On my monk I was going by memory so some details are fuzzy. I think it was closer to 26to28 self buffing to 32. 3 dex 3 wis 4 armor 2 def 2 nat 1 dodge. That comes to 25. I'm sure there was something more but it was a year ago.
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So let me get this straight:
We have:
1 highly optimized and effective character.
3 poorly optimized and ineffective characters.Are we supposed to be surprised that the optimized character is outshining them? Hell no, why would we be?
No it is:
1 optimized and effective character using a broken class3 poorly optimized and ineffective characters using CRB classes.
Yes, the player with the optimized character will always shine, just not to the unbalancing degree that an optimized synth can.
Suggestions of dominance, level drain, ect. are not helpful. Specifically targeting a player in encounters is terrible DMing and will quickly make the player unhappy. I have been in this situation before.
Instead talk to the player, lay out how his character is broken, point out it's banned from organized play, and let him rebuild his character from the ground up. Apologize for allowing the character in the first place because you didn't realize how broken it was. If desired develope a creative solution about why the player is leaving the group and heck possibly even pit the new party against the old PC.
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Ok, well your problem isn't the Synthesist it's your encounter design. Well beyond the 1 big monster flaw is the fact that your players have shown you that they all build themselves to excel vs. melee bruiser bad guys and you keep giving them those to fight. Change that, exploit that weakness they have all chosen and take your game in a whole new and broader direction.
My recommendation is to start using SWARMS and Summoned critters against your players for awhile.
Especially these:
HellWasp Swarms, Leech Swarms and Rot Grub Swarm
With several summoned/called semi-casters to back them up. Something like a few Elementals, Succubi, Mothman and/or Bralani Azata.
These are all major challenges for the entire party while exploiting the weaknesses the Synthesist archetype has.
All these creatures either ignore AC or targets touch AC, the swarms all inflict Ability damage or drain which an Eidolon cannot ever heal and the summoner doesn't have spells to fix (cleric does but they can't afford to load up on those) and they are also mostly immune to the damage type the party specializes in while the summons all function as force multipliers for each encounter.
Here is an example for you of a 3 session encounter that will challenge your entire party.
Location: Gold rush town on the coast within an old growth swamp.
Plot: BBEG attempting to destroy a burgeoning town for invading his swamp.
Encounters: Multiple swarm/vermin/summoned creature fights. Make at leeast one take place underwater.
BBEG: Versha the Vile, aWorm that Walks (Though I would change them from a conjurer to a Witch instead.)
The slog through the swamp puts the terrain as a environmental hazard that really changes how each fight goes and forces them to make significant changes to how they expect each encounter to go.
The change in opponent types pushes the Cleric into a primary role (giving them a chance to develop their character more) and forces the summoner to change tactics from melee powerhouse to secondary caster. The Monk gets vaulted to the point guard position since his AC and abilities make him harder to hit kill then any of the others (while letting you help him fix his character).
Finally the BBEG is a super unique type of opponent who can easily handle being focus fired by the party but will always have allies around to make the fight more interesting.
Do something like this for the next few sessions and see how it goes. If the synthesist lives you will have more tricks up your sleeve to handle it and your party will start building more rounded less one-trick pony characters. At the very least the change in player focus should put most of your players back on a more even level.
You could even use this as a campaign ending scenario and reboot it with all new characters to give you a chance to start fresh with a better understanding of what is in store for you as a GM of these players.
He also has near to 0 equipment other than an amulet of mighty fists +1, a cloak of resistance +2 and a belt of strenght +4
So I just noticed this: your Synthesist only has around 24,000gp in items. Part of what some DMs do not understand is that some classes are CRIPPLED by not having level appropriate gear, and some classes can just take it in stride.
The starting gold for a level 10 character is 62,000 gp and if the other characters do not have AT LEAST that amount of gold then YOU are partially the problem as to why the synthesist seems overpowered compared to the other characters.
If you go by the loot system of treasure per encounter as detailed in the game mastering section then your PCs should have MORE gold than the starting level gold.
Somewhere around
XP and gold to level up to next
KEY:
To go from current level to next level:(total xp gained to hit next level/total gold gained if all encounters are CR [current level] encounters)_XP for current level encounter/gold awarded by current level encounter
Level 1:_(8,000_______/5,200)_______400___/260
Level 2:_(12,000______/11,000)______600___/550
Level 3:_(24,000______/24,000)______800___/800
Level 4:_(36,000______/34,500)______1200__/1150
Level 5:_(56,000______/54,250)______1600__/1550
Level 6:_(84,000______/70,000)______2400__/2000
Level 7:_(120,000_____/97,500)______3200__/2600
Level 8:_(180,000_____/125,625)_____4800__/3350
Level 9:_(240,000_____/159,375)_____6400__/4250
Level 10:(380,000_____/215,729)_____9600__/5450
75,397 gp if they never wasted any and sold everything at half value.
If your other PCs do not have gear with the value of at least the starting level gold for their level then they are being crippled by your play-style in comparison to a character class that does not require gold to be powerful.
My current DM hasn't given us any gold since we received 900 gold after hitting level 2 just because I pointed this out and made it a point to them, and we are level 5 with a grand total of having around 1000 gold each.
I am not inhibited by this, but the other classes that are extremely dependent on gear, they are really feeling it.
So let me get this straight:
We have:
1 highly optimized and effective character.
3 poorly optimized and ineffective characters.Are we supposed to be surprised that the optimized character is outshining them? Hell no, why would we be?
No it is:
1 optimized and effective character using a broken class
3 poorly optimized and ineffective characters using CRB classes.Yes, the player with the optimized character will always shine, just not to the unbalancing degree that an optimized synth can.
We also possibly have 4 characters who are horribly under-geared, and the synthesist doesn't ~need~ a lot of gear to be effective while Mr. Dex Fighter is very dependent on how good his gear is.
This is one of the VERY FEW situations where, if it is the problem, then the DM is at fault for power inequality.
GIVE YOUR PCS THE DAMN MONEY THEY ARE ENTITLED TO! THE OFFICIAL RULES, with how they are built, GIVE MORE MONEY THAN STARTING GOLD FOR A REASON.
They all have their WBL except him[ . . . ]
Well then the issue isn't you then, glad to read.
We have all pretty much given you what you need to keep this summoner where he should be. The choice is yours to if you decide to take our collective advice to heart and deal with him.
Personally, I recommend outsiders, mostly because they all have DR and most of them have some sort of powerful ability.
My favorite for a party of 4 level 10 characters is 4 succubi. Vampiric Touch every round? Yes please.
DR? Yes Please.
Resistances? Yes please.
A FLY SPEED that can full withdraw when in danger? Yes please.
Vampiric Touch targeting TOUCH? Yes please.
The ability to seduce people and dominate people? Sounds fantastic.
I'd expect them to possibly defeat the party, leave them alive, and then force them to work with the succubi to cause some sort of atrocity that gives the heroes some infamy.
Who is the villain of your story?
What level is he?
Does he have a lot of money?
Has he showed up throughout the story as an interactable NPC for the PCs to talk to?
Has he showed up throughout the story as an enemy who has half-heartedly tried to kill these nuisance while some of his lower followers tried to actively kill them?
Is it the goal of the PCs to kill and defeat this guy?
More often than not the problem with campaigns and characters is less that characters are overpowered, and more that there isn't a unifying force keeping the fabric of the story together. If you don't have a main villain then you don't even have a campaign, period, full stop. Instead you just have a collection of episodic adventures that are linked together by virtue that it is a group of people working together--no one ever asked why they are working together, they just are.--
Get creative on the adversaries your group will face.
A gunslinger should be able to wreck him from distance. (Musket Master using double barreled musket with rapid reload etc)
A magus that uses weapon wand (true strike) to deliver huge shocking grasps.
Anti-Paladin to cut through DR and beat him down. (Hell, a LoH spec Paladin could win via attrition)
Don't have 1 creature for the group to fight. If that's what the normal encounter is, you're losing due to action economy. If you need info on that, there are good guides on how to build encounters available on the guides thread.
The Summoner (especially the Synthesist) is a class that requires no system mastery to be as effective as an optimized character. That's what you're seeing in your game.
Also:
* Anti-Magic Field should remove the Eidolon.
* The Eidolon has a big sign on its its head saying, hey, I'm an eidolon.
* The Eidolon has a finite amount of health. When it's run out, it poofs and you have a naked Summoner.
* Make a wizard that uses Illusions. (good suggestion from above)
* Wizard that summons (Suddenly the Eidolon has A LOT of creatures on him and he's got to burn actions to get rid of them. You don't need to worry about the damage, it's controlling the action economy).
* Counterspell wizard that locks down the Summoner.
* Dehabilitating attacks - staggered, stunned, dazes, slows etc. (snowball/Frostbite + Rime Spell from a Wizard and Magus).
* Use swarms. (Another good suggestion from above)
* Use monsters that target saving throws. That should equalize the disparity between the Summoner and the other players.
* Don't always fight in confined rooms. Be creative on where your fights are taking place.
* Dismissal to send the Eidolon away.
* Flying creatures.
Something I'm not sure on:
A Banishment Spec'd Wizard can dismiss summoned and called creatures. I can't remember if the Eidolon falls under that. If it does, banishment wizards would be something good to add to the arsenal.
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I'm going to come at this from a different angle:
You might try starting a new game, from first level, with only base character classes until your group gets a better handle on the rules. I'm saying this because at 10th level, no one in your group seems to know which magic items and spells can stack together, and that kind of mistake will completely break the game. It will be especially frustrating to you as the GM because the monsters and NPCs are designed assuming that the players are following those kinds of rules.
Another example of why I make this suggestion:
His feats include something to get -1 attack/+1 AC, power attack for low armor monsters
The "something" sounds like Combat Expertise, which requires a 13 Intelligence and scales up as your BAB increases (for a summoner, it should be -2/+2 at 10th level, -3/+3 at 11th). Power Attack requires a 13 Strength, and it scales the same way that Combat Expertise does (-2/+4 at 10, -3/+6 at 11).
With the stats you posted for the summoner, he can't take either of these feats. Did he take Power Attack on his eidolon? How high does an eidolon's Intelligence need to be to take feats? Does a synthesist's eidolon even get feats? (The synthesist summoner is a brain-meltingly complicated archetype. I don't even understand it well enough to decide whether I think it's broken.)
Also, both Combat Expertise and Power Attack are "on or off" in Pathfinder. Once he hits BAB 4, your summoner can't take a smaller penalty in exchange for the smaller benefit: it's always -2/+2. If your synthesist is using both Combat Expertise and Power Attack on the same round, he's taking a net -4 to hit.
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Back to your original question:
For the AC issue, as others have pointed out, you get around this by targeting touch AC and catching him flatfooted.
AC 40 (10 +3 dex, +2 deflection, +4 mage armor, +14 natural, +4 barkskin, +1 dodge, +2 shield)
His touch AC is only 16 (18, depending on the source of the shield bonus). Most spells go against touch AC, so this guy should be getting hit by most casters you throw at him.
If you catch him flat-footed with no buffs, his "walking around" AC is only 26.
This isn't "singling him out", either: this is how casters and ambush monsters are designed to work. Sure, casters usually target the tank first because he can do the most damage, but they also do it because they can ignore all that armor he's wearing.
Also, can you tell us where the shield bonus comes from? You didn't call out a shield in his equipment, and I don't know of any spells that give a +2 shield bonus. (The "Shield" spell is +4, with a short duration. "Shield of X" spells are actually deflection bonuses, and they do not stack with the--I'm assuming--ring of protection +2.)
Eh,I think the cries of "broken" are a little premature.
The synth is one of the easiest classes to optimize and simplest to run (once you've read and understood the faq, that is), which is one of the reasons I like it. One of our players has a lot of time commitments and isn't as familiar with the rules as the rest of us, but he can tell us what he wants, we figure it out, hand him an audited sheet, and he can rock the house. He never feels bored or useless and and always has something to contribute. As an aside, I find the master summoner similar - potent, always has something to contribute, and easy to run if other players help manage the horde of summoned critters and roll for them.
There are a lot of incredibly effective builds that come together at around 10th level and you seem to be looking at this one in a vacuum. You called out problems but honestly, build an invulnerable rager with the beast totem and see how it compares, especially in the DR and DPS departments. A druid/AC tag team would probably be even more horrific, if shorter on defensive options.
As for the no -5 to hit thing, well, that's what natural attackers get, and any given martial should be packing a similar CMD to a biped eidolon. Scoring free combat maneuvers on attacks means those mechanics actually get used...we've about given up on them in favor of just straight damage most of the time. Besides, a tripped opponent might mean the monk can actually hit them! :D
Changing up your encounters is going to fix a lot of issues, but you're going to have to be very careful - you're going to have a party wipe very easily with what you've described thus far. The monk in particular is hard to set up well, and I've not seen anything described above that makes me think he's other than a sub optimal (no qinggong, no crane style, etc.) core monk. The dex fighter seems to put out decent damage thanks to TWF and agile weapons, but the healbot cleric is probably not helping much.
That party's short on control and long on martial/buffers, so battles are probably nasty, brutal and short when things are going their way. Folks probably eat a lot of damage. That synth is probably a godsend (as are summons in general) for ensuring the cleric isn't blowing his daily allotment of spells in the first 2 encounters.
On my monk I was going by memory so some details are fuzzy. I think it was closer to 26to28 self buffing to 32. 3 dex 3 wis 4 armor 2 def 2 nat 1 dodge. That comes to 25. I'm sure there was something more but it was a year ago.He didn't have an amulet of fists? The 2 natural armor seems strange.
Was a weapon adept monk focused on the temple sword. The character for the most part had solid defenses good control and okay offense.
What I was trying to really get at is the party monk provided the bad guys have normal to hit for lvl 9 should not get ripped apart in melee.
If the monster is designed to hit the synth everyone else will get ripped apart because the synths ac is disproportinately higher. The op had said the dex fighters ac was 33 or so buffed and using ki the monk should be able to get near that even if its onlt to 31 pr 32. If the party wbl is really low that's likely one of the reasons the monk is getting ripped apart.
Summoner (synthesist) is out of control, that's why it's banned in PFS. An acquaintance showed me a 13th level synth he created and it basically soloed an entire 14th level module. Fun? Fair?
How do you know it wa built correctly, and depending on the module a druid or wizard etc couls solo it.
he is large when using evo surge, so ogre sized. most dungeons can fit that.
I was not just talking about fitting. Being large made my large tiger not be able to move as easily as I would like so I thought a large eidolon would have similar problems .
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Didn't knew about the belt not stacking with bull's strenght, nice to know.
This is a basic rule. If this is missed then other rules were likely missed also which is the case in most threads I see about summoners.
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Is everyone in your group having fun? If not, and that includes you, figure out what to do from there.
Well Summoners suck, but your probably lucky he's not just a base summoner. Last time I ran one of those guys at level 10 in a module he destroyed everything. He basically sent it up and it pounced. His lowest damage in a round was 78. Other than that one round he never did under 140, and was frequently breaking 220. He had a 43 AC and he had a summoner companion (effectively a bard). I audited him too pregame, summoners are the only players I regularly audit because there is so much shenanigans surrounding them.
Before they banned Synths in PFS I played with a guy who ran through the entire dungeon before the rest of the party could catch up and he cleared every encounter in the place. He was level 6 and we were playing a tier 8-9. Most encounters lasted one round.
Unfortunately, a lot of the "solutions" I'm seeing will likely kill other party members. Imagine if the gunslinger crits with his one of his 4 plus attacks. Synth dies or goes KO'd. The rest of the party is demolished.
The ways to really deal with him are pretty limited, and you basically have to recycle the same few tricks over and over again.
Banishment is really the best way to go, but will get old quick obviously.
Planar Binding is good and thematic. Surely the BBEG has to hate that Eidilon. Its an entire questline to save the eidilon. Who the BBEG is now melded with!
Your other issue is lack of optimization with your other three players. Either they need to optimize more, or the Summoner needs to deoptimize.
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Wow, more problems with the summoner and synthesist? I would never in a thousand years have seen this sort of thing coming. They are finely balanced according to conventional wisdom.
The best way to counter combat monsters is either to get 1. A monster Slayer or 2. Out of Combat Encounters. The second is my favorite. Also, that golem the OP talked about is a bad example, the party had a golembane scarab, it helped them kill it.
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So let me get this straight:
We have:
1 highly optimized and effective character.
3 poorly optimized and ineffective characters.Are we supposed to be surprised that the optimized character is outshining them? Hell no, why would we be?
Here, try this, DOMINATION SPELLS.
If the OP feels that his current issue is a powerful character then he should act accordingly and find ways to remove the character with some form of crowd control or dominations. This, by virtue of him being unable to act, allows them all to shine.
So telling a player he should remove his crazy OP character for the sake of everyone's fun around the table is BADWRONG unimaginative noob GMing ; but screwing him in any possible fashion by using the cheapest tricks in the book to prove you can win (it's black friday, dominate, coups de grâce, banishment and negative levels for everyone !) anytime you want is proof of imagination and good DMing ?
Yeah. Sure. It's so balancing and fun to get from "crazy OP" to "dead or killing his party" in a single turn.
I'm going to come at this from a different angle:
You might try starting a new game, from first level, with only base character classes until your group gets a better handle on the rules. I'm saying this because at 10th level, no one in your group seems to know which magic items and spells can stack together, and that kind of mistake will completely break the game. It will be especially frustrating to you as the GM because the monsters and NPCs are designed assuming that the players are following those kinds of rules.
^ So much this. The system can get complicated enough not to begin with Advanced Classes.
- Don't allow the Summoner for newbies.
- Utterly ban the Synthesist, unless the one playing it is the rules lawyer who sincerely wants his playing mates to have fun with the game.
- Ban Metamagic Rods.
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Hit the party with cloud attacks, and attack them with touch attack types like shadows or specters. And haste them. Throw in a necromancer with an ability to see in clouds and a wand of enervation...capture the summoner. Plane shift him to a far off hostile place. Dominate him and teleport him away somewhere. Then turn him to stone, break the parts and hide them. Or hit him with a helm of alignment change. Divide and conquer.
That said, simply ask him to retire the character (offer him a far off post as a protector of a region), and bring in something else.
This isn't something you should deal with with in-game escalation. If you come across something that you feel is broken, modify it or ban it. There is no shame in doing so.
To reference something said above, using the CRB only is not a solution; it's just as easy to get a broken character with just the CRB as it is with supplemental materials. The game is unbalanced and has been from day one.
So telling a player he should remove his crazy OP character for the sake of everyone's fun around the table is BADWRONG unimaginative noob GMing ; but screwing him in any possible fashion by using the cheapest tricks in the book to prove you can win (it's black friday, dominate, coups de grâce, banishment and negative levels for everyone !) anytime you want is proof of imagination and good DMing ?
Yeah. Sure. It's so balancing and fun to get from "crazy OP" to "dead or killing his party" in a single turn.
- Don't allow the Summoner for newbies.
- Utterly ban the Synthesist, unless the one playing it is the rules lawyer who sincerely wants his playing mates to have fun with the game.
- Ban Metamagic Rods.
Having a player lose a character because it's hard for the DM to handle is the last resort, hence all the options being presented, and I believe the origin of his/her request for assistance.
Unfairly targeting a player would be always dismissing or banishing the Eidolon every fight (as an example). Utilizing different approaches can make for more challenging encounters, which everyone will enjoy if they are made, and run properly. There are lots of ways using the ideas posted above to make encounters that are fun for the summoner, group and DM without removing the summoner from play. If the DM finds that his group isn't responding well to what he's trying and his fun is plummeting, then removing the summoner may be the best course of action. Well, honestly, never allowing it in the first place would have been the best course of action. C'est la vie.
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Fighter actually has a two weapon fighter archetype. Gets his armor up under full attack, weapon mastery on full atks, reduces (later negates) penalties for 2wpn fighting.
Vampires and spawns have to hit his stupidly high AC. Sure better than nothing, i could pitch him against four vampires, if they all hit one in the round he gets -8 negative levels, i'll just have to make them hit him.
Yeah, but it's not the fighter you're trying to nerf, right? It's the synth.
Isn't that the character you started this thread about?
As some have pointed out, the synth is better tricked than the other PCs. The game is not imbalanced. Your players are not of the same experience or depth of understanding of the game.
You take four people, put them in a room, and only one of them gets the game well enough to optimize and has read every chapter thoroughly, you are going to end up with imbalance, unless:
a. The GM helps the others build up their characters
b. The optimizing player helps the others build up their characters
c. One of the other players finally gets it and helps everybody
b. The GM or the optimizing player nerfs the optimized character
This is a dynamic of the group. Stop blaming the game and Paizo and just fix it.
Hi all!
I am a DM, as far as it goes i really like this game but i would have really liked some class balance in the game. As it is right now it looks totally silly.
Here goes, i have a 4 man team of plyers, all of them level 10. I will call them A, B, C and D
First there is A. A is a summoner (synthesist), here are is main features.
AC 40 (10+3 dex+2 deflection+4 mage armor+ 14 natural+ 4 barkskin+1 dodge+2 shield)
4 claws attacks +20/22 with heroism each does 1d6+11
1 bite +19/21 1d8+11
and rend for 1d6+16DR 5/good, immunity to fire (lol 2 points evolution) can fly using spells, auto cast haste and OP buffs like bull's strenght and greater evolution surge to grow big, granting himself +8 strenght,+6 con and reach.
something like 180 HPs
His feats include something to get -1 attack/+1 AC, power attack for low armor monsters and some other things. He also has near to 0 equipment other than an amulet of mighty fists +1, a cloak of resistance +2 and a belt of strenght +4
How should i even deal with a beast like that? No one in the group, no even B that has some silly fighter with awoseme dex (18+2 human+4 belt+2 level= 26) with dex weapons and dex damaging weapons can deal havok like this man. He is usually just AC 28/30 when taking full attacks and hits for 21/16 (1d6+13)x2 swords.
B can make mincemeat out of CR 9 monsters, can take some punishment with AC 30 after full attacks and 125 HPs but is still nowhere near the synth.
Then we have C, a cleric usually heal botting/buff spamming and getting in melee when really needed, he also has ungodly AC thanks to holy avenger class (until they hit him, but at ac 40 it is a bit difficult)
Lastly, we have D, a monk. This guy is rather useless, sure he deals nice damage when using his flurry but he hits less frequently than the others and his AC is embarassing, something like 25, monsters usually hit him on a 4+ on the d20.
I've tried putting them against CR 14 (advanced iron golem) and they blasted it, they gave the golembane...
Pathfinder doesn't really understand what balance is, as the new is better than the old and amongst the old classes some are vastly better than others (barb over monk). Some get more and gain more benefits over the levels, which then stack as they level further.
Ban it.
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So let me get this straight:
We have:
1 highly optimized and effective character.
3 poorly optimized and ineffective characters.Are we supposed to be surprised that the optimized character is outshining them? Hell no, why would we be?
Here, try this, DOMINATION SPELLS.
If the OP feels that his current issue is a powerful character then he should act accordingly and find ways to remove the character with some form of crowd control or dominations. This, by virtue of him being unable to act, allows them all to shine.
So telling a player he should remove his crazy OP character for the sake of everyone's fun around the table is BADWRONG unimaginative noob GMing ; but screwing him in any possible fashion by using the cheapest tricks in the book to prove you can win (it's black friday, dominate, coups de grâce, banishment and negative levels for everyone !) anytime you want is proof of imagination and good DMing ?
Yeah. Sure. It's so balancing and fun to get from "crazy OP" to "dead or killing his party" in a single turn.
It comes with the territory. If you are the strongest person in a group then it only makes sense that the BBEG is aware of this, and would take steps to deal with you.
When the most powerful character in the party is taken out of the fight the other PCs ~must~ shine or die. This is the point where we find out if the Synthesist IS the party or if he is PART of the party.
Resolving issues in game by creating challenges to challenge the power-players is always better than just telling said power players to take their optimization and shove it up their asses.
I am regularly the power gamer in my group, I regularly bring highly optimized characters so I don't have to worry about just dying due to a stray arrow. When I am not worrying about the mechanics killing me then I can focus on roleplaying because I know that my character is mechanically awesome. This gets exciting when the DM starts sending things to challenge me because it gets dangerous, and these challenges mostly focus on me. It balances out if your DM knows what he is doing, but it falters when the DM doesn't know how to handle it.
The reality is that a well synergized party is LEAGUES more dangerous than a lone well optimized character.
I'm going to come at this from a different angle:
You might try starting a new game, from first level, with only base character classes until your group gets a better handle on the rules. I'm saying this because at 10th level, no one in your group seems to know which magic items and spells can stack together, and that kind of mistake will completely break the game. It will be especially frustrating to you as the GM because the monsters and NPCs are designed assuming that the players are following those kinds of rules.
^ So much this. The system can get complicated enough not to begin with Advanced Classes.
- Don't allow the Summoner for newbies.
- Utterly ban the Synthesist, unless the one playing it is the rules lawyer who sincerely wants his playing mates to have fun with the game.
- Ban Metamagic Rods.
Banishment School
Associated School: Abjuration.
Replacement Powers: The following school powers replace the energy absorption power and the protective ward power of the abjuration school.
Unstable Bonds (Su): At 1st level, your touch can disrupt the bonds that hold a summoned or called creature on this plane. As a melee touch attack, you can cause a summoned or called creature to become shaken and staggered for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum 1). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
Aura of Banishment (Su): At 8th level, you can emit a 30-foot aura of banishment for a number of rounds per day equal to your wizard level. Any summoned or called creature in the area must make a Will save each round. Once the creature fails a Will saving throw, it is staggered as long as it remains inside the aura. If it fails a second Will saving throw, it is immediately sent back to its home plane and the spell that summoned it immediately ends. If that spell summoned more than one creature, only the creature that failed its saving throws is affected. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
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Summoner (synthesist) is out of control, that's why it's banned in PFS. An acquaintance showed me a 13th level synth he created and it basically soloed an entire 14th level module. Fun? Fair?
I actually did a victory song-and-dance the day PFS banned the synthesist, all day.
I still sing it to myself when I hear synthesist issues come up, and get taken to my happy place.
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We recently had this problem in our own group. One of the players was a synthesist summoner and outshined the rest of the group pretty heavily. Once it was apparent that the session would go into a downward spiral since the rest of the players wouldn't be having any fun at all soon enough because the S.S. would be destroying everything, the DM kindly asked that the player make something else so the session wouldn't end. The player agreed after hearing the DM's points and changed his class to something else.
If that isn't an option i suggest touch attacks, like vampiric touch and find someway to get a con damaging poison to stick since its double effective against the S.S.
Maybe it is because clerics and wizards have existed for 40 years but summoners are new
This is part of it in many cases. The paladin smite and the witch's slumber hex had this problem.
As for the OP, I dont know his group so it is hard to make suggestion. I would suggest bring the other characters up to par, and not use single monster encounters. That way the summoner can get his kills, and the other players still have things to do.
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The synth is well built the rest are not; Dex fighter is basically the worst thing you can do with the fighterAll he needs is an Agile light weapon and the Piranha Strike feat. Min-maxed high dexterity TWFs with a pair of keen/agiles are some of the most damaging full-attack DPRs in the game versus anything that can be critted, and unlike strength builds, can actually hold their own AC-wise without a healbot in the party charging them back up every round (and this is especially so once they're suited up in Celestial Armor, which is the best stuff you can buy). Oh, and they don't suck at pinch archery with a twinky repeater sans feats. Or suck at reflex saves, or suck at Acrobatics (remember how awesome Tumble was in 3rd edition? It's still awesome in Pathfinder).
healbot cleric is the weakest type of clericWell, that really depends upon what else they're bringing to table, doesn't it? There are hundreds of cleric spells, and only a few dozen have anything to do with healing.
and ahahaha, a monk trying to do something, how cute.
And to think that just the other day I heard tell of a cleric/monk hybrid with Repose & Domain Strike that'd probably solo half the encounters the OP's GM is making right now.
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Instead talk to the player, lay out how his character is broken, point out it's banned from organized play, and let him rebuild his character from the ground up.
Note: the Synthicist was banned from PFS *not* because it was broken (although a strong case can be made in that regard), but for two other reasons: 1) they wrecked the verisimilitude sought for Society play, and 2) virtually no one playing them was doing so correctly by the albeit incomprehensible rules, and so they became a huge PITA for GMs to adjudicate at the table (one or more other summoner archetypes were also banned for this reason).
Broken? Hell, even Wild Rager wasn't banned for being broken (it, too, was banned for other reasons).
Hi all!
I am a DM, as far as it goes i really like this game but i would have really liked some class balance in the game. As it is right now it looks totally silly.
First there is A. A is a summoner (synthesist), here are is main features.
Unless your whole group is very into optimizing and you extremely experienced and very into finding broken monster tactics and casually throwing at them +2-+3 cr encounters, I would suggest you ban the synthesist, the master summoner and the scarred witch doctor.
They are not just too strong in relation to other classes but they come automatically optimized, or at least are very easy to optimize.If you are a new dm I would suggest allowing only the corebook and the APG. At very least keep an eye out for stuff like magus and the gunslinger who can be very problematic for new dm's.
This will let you focus on the story and not spent too much of your energy coming up with unique tactics for your pc's all the time, which could end up being kinda boring.
You know this is a houserule right? Do you not let someone who has a belt of str qualify for power attack? Functionally that is what a fused eidolon is
Seems reasonable to me. . . don't allow magically enhanced stats to count when qualifying for feat?
How far would you go? My Cleric can cast Bull's Strength so I should qualify for Power Attack because of that alone?
Please . . .pretty sure the INTENT of the requirement is that it is your actual stat, not an amount you have some of the time.
We tried both the synthesist and he summoner in my group. The synthesist player suggested banning the class himself. My group have played RPGs for 20 years, and are very good optimizers.If you haven't suggested banning wizards and you think you are good optimizers, think again!
I find it pretty funny that synthesist summoner get called out so much. Regular summoners actually end up better overall, starting around 10 because of their action economy, but pale in comparison to the mighty wizard.
Maybe it is because clerics and wizards have existed for 40 years but summoners are new
I've suggested it more than once, and I'll not be using them in my next game. For the most part, though, the issue with clerics and wizards is their spells, not the mechanics of the class itself. Removing broken spells, items and feats brings the wizard and cleric at least closer to in-line with sanity.
You know this is a houserule right? Do you not let someone who has a belt of str qualify for power attack? Functionally that is what a fused eidolon is
Seems reasonable to me. . . don't allow magically enhanced stats to count when qualifying for feat?
How far would you go? My Cleric can cast Bull's Strength so I should qualify for Power Attack because of that alone?
Please . . .pretty sure the INTENT of the requirement is that it is your actual stat, not an amount you have some of the time.
The official responses from the design team indicates otherwise. That is precisely how it works, in both directions. If your STR dips below 13, you can no longer use Power Attack. If your STR has fallen below 13 (say, due to aging penalties), and you get a STR boost (temporary or permanent), then you can access your Power Attack again.