Goblin Squad Member
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There are pages and pages of what 6, ok ok 10, people calling for their removal... Hardly worth considering.
Be careful with words like this, it doesn't make you look good - especially to those who aren't paying close attention. (It makes it sound like you're giving a middle finger to the community as a whole.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just like every Golgothan has a right to vote for Golgotha.
Golgothans are not voting for Golgatha.
They are in fact voting for PAX Golgotha.
With all due respect but Pax Aeternum & PAX Golgotha got themselves into this issue by not considering the full implication of the naming, the website and the competitive nature of the game we are entering into when setting themselves up for the landrush.
I had spoken to several member of pax during some voice chats and I know full well they intend to use EVERYTHING they can to gain any advantage they can get WITHIN THE RULES OF THE GAME. Good for you, that's what the game is about.
I would expect any other competent guild or organization to do the same.
The only issue is what you did Within the Rules of the Game?
I personally believe that outside of a few misguided individuals from PaxA and and a post encouraging them to vote for PaxG despite being members of PaxA (if this is even true) made by an extremely foolish and short sighted "leader" in PaxA, both of which I believe have been corrected whats been done is Within the Rules of the Game.
Weather those Rules of the Game are in fact correct is another matter entirely and something that should be addressed before LR III and I hope the reason this thread still exists.
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Goblin Squad Member
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No. No apologies. You make a post saying you want to hear from new speakers. You say that as the CEO of the company. You say that as the most authoritative voice on these forums. You say that after page after page of people calling for our removal.
What did you expect?
Most people (including me) did not and were not asking for Golgotha's removal (notice, the thread is about Pax, not Golgotha). Personally, I never saw that as an option short of you doing it voluntarily...and since most of you stated you feel justified in your actions, I did not think that likely.
Most people that questioned your position suggested creating the appearance of distance through rebranding efforts so that to incoming groups you did not appear to be one group.
Few (if any) asked or suggested you should be removed by GW. But, I realize you want to take a moment to bask in what you must feel is vindication, a win of sorts. For right or wrong, I will not try to take that from you.
Best of luck to Pax moving forward.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I personally believe that outside of a few misguided individuals from PaxA and and a post encouraging them to vote for PaxG despite being members of PaxA (if this is even true) made by an extremely foolish and short sighted "leader" in PaxA, both of which I believe have been corrected whats been done is Within the Rules of the Game.
Watch yourself there.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There are pages and pages of what 6, ok ok 10, people calling for their removal... Hardly worth considering.Be careful with words like this, it doesn't make you look good - especially to those who aren't paying close attention. (It makes it sound like you're giving a middle finger to the community as a whole.)
I will be honest. I am giving the middle finger to those who were looking to destroy a large group in the community. People will see that as well. Pax is a great gaming community, and others here were out to get them over their internet pixels.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Maybe your time would be better spent asking Ryan to be more clear, instead of running cover for him.Common sense dictates, vague statements can not be honored and should always be ignored.This is exactly what I'm trying to get the community to stand up to.
We did, we got similar responses that are posted here. We made decisions within the bounds of those guidelines. We did not see the ambiguity you keep claiming is there.
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Goblin Squad Member
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We are very much not giving the entire community the finger. Just a few people who have been trying to remove us.I was under the impression Kitsune Aou was referring specifically to Xeen, not anyone else. Forgive me if I'm mistaken, Kitsune Aou.
Just specifically Xeen, with that specific post, with those specific words he chose. I'm not attacking anyone's character or putting words into their mouths, I'm just being friendly and letting him know that these types of statements can look really bad.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I personally believe that outside of a few misguided individuals from PaxA and and a post encouraging them to vote for PaxG despite being members of PaxA (if this is even true) made by an extremely foolish and short sighted "leader" in PaxA, both of which I believe have been corrected whats been done is Within the Rules of the Game.Watch yourself there.
What part of you that did you have issue with?
There were rumors that someone in PaxA had encouraged members of PaxA to vote for PaxG.
If in fact that is true given the rules as I understand them it would have been short sighted and foolish of a leader to do this. They should have realized the nature of the response if that ever got out.
Ahh, I believe I wrote that poorly. I did not to mean to imply the person was short sighted and foolish, rather his/her actions. I apologize of it was taken as such.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm happy that "Golgotha" received the answer they were hoping for, as this is a happy day for you all. However, your organization really needs to learn how to take criticism and try to understand where people were coming from. Accept and own that there was (and will continue to be) a well-deserved controversy around this topic and move on. Shame on you for trying to throw mud upon Nihimon's reputation for being the standard bearer of a widely shared opinion.
It would be great if you all could apologize to each other publicly and move on and keep the mudslinging for the battlefield.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Avari, Alexander, Aou, Jiminy, KC, Caldeathe, GrumpyMel, Alzaric, Dergard, Flintlokk and everyone else who knows who they are. You folks get us. Thank you.
I could go on and on about everything that has happened there, but I'll just hit the highlights.
Nihimon... the items I loot from your corpse each and every time I kill you will be among my most treasured possessions.
T7V... you should think LONG and HARD about how the actions of your leaders will play out in game. Indecisiveness will get you killed and Phaeros razed.
Roseblood... mind the company you keep. You WILL be held accountable for their actions unless you take action to ensure that you are not. Some of you did so, some did not. Its not a threat, its a likely situation that you will found in time and time again. It is in your best interest to either stand with your allies, or against them. Neutrality allows others to decide that for you.
Morbis... wow.
Khas... brother. It is in this our darkest hour, that I truly realized what Fidelis is all about. Thank you for the inspiration. A silver lining if nothing else.
Bludd and Xeen... I see you.
To the members of Pax Gaming... I am truly honored to be a member of our community. Best gaming decision I've ever made was to join you all, period.
To the coward that started all of this... try again... try harder. You will be left wanting each and every time.
-Areks Kel'Goran of Xeilias
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Wait. This discussion didn't lead to anything at all? Nobody could agree? Everything was pointlessly split in a needlessly drawn out controversy and now people are so sick of it they just give up?
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Awesome. The Sock Puppet Conspiracy has been a success.
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PSYCH! Next person who posts on this thread loses twenty-seven Goblin Balls.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Avari, Alexander, Aou, Jiminy, KC, Caldeathe, GrumpyMel, Alzaric, Dergard, Flintlokk and everyone else who knows who they are. You folks get us. Thank you.
I'll offer you a wink, a smile, a coke and an arrow to the eye!
Let's have a great game guys and girls.
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"Community" are made up of people. People are made up of persons and persons are individuals.
I find it truly amazing that this "community" wants to tell -nay enforce- how an individual should spend their $100 Landrush vote.
If any person, group of people, organization, community wanted to tell me how to use my $100 vote, I would tell them to go F@$# themselves (and yes, this would include the Pax Gaming Community I am apart of if they wanted me to do something I did not want to).
As long as the rules are followed that have been set down by the developers (1 account, 1 vote as long as you have not voted in LR1) No amount of incorporeal or alphabetic characteristic jurisprudence will change that.
PS Love you Pax Leadership
Phew! You arrived just before the cutoff date.
Speaking of cutoffs...oops.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Please don't say Goblin Balls... It makes Nihimon throw up in his mouth.
What? Goblin Balls
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can't believe people are posting proclamations of revenge, and keeping lists of names of the people who disagreed with them on a pre-alpha message board, so 2 years later when settlement pvp is in they can remember who to be mad at.
Good lord can we not just let it go. It was bad enough during the thread, do we have to extend the pettiness into the game too? There are reasonable arguments on both sides, whether the main actors involved were making those good arguments or not. There were also way more terrible arguments and toxic accusations that had no place in this thread or any other, unfortunately.
Golgotha is in. What they are doing is permissible, whether anyone likes it or not. They've made their choice. Further discussion seems like a total waste of time to me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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"Community" are made up of people. People are made up of persons and persons are individuals.
I find it truly amazing that this "community" wants to tell -nay enforce- how an individual should spend their $100 Landrush vote.
If any person, group of people, organization, community wanted to tell me how to use my $100 vote, I would tell them to go F@$# themselves (and yes, this would include the Pax Gaming Community I am apart of if they wanted me to do something I did not want to).
As long as the rules are followed that have been set down by the developers (1 account, 1 vote as long as you have not voted in LR1) No amount of incorporeal or alphabetic characteristic jurisprudence will change that.
PS Love you Pax Leadership
Phew! You arrived just before the cutoff date.
Speaking of cutoffs...oops.
Does this include all of your hilarious accounts too Kobold? :3
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Goblin Squad Member
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This thread has been pretty successfull at demonstrating that GW desperately needs a community manager. Another attempt by Ryan to stirr crap up in an attempt to have people hate each other in order to fuel the settlement conflict machine will destroy this community.
I can't believe people are posting proclamations of revenge, and keeping lists of names of the people who disagreed with them on a pre-alpha message board, so 2 years later when settlement pvp is in they can remember who to be mad at.
Maybe they are part of a metagame group that enforces 'positive forum play' and decided others broke that accord.
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I think the main problem was the lack of moderation, yes. I often poke fun at Chris Lambertz, but...man, we needed Lambertz in here. If only to drop in every few posts to say .
In other news, "Deliver Us" from Prince of Egypt is totally stuck in my head. I've been going between it and "Bring Honor To Us All" all day. GET IT OUT GET IT OUT GET IT OUT
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think the main problem was the lack of moderation, yes. I often poke fun at Chris Lambertz, but...man, we needed Lambertz in here. If only to drop in every few posts to say .
In other news, "Deliver Us" from Prince of Egypt is totally stuck in my head. I've been going between it and "Bring Honor To Us All" all day. GET IT OUT GET IT OUT GET IT OUT
I had "Let My People Go" running through my head during the arguments, actually.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This thread has been pretty successfull at demonstrating that GW desperately needs a community manager. Another attempt by Ryan to stirr crap up in an attempt to have people hate each other in order to fuel the settlement conflict machine will destroy this community.
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women. "
Seems to be working as intended!
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CEO, Goblinworks
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@TEO Papaver - I think that's an unfounded complaint.
I did not start this thread. I didn't create the controversy. I didn't post private message contents out of context. I didn't take an action that had to be subsequently walked back. Our community manager (hired her today, btw) wouldn't do anything different, especially not on a hot-button topic like this.
We had a clear, consistent message from the day we announced the results of Phase I. Nothing subsequent was a result of us acting to cause any problems.
You don't like the fact that there is controversy? You haven't seen anything yet. This is the tip of the iceberg. You have to be prepared for this kind of dispute to be an ongoing part of life in this community. If it wasn't, it would mean we failed to make something people are passionate about. Trust me when I say this is going to seem tame compared to what happens when you can actually play the game.
Frankly there are people in this thread who have said things that they should know better than to say. I'm sure the silent majority who are reading, not posting, are forming opinions of who they'll be engaging with. You're not in a clubhouse here. This is all public.
So, here's my advice to Ryan (and I hope he's still listening): If you want a community to discuss something this...tricky, be prepared to fire the Invisibility Gun at will at the more hostile posts. Especially the sock puppets.
EDIT: Well, I'm pretty sure he's still listening.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have some questions:
1: If the Pax Community is so adamant that they are not the same guild, why is Pax Fidelis not in the Landrush 2?
2: When Pax was awarded a settlement in Landrush 1, did the entire Pax community put in input as to where the location chosen would be or did only 1 Division have any input or authority over what happened with the settlement?
3: If T7V or TEO were to want to open another settlement and "Guild" within our own communities and have them as part of the Landrush 2 as they have members who have always planned their own Guilds/CCs that won't work out of the currently aligned settlements, would the community and Pax see this as wrong?
4: If this same situation had happened to T7V or TEO, such as half of TEO splitting off with Andius within TEO for a different settlement location (had that situation gone down that way) would Pax or any of its divisions seen this as cheating?
5: Would Pax Golgotha honestly hold everyone who was confused, felt cheated, or just disagreed with them as enemies? What if the situation was reversed?
6: What should Pax, T7V and TEO do now that this standard has been set?
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Goblin Squad Member
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You don't like the fact that there is controversy? You haven't seen anything yet. This is the tip of the iceberg. You have to be prepared for this kind of dispute to be an ongoing part of life in this community. If it wasn't, it would mean we failed to make something people are passionate about. Trust me when I say this is going to seem tame compared to what happens when you can actually play the game.
Frankly there are people in this thread who have said things that they should know better than to say. I'm sure the silent majority who are reading, not posting, are forming opinions of who they'll be engaging with. You're not in a clubhouse here. This is all public.
Nihimon... are you listening?
To be technical, Fidelis is no longer part of Pax. Just saying. :P
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Goblin Squad Member
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This thread has been pretty successfull at demonstrating that GW desperately needs a community manager. Another attempt by Ryan to stirr crap up in an attempt to have people hate each other in order to fuel the settlement conflict machine will destroy this community.
I have to disagree. While I think a community manger will be an asset for the community, I do not understand how having the manager will change the goals of GW. If fueling a settlement conflict machine is GW's goal, I must assume a community manager, specialized in shaping and manipulating communities, will do a better job at it.
However, nor do I see or feel evidence of a settlement conflict machine at work. I see some upset people threatening others, but I am not one of them. Pax's interpretation of GW direction, even though different than mine, does not make me want to attack them or raze their settlements. Ryan's opinions posted here (and elsewhere) do not anger me. The "final" disposition of this thread does not push me to want to kill Pax characters. Quite the contrary in fact, I appreciate the ability to have this discussion (besides the few distractions) and have no doubt that if necessary, the different divisions of Pax and the various groups I belong to can stand together in common defense of the general community.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'll answer the questions I can.
I have some questions:
1: If the Pax Community is so adamant that they are not the same guild, why is Pax Fidelis not in the Landrush 2?
Pax Fidelis was created out of Pax Aeternum, a split in members. Most of Fidelis has votes with Aeternum, and it was agreed having them run would thus be against the spirit of the game.
2: When Pax was awarded a settlement in Landrush 1, did the entire Pax community put in input as to where the location chosen would be or did only 1 Division have any input or authority over what happened with the settlement?
No. The Leadership of Pax Aeternum chose where the settlement of Callambea would go.
3: If T7V or TEO were to want to open another settlement and "Guild" within our own communities and have them as part of the Landrush 2 as they have members who have always planned their own Guilds/CCs that won't work out of the currently aligned settlements, would the community and Pax see this as wrong?4: If this same situation had happened to T7V or TEO, such as half of TEO splitting off with Andius within TEO for a different settlement location (had that situation gone down that way) would Pax or any of its divisions seen this as cheating?
I believe I would have, yes. It is for precisely this reason Fidelis was not going for their own Settlement. I cannot speak for everyone else.
5: Would Pax Golgotha honestly hold everyone who was confused, felt cheated, or just disagreed with them as enemies? What if the situation was reversed?
I'm not in Golgotha, so cannot answer this one.
6: What should Pax, T7V and TEO do now that this standard has been set?
All three groups should continue recruiting for their camps and continue preparing for EE as they had been before all this went down.