses" and this vigilante, well, he's just bat s@#% crazy and you have to accept it? if not, make it "Vigilante have one true alignment, but they can pretend to be any one other alignment within one step of their true alignment for the purpose of spell effects, alignment detection, and so on."
I definitely agree. Having two alignments is much too complicated. Your suggestion works much better.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
It might be better to bake the whole spells per day class bit into the 1st level arcane training / divine training ability and power up the avenger and stalker abilities to compensate.
Agreed. My personal suggestion is to give the Warlock and Zealot full 6th-level casting (ending at 5/5/5/5/5/5 spells per day) and make them give up their 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level talents.
I'm pretty sure that's how it works already, actually. There's nothing that I've read that specifies that a large city can't be made up of smaller communities, each with their own geographical or demographic qualities (e.g. the north side slums or the gnomish district).
This is easily fixed, though - have the caster specializations give up the 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th-level talents automatically, in exchange for a proper, normally-scaling 6th-level casting progression.
The two casting specializations might work better as archetypes: take away the 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level talents, and the base ability, in exchange for a proper 6th-level casting progression plus access to the relevant talents.
Milo v3 wrote:
Agreed. The only time when fighter should be measured against is for damage numbers.
Milo v3 wrote:
Edit: I hope that the warlock gets so artificer stuff in the end, magic a gadgeteer is difficult right now but having a talent that gave a item crafting feat as a bonus feat in the same vein as the avengers combat talent would be useful.
It would be cool to see an "inventor" specialization where they get an alchemy progression, can take bombs as a talent (Warlock would lose access to bombs) and get a bunch of cool crafting stuff.
By RAW: Power Attack no (doesn't work with touch attacks), Risky Striker yes.
You're mixing up spells prepared and spells per day. The 6/6/6/6/5/5 is spells prepared, the 4/3/3/3/3/2/1 is spells per day.
No, actually. The 6/6/6/6/5/5 is spells prepared, the 4/3/3/3/3/2/1 is spells per day.
I do think that taking it for another element should open up the abilit ty TWF with it. though i can see the dangers of that for sure
Mystic Bolt TWF would indeed be awesome.
But what are the dangers? Sure, they're touch attacks, but that means no Deadly Aim so between that and the average base attack bonus, it balances out (easier to hit, less damage). Any moderately optimized archer can put out a lot more than 1d6+level per hit from pretty early on, too. I can run the numbers if anyone wants me to.
That's pitifully bad. The casting specializations should have the full 5/5/5/5/5/5 of the other 6ths-casters.
They don't actually cast arcane spells (the type of casting isn't explicitly defined anywhere, but it's implied to be arcane). So by the current RAW, they can cast in armor. That's probably getting changed, though :(
Warlock casts from Sor/Wiz list, Zealot from Inquisitor list.
The number of spells per day is determined by which talents you have. It's confusing and underpowered; they should just be given a normal 6th-level casting progression in terms of spells known/prepared/per day, and each casting talent should unlock the next level of spells, which they can start casting when they reach the right level.
Theorycrafting and comparison to other classes (e.g. building an Avenger Vigilante, then building a Fighter, and comparing their numbers) can be just as helpful as actual play experience.
Agreed. Arcane/Divine Training I should still be automatically granted, but this would work nicely.
Yes. This NEEDS to be implemented. Perhaps with a clause that no-save effects treat the target as if they didn't exist, but I don't even know if there are any no-save scrying effects.
They don't use two mental stats… at least, not really. The only thing tied to charisma is Frightening Appearance. Nothing in Warlock gives you any benefit for a decent charisma score beyond it boosting some skills. Warlock lets you play an Int-focused Vigilante effectively.
Hm, you're right. I guess I was overestimating the presence of Charisma in the class's abilities. Warlock is probably fine where it is with Int-based casting, then.
Why does the Warlock cast from Intelligence but still have Charisma-based class features (e.g. Frightening Appearance)? Selecting the Warlock specialization should change the Cha-based stuff to be Int-based, in my opinion. Making them use two mental scores when every other specialization needs one mental stat (or even zero, in the case of non-social Avengers and Stalkers) is odd.
In their current state, the casting progressions are really awkward and seem like they'd be annoying to play with. Why should a Warlock Vigilante have to wait an extra level for 3rd- and 5th-level spells? It would be better, in my opinion, if one of these two options were implemented:
Shift the spells known/prepared tables to match the standard every-three-levels progression of the other Bard-style casters, i.e. 3rd- and 5th-level spells became available one level earlier.
Reword the Arcane/Divine Training III and V talents (not the others, just III and V of each type) to the following (added or changed portions in bold):
Do away with the Arcane/Divine Training II-VI talents. Take away the level 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20 talents of the Warlock and Zealot (so they only get five talents, at levels 2, 6, 10, 14, and 18). The class table would still list all ten talents, but in the description of Warlock and Zealot, you could just add a sentence saying that they only get half as many as some other specializations. Grant them the full spells prepared/known progressions that they already have, but shift the 3rd and 5th level spells one level earlier. Give them a spells per day progression equal to that of the Bard, or Hunter, or any of the other Paizo partial-casters.
I'd prefer option 2, because it's simpler and more elegant, but option 1 sticks a bit closer to the class's current state.