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No update from ND is forthcoming. Since we'd need their approval to sell a pledge, we're hosed. You don't need anyone's approval to sell anything from this kickstarter if you sell it after its delivered to you. Its done quote often using ebay, etc. People used to buy extra copies of zombiecide to sell extra exclusives for some pretty nice $$$.
I understand Archon does not owe backers anything. They were a subcontractor who got royally screwed by there employer. I assume they have lawyers working on that. However. I believe Paizo does owe backers something as they convinced people to invest in the kickstarter despite there misgivings about ND. The solution with Archon is a nice start, but it should have been paired with an optional refund / trade credit, even if its discounted a % to account for Kickstarters cut for people who are really really not interested in un-assembled plastic minis. That isn't what the paid for and they should have some other option then Key Lime Pie, or starving.
Outside of the above concerns, I really, really hope this works and I am grateful to Paizo for making the effort on backers behalf to recover from Ninja's dastardly, though not unexpected, sneak attack. You would have been within your rights legally to go with a "Sorry, not our problem, talk to Ninja".
I'm curious, how is this going to work financially for Archon? How do they make money from this? Ninja Division has no money so can't be contributing anything to pay Archon for all new plastic minis for this can they? Archon supposedly were never paid for the original resin figures, threatened to destroy the remaining figures, which from a post above may have been misleading as to how many remaining there really were, so they are already in the hole financially. I would think any and all production costs, molding costs, material cost, design cost, shipping costs etc. for kickstarter backers will be at a loss. I see they are making a few new figures over and above the Kickstarter ones and will sell those retail, as well as overproducing the kickstarter figures for retail, which now will compete against the prepainted lines. Are they anticipating making enough off retail sales to cover the expense of the minis for backers as well as the money they've already lost? What happens if they can't cover that much expense and lost money? Do they just stop half way through? Also, it was mentioned Archon will be designing the figures, will this mean changes to already sculpted figures, or strictly for the new figures?
I meant that I understand it as human nature, not as good business. If you know that when you walk into a certain room, you're going to get slapped in the face, it can be hard to work up the courage to go in that room.So I understand why they choose to turtle up. Its takes Courage and the will to do what right. It takes Integrity to tell the truth. It takes respect, for the people whom were willing to trust in you and put there hard earned money into your project. It takes Honor to accept the responsibility for mistakes and an effort to fix them. I've not seen any of this from Ninja Division, and very little of it from Paizo. Even if the project does someday fulfill the actions of both parties will make it very hard for some people to want to give trust to either company, as well it should because you've both broken that trust and behaved dismissively, disrespectfully and uncommunicative during the entire process. What the two of you did is criminal and I despise the fact that you both know that no matter what you do, how many times you lie, how long you drag this out and how much money you defrauded people of there will never be any criminal repercussions because the law is designed to protect criminals that pull scams like this and cheat people of there money and screw the victims.
68 days since we last heard from Ninja Division. ND isn't going to post here... So if your going to do a countdown hows about you include one for a meaningful Paizo response?
Hey, they'll apparently be at Gen Con, and have shelled out just shy of 8k to get booth space. Hopefully they will be more talkative when they can't avoid contact with their backers? Asking security to remove you would probably be as talkative as they are willing to get. Though they will most likely have some nice flyers and a press release about Starfinder Battles you can look at. There's nothing magical about a con setting that would suddenly make them reverse there course of silence that's caused so much frustration with people and come clean.
It would most likely come down to what they knew when and if money from this KS was spent elsewhere. Kickstarter does have a TOS agreement creators and backers are bound by, a form of contract between them, which KS has no part of btw, that's how they avoid any legal complications from there failures. While refunds for failed projects were removed long ago, though many people fail to realize that and keep quoting the old ToS that no longer applies I believe the requirement that funding be for the project and used only on the project, not other projects. If the used money for other projects, or knew they would use money for other projects (the most likely scenario) in a "pyramid scheme" even intending to use profits from old projects to finish this one, that would put them in violation of the ToS, i.e. the contract between backers and creators and since they agreed to abide by the ToS when using the site that could be fraud.
To me if paizo had any confidence in ninja division they wouldn’t be arranging for someone else to also publish the line. I don’t think it’s enough to distinguish them as one line is their painted line and the other is not.I'll just point out that for years now, Pathfinder has had a prepainted plastic line from WizKids (Pathfinder Battles), a pre-primed plastic line from WizKids (Pathfinder Battles Deep Cuts), and an unpainted plastic line from Reaper (Pathfinder Bones). (Reaper also still has unpainted metal Pathfinder minis too, though they've shifted pretty hard to Bones and haven't introduced any new metals in a couple of years.) Even if Ninja Division had been sailing along flawlessly with a lively resin line, we would still be working with WizKids on Starfinder Battles. This is true. But would it not also be true that you could have forseen that Wizkids would eventually have enough time to do a starfinder mini line. Given the warnings given about ND's lack of performance do you think it might have made a difference and saved people money if they had known there was a good chance that eventually there'd be a Wizkids line? Especially if they had known it come out before the ND line? Also, you keep mentioning progress? How do you expect people to believe that when ND has shown no progress, refuses to engage backers, won't even clarify what happened to the minis Archon supposedly was set to destroy? The only progress I see is ND & Paizo getting one month closer to the statute of limitations on a fraud lawsuit or ND's license running out giving them an excuse to not finish and a way out. That's the excuse used on the Robotech kickstarter ND participated in (sabotaged) after years of lies about "progress". What is Paizo's priority here? Protecting Backers and seeing they get the rewards or refunds they deserve or Protecting Paizo's bottom line at the expense of the backers?
If the new Wizkids minis show up before there is a resolution for this, I don't know that I can put any more trust in Paizo.So Wizkids isn't allowed to produce minis until another company does? They're [Wizkids] are coming out next year, that's not a large time frame. Yes, wizkids can make Starfinder minis. BUT When people tell you not to trust Ninja Divisions and suggest repeatedly using wizkids instead during the kickstarter which paizo convinced doubtful people that they had there back and got them to pledge, only to find out it was really a fraudulent kickstarter as all evidence indicates ND knew they would not, could not finish the project on time, if at all, and were in serious financial issues, which led them to throw money for the kickstarter elsewhere (a violation of Kickstarters TOS, thereby fraudulent) its pretty classless, distasteful and incredibly insulting to come back AFTER you help screw the backers and tell them your going to put out the product many wanted, but only if there willing to spend more money while essentially telling everyone the same lies palladium told everyone when ND threw them under the bus. i.e. "I am still unable go into specifics (and still can't estimate when we will be able to do so), but we have seen a lot of progress in the last two weeks." I think the third time that lines been used in the last month, 2 month, or longer? And yet no evidence of progress, comments, feedback or even some sign of the slightest bit of attention and commitment by ND on this KS exists. I stand by my previous comment. This is nothign more then a distraction and stall until "Jazz Hands: Wizkids minis are in stores now"
2. Is there the possibility that Paizo even *can*, in some capacity, pursue an alternative course of action? Yes. In fact Paizo has already done so. See the posts & press release on Starfinder battles from Wizkids. Unfortunately that course involves people who've already been burned paying more money to another company to get minis for this game.
I'm just assuming the game plan from paizo is to stall, stall, stall some more and then JAZZ-HANDS look at the awesome new minis from Wizkids in stores now! and sweep this entire project under the rug.
Also, the Kingmaker thing is a book, which Paizo and Legendary Games are very good at making, while this is a miniatures project, which Ninja Division is very bad at making. I was under the impression Ninja Division doesn't actually make miniatures. Ninja Divisions runs Kickstarters, all the way back to Robotech tactics, then rely on other people to actually make the miniatures, etc. Form what I've seen of there history, again back to Robotech tactics is Ninja Division is really good at running a kickstarter and finding a patsy to give them an IP to ruin (Robotech, starfinder...) and lying through there teeth to get the patsy to agree but really bad at #1 - Correctly estimating the cost of the product, manufacture & shipping. #2 - Finding someone who is willing to manufacture the pieces at a loss because of #1. #3 - Telling the backers the truth, because of #1 & #2 #4 - Post Campaign communication with backers, because of #3. #5 - Taking responsibility for there actions and making things right with backers.
Might I ask WHO the update came from and WHAT efforts you took to ensure it wasn't completely inaccurate, you know like the sales pitch they gave you to get you to let them run this kickstarter? Ninja Division has a pretty bad track record, starting with Robotech tactics over 6 years ago. So I would hope you are doing due diligence on backers behalf and not simply believing anything that comes out of there mouth without at least 2 independently verifiable sources? I'd just like to know if this is a real, honest, good news report, or another one of the hollow, stall tactic promises we got on the Robotech tactics project from ND's partner there. Given the timing, right when you launch a new crowd funding project which negative publicity could kill, I hope you'll forgive my suspicions.
I mean, what proof do we have that anything but the prepaints even have ND Sculpts?I've received half a dozen ND unpainted minis. From memory three were the same or similar to the prepainted variety, but three were not. "Half a dozen" vs. the total number of mini's that were supposed to shipped, only 3 of which were different than the prepaints is still essentially "nothing but the prepaints were done"
I also have a fairly good success rate, though almost all are late to some degree, many to the point I have lost any interest in the product by the time it arrives over a year late. But the failures have for the most part been truly expensive and more often then not seem to be the result of sheer incompetence on the part of the creators. The bigger concern to me is that while the 1st few failures were creators new to Kickstarter, I'm seeing more established companies failing because they have fundamental issues with there company and how they execute work resulting in losses on most of there kickstarters that they keep kicking down the road hoping the next kickstarter makes them money and they can get back on top, only to eventually implode leaving the last group of backers totally screwed.
I have proof that these guys ARE trying, and some of that is encouraging. I don't want to say more than that, but I do want you guys to know and understand that much at least. I can prove I've been trying to lose weight for the last 6 months but the scale in my bathroom says I've gained 3 pounds. Ninja Division and Palladium "tried" to deliver wave 2 of Robotech tactics (well, Palladum tried, Ninja Division bailed in the first few months after they got paid) for 5 years before admitting it was never happening Until ND actually ships mini's to backers they can say they are "trying" all they want and it means absolutely nothing to backers. Backers deserve less "try" and more "do". I also find it interesting after reports the mini's Archon had already produced being scheduled for destruction I've yet to see word of what actually happened, were they in fact destroyed? If not, when will they ship? If they have, how is ND "trying" to overcome that further deficit? Paying Archon for minis already made and shipping them when ND is broke is bad enough. Paying archon for destroyed mini's, contracting to a new company to manufacture those same minis and paying them on top of what archons owed and then shipping is far is even worse.
This is an open call for paizo to comment on ownership of the production files and if or why they cannot release them to backers Keep in mind from Paizo's point of view based on earlier comments they have no legal responsibility to the backers. The kickstarter was done by Ninja Division under license, not by Paizo. Also, the files in question would be set up for resin molding, not 3d printing, and could very well not work without considerable man hours of tweaking to make them printable. Just looking at the pictures from the kickstarter I see a lot of rifles , limbs, snakey tendrils, etc. that would be unprintable without supports or tweaks and some details that look to be too fine for a FDM printer. The best bet would still be to somehow force Ninja Division and Archon to finish the project and get backers the mini's they bought.
Has anyone seen any updates from Archon since the fiscal quarter ended this past weekend? If you mean did they post a pic of all the starcraft mini's they supposedly have done getting tossed into the garbage, no. I am also curious if that happened or was just a negotiating tactic they used.
When Paizo was informed of ND's history of poor handling, delays, production issues and inabilities to fulfill previous kickstarters during the kickstarter Paizo doubled down and reassured everyone that ND could be trusted and backers would get what they pledged for. I don't think its unfair to ask Paizo to explain why they felt so strongly about ND's ability to fulfill this KS, whats being done to honor the KS and how Paizo is going to get backers what they pledged for as per there reassurances during the kickstarter. I strongly doubt the difficulty in answering that is due to backers requests for information or anything else happening in this thread, but rather Paizo not having a plan in place to back up there reassurances and promises and can't come up with one in light of ND's spectacular failure that doesn't cost them more money then they are willing to spend to make this right. As to weather its Paizo's responsibility to make this right in my mind is based on weather Paizo's reassurances and promises were what tipped a backer into making a pledge in spite of ND's reputation.
Ninja Division may not be able to sue for breach of NDA, but Paizo setting the precedent of breaking contracts would be very poorly viewed in the eyes of their current and future partners. Given the provocation by Ninja Division I wouldn't want Paizo to work with a company that took offense at them "breaking contract" when it seems clear that Ninja Division deliberately entered into said contract fraudulently with the intention to screw Paizo from the get go.
While I agree, the simple fact is there will most likely never be as much information as backers want as ultimately it must come from Ninja Division and they are not likely to ever admit they flat out intended to rip Paizo, Archon and the backers off and anything less then such an admission would not be accepted by many people.I think a statement from Erik/Higher Ups(tm) on what evidence he had that ND would be able to deliver after many red flags were brought up would appease most of the masses. The fact that most of us feel cheated/lead astray by the Paizo heads vouching for them despite evidence proving otherwise is really (from what I see) is the chief complaint. Fair point. I'm assuming at this point since we have not seen that it will not be forthcoming. I'm sure the excuse will be "NDA" or somesuch. I just wonder sometimes why and how an NDA or contract applies when you're dealing with a company Like Ninja Division, who apparently deliberately set Paizo up and is costing them sales & damaging they're reputation. At what point does Paizo & especially its CS reps have to stop taking it on the chin for a company who certainly looks like they deliberately intended to stab them in the back from the start? Because if that's what "THE LAW" requires of them then there is something seriously wrong with "THE LAW"
As I mentioned in my previous post, customer service does not have the power to say anything beyond what Sara has posted. Which you just said you don't want to hear. Likewise, as I mentioned above, we have been making sure this thread stays visible to the company higher ups. Despite your assumption of 10 minutes, you have no idea how much time and energy myself or my colleagues have put into doing so.Maybe with access to more information people wouldn't be left with a blank space for their minds to spin theories out on? While I agree, the simple fact is there will most likely never be as much information as backers want as ultimately it must come from Ninja Division and they are not likely to ever admit they flat out intended to rip Paizo, Archon and the backers off and anything less then such an admission would not be accepted by many people.
Of course, the longer it goes without official comment the more likely it is we’ll try and “fill in the gaps” from our position of relative ignorance. This is probably the biggest problem with this situation. People spent a lot of money, have nothing to show for it and the people responsible, weather it be ND, Paizo, Archon, aren't really giving backers much of a real explanation as to how this could have happened and what is being done to resolve it. I understand there are NDA's, contracts and such to consider, but at some point that needs to go out the window and honest answers need to be provided, not dodgy half truths and butt covering. All of the parties involved need to live up to there requirements as per the CURRENT KS tos (not the old ones that don't apply people keep reffering to when demanding refunds) "When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers. Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised. If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if: they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
To be fair, no one here has ordered these miniatures from Ninja Division. Many people pledged money to Ninja Division's Kickstarter to have miniatures made, but that is not the same thing. Until people stop treating Kickstarter like a store these woes will continue to happen. I have and will continue to dispute this point. backers did not pay to have the miniatures made, they paid to have them delivered. Stop trying to blame backers for ND's blatant misuse of Kicxkstarter as a pre-order service. Until CREATORS stop USING Kickstarter as a PRE-ORDER store these woes will continue to happen. That would be a more accurate statement.
Well, at least Archon will be destroying the minis in a couple weeks, so Paizo should be able to quit being vague then. Yeah, not seeing anything online to back this up, other then your post on the KS page. I get it your pissed, but if you are lying about this to generate outrage to cause Paizo / ND / Archon damage you might actually be committing a crime. So maybe mention where you heard this as of yet unfounded rumor?
Well, at least Archon will be destroying the minis in a couple weeks, so Paizo should be able to quit being vague then. Where did you hear that? It sounds more like a negotiating tactic then an intelligent decision on Archons part. I would also think it could be illegal as those mini's were bought and paid for by backers and they have a legitimate claim to those minis. Its also an extremely bad move as far as PR is concerned. Destroying mini's KS backers have paid for could get them some extremely negative comments on any future kickstarters they are involved in. I'd certainly be a lot more reluctant to touch anything they are involved in if they pulled a move like that. Kind of like cutting your nose off to spite your face and all that.
I think this is the best description I've seen of how most of us feel and what we would like at a very minimum.
I will give you the same answer I've given before when this ahs come up. Please list other companies that have the capability & willingness do do said project and provide a letter from them verifying they have the capability and would have said yes if approached. Arguing that Paizo should have turned down ND's offer AT THE TIME WITHOUT KNOWING HOW BADLY IT WOULD TURN OUT, and gone to another, as of yet mythical company, because while people like you continue to spout off about how many there are, but no one has listed a single viable alternative is just nonsense. If you want anyone to take you seriously you need to back up your claim as to the existence of these mythical companies that would have jumped at the chance to provide minis.
James - Unfortunately Paizo has more then just itself & the backers to contend with. There is ND, who has a license which gives them certain rights and Paizo can not just simply walk in a revoke those rights and do whatever they want to fix this. There is Archon, who most likely has a contract with ND and not Paizo, so Paizo can not simply walk in and toss them a bunch of money. They need to go through or work with ND. There may be a distribution partner, who may have a contract with ND or Archon or both and not Paizo. There is also precedent here. Paizo deals with a lot of 3rd party vendors and more and more they use Kickstarter. How does Paizo step in to provide rewards without putting themselves in a position of becoming responsible for every single kickstarter for a Paizo brand product? Or do they just not allow anyone ever to use kickstarter because of the liability which cuts off some 3rd party providers from the ability to make there products a reality? As much as everyone would love for this to be simple, quick, easy to fix, its not.
Palladium Books said the same thing after ND put them in a bind for 5 years before admitting it was all a lie. A project with the Mini's made (as per Archon) but not delivered because ND spent the money on something else and can't pay Archon is not "delayed". Its "failed" until someone comes in and hands ND more money (Paizo?).
I think they're haggling with Archon Studios to try and get the Starfinder Minis already manufactured out of Ninja Division's custody."does not put backers' prospects of receiving miniatures from Ninja Division's kickstarter campaign at further risk. "A fine sentiment but I'm not sure how our chances of receiving any figures can drop below 0%. I would assume getting them would be easy, just pay archon for the mini's. I imagine the haggling is over how much that would cost and who's going to pay it. Then once they get them there's shipping to contend with.
Silas The big issue with ND's kickstarter is that Paizo let it be ND's kickstarter, which meant ND was paid up front and got to spend the $$$ on whatever they wanted. I don't think any of your precautions would have helped with that. I suspect using all of the licensee disclaimers as you suggest would have just backfired as people would have backed anyways when Paizo came out in support of ND the way they did and Paizo using that language to tell everyone its all on ND would have likely just made backers even angrier and feeling like Paizo always planned to let ND scam them and then use the language as a cop out. The money should have gone to Paizo who would then pay Archon up front and ND getting performance based pay, they design X # of mini's and they get paid X $$$. The fact that ND most likely wouldn't have worked under those arrangements as they wouldn't have been able to use the money to finance other projects at Paizo & the Starfinder backers expense would have been the final clue Paizo needed to realize this was really nothing more then a scam pulled on them and the backers by ND.
It looks to me like Archon is taking heat on there own kickstarters and is promising to throw Starfinder Mini backers a bone to try and avoid fallout from Ninja Divisions actions.
In that light, does that not make them indictable for accessory to fraud should the nd investigations go ahead since they both helped sell the scam and profited from it?Repeat after me: Paizo is NOT LIABLE for Ninja Divisions problems. Correct, I don't believe Paizo did anything illegal or fraudulent (though the boats still out on Ninja Division in that regard) but I do believe Paizo is liable to backers as in they need to make every reasonable effort, even if it costs them some money, to come to a satisfactory resolution for the backers but not in the sense anyone could, or should take them to court.
Repeat after me: Paizo is NOT LIABLE for Ninja Divisions problems. I've had this discussion previously. Paizo became liable when, despite warnings to the contrary, they reassured backers that they had investigated those concerns and ND would not have any issues and fulfill the kickstarter. Paizo didn't just hand a license over to ND, they SOLD the project to backers who knew better but went ahead anyways because they trusted Paizo's word.
I'm still waiting for one of the people who insists Paizo had lots of choices for manufacturers to come back with a list and a letter from each indicating they could have done it and would have done it had Paizo come to them.
How do you know that? Paizo hasn't been at all forthcoming in the decision making process? Maybe if they did, we could avoid a lot of this discussion. Palladium is not even a remotely fair comparison as there products have always been an extremely small niche, nothing close to the volume Paizo does. Palladium also caters to a "fanbois" player base who still love them to death despite robotech's failure and the new backers who only got into Palladium for that one kickstarter are meaningless to Kevin & Palladium as they would generate no future, long term revenue for them. Paizo on the other hand could see a long term loss of revenue if players not only bail on Starfinder, but Pathfinder as well.
It's a convenient story but literally an hour of diligence would've uncovered a litany of red flags and identified just how desperate and untrustworthy ND were. There's also a disconnect in that ND outsourced production to a different company, arguably one that had an even worse KS track record at the time but nonetheless a sign that the project was beyond ND's capacity. Also if its a business critical project, why would you not put safeguards in. It seems like Paizo was fine with taking a risk on the KS side as long as they could get the prepainted minis for retail on time.With ND's reputation and lack of bargaining power at the onset of the deal,Paizo needed minis for the launch of their new game. Everyone else turned them down. ND had an enormous amount of bargaining power there. But for many people, including from what I understand everyone outside of the US they have absolutely no mini's for the game despite paying quite a bit of money for them. Take a risk yes, but the entire burden of that risk should not have fallen on the backers shoulders.
With ND's reputation and lack of bargaining power at the onset of the deal,Paizo needed minis for the launch of their new game. Everyone else turned them down. ND had an enormous amount of bargaining power there. I agree, Paizo tried to make the best of a bad situation and it backfired on them. But I do have to wonder if Paizo would have partnered with ND and not taken extra precautions, such as paying in installments as work was done, instead of handing them all the cash at once if it had been Paizo's money at risk instead of backers money.
The update was just a very formal, well written way of saying the same thing that was said during the robotech project they worked on, for 4-5 years before they admitted failure. You got some of yer stuff, were working really, really hard on the rest and we'll get you your stuff someday. All that's missing is the "This is the Year of Robotech, err, Starfinder", "Waiting on Quotes from China", "Part count reduction" and "Its the Shippers fault for charging so much!"
Apology Accepted. Though I would much rather this had worked out and everyone was right and could tell us "I told you so" when they said we were just being paranoid and could trust Paizo to keep ND in line.
Its further complicated by the fact that the backers already bought and paid for those mini's BNW. Does Archon own the minis, or do the backers own the mini's? Is it legal for Archon to take the mini's the backers paid for, thereby "stealing" the minis the backers paid for to recover there own losses, leaving the backers hanging? In fact I have a question for Sara Marie to pass along. Is it even Legal for Paizo/ND/Archon to hold these talks without the backers having representation at those talks? Who speaks for the backers? After all, its the backers money that funded this. I mean when Paizo / Archon comes up with a deal it will most likely be geared to help Archon and Paizo first with the backers paying the price. According to the terms of Kickstarter backers have a legal contract with the parties involved, ND/Paizo/Archon. How are backers voices heard, how are they represented? Why are backers NOT part of the Non disclosure agreements? At what point does Paizo become completely liable for any damages backers suffer because they are keeping backers out of the discussion?
I'm going to be selling all my Paizo material, over $1000 worth and I will not be buying another thing from this company. Not only have they endorsed Ninja Division and assured us they would make sure they followed through, they are blatantly not making us customers a priority. This will probably be deleted because it speaks truth. I think its a little quick to condemn Paizo so readily. This is a legal issue involving a large amount of $$$ and multiple companies and multiple overlapping contracts. These kinds of things take months to resolve, not days or weeks. Given that I suspect 1 party in the agreement (Ninja Division) to be uncooperative and non-communicative this can't be easy. Form a post below it sounds like Paizo is communicating with the manufacturer (Archon) directly and trying to find a solution that's equitable to both companies. That sounds like they are following through to me. Given that any such agreement is likely to involve both companies losing money out of there own pockets I'd hardly call Paizo's actions "blatantly not making us customers a priority", that's a bit strong. Selling your stuff is your decision, but before you do so maybe take a deep breath?
HLO does what it's intended to do, within the limitations of cloud storage. It works the way it's intended to. So, yes, I'd say it's unfair to compare them to Bethesda (which delivered a buggy product) or Ninja Division (which, from what I've seen in the other threads about it, failed to deliver at all for most of their backers). LWD delivered on exactly what they said they'd do. Just because they're not offering the product you want doesn't mean they've done something wrong. The original posts about Starfinder support from Herolabs made no mention of an Online Only Subscription model. Of course those posts also mentioned it would be ready around release time, not months and months later. The first mention of a subscription service ( that I saw anyways) was well after Starfinder was released (and I had sunk a lot of money into it) so I do in fact consider what Hero labs did very similar to what ND did as I would NOT have bought into the system had Hero labs in fact been open and up front and not misled people about there intentions before the game released.
The company had been giving its backers updates — 132 of them — but “communication from a small group of backers has become increasingly vocal and hostile” and threatening, it said. Cadice told the Statesman that’s why the company stopped engaging with its customers.People tend to do this when they become convinced you're cheating them. It took me MONTHS before I became vocal, but I became vocal because nobody was talking to me. Wasn't me! I Swear! Not this project. I bailed because I knew how it would end and I didn't want to go down that rabbit hole again after Robotech. It is interesting that the guiltier the company is the more they blame the backers for the failure to communicate.
Follow up question, would you consider them as good as the pathfinder mini's done by wizkids? I haven't seen any myself but I know the pathfinder sets I've gotten have ranged from really nice for a low cost prepainted mini to really bad, but I've assumed that was due to sloppy paint obscuring details and never really considered just how good the molded figure was, pre-paint.
So basically the AG's for several states sent ND a letter asking them if they've committed fraud and got a "oh, no, we spent all the money on the game and are working round the clock to finish it" and that's good enough for them. I guess that means the AG will not do anything for backers. If the backers want a resolution they will need to sue. This is the tragic flaw of Kickstarter. Its a platform which only has one course of resolution when things go wrong, a lawsuit, but ensures each individual backers commitment is small enough so they won't sue. It comes down to weather Paizo has any sort of leverage over them or the willingness to spend there own money to complete the project. One question I have from people who have actually gotten stuff. Are the minis high enough quality, I've heard many are lumpy, bad, that you'd want a broke ND & paizo to finish them or another company to be brought in, presumably a better company, to finish?
Stay safe and take care guys. See you when you get back.
Couple of comments on previous posts: Amano - You're right, now one has stated you won't get your miniatures. Creators of failed kickstarters don't admit there failures, that would hinder there ability to run more kickstarters. I think its far more telling that no one is saying you WILL get your mini's or presenting any sort of plan or timeline for that to happen despite pressure from backers to do so. James Todd - Project creators have run afoul of AG's and been sued before, but NONE of that has ever gone back on Kickstarter. The ToS and "contract" you agree to when you sign up to use there site forces you to agree they are held harmless if a project fails. technarken - all questions I think we'd like to see answered, none of which I expect to be answered.
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Greetings, fellow seeker of adventure!
With this written missive, each of you has been summoned on important Pathfinder Society business by Sheila Heidmarch herself, and what fledgling explorer could resist such an enticing offer? Heidmarch Manor is located in the Alabaster District of Magnimar, not far from the city’s easternmost gate. Each of you is relatively new to the city, but the manor is well known, and easy to find. The estate grounds are surrounded by a stone wall, but the front gate hangs open as it always does during the day; visitors are always welcome to the manor, which has recently come to double as the first Pathfinder Lodge in Varisia. Upon arrival at the appointed time, a manservant apologetically asks each of you to wait in the foyer with the explanation that 'Venture Captain Heidmarch is finishing up a meeting with an unexpected visitor.' And so, you find yourselves with a few moments to get better acquainted until your hostess arrives.
Welcome players, let us now begin the discussion of character ideas! I'd love to hear your thoughts. We'll be using a 20 point buy for ability scores. Most Paizo published material is on the table for your use, although I dislike Summoners and would prefer not to GM one. I'm not crazy about the idea of Ninja or Samurai in this campaign, but if you really, really want to play one you might be able to talk me into it. If you are interested in a highly unusual race, please check with me first. Finally (at least until I remember something else), I'd prefer if all of the PCs were of a relatively good-ish alignment (or at least must be willing to play nicely with others).
Hi folks, circumstances in my career and personal life have opened up (finally) to allow me the time to run a game on these forums once more! I'd love to have a crack at GMing the newest AP...Shattered Star. It looks like something of a back-to-basics approach, and that appeals to me. For now, I want only expressions of potential player interest. To be honest, I haven't even yet worked out how I'll select my players. I may go first come first served, may choose based on prior pbp experience, or may even do a random selection. In any case, I don't prefer any character concepts now, because I'd rather select players first, and then create characters collaboratively. So no great time commitment required yet, just throw your hat in the ring. I'll mull things over for the next 2-3 days, and we'll go from there. Downloading and having a glance at the player's guide would probably be helpful, though. If you have questions, I'd love to hear them.
Do the RAW support this type of action? I have a pbp situation where a character wants to break the neck of a foe who has been magically put to sleep. Any thoughts?
Here we go! Character creation rules: -20 point buy
Have at it! 
Hi all, I have a player who wants to play as a werewolf PC in a new campaign I'm starting for 1st level evil characters. It's not a power grab, he has a great backstory and everything...but I'm struggling with ideas for how to customize the character's stats so he won't be overpowered. Anybody have ideas on how to accomplish this? Specifically, I'm wondering if anybody has done any 'Savage Species' style racial leveling for Pathfinder rules. Thanks!
The Kingdom of Talingarde is the most noble, virtuous, peaceful nation in the known world. This is the story of how you burned this insipid paradise to the ground. It’s only fair. They burned you first. They condemned you for your wicked deeds. They branded you. They shipped you to the worst prison in the kingdom. In three days, you die. In three days, the do-gooders pray they’ll be rid of you. They’ve given you three days. The fools, that’s more than you need to break out. And then, it will be their turn to face the fire. Hello all, I've been away from play by post for a while, due to some real life concerns, but I feel that now is the time to get a game started again. To that end, I am proposing to run a game using the Way of the Wicked campaign path from Fire Mountain Games. Yep, that's right, it's an adventure path designed specifically for evil characters! If you've ever wanted to play a wicked PC, this game will be right up your alley. I'm looking for 5 or 6 players who will be able to post once a day, on average. Characters will start at 1st level, and should be evil in alignment. Now, please note that LE or NE will be much more appropriate for this campaign, as the characters will still need to be able to work together toward a common goal, and the CE 'I'll do whatever I feel like'-type will likely break the campaign and ruin the fun. Please keep this in mind when submitting a concept. Yes, I'll be wanting character concepts, not statted out character sheets. This is not a first-come first-served process. If you're interested, please review the following background information, then post with answers to the following questions: Background:
Introduction Guilty. You are a lawbreaker – the worst of the worst. Too dangerous to live amongst the good people of Talingarde, they dragged you in chains before a magistrate and condemned you. They sent you to the worst prison in the land and there they forever marked you. They held you down and branded you with a runic F. You are forsaken. You won’t be at Branderscar Prison for long. Branderscar is only a holding pen. In three days – justice comes. In three days – everything ends. What a pity. If only there was a way out of this stinking rat-hole. If only there was a way to escape. If only… No. No one has ever escaped from Branderscar Prison. This is where your story ends. Or is it? What is Talingarde? Talingarde is the most virtuous, peaceful, noble nation in the world today. This land is ruled by King Markadian V called the Brave of House Darius. He has only one heir – the beautiful princess Bellinda. This benevolent monarchy is heavily intertwined with the Church of Mitra, the Shining Lord. You are from Talingarde. This is your home. You have lived here your entire life. And if they gave you half a chance, you would have your revenge on all of them. Who is Mitra? Mitra, the so-called Shining Lord, is the god of the sun, bravery, honor, justice, charity and other such pusillanimous rubbish. The Church of Mitra is the preeminent religion of Talingarde these days. The Knights of the Alerion, the elite warriors of Talingarde, are a Mitran order. The monks of St. Macarius, who travel the land healing the sick and the helping the needy, are also a Mitran order. The House of Darius, the royal family of Talingarde, are devout followers of Mitra. It wasn’t always this way. Before the Darians took over, Talingarde worshipped an entire pantheon of deities. Preeminent among those deities was Asmodeus, Prince of Hell, Lord of Ambition and Order. Now it is forbidden to worship Asmodeus. To do so is to be condemned. The Mitrans destroyed all the Asmodean temples and burned his books and priests. There are no followers of Asmodeus anymore in Talingarde – at least none who publicly acknowledge their devotion. Devout Mitrans will not say the name Asmodeus. He is simply “The Fallen” or “The Enemy”. How did they catch me? That is up to you. You must pick a crime (see the list provided below) that you were condemned for. They are only two requirements – you got caught and you really did it. It’s not surprising that the Talireans (the people of Talingarde) caught you, though. Talingarde is a fiercely lawful and good society. Crime (especially heinous crime like yours) is not tolerated.
Player Questions: 1. Do you have previous pbp experience as player and/or DM? If so, on Paizo's boards, or elsewhere? 2. Where do you live (specifically, in what time zone)? 3. How often can you expect to post (barring illness, vacation, etc.)? Character Questions: 1. Who are you? (Name, race, class) 2. What do you look like? 3. How would you describe your personality? 4. What crime have you committed to cause your incarceration in Branderscar Prison? (Note that your choice will convey a mechanical benefit, but I want the initial decision based on role-playing and background concerns, not the potential benefit. If you'd like more fluff about any of the following options, feel free to ask. Note also, the omission of crimes like rape, sexual assault, child abuse, and the like. The exclusion of acts of this nature is deliberate, and not open for negotiation.)
Suggested Crimes:
Arson Attempted Murder Blasphemy Consorting with Dark Powers (Witchcraft) Desecration Desertion Dueling Unto Death Extortion Forgery Fraud Grave Robbery Heresy High Theft High Treason Kidnapping Murder Piracy Sedition Slave-Taking Slave Trading Finally, some notes about character creation: Again, I'm not looking for a character sheet right now, but someone will invariably ask for planning purposes. -Level one PCs
Recruiting will remain open until Saturday March 10th. Please let me know if you have any questions. 
It's early in the morning, the sun only just rising over the top of the thick jungle canopy...and it's already hot as blazes. The brave volunteers have assembled before the hut of Anassi, Chologadi's ancestral chieftan. Crowds gather around for the expedition's send-off, as it seems nearly the whole village has turned out to witness the grand departure. Before you is arrayed the makings of a sizeable expedition...it seems the desperate villagers have spared no available resource in this effort to end the looming menace of the black cloud. Waiting for your instructions are five burly porters, five guards outfitted with spears and shortbows, two mules with their drivers, a wagon drawn by two additional mules, and a jungle guide. The guide steps forward to speak, "Hail, heroes of Chologandi! My name is Chongo. I offer my services to you willingly, for the sake of all the village. As do we all. I know much of the jungle and I can translate for you the ancient tongue of Madaro-Shanti. We know this mission may well be perilous, but also we know there is no choice. For if nothing is done, the village is sure to be ruined. We must discover the source of this darkness, and put it to a halt. We await only your signal to depart." The other members of the expedition nod in agreement, albeit nervously. Chief Anassi stands nearby, beaming with pride at this good showing from his people.
Can any of you rules gurus out there give me some help with these questions from a player in a play by post game? Thanks so much! --------------------------------------------------- A large part of Jack's design calls for him to be making a lot of use [perhaps even abuse :-)] of the quickdraw feat so that he can seamlessly switch back and forth between ranged attacks using thrown weapons and melee combat. Part of that tactic will be that more often than not before a fight begins (and even sometimes during a fight) Jack will not have a weapon "ready". He will simply be waiting to see what tactical situation arises and using quickdraw to get whatever weapon he thinks will work best into action. With that sort of scenario in mind I have two questions for the GM. a) So Jack is standing there with no "ready" weapon waiting to see what develops, and a bad guy runs past him. Can Jack make an attack of opportunity using quickdraw to get a melee weapon out and pound the bad guy with? Or does Jack need to have had the weapon "ready" beforehand? Regardless, once Jack does have the weapon out, he would have to wait until it was his turn to take a move action to sheath it again if that's what he wanted to do. b) What about readied actions? Could Jack "ready" an "action" to quickdraw (free action) and then throw a chakram (standard action) at somebody? Or would he have to have the chakram out and "ready" in his hand before he could "ready" the standard action to throw it?
Here we go, discussion time! Welcome to the game officially and all that. I'll have character creation rules up in a bit, meanwhile, please pop in and say hello. 
Greeting intrepid adventurers! I am looking for six players to take part in a short pbp adventure, The Jungle Ruins of Madaro-Shanti, by Frog God Games. This is an adventure that combines a dangerous dungeon crawl with a bit of jungle exploration. As with most of the stuff from Necromacer/Frog God, the adventure is also rather challenging, and could prove deadly to those who charge into every situation heedlessly. At this time, I am seeking concepts only, for 6th level PCs. Please read the player background info below, then take some time to think through your answers to the questions that follow (with thanks to GMT, from whom I swiped the idea). This selection process will not be first-come, first-served. I will hold positions open for three days, then select the six players I like the most. I'll be looking particularly for interesting personalities, thematically-appropriate concepts, well-written ideas, and to a lesser extent, party balance. Material from the Pathfinder core rulebook, Advanced Player's Guide, and Ultimate Magic is available for character creation. Other sources may be approved also, please ask me first. The campaign world is a generic homebrew, not Golarion, so you may invent details as you see fit. Play by post experience is helpful, but not strictly required. Interested? Read on! Player Background:
The port city of Chologadi lies in the tropical southern lands,
on the perilous coastline of a dark, jungle-shrouded continent. It is a town of explorers, trappers, and traders, making tenuous alliances with the civilized tribes of the region, but also forced to battle off raids by savages and cannibals, who inhabit the region in hordes. In recent weeks, a new threat has appeared to endanger the town’s precarious existence on these dangerous coasts. Within the jungle, trappers and hunters have encountered a spreading pall of black clouds and roiling fog, a terrible phenomenon that causes death and rot as it slowly expands. The dark clouds are now only thirty miles from the town itself, and advancing at a rate of perhaps two miles in a day. The town’s livelihood has been brought to its knees; trading has virtually stopped, and there are no living animals left to hunt, for all are fleeing. The town leaders have offered great rewards to anyone who can discover the source of this threat and end it, for it is terribly clear what will happen to the town itself if the cloud should reach its walls. Thus far, however, no one who has taken up the challenge has returned from the tangled depths of the jungle. In a final attempt to combat the threat at its source, the town has outfitted everything that is needed for a full-scale expedition – all that is needed is a brave party of adventurers to lead it. Player Questions: 1. Do you have previous pbp experience as player and/or DM? If so, on Paizo's boards, or elsewhere? 2. Where do you live (specifically, in what time zone)? 3. How often can you expect to post (barring illness, vacation, etc.)? Character Questions: 1. Who are you, and why are you in Chologadi? 2. What do you look like? 3. How would you describe your personality? 4. Why will you join the expedition into the jungle, and what skills do you offer to help ensure its success?
It is spring of the year 500 A.O.V. (After Our Victory). Seven years after the end of the Fourth Yerasol War, the shipyards in Flint have completed the first Risuri warship powered solely by steam engine, not sail. Your monarch, King Aodhan, has come to Flint to witness the official launch of this mighty vessel. Woodenhulled but with a heart and skin of iron, the Royal Naval Ship Coaltongue will act as a deterrent against future aggression from Risur’s enemy across the sea, the nation of Danor. The Royal Homeland Constabulary has been called upon to provide security, and you have spent the past several weeks working to make sure this event goes off without a hitch—canvassing the docks, performing background checks on the guest list, coordinating with the local police to set up a perimeter around the royal docks, and following various directives of your superiors. Now, as a warm breeze off the sea mingles the scents of elaborate floral decorations with the pervasive coal soot that always hovers over Flint, you’re at the first of two checkpoints, working with Flint police to let in a crowd of local citizens who just want to line the streets and cheer their king. There are thousands of residents now assembled in the Royal Square, hoping to witness the momentous arrival of their monarch. Police officers will soon count off exactly 700 citizens who will be allowed access to the bridge that connects Royal Square to the Royal Shipyards. From there, they will be allowed into Fleet Square on the shipyard island so they can cheer as the carriages of the king and other dignitaries arrive. With only a half hour to go before the check point is to be opened, you recall the simple instruction of your direct superior, Assistant Chief Inspector Stover Delft...no one dangerous gets through! Jerrold:
You are somewhat distracted today, due to vivid memories of a vision you had the night before. You clearly remember seeing a crowd, a purple ribbon, the Beran city of Seobriga, an empty bed, a broken tin whistle, and a girl with a lisp singing the Risuri royal anthem.
Welcome players! Please let me know how I can be of assistance as your character sheets take shape.
Hello all, Well, as the thread title says, I'm curious if there are any potential players out there who may have had their interest piqued by EN Publishing's Zeitgeist adventure path? All that pulpy, steampunk-y goodness looks like fun to me, so I'd like to run the campaign as a pbp using the Pathfinder rules version. If you have little or no idea what this campaign's all about, there's a free player's guide you can download: HERE. It all seems very well done, if you're looking for a Pathfinder game that uses a setting other than Golarion. For now, I'm just looking to see if there are 4-6 people out there who'd be interested in playing. If that seems like you, give a shout. Of course, I'll happily entertain questions as well.
Hi all, I'm looking to get a Reaper mini painted to represent my new tabletop D&D character. Can anyone recommend a painting service that can do a single mini for me? Looking for a nice balance between quality and affordability. A relatively short turnaround time would also be a big plus. Any recommendations would be much appreciated. Thanks! 
Welcome to the discussion, players! As you work on your characters, please do create an alias and choose a suitable avatar to represent your PC. When characters are 100% done and ready for review, just let me know. Also, please let me know if you have any questions at all. I'm here to help. Looking forward to getting started.
Welcome to the discussion thread players! All righty, let's talk about character creation. Let's roll with... 20 point buy
Now, for Traits...everyone can take two. I'd like to recommend one of the two be a Campaign Trait from the Player's Guide, but that presupposes that everyone has access to said PG (which is not a free download, alas). So I suppose that begs the quick poll question, who does/doesn't have the player's guide? Please reply. If need be, maybe I can at least share the campaign trait info.
The late afternoon sun has just begin to set, as it beats down upon a dreary camel caravan trudging steadily through the scrublands of northern Katapesh. It's been more than a week now since the caravan set out from Solku, the last sign of civilization seen in what feels like weeks...if not longer. In the distant haze to the west, the PCs can just make out the immense outline of Pale Mountain looming over the horizon like a tombstone. Garavel, the no-nonsense major domo of the merchant princess Almah Roveshki, has assured the group that their rendezvous point draws near, but it's hard to get more than two or three words out of the man at any one time. He keeps to himself at the head of the group, leaving the others to spend their days and nights getting to know one another. It seems to be the only diversion from the endless miles of sere, packed earth and scraggly vegetation.
I apologize in advance if this seems to be a rudimentary question, but it's a bit confusing to me. If PCs are aware of an enemy coming, and wish to ready attack actions, can they use those actions as soon as the foes come within range, even if their initiative falls later than that of the enemies? Technically, the PCs readied the actions before initiative was even rolled. Then, once the enemies realized the PCs were there, we rolled INIT. So neither side is surprised. Since the PCs already readied actions, do they basically get a free action regardless of their initiative count? Thanks for any help!
Wow, the spate of cool recent Blog posts has got me even more jazzed up about Kingmaker than I was already (which is saying something)! I really want to play in a Kingmaker PBP. I think a 'sandbox' style campaign like this will lend itself very well to the format. So, anybody have plans to DM such an animal? I know, it's way early and all, but I can't be the only one stoked about the new AP, right? Right?
Welcome players! As I've alluded to elsewhere, I have selected each of you on the strength of your individual character submissions. What this means, however, is that the party is not necessarily optimized for balanced play. At this time, I invite each of you to introduce yourself to your fellow players, and share the character concept that got you accepted into the game. Please discuss whether the current group's composition is acceptable to you, or whether someone may be interested in switching to a different class. If no one wishes to switch, that is fine with me, as any deficiencies may be remedied in future level advancement, via the use of magical items, or through other means. If someone does express interest in making a change, I reserve the right of veto power. In any case, I believe we have a very strong group of players lined up, and I'm excited to see where this game will go. The details of character creation rules will go up later, after introductions have been made. Unfortunately, the insidious specter known as 'real life' has me a bit pressed for time today, but I will pop in and out as I am able. I have a lot more free time tomorrow. Have fun!
Good times, I've received my first character submission! The applicant raised a good point in his e-mail, and I thought I'd reply publicly for the benefit of all. I do realize that in running a pbp on these boards, it becomes difficult to find potential players who are completely unfamiliar with the adventures in question. Please be aware that I understand this, and simply expect players to work at keeping player knowledge separate from character knowledge. It's not a barrier to being accepted as a player. I trust that everyone knows the game is just more fun when people aren't taking active steps to spoil things. Anyhow...one submission. Who's next? :) Come on in, the water is fine!
Heya players, So, my Council of Thieves PbP is off and running successfully, and I find that I have the time and interest to launch a second Adventure Path game. But I'm having a hard time choosing which of the other four completed paths I'd like to run. So, I thought I'd open a discussion and see if there's a strong concensus to play in one more than the others. The contenders: Rise of the Runelords
Prospective players: Would you be interested in playing in a game based on one of these APs? Make your voice heard! If interested, you could rank them in order of preference, or vote only for one (or more than one). Consider this an informal survey of interest. (Or, if you'd be interested in playing in any of the above, feel free to say that too!) In anticipation of likely questions, let me add that the game would be played using PFRPG rules, and that player selection would be based on submission of a character concept, not on a first-come first-served basis. All right, let's hear from you.
Vizio's Tavern. It's easy enough to find, standing sadly on a corner of the eastern Rego Scripa. The tavern is commonplace in this part of Westcrown, the kind of place where merchant guards go to relax, gripe about their employers, and look for more work. Or at least, it was until several months ago, when the Vizio patriarch passed away, and the surviving family moved out of Westcrown to go live with kin in distant Corentyn. Today, Vizio's stands apparently empty, its windows grimy, or boarded up; its overhead sign in need of a fresh paint job. A wooden placard stands in one splintered window frame, the words 'Reopening Soon' scrawled upon it in dark paint. The afternoon sun in the sky above marks the time as nearly 4:00. The hour of Janiven's secret meeting is at hand.
And now that the player roster has been revealed, we should talk a bit more about character concepts. As you all will notice, there is no rogue that has been submitted from the six players accepted. With that in mind, if any of you should wish to change concepts, I'd have no problem discussing that. I will point out that Celestial Half-Porc's tiefling could be converted to a rogue without altering the concept too much. But, that's just a suggestion, not a requirement. Sniggevert, I'm hoping you'll go with your dwarf cleric of Abadar. far_wanderer, either of your martial concepts would be terrific. So, that would give us a lineup that looks sort of like this... MoFiddy - Paladin
So, a pretty good balance it appears to me. Finally, I wanted to say that if PsionicFox and Celestial Half-Porc want to tie their histories together and do the twin/sibling Yin-Yang thing, I'd be all for that. But, it's totally up to you. I am curious about the physical description Celestial has in mind for his Tiefling.
Greetings all! Some medical problems have kept me away from the pbp scene for a while, but now that I'm healthy again, I'd like to start a new play-by-post from scratch. I'd like to have a go at GMing the Council of Thieves AP, and I'll need 5-6 players to join me for the ride. For right now, I just want to collect the names of interested parties for about 4 days. On Monday, we'll take a look at how many people have expressed interest, and then find some fair way to whittle the pool down to a manageable size, whether that be via random draw, a short character concept, or some other criteria to be named later. I will mention that ideally, I'd like to see a mix of veteran and new players (everybody needs a shot at starting out sometime, after all)! Good candidates for the game will be those who are creative, flexible, able to play nicely with others, and participate regularly in moving the game forward. So come on, throw your name out there! It'll be fun. And, I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have, as well. Hope to hear from some of you soon. 
So...goblins, torbles, hellknight armigers. All well and good, but I'd like to throw some additional encounters at the heroes as they traipse through the sewers below the city. Anybody got any good ideas they want to share? Thanks.
Does anyone know how much slaves buy and sell for in Katapesh? I haven't seen this information anywhere (granted I don't have the Katapesh Guide, so it may be in there...it's on my shopping list, though!) This question just came up in my LoF game. Any help would be appreciated! 
Player Introduction Maybe you first heard the name in a tavern well after closing time, as two old adventurers, well past their prime, spoke of it in hushed tones. Maybe it was from your own mother, who swore she'd send you there when you misbehaved. Perhaps you read the name in an ancient tome of history and lore illuminated by flickering candlelight late at night as the wind howled outside. Wherever you first heard of the place, you have long heard tales of Dragon's Delve. A vast underground dungeon of labyrinths and catacombs, built perhaps by dwarves or perhaps by wizards--or maybe even dragons--Dragon's Delve is infamous among treasure-hunters and monster-slayers. Filled with deadly danger and ancient treasures, the dungeon offers both risk and reward in equal amounts, each growing more intense the deeper one goes. How much peril is worth risking for how much return? It's all up to those brave enough to try. The tales of Dragon's Delve teem with contradictions and unbelievable anecdotes of impossible encounters and bizarre monstrosities. And yet, some of it all must be true. Do demonic cultists really use Dragon's Delve as a secret base? Is there truly some kind of ambient magic seeping up through the place? Did wizards of old hoard away powerful artifacts in the dungeon's vaults? Do gateways to remote lands and even other planes of existence really lie somewhere in Dragon's Delve? Does the prince of all dragonkind really hold court in the deepest reaches of the subterranean stronghold? No one knows for certain, but those that could find the answers to even some of these questions, or learn even a few of the dungeon's other secrets, might earn for themselves notoriety and wealth beyond imagining. If they survive. Dragon's Delve lies in a remote corner of a long-forsaken wilderness that people once called the Duchy of Chordille. Yet a hundred years ago or more, the folk of the surrounding lands took up arms against Chordille. They razed the keep and slew the duke. It's hard now to find someone who knows the real reason why this happened. A few speak of evil intent on the part of the duke, who had plans for conquest. Others, however, say that the duke's actions were always benevolent, and that the conflict arose from misunderstanding, or perhaps deception on the part of some mysterious third party. All that is known for certain is that folks call that remote realm the Fallen Duchy. It boasts no ruler and little population. Wilderness reclaimed Chordille, and it is now a land of dangers. People in Brindenford, a small town just two miles to the north, claim that murderous humanoid creatures prowl those ruins. Goblins? Orcs? Worse? No one seems to know for sure, and eyewitness accounts are few, and always contradictory. They also claim that the place is both haunted and cursed. So many questions. So many secrets. If you dare to brave this ancient dungeon, go well equipped. Be ready for anything. Keep your eyes open, and search everywhere. Any passage or door you find could lead to wealth enough for you to retire. Or it could lead to certain doom. But that's what being an adventurer is all about, right? This isn't an undertaking that you'll finish in one foray or even a dozen. This is the challenge of a lifetime. As someone thrilled at the prospect of exploring the unknown, incredible challenges, and the promise of gold and magic, Dragon's Delve is exactly where you've always wanted to go.
Each of you thinks back to recent days, how you all met in the taproom of the Lost Shepherd Inn in Brindenford. For your own reasons, your own interests, you were drawn to this town due to its proximity to the renowned dungeon. Knowing that you stood a better chance of survival in a group, rather than on your own, you banded together with five others of like interest. Finally, with weapons sharpened, spells ready, equipment purchased, you set out to the ruins of the keep. The journey was uneventful, but the anticipation kept you moving at a brisk pace. And now, the darkness yawns open before you, beckoning you below...
Welcome players! Here are the rules for character creation: -D&D 3.5 (For a couple of reasons...more options available, and the fact that Beta will be obsolete after a short while. Also, I won't have to worry about conversions.) -Sources available...Core rules, plus most material from the 'Complete...' and 'Races of...' series, plus PHB2 and Spell Compendium. Anything else, please ask first. (I'll probably say yes, but I will also ask you to note the details on your character sheet). -1st Level Characters -25 point buy. -Max starting hp -Average starting gold. If you have any questions, please ask!
So, in honor of Paizo becoming the newest sponsor of Monte Cook's awesome new project, dungeonaday.com, I'm going to go ahead and pull the trigger on something I've been mulling over for a little while. Let's try to run this thing as a PbP. This will be a little different than some games, though, so please read the following carefully before replying. I don't want to see anybody posting here saying "I'd like to play if you still have room..." because that will only tell me you didn't read the rest of this. Okay then... First things first. This is essentially a giant dungeon crawl. Granted, it's Monte's dungeon crawl, which means its chock full of secrets, factions, history, and all sorts of coolness. But still...if you don't like spending a lot of time in the dungeon, this won't be your game. Second thing...I'd like the focus of the game to be on exploration, not combat. Oh, there will be combat aplenty. But, that's where I foresee the problems. This game will bog down in this format, I fear, if it turns into one long fight after another. So, my intent is to turn it instead into one short fight after another. I'm still mulling ideas over in my head on exactly how to do this, but I'd like players who are willing to allow me to change things up on the fly with various house rules and experimentation. Some of the things I'm considering...combat without battle maps, allowing taking 10 on attack rolls in lieu of rolling, abolishing the 5' step, and maybe monkeying around with initiative. Other things will surely come up as well, and I'd welcome players who want to help me with this experiment. So, in some regards, this game will be kind of a big PbP combat playtest. Simulationists need not apply. This is an old-school dungeon, and I mean that in the best possible way. If you worry a lot about where the monsters go to the bathroom, you're going to hate this. If you've been around the hobby awhile, and you have fond memories of places like the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth and White Plume Mountain (or you wish you did), you're the target audience. I'm really going to want people in on this who can post regularly. This will work best if we can keep it moving. By this point, people will want to know the ruleset. I could go with 3.5 or PF Beta, feel free to express your preference, if you have one. Okay, assuming I haven't scared everyone away...this game is not first come first served. I'll say it again, this game is not first come first served. Recruitment stays open for 48 hours. If I get 4-6 people wanting to play, we're good to go. Less than that, and I guess it won't happen. But if there are more than 6 who are interested, I will pick six. What's the criteria? Glad you asked. If you want to play, your price of admission is one character concept. Not a novella, just a paragraph or two. Give me race and class, a physical description, a personality, a very basic background. (Note that the game takes place in a generic campaign world, not Golarion...you can make up the details as you like.) I'll select up to six players based on this piece of writing, after the 48 hours have passed. I hope we can get this thing off the ground! In return for your efforts, I'll do my best to give you a great game. Now, who wants to go crawling in the dungeon?
You have been traveling together for more than a week on a dreary camel caravan from the town of Solku to an unknown location in the northern scrublands of Katapesh. The man who hired you is Garavel, the no-nonsense major domo of a merchant princess named Almah, who awaits you at your destination. The mysterious Pactmasters of Katapesh, masked rulers of this mercantile desert kingdom, desire to bring the abandoned battle market village of Kelmarane back into the economic fold. To this end, they recently assigned Almah the task of scouting out the village, clearing it of malign influence, and getting it working again. You are to serve as Almah’s agents in this affair. In the distant haze to the west, you can just make out the immense outline of Pale Mountain looming over the mid-evening horizon like a tombstone. The scorching heat by day, the bitter chill by night...the smell of the camels, the sere environment, the sore hindquarters from constantly riding...all of it has combined to make you wonder if it is even worthwhile to have signed on for this undertaking. But just then, Garavel's curiously emotionless voice intrudes on your thoughts. "Ah, at last. Our destination nears." As soon as the craggy tree appears over the next hill, it becomes obvious why it is called the Sultan’s Claw. With five immense, mostly leafless branches, the growth looks more like a giant skeletal talon than a thing of living wood.
Okay, we've got a playgroup formed! Welcome to... Larcifer
If you guys can just pop in and say hey to confirm that you still want your slot in the game, that would be helpful. Right, so let's start talking characters. I'm hoping that you guys will engage in some dialogue and make this a cooperative process. This way, we'll have a well balanced party, and also hopefully some diverse and interesting backgrounds. And, if anybody wants to have a shared b/g of any kind, that's also fine. So, we need first level PF Beta characters, 20 point ability score buy, max hp, average starting gold (not maximum!), and two traits (one campaign trait and one general trait). If you have any other 'nuts and bolts' type questions, just give a holler. Last thing, if you guys can also let me know who does/doesn't have the LoF player's guide PDF, that would be helpful. Let's roll. :)
Hi all! I'm going to go ahead and pick up a second pbp campaign to DM on these boards, and I'm just too darn enthused about the Legacy of Fire AP to wait any longer. I know the first installment isn't even available yet, but the advance copy of the Player's Guide (not to mention that the first adventure's author is Erik Mona), has sold me. Let's go ahead and get a group together now, and hopefully we'll be ready to roll as soon as Howl of the Carrion King hits. This will be PFRPG Beta rules, and I'm looking for 5 1st-level PCs (maybe 6 at most). 20 point buy for stats, no evil alignments, campaign trait selected from the LoF Player's Guide (if you don't have it, I can provide these...lack of PG should not be considered a barrier to playing). I anticipate, since this is a brand new AP, that there could be a lot of interest. If that's the case, I invite everyone who is interested to throw your hat in the ring, and I'll draw names randomly after 2-3 days, with everyone else on the alt list. It seems like the fairest way to handle things. If, for some reason, I don't get at least four people within a day, I'll just take the firstcomers. Let's do Katapesh right. Who's with me?
Marrala opened her eyes slowly as the first rays of dawn slanted through the window pane. Lying on the firm mattress in her small room in the East Shore inn known as Leftover's, she considered briefly rolling back over...but the smell of fresh baking bread called to her empty stomach. She rolled over, hungry and depressed, and considered the empty place beside her. Even after all this time, she still missed Calliope. She looked over at her odd curved blade, the falcata, and wondered how it would look decorated with the blood of Gaedren Lamm. If only she knew where the snake could be found. With a forlorn sigh, Marra resolved to move...to face another day. She reached down to pull on one of her boots...and stopped in surprise, noticing a small card lying on the wooden floor. It hadn't been there the night before, she was certain. She picked it up, examining the gilded edge and hand-painted front, depicting a burly man hard at work at a forge. Turning it over, she carefully read the words written on the back in a bold dark script. Her mind racing with grim determination, Marra dressed and gathered her weapons. Perhaps, if this could only be real, she would not be 'Lost' for much longer. In vengeance, she would find herself indeed.
Just then, a man's voice called from just outside the bedroom door. "Dearest, I've returned early, are you awake?" Pavo suppressed a curse under his breath. Hurriedly gathering his things, he slipped out the window, as the door began to open. With thoughts of Gaedren Lamm, Alexandria, and his father's welcoming approval racing through his head, Pavo disappeared, half-dressed, into the morning mist.
On the back, a bold hand had written something. Sorin's heart rate quickened, and his fingertips absently brushed over his scars as he considered the card. How had it come to be in his pocket? He had no idea, but he thought long and hard about it as pear juice dribbled down over his chin. He wondered if revenge could be so juicy and sweet.
The mere mention of Lamm's name brought a host of unwelcome memories flooding back into the former Shiver addict's brain...nights and days of pain, of degradation, of despair. With clenched teeth, Dorran's grip tightened once more upon the hilt of his sword. He marched forth from the barracks once more, all weariness forgotten.
With authority, Clandru slammed the book back down on the desk and rose to his feet. If this card could be believed, by Abadar, the time for justice was now at hand.
Our second player is Xaaon of Xen'Drik as Marra, a human fighter. Two down, three to go. :)
Hey all, I'm looking for five players who want to get in on a Curse of the Crimson Throne AP play by post. I know there are already a lot of games running this AP, but I'm hoping there are still some folks out there who'd like to give this a spin. I'm seeking a balanced party of first level PCs, with no evil alignments please. We'll use a 20 point ability score buy, with max hp and gold to get you started. It'll be a fun one, I promise. :) Who's on board?
Hey all, I was just wondering if anyone has firm plans to DM a Legacy of Fire AP play by post on these boards? -Mal
Okay, PC generation rules.... 1st level characters.
That should be about it, I think. Oh, and as for background? There's not much...the game will begin with the PCs aboard a ship, Fortune's Wind on journey from Seatil to Port Shaw. The reasons why are totally up to you. Go for it, and have fun! :)
Hello all! I'm interested in DMing a PbP using Sinister Adventures' Dark Vista campaign, The Razor Coast. Since that product has unfortunately not yet been released (we're waiting here, Mr. Logue!), I'd like to run a starter adventure using 'The Tale of the Seabear', a short adventure included in the 'Mysteries of the Razor Sea' Indulgence PDF. The game would serve to gather a group of players, and allow us to get a feel for the setting before starting the larger campaign. Disclaimer: This adventure has some unique features and will not be everyone's cup of tea. First of all, the characters have a really strong likelihood of dying, so you shouldn't make long-term plans for leveling up. :) Second, the adventure assumes that some things will happen to the characters that will cause them to...change. I don't want to spoil anything, but prospective players should be willing to give up some autonomy over their characters for the sake of the larger story. Control freaks need not apply. My goal overall is to establish a player base with this short one-shot, and then have the players create new characters when the Dark Vista is released (I think starting char. level for that campaign is fourth). Characters for this adventure should essentially be considered as disposable. So, if this sounds interesting, jump on in and offer up a character idea. Oh, and Pat o'the Ninth Power, I'll definitely hold a spot for you here if you want in, just as promised. For others, it won't necessarily be first-come first-served. If there's a large reponse, I'll probably draw names randomly. We'll need four 1st level PCs, ruleset will be 3.5. I'd like to try to stick mostly to core rules for these characters, since I'm not expecting them to stick around for too long. That's enough for now, feel free to jump in with any questions and ideas you may have. Thanks!
Andrea Greenholt lifts her head from praying in the shrine of Calistria. She has found herself here more and more frequently in the days following Jessena's murder. Frustrated by her inability to track down Gaedren Lamm, she has turned to the only thing that she has left...desperate hope in her gods. Blinking in the shrine's candlelight, the young half-elf notices something lying on the floor near her foot. It is a silver-gilt card, depicting a Unicorn with its single horn thrust through a green pear. Puzzled, Andrea flips the card over and reads the words written on the back side. Could this card be a sign from above in response to her faith? Or merely a cruel hoax? Only time would tell. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Tanrob of the Shriikirri Quah awakes in an alley along Korvosa's waterfront, and breathes in the heavy air ripe with the scents of fish, hemp, and tar. Cala raises her head next to him...the white wolf is his only faithful companion these days. He recalls the throes of his Shiver addiction, and realizes that while he may have no possessions...at least he has his life. Gathering himself to rise, Tanrob notices a card lying on the ground. Who could have left it there without waking Cala? The card is odd, depicting a great queen ant, wearing a gilded crown. On the back are written words in a bold, dark hand. Pocketing the card, Tanrob realizes this may just be his chance to get revenge on the man who poisoned his body and soul. It was time for a cleansing, a reckoning with Gaedren Lamm. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Acero sits in a tavern in the slums of Korvosa, thinking of Sara and the past he cannot recall. He scowls at the serving girl who comes to refill his mug, but he cannot help himself. Too many young girls remind him of his lost friend, and the man who took her away...Gaedren Lamm. Startled, Acero notices a card lying on the table near his arm. How did it get there? He picks it up and looks at the image of an angry mob. The card was fitting, and reflected his temper. Turning the card over, Acero is suddenly grateful for the time he spent learning to read. There is a message written on the back of the card. Acero has no way to know whether the message is genuine or not...but there's only one way to find out. The time for an uprising is indeed at hand. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chavali Toroda sits on the edge of a barrel, cleaning her fingernails with a dagger point. She is enjoying her new freedoms from family obligation...and wondering if this day will bring her any closer to the man who robbed her of her father, Gaedren Lamm. Suddenly, Chavali notices something shiny lying in the dirt by the barrel. Hopping down, she picks up something the is instantly familiar to her...a Harrow card. It's a nice one, with silver-gilt edge and hand-painted artwork depicting The Juggler. She ponders the card's traditional meaning...'Fate is on your side'...as she flips the card over and spies the writing on the back. Chavali flips the card over in her hand with dexterity as she begins to walk down the street. Perhaps fate truly is with her after all.
Okay players, welcome to the Out of Character discussion thread for the game. Let's start with character creation rules, so you can all get cracking on those character sheets. 1. First level PCs, generate ability scores using a 28 point buy. 2. Max hit points for first level. We'll use a fixed method of advancement for future level-ups. 3. AVERAGE (not maximum) gold by class to use for purchasing initial equipment. If you're not sure about the total, just ask and I'll let you know. Don't worry about clothing, it's assumed your character has some duds to wear. 4. Choose a trait from the CotCT player's guide, and please use it to tie the character's background to Gaedren Lamm. This is important, it's the inital hook by which the party will be formed. 5. Include a physical description and personality section in the character sheet. Also, please write up a background (it can be short) indicating why the character is in the city of Korvosa, and what the PC's relationship is to Gaedren Lamm. 6. Anything not from the core rules (online SRD) will need my approval. Okay, that should be enough to get you going. If you have any questions, just feel free to ask. Now, some guidelines for the game itself. 1. I'll handle all dice rolling. It just helps keep the game moving more quickly. 2. Please post in third person present tense. Example: 'Conan enters the inn,' would be correct. 'Conan entered the inn' or 'I enter the inn' would be incorrect. 3. For combat, just post what your character wants to do, and I will synthesize the actions into intiative order. If you can, offer conditional actions as well, in case your first stated action is invalidated or becomes too risky. (For example: 'Conan swings his broadsword at the nearest orc, unless he falls below 5 hit points. If that happens, he will instead take a 5' step to stand by the cleric.' That sort of thing. 4. Everybody play nice together, and let's have fun. It is assumed that the PCs are all of good or neutral alignment, and will not engage in sociopathic behaviors. Treasure and experience distribution will always be fair. Everything sound good? Okay, get cracking, and just give a shout if any questions arise. Thanks!
A little while back, I ran a PbP on these boards using the Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path. The game got off to a great start, and I had some terrific players. Unfortunately, some personal problems forced me to drop the game, but thankfully, those problems have now been resolved. I'm ready to DM again, but I think it best to start something new rather than try to reclaim my old game...which, I think, has continued without me as someone else jumped in to DM in my absence...I truly appreciate that, as it shows the quality and commitment of the people involved. :) Anyhow, I'm looking for interested players, and also suggestions as to what people would like me to run. I'm considering Curse of the Crimson Throne, although there are already several games using that AP. I also think Tower of the Last Baron, with its infiltration emphasis, might make for a really killer PbP. Having mentioned those two, I have all of the Pathfinder APs, as well as all of the GM/PF modules. So, I'm open to suggestions. I also would be willing to negotiate whether to run the game using 3.5 or Pathfinder Alpha rules. So, if interested persons have a preference, please speak up. I probably also wouldn't want to take players on a strictly first-come first-served basis. Any of my previous players would likely get priority consideration. Beyond that, good character concepts might win out...or, I might just throw the names in a hat and draw. We'll see how many speak up. That's enough from me for now, I look forward to hearing replies from interested people!
The whole town of Sandpoint has been abuzz for weeks in anticipation of the first day of autumn. Eager to put the tragedies of the Late Unpleasantness behind them, it seemed that one couldn't go anywhere in town without somebody talking about the Swallowtail Festival and the long-awaited consecration of the new cathedral. As the excitement built to a fever pitch, it seems almost impossible to believe that the day has finally arrived! The Swallowtail Festival begins promptly, as scheduled, on the first day of autumn with weather that is cool and clear. The square before the church quickly becomes crowded as locals and travelers arrive, and several merchant tents featuring food, clothes, local crafts, and souvenirs are there to meet them. The turnout for the opening speeches is quite respectable, and the four keynote speakers each deliver short but well-received welcomes to the festival. Mayor Deverin’s friendly attitude and excitement prove contagious as she welcomes visitors to town and jokes about how even Larz Rovanky, the local tanner (and notorious workaholic) managed to tear himself away from the tannery to attend, much to everyone’s but Larz’s amusement. Sheriff Hemlock brings the crowd down a bit with his dour mood, his reminder to be safe around the evening’s bonfire, and his request for a moment of silence to remember those who lost their lives in the fire that claimed the town’s previous church five years ago. Fortunately, Cyrdak Drokkus is more than up to the challenge of bringing the crowd’s mood back up with his rousing anecdotes as he delivers a not-completely-irreverent recap of the long process the town went through to finance and construct the new cathedral. He throws in a bit of self-promotion at the end, as is his wont, inviting everyone to stop by the Sandpoint Theater the following evening to check out his new production of “The Harpy’s Curse,” revealing that the lead role of Avisera the harpy queen will be played by none other than the famous Magnimarian diva Allishanda! Finally, Father Zantus steps up give a short speech thanking everyone for coming before declaring the Swallowtail Festival underway.
Players, here is the place to discuss character ideas, game rules, and any other OOC topics your little hearts desire! :)
Hello All, I'd love to give a go at running a Rise of the Runelords campaign. I realize there are already quite a few such games running here, but I'm hoping there are five dedicated people who would be interested in playing nonetheless. Characters would be created using a 28 point buy, maximum gold for first level. I'd prefer core rules only, just to keep things simpler. Also, I would grant each character one bonus feat from the RotRL Player's Guide for a good background. I should be able to post updates on a daly basis, so the game should move fairly quickly. Thanks, I hope to see some good players take interest!
My party's barbarian wants to lug the corpse of the rhagodessa from The Blue Nixie to the Taxidermist's Guildhall and have it stuffed as a trophy. Great idea, as he wants to join Zelkarune's Horns, and this would surely be a good way to get his foot in the door. But, here's where I'm stuck. Anybody have thoughts on how much it would cost him to get this beast stuffed and mounted? And, how long would the commission take, you think? I appreciate any ideas. Thanks!
So, I'm DM-ing a game in a play-by-post forum, and the party is in Jzadirune facing off against the pair of ragamoffyns. This a tense battle so far, and it could go either way. I want to make sure I'm handling it right. Thus, I have some questions for the rules gurus. 1. If a Ragamoffyn hits with a slam attack, can it grapple then on the same turn as a free action? Does it have to make a touch attack? Does it have to make an opposed grapple check to hold the opponent? Does it deal any additional damage with a grapple (above and beyond the initial slam damage? 2. Assuming it does grapple successfully, it can then Wrap its victim on the next round right? Is this move automatically successful? Is an opposed grapple check required? Assuming it is successful, can the victim do anything on his turn to escape being wrapped? (with an opposed grapple check or an Escape Artist check for example?) 3. If a victim gets dominated by the ragamoffyn, is there only one will save allowed, or can the character keep trying on successive turns? Can another PC try to pull the victim free from the ragamoffyn? 4. How does the asphyxiation ability fit into all this? When is this damage taken? Is it mandatory for the ragamoffyn to deal this damage (after all, its main goal is to capture a host, right? Not kill its victim...) I'd appreciate any help and advice, this is all threatening to make my head 'splode. Thanks!
Does the city of Sasserine have an established location in the world of Greyhawk? Somewhere in the holdings of the Sea Princes perhaps? If anyone has any information to share, I'd appreciate it.
Well, I'm gearing up to run the Savage Tide, and let me tell you, finding interested players has not been a problem! That's a good thing and all, but... It looks like I might wind up with as many as 7 players. Will a group of this size find the adventure(s) too easy? Will I have to do a lot of work to scale the encounters up? I'm assuming the AP is written for the D&D 3.x standard 4 PCs, although I could be wrong about that. Any advice from James or any of you other people in the know? Thanks!
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