Goblin Squad Member
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I formally request anyone who, despite the evidence, believes Golgotha is the same guild as Aeternum to bring forward their concerns.I was actually in the middle of composing a post questioning if it's even worthwhile to share our opinions if what's done is done. But if you're really interested in hearing this...
With all due respect to Pax, the existence of
All individuals are members of the [Pax] Community first and of a specific Guild or Division secondalong with the other elements of The Pax Gaming Charter that I previously pointed out...make it very difficult for me to view the 2 groups as separate.
The charter tips it over the line for me, in seeing Pax as Pax.
This is only my personal opinion.
As a gaming community, like anywhere else, we have our internal issues. So people within Pax Gaming that have issues with one another can't say, "Oh well Pax X has been around longer and done more than Pax Y!" It promotes equality among our guilds. It is a measure in place to quell and prevent internal drama and does not have any implication outside of the Pax Gaming Community.
Awesome. No, I wasn't talking about an OOC thing. An OOC conflict would be bad no matter what. The last thing we want is rifts between friends, but rifts between friends' characters tend to be the best kind.
I'm completely satisfied, in that case. As long as the two aren't gonna turn into auto-allies whenever someone pisses them off, there's not much to worry about. ;D
EDIT: Kinda reminds me of that Dork Tower comic where a unicorn, a paladin, a gnome, a "penumbra hulk", and a kobold are all united against the PCs...because the GM was too cheap to buy more miniatures.
"Oh, no! Now the dreaded Empty Box Monster is on its way! Trod, trod, trod!"
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Goblin Squad Member
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As a gaming community, like anywhere else, we have our internal issues. So people within Pax Gaming that have issues with one another can't say, "Oh well Pax X has been around longer and done more than Pax Y!" It promotes equality among our guilds. It is a measure in place to quell and prevent internal drama and does not have any implication outside of the Pax Gaming Community.
To be fair, you might be 100% right in this. I have no idea. I am judging the content of the Pax Charter by what's on the page, not adding what I think it might be used for. What's on the page tells a story of Pax is Pax.
I'll also add that for me, the fact that I see Pax as Pax right now doesn't mean that I'd vote "no" on that poll, if I even vote at all. I don't like the idea of punishing the old Golgotha members for joining Pax. They were going to have a settlement before, and punishing them for joining a gaming community seems wrong to me. I say that because I don't want my previous post to be interpreted as a rallying cry against Pax or anything of the sort. It was an answer to a specific question regarding how I view the Pax companies.I'll also add that I don't think any members of Pax are trying to game the system in any way or are trying to nefariously "get away" with something.
However, I do view Pax as Pax. And I further think someone having the opinion that Pax having 2 settlements is against the spirit of the rules or bad for the community, and who would vote no on that poll, has valid points to make and should not be shouted down, or be called fools & babies, or have their motives questioned.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As a gaming community, like anywhere else, we have our internal issues. So people within Pax Gaming that have issues with one another can't say, "Oh well Pax X has been around longer and done more than Pax Y!" It promotes equality among our guilds. It is a measure in place to quell and prevent internal drama and does not have any implication outside of the Pax Gaming Community.To be fair, you might be 100% right in this. I have no idea. I am judging the content of the Pax Charter by what's on the page, not adding what I think it might be used for. What's on the page tells a story of Pax is Pax.
I'll also add that for me, the fact that I see Pax as Pax right now doesn't mean that I'd vote "no" on that poll, if I even vote at all. I don't like the idea of punishing the old Golgotha members for joining Pax. They were going to have a settlement before, and punishing them for joining a gaming community seems wrong to me. I say that because I don't want my previous post to be interpreted as a rallying cry against Pax or anything of the sort. It was an answer to a specific question regarding how I view the Pax companies.I'll also add that I don't think any members of Pax are trying to game the system in any way or are trying to nefariously "get away" with something.
However, I do view Pax as Pax. And I further think someone having the opinion that Pax having 2 settlements is against the spirit of the rules or bad for the community, and who would vote no on that poll, has valid points to make and should not be shouted down, or be called fools & babies, or have their motives questioned.
I agree with what you say but one thing I would like to add. In any effort to bring about what is 'best' for the community we should never ignore what it will do any individual . We can't view even one person as expendable in our effort to have a good community , and many individuals would be hurt by this attempt to go back and undo things.
I am talking about trying to vote one settlement into oblivion or harass them into quitting.
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I have personally removed Grickin's vote from the Other category. Had I known such a category didn't exist, I never would have broken the rules and voted there. :|
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Goblin Squad Member
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There are a series of event that Pax have made that have lead to this impasse. I would have expected Nihimon to have made this argument, and he may have in the volume I some time skipped through. First some quotes:
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First discussion seems to be keep two settlements
There are sundry treaty negotiations between the nation of Aeternum and the Golgothan empire currently. Both however are big and vibrant communities aiming for eventually expanding into multi settlement kingdoms. Both will likely be settlement holders from the point that settlements are in game
Then the announcement that they are two nations under one Pax community
An announcement from the Nation of Aeternum and the Empire of Golgotha
Let it be known throughout the River Kingdoms that treaty negotiations between the Nation of Aeternum and the Golgothan Empire have been successful beyond our wildest dreams. These two great entities have reached agreements upon all points of trade and mutual defense. As of this day our two great nations become one nation under the rule of a high council. This new nation rising as it does on the shoulders of two great powers of the River Kingdoms shall be known as The Xeilian EmpireSigned on this day by
Scheherazade Ambassador of Pax Golgotha Pagan Ambassador of Pax Aeternum
Pagan Ambassador of Pax AeternumOk now from the OOC side of things
What is happening?
The Golgothan Empire has indicated a desire to become part of the larger Pax Gaming community. They will join Pax Gaming as a separate division from Pax Aeternum so there will be two Pax divisions aiming to form settlements within the River Kingdoms.
Ok now from the OOC side of things
What is happening?
The Golgothan Empire has indicated a desire to become part of the larger Pax Gaming community. They will join Pax Gaming as a separate division from Pax Aeternum so there will be two Pax divisions aiming to form settlements within the River Kingdoms.
Why two divisions and not join into one?
Pax Aeternum and Pax Golgotha have different aims in game and different cultures, one aims to be a lawful neutral trade empire much like the Venetians of the renaissance period, the other aims to be a military empire modeled loosely on the Roman empire. It was therefore felt that in order to keep these distinctive flavours it would be better to keep the two entities. Those two entities and their settlements will comprise to Empire of Xeilias (zeal-e-us or zeal-e-an).
What will happen to those companies wishing to join Golgotha?
Companies will join Golgotha in the same way as they do Aeternum and will have a choice to go down the sponsored company route or choose to go the whole hog and become full members of Pax Gaming. Of those currently looking to Golgotha for sponsorship, Maelstrom we are pleased to say have opted for full Pax Gaming membership and will be some of Golgotha's native CC's. The Bloody Hand will remain one of Golgotha's sponsored companies, though the leadership of The Bloody Hand and many of its members are opting for full Pax membership. The UnNamed Company remains a sponsored company of Callambea (Pax Aeternum), and will be treated appropriately by Golgotha. The Bloody Hand, an SCC of Golgotha will be treated in the same fashion as UNC by Callambea
This stipulates that while the seek two settlements, they are part of one community. Are they separate guilds? What does that mean? But we do observe the Golgotha players taking Pax into their alias.
As example, in December, this is first post of Pax MorbisThis presents to others that Golgotha is part of Pax. Apparently some Golgotha community actually signed into Pax int the first Land Rush poll.
So while Pax Aeternum and Pax Golgotha see them selves as separate, they both go by Pax leading the other observes to see them as Pax and Maelstrom took to FULL Pax membership.
Only when Pax got awarded a land site, did they publicly start saying (again) that no they were not the same and Golgotha is not part of Pax.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh to be clear, I highly suspect we are indeed being deliberately smeared. It just has no relevance to whether we did or did not misunderstand the spirit of the rules.
A key aspect of a "smear" is that the accusations are false. I did no such thing.
Ryan made three simple requests:
1. To the Guilds that won, don't try to get another Settlement in Phase 2;
2. To the Players that voted for the winning Guilds, don't vote for a different Settlement;
3. To the Players that didn't vote, but are joining one of the Guilds that won, don't vote for a different Settlement.
Pax is clearly a Guild for the purposes of Ryan's statement. Ryan said "You and I both know there are some of those Guilds who are immense - thousands, in some cases tens of thousands, of members." I certainly don't believe that every sub-division of one of these "big meta-game MMO Guilds" (like Pax Gaming) should take a spot in the Land Rush. But I was - and most of the community appeared to be - content to look the other way as Pax ignored Ryan's first request, even though I felt - and made clear early on - that the better choice would have been to be scrupulously honorable and forego that.
I don't know if anyone who voted for Pax Aeternum in the first Land Rush also voted for Pax Golgotha in this Land Rush, but I certainly hope Goblinworks doesn't have to waste time and effort checking that.
But the blatant and brazen attempt to justify thumbing your nose at the third request was a bridge too far for me. I stand by my accusation that it was dishonorable in the extreme. But even then, I was content to give you a face-saving exit with the laughable excuse that you actually believed that a throwaway comment from Lee Hammock on a totally unrelated topic would supersede a direct request from Ryan.
Ryan's right that moving a few votes isn't meaningful. I think that Pax has already crossed too many lines to have any hope of regaining their dignity or their reputation as something other than an organization that will seize any advantage they can, regardless of the impact on the game or the community, unless there's an explicit rule forbidding it.
I'm not here to smear Pax. I'm here to ask you to hold yourselves to a higher standard than "everything not forbidden is permitted". I'm asking you to honor the requests that Ryan makes of us, now and in the future. Or, at a minimum, if you're going to do these kinds of things, don't rub our faces in it by publicly proclaiming that you're entirely justified in doing them.
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...and while we're digging up resolved matters, here're my opinions about the Iraq War...
This stipulates that while the seek two settlements, they are part of one community.
And while we're revealing shocking secrets, here's mine:
I am a part of the UnNamed Company's community. I am also a part of T7V's community. 'Cause, y'know, we're Paizonians. And I guarantee you, when non-Paizo CCs start showing up, they're gonna be pointing out the same thing. "What the f$*% is up with the smurfs?" "Who's Teter?" "The frag is a kobold?" We're a community filled with inside jokes. So, perhaps, is Pax. That doesn't make all Pax groups one Guild. It just means they know each other.
EDIT: And Nihininja'd. Here we go again.
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Nah, I'm the red spy. See? Red!
Wait, no, that's blood.
*Falls over*
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I think that's a sentiment I can second, Lam.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That you, Nihimon, have taken it at face value without pursuing the source of its meaning among those who use it, even so far as to link our recruiting thread in your post so as to discredit me personally and The Empire of Xeilias by association, is quite possibly the lowest maneuver I have witnessed on these forums.You're dancing around technicalities the same way Rawn did, and making a false appeal for Ryan to do the very thing he said he would not do as a means of trying to insulate your Guild from the consequences of your actions. It doesn't matter if you're an officer or not, what matters is that Keovar's post makes very clear that it is standard policy for Pax Aeternum members to vote for Pax Golgotha, and that your guild feels justified in doing so.
I supported Golgotha getting a Settlement in the Land Rush, vocally and sincerely, before this thread was made and again as soon as I saw this thread. I still support Golgotha getting a Settlement, because of my personal knowledge of the history of that group, and because of my personal respect for some of its leaders.
I had also ignored the fact that the OP and a later post by TEO ArchAnjel both linked to your involvement, because I didn't think it mattered, and it certainly wasn't worth fighting over.
What has me seriously concerned right now is Pax's decision to blatantly flaunt the fact that they're utterly ignoring Ryan's restrictions, a fact made very clear by Keovar's post above.
Dude, there are no 'restrictions'. Mr. Dancey stated that the behaviour was going to be allowed, he just wishes people wouldn't do it, as an example to others coming in. That sort of lame 'policy' actually encourages goonswarm-type bozos to take advantage while conscientious people refrain, imho. Because 1) It is allowed 2) There is a perceived material advantage to something allowed. GW declared a second landrush under new rules, NOT Pax or whomever. Now you're going to say 'Ryan has stated numerous times whatever is possible is not permissible.' But then GW is going to take the money. There are going to be grey areas in a pvp sandbox, fine. It is also clear that the first landrush was held too early and this is an attempt to cover for it. I don't recognize the legitimacy of saying-'Don't do this; but we'll take the money of people who do.'
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm glad that this seems to be reaching a point of resolution and that Golgotha will still end up with a settlement. Just to clarify, are the Fidelis votes also being removed or only the Aeternum votes? In the thread on the Pax forums that seemed to spark this thread, it's mentioned a couple of times that Fidelis members should vote for Golgotha. It just seems a little strange to me considering the vast alignment difference; are members of Fidelis going to have Golgotha's settlement as their home until they can found their own settlement or will they be located at Callambea with Aeternum in the interim?
To reiterate, I'm glad that Golgotha was not forced to abandon their land rush spot. I personally think that Pax will bring a lot to PfO as a whole and that Golgotha's catering to evil and necromancy fills a necessary role in the community.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm glad that this seems to be reaching a point of resolution and that Golgotha will still end up with a settlement. Just to clarify, are the Fidelis votes also being removed or only the Aeternum votes? In the thread on the Pax forums that seemed to spark this thread, it's mentioned a couple of times that Fidelis members should vote for Golgotha. It just seems a little strange to me considering the vast alignment difference; are members of Fidelis going to have Golgotha's settlement as their home until they can found their own settlement or will they be located at Callambea with Aeternum in the interim?
To reiterate, I'm glad that Golgotha was not forced to abandon their land rush spot. I personally think that Pax will bring a lot to PfO as a whole and that Golgotha's catering to evil and necromancy fills a necessary role in the community.
As far as where Fidelis will end up, that would be up to Khas and their leadership. I know quite a few of them have votes in Aeternum from the first land rush, so they won't be voting for anyone. They may decide to reside in Callambea, they may decide to hook up with some other settlement.
I hope that helps.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...are the Fidelis votes also being removed...
According to Hobs's Prezi presentation, Fidelis is part of Callambea, so--fingers crossed--Aeternum's votes probably contain the Fidelis members.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Fidelis is also responsible for determining if it is Aeternum or not, and not participating if they are the same 'guild' as Aeternum. If Fidelis is distinct from Aeternum, and their members didn't vote for Aeternum during LR1, and aren't presently a member of Aeternum, then they are allowed to form a 'guild' and seek their own settlement during the current Land Rush.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Dude, there are no 'restrictions'. Mr. Dancey stated that the behaviour was going to be allowed, he just wishes people wouldn't do it, as an example to others coming in. That sort of lame 'policy' actually encourages goonswarm-type bozos to take advantage while conscientious people refrain, imho. Because 1) It is allowed 2) There is a perceived material advantage to something allowed. GW declared a second landrush under new rules, NOT Pax or whomever. Now you're going to say 'Ryan has stated numerous times whatever is possible is not permissible.' But then GW is going to take the money. There are going to be grey areas in a pvp sandbox, fine. It is also clear that the first landrush was held too early and this is an attempt to cover for it. I don't recognize the legitimacy of saying-'Don't do this; but we'll take the money of people who do.'
If the only 'restrictions' that you respect are the ones with enforceable penalties, then you are going to have a very bad time with a policy of being arbitrary and capricious.
Not everything that you can get away with is allowed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Fidelis is also responsible for determining if it is Aeternum or not, and not participating if they are the same 'guild' as Aeternum. If Fidelis is distinct from Aeternum, and their members didn't vote for Aeternum during LR1, and aren't presently a member of Aeternum, then they are allowed to form a 'guild' and seek their own settlement during the current Land Rush.
As of this moment, Fidelis' plans are to reside in Callambea. Because Callambea is an Aeternum settlement, all of our votes will go there. We are currently reviewing our placed votes to ensure that none ended up for Golgotha. They would be 0 to very few. If we find any, they will be changed.
The Land Rush is 10 weeks long. If Fidelis decides to look elsewhere for residence, as a Company, we may change any votes not used in LR 1 at that time. We are looking for a place with banana colored horses sporting neon purple manes and tails...
Thank You for your patience as we look into the matter and try to resolve any possible mistakes made from incorrect interpretation of the Land Rush 2 Guidelines.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thank You for your patience as we look into the matter and try to resolve any possible mistakes made from incorrect interpretation of the Land Rush 2 Guidelines.
Lol, I read this in a stereotypical female airplane attendant voice. Goes great with the cheesy smile your avatar has.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ryan said in Questions to the Developers Relevant to Companies and Settlements
The act of creating a Settlement creates a new entity separate from the company. The two entities then diverge as their members desire. Companies don't run Settlements.
I think we should move on to only referring to these first three settlements by their names: Brighthaven, Callambae, and Phaeros. "Guild" names are superfluous with respect to settlement leadership, IMO.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The Bloodrose Accord and Nihimon have made it clear that we are their enemy.
I want to be exceedingly clear here.
Nobody speaks for the Roseblood Accord.
Many speak as a part of it, but none for the entity as a whole, nor its constituent parts.
We, Audacity, have declared nobody as an enemy. We will uphold mutual benefit to the other members of the Accord, but it is in no way whatsoever beneficial for a company-for-hire to be declaring enemies, particularly not before the game has started.
The ONLY groups we are committed to take action against are those hurting the game by their actions or one who has deeply betrayed the Accord from within. Since there is no game to speak of as yet, and by definition no actions to take, we cannot see our way to moving against anyone.
Xeen, I hope you are willing to amend your statement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The Bloodrose Accord and Nihimon have made it clear that we are their enemy.I want to be exceedingly clear here.
Nobody speaks for the Roseblood Accord.
Many speak as a part of it, but none for the entity as a whole, nor its constituent parts.
We, Audacity, have declared nobody as an enemy. We will uphold mutual benefit to the other members of the Accord, but it is in no way whatsoever beneficial for a company-for-hire to be declaring enemies, particularly not before the game has started.
The ONLY groups we are committed to take action against are those hurting the game by their actions or one who has deeply betrayed the Accord from within. Since there is no game to speak of as yet, and by definition no actions to take, we cannot see our way to moving against anyone.
Xeen, I hope you are willing to amend your statement.
I will say this Darcnes, as it is friendly advice, take it as such. You should expect to be held accountable for the actions, attitudes, behavior, and temperament of the company you keep until your actions give reason to do otherwise. The good and the bad.
That point was made exceedingly clear by this community to both UNC and Aeternum while they were allied.
The enemies of your allies are likely to have their own understanding of "mutual benefit" and it is the only one that matters to them.
If you did not want to be treated as a member of the Roseblood Accord, then you should not have signed it. If you have signed it, accept the unforeseen consequences of your actions or do something to offset those consequences.
Stating that no one entity speaks for the whole of the Roseblood will not absolve any of its signatories from the consequences of the actions of their peers.
Until you take action to prove it is beneficial for people to think otherwise, even if beating it into them is that action, expect to face the same consequences your peers do.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For the sake of transparency, this post is to announce that we have removed the Aeturnum votes from Golgotha, and they are currently in the process of being moved to Aeturnum.
Golgotha's respect for Law is welcome news. It is difficult enough to seek balance between the alignments, but a chaotic lawful community would be... difficult.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For the sake of transparency, this post is to announce that we have removed the Aeturnum votes from Golgotha, and they are currently in the process of being moved to Aeturnum.
The willingness to make amendments and changes in order to help address the concerns raised have shifted my personal stance from neutral to supportive. I can cast a net to acquire the general feeling of the rest of TEO if you wish for an official organizational stance, but for now I simply speak as a member of the community. I personally appreciate the efforts taken and wish to express that.
Now then, can we get back to the fun anytime soon? :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Now then, can we get back to the fun anytime soon? :)This wasn't fun for you? We've been having a grand old time.
It is a blast seeing people act one way in public then another when they think no one is looking. ;) If anything it was interesting to see what happens when there is a clear lack of guidance and something is at stake.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I will throw a few smiley faces here to set the tone for this. :) :) :)
I have strong feelings about these points, but no hostility.
I will say this Darcnes, as it is friendly advice, take it as such. You should expect to be held accountable for the actions, attitudes, behavior, and temperament of the company you keep until your actions give reason to do otherwise. The good and the bad.
I have no issues with perception of us being colored by association with our allies. On the other hand, "expecting to be held accountable for the actions of the company we keep" is going too far.
Yes, perception will impact our relationships with others, but accountability goes way beyond that. I will not, for example, accept responsibility for someone having been killed, robbed, spoken to harshly, etc. that my company or I was not party to; nor would I accept any part of strained or broken relations between two other companies, however closely associated with one or both we may be.
That is not to say that I will not take steps to address concerns I may have about actions taken by my associates, just do not expect apologies for something not done by me or mine.
If you did not want to be treated as a member of the Roseblood Accord, then you should not have signed it. If you have signed it, accept the unforeseen consequences of your actions or do something to offset those consequences.
I do not see what this has to do with the statement that the Roseblood Accord has somehow declared enemies. As pointed out before, the Accord as a whole has no grievances thus far.
I fully expect some few to act like the group and the individual are one and the same, but I do not believe this will be business as usual. It is simply not sustainable to do so and continue turn a profit. This is, of course, not the same as viewing pieces as part of a whole, which is simply good strategic thinking.
We stand by our decision to join the Accord, we did not enter this arrangement blindly; neither are we going to be dragged into every petty argument that involves one of its members, regardless of who started it.
@Areks I appreciate your willingness to offer friendly advice. I respectfully disagree with your point of view.
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Goblin Squad Member
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While we certainly have the meta-game relationship thing happening, we are not all running around tagged <RA> in our names and I would be surprised if anyone in here is under the illusion that we are anything but groups that met each other on the road so-to-speak.
There was a lot of room for confusion with the PAX situation, and as evidenced by the changes recently made, some of it appears to have been internal.
The perception that the Roseblood Accord was enemies with anyone is why I stepped in and said something, as this perception was clearly based on the misunderstanding that anyone could declare enemies on behalf of the Accord. Now, this does nothing to address those who might feel themselves to be enemies of the Accord, we can do very little about that point of view.
There is a world of difference between us collectively denouncing a single group, and a single group feeling that they are at odds with our goals or our members.
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I personally can't ever imagine anything short of a pervasive disruptive player group force being denounced by the Roseblood Accord. The document isn't about drawing a line in the sand about our enemies, it's more about appropriate sportsmanship and working together to make the game into the best it can be for our members.
/2c
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Goblin Squad Member
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Is Pax Golgotha a separate guild and should they get a settlement?
"Is Pax one Guild, or Several?"
If it is one Guild, Golgatha should not be on the leaderboard.
The question should be "is Pax one guild, or several?"
If it is one guild, then no member of Pax, regardless of the history or timeline of that membership should vote for any guild but Pax Aeturnum.
Maybe this question deserves to be answered, keeping in mind this context:
You and I both know there are some of those Guilds who are immense - thousands, in some cases tens of thousands, of members. And some of them purport to be and occasionally actually are as chaotic as orks.
If you look at this situation from the outside, which is what I am doing, and what everyone else who comes to this game will do, it's very hard to say that Golgatha is a separate entity from Pax.
I think the answer is that Pax is one Guild, and I would ask Golgotha to withdraw from the Land Rush Leaderboard. The presence of both Pax Aeternum and Pax Golgotha (even if they changed their names) both using the exact same website will be a strong signal to any other mega-Guilds that it is perfectly acceptable to have multiple entries in the Land Rush, or at least that it's something they need to do in order to avoid being at a disadvantage.
I know some folks didn't like the fact that I spoke up in this thread already, and they'll like it even less that I'm reviving it after everything seems to have settled down.
The reason I'm doing this is because of how sick I felt when I started thinking that TEO and T7V should do the same thing Pax was doing (voting for allies so the votes weren't "wasted"). I hated that I was tempted to do that, knowing it was wrong.
I don't think this can be appropriately resolved any other way than Golgotha disbanding their Land Rush Guild and putting their votes to Pax Aeternum.
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Goblin Squad Member
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it's more about appropriate sportsmanship and working together to make the game into the best it can be for our members.
I would add "and everyone else" at the end of that. Yeah, you obviously aren't holding hands with your enemies but it's about the game environment in which we all play, not the specific battles we fight. That's how I view it at least.
Anyone assigning all this other baggage to it, I don't see it and as a signee, don't see it as anything more complicated than what I just described.|
Goblin Squad Member
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I think the answer is that Pax is one Guild, and I would ask Golgotha to withdraw from the Land Rush Leaderboard.
It's a VERY good thing that your asking here bears no real weight on anyone's actions in this situation.
The reason I'm doing this is because of how sick I felt when I started thinking that TEO and T7V should do the same thing Pax was doing (voting for allies so the votes weren't "wasted"). I hated that I was tempted to do that, knowing it was wrong.
Pax has since withdrawn those votes, so your request has no merit. Also, I honestly doubt the sincerity of this statement. There's likely several other more honest reasons that you're doing this, but I won't throw any accusations as to what I think they are. Lord knows, reading your posts, you and I don't and will never see eye to eye. But this goes quite a bit lower than that. You've entered the petty category.
I'm a member of the UnNamed Company. However, I'm also a member of Pax. For their World of Warcraft guild, where I play with a couple of my friends who are also there. I'm under the "Pax Mega-guild" umbrella. Should I then remove my vote from UNC? The obvious answer is no. The fact that I play with Pax under one banner does NOT mean I am in Aeternum, Golgotha or Fidelis.
All of that being said: Nihimon, I ask you to remove yourself from this discussion. You are not adding anything worthwhile. Your view is slanted by your position in your own guild, and anything else you say will be seen as a weak attempt to sidetrack opposition.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If there's any doubt, I want to reiterate something I said earlier:
I can understand why some folks who aren't familiar with the history might think that Pax is Pax is Pax, but I would hope that I've earned some small amount of trust from the community as a bit of PFO Historian, and I can personally attest to the history of the groups involved in Golgotha and that they had a very strong, independent presence prior to hooking up with Pax, and I have no doubt they wouldn't have joined Pax if they'd known it would disqualify them from getting a Settlement.A follow on question to that regards federations of guilds where several independent groups pledge to work together in-game. This is a bit of a corner-case but we would rather err on the side of engagement than in disengagement. So we are ok with federated guilds participating in Phase II, with the proviso that anyone who voted for a winning guild in Phase I is still ineligible to participate in Phase II. A "federated guild" is a separate organization of people organized primarily independently of a guild that won Phase I, not just a subset of a winning Phase I guild's members who want to have their own identity and take part in Phase II.This seems to very directly address the situation Golgotha is in. I don't see any reason they shouldn't pursue their own Settlement in the next phase of the Land Rush.
Huh...