Chief Jubbek

Sir Thugsalot's page

1,146 posts. Alias of Mike Schneider.


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Shadow Lodge

My "ulterior motive" is to take the AoO-granted attack with a different weapon than the one which secured the AoO via a maneuver. For example, to one I have Weapon Training in, or which is my Sacred Weapon, or which is a one-handed so swashbuckler or dervish stuff works. All that "cool" stuff.

Shadow Lodge

If you polymorph into a tiger and jump into a lake and swim to the bottom and stay will drown.

If you turn into a fish and jump onto the shore and stay there, you will likewise suffocate.

"If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing."

Because that particular form -- the thing you turned into -- can *normally* do that. That does not imply that every creature is capable of doing what you normally do.

All creature templates have the following structure:

Horse, light wrote:


Speed 50 ft.
Melee 2 hooves –2 (1d4+1)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.

This animal has a move of 50 on land, the default. If you Beast Shape into a horse, you'll get to run faster, but you won't be able to fly.

"Adult Red Dragon wrote:


Speed 40 ft., fly 200 ft. (poor)
Melee bite +25 (2d8+15), 2 claws +25 (2d6+10), 2 wings +23 (1d8+5), tail slap +23 (2d6+15)

This dragon can fly through the air five times faster than it can move on the ground, but it doesn't burrow or swim.

Squid, Giant wrote:


Speed swim 60 ft., jet 260 ft.
Melee bite +14 (2d6+7), 2 arms +14 (1d6+7), tentacles +12 (4d6+3/19-20 plus grab)

This aquatic animal has only underwater speeds listed. It doesn't get to move on land any more than it gets to fly through the air or burrow in the dirt.

Cephalopods cannot normally breathe air, and have a physiology reliant upon a buoyant environment. Without a skeleton to support their suddenly crushing weight on land, they could do little more than collapse into a heap and limply crawl.

It'd be like if you were suddenly transported to a high-gravity planet where you weighed 2,000lbs.

Shadow Lodge

Atalius wrote:
The additional +1 to AC is that good? Seems lack luster to me. There are a lot of other feats I could grab which would also give me a +1 to armor.

And they're all equally "lackluster".

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

(Anecdote: Several years ago, I watched an experienced PFS judge slowly develop a side character with his "GM credits", and noted that this thing (a dwarf tower shield specialist) was almost pure saves and AC. It was built solely to survive attrition grinds. It had about half the offensive output of most frontliners, but took a fifth of the damage. It made me wonder what he knew was lurking in those final retirement arcs.)

Shadow Lodge

pad300 wrote:

Ok, questions:

1) Can you elect to only have power attack turn on in the middle of your full attack routine? (ie when you switch from natural weapons to falcata's)
Yes. The penalty lasts until the beginning of your next turn. (TWF you must declare in advance of your first attack in a full-attack.)
2) Where is your chance of failing to cast the scroll of Divine power? It's a CL 7 scroll, and you are a 1st level caster - I figure this would make you fail 30% of the time.
Yeah...that'll need to be fixed. (At one point the build included Magical Knack, more levels of Warpriest, and a lower-level scroll being cast.)
3) How do you have a +1 to damage on a cracked pale green prism?
I bought both types.
4) I assume that's a weapon master fighter, and that's how you are getting wpn training at 3ed.
5) Shouldn't there be a -5 to hit penalty for your Fortuitous 2nd AoO?
If that's the rule, I forgot it. I also forgot my racial bump, and should have been calculating for a strength of 22 for +1/+1 att/dmg throughout, and bit more dmg w/polearm. Myeh.
6) Can you actually take ITWF and GTWF? You only qualify for them during your rage. I would have thought a temporary bonus like that wouldn't qualify you to take the feat. (Unlike say, owning a belt of dex +4 for a permanent bonus; then you could practice and learn the feat)
Once upon a time (2012), there was lots of talk about that, but it ran out of gas when commentators starting pointing out all the druids with Weapon Focus (Claw) and wizards with Skill Focus (Fly) even though neither have requisite gimmicks running 24hr/day. More recently it's been determined that brawlers can take Two-Weapon Feint even though it triggers only during their flurries, and bloodline sorcerers and other feral types taking Improved Natural Attack.
7) What is your Champion's Banner mounted on and how are you carrying it?

Like this. The Champion's Banner does not require a slot or a weapon haft (although it may be placed in or on either).

Deighton Thrane wrote:

To add on to what pad300 is asking:

8)Did you mean to take Quick Draw as the fighter bonus feat at level 11, cause it's missing from the build right now?
Well, now where did that go...
9)How is your luck bonus to attack and damage at +4? A caster level 7 scroll should only be a +2 bonus.
Have I ever told you how much I hate scrolls? Seriously: *F#@k* scrolls.
10)How are you attacking while pinned?
With the one-handed weapon still in my hand, at -10. (It says the monster has Fast Swallow; it doesn't say that you are swallowed. Being pinned does not otherwise prevent you from attacking from a one-handed weapon. -- You need a light weapon when swallowed.)
11)How are you getting full strength to damage with secondary natural attacks?
Have I ever told how much I hate...
12)How are you getting full power attack damage with off hand attacks?
Huh. <check><whaddya know> Double Slice doesn't give ya that....
The following is less questions, more just plains statements. You can't use the same limb for a weapon attack as a natural attack in the same full attack action, even with quick draw.
Can you cite that in RAW?
You also have to take attacks in order from highest BAB to lowest which means you have to start with your manufactured weapon attacks if you're combining manufactured and natural weapons, because the natural weapon attacks are made at BAB -5.
Again, can you cite that in RAW?
Also, with enlarge person you only have 17 dexterity, which means that even if you could take Greater Two Weapon Fighting, you can't actually use it.
It dimly comes back to be now: There used to be a Deep Red Sphere, and two of the level bumps were into DEX, not all into STR.
All in all, I'm seeing 380 damage with this build, without any calculations for reliable strike. You do have an extra feat, and a couple magic items that don't work as intended though, so damage could be brought up a bit.

Unfortunately there are no spare feats (the build as-is does not gain one with fighter7 at 12th, but at that time the PFS PC spends cash and prestige to retrain two lower feats to others with BAB11 prerequisites.

Shadow Lodge

"Excuse me, 'scuse me...." (A buff warrior elbows past the complaining wizard, eager to test his mettle.)

half-orc: Toothy
alignment: CN, deity: Rovagug
Traits: Fate’s Favored, Bestial Wrath (religion)

STR+17 (all bumps)
CON:14 (half-orc 15,15,14,14,10,07 20pt array)

00 saves FT RF WI
00 base: 02 03 02
01 barb1 04 03 02 [Drunken Brute][Savage Technologist], EWP:Falcata
02 cava1 06 03 02 [gendarme:feat:Power Attack]
03 warp1 08 03 04 [Weather,War][Weapon Focus:Falcata], TWF
04 fight1 10 03 04 [feat:Double Slice]
05 barb2 11 03 04 [rage power:Beast Totem(lesser)], Reckless Rage
06 fight2 12 03 04 [feat retrained to Two-Weapon Rend at 12th]
07 fight3 12 04 05 [WT:falcata], AWT:Effortless Dual-Wielding
08 braw1 14 04 05 [Mutagenic Mauler]
09 fight4 15 04 05 [feat:ITWF], Weapon Specialization
10 fight5 16 05 05 [Reliable Strike]
11 fight6 16 05 05 [***], Extra Rage Power [Reckless Abandon+1]
12 fight7 17 06 06 [WT+2], retrain [***:Greater Two Weapon Fighting]

36,000 +1/Furious/Keen falcatas (pair)
16,000 Belt of Giant Strength +4
15,000 Gloves of Dueling
8,000 +1/Fortuitous bardiche
8,000 Vambraces of the Tactician
8,000 Champion’s Banner
8,000 cracked pale green prisms: (att+1) and (dmg+1)
4,000 Amulet of Mighty Fists (Furious)
2,700 Animal Mask
1,200 + 10 prestige points (retrain two feats at 12th level)
750 potion of Heroism
700 scroll of Divine Power
300 MW small falcata
50 potion of Enlarge Person
0.01 Coconut oil to better define abs and obliques — we are freakin' kut

Ongoing: Mutagen, Heroism. Carrying a potion and scroll.

Prep round: move: drink held potion of Enlarge Person, standard: cast Divine Power scroll, swift: activate Animal Mask (boar), quickdraw bardiche (20’ reach), rage(STR+4,DEX+4)

* Monster move: we get one AoO plus a follow-up AoO if first hits:

Attack bonus (bardiche): 11(BAB) +12(STR20+4[rage]+4[muta]+4[belt]+2[size]=34) +1(enh) +4(luck) +2(morale) +1(ioun) +1(reckless) —1(size) -4(PA) = +28 (AoO#1: 95%; Fortuitous recursive AoO: 90.25%)

Damage (+1/fortuitous bardiche, enlarged): 2d8 +18(2hSTR) +1(enh) +4(luck) +12(1.5x[PA+RecklessRage]) +1(ioun) = 45

[.95x45=A + crit%(.1)(A)] = B, first AoO = 47.025
… +.95x(B), Fortuitous AoO = 44.67375
= 91.69875

* Fight round: drop bardiche, swift-Challenge, 5’ (if necessary), declare full-attack with TWF penalties: two claws, bite, gore, then quickdraw falcatas and GTWF (+Divine Power extra) w/Effortless Dual-Wielding. Eleven attacks total, plus Two Weapon Rend if *any* two the eleven hit.

Attack bonus (enlarged claws x2, bite, gore): 11(BAB) +12(STR) +2(AoMF) +4(luck) +2(morale) +1(ioun) +1(reckless) —1(size) -2(TWF) -5(secondary attacks) -0(not Power Attacking yet) = +26

Damage (natural attacks): +12(STR) +7(challenge), +2(AoMF) +4(luck) +1(ioun) = 26 (so: 2x claws d8+26=30.5, bite and gore both d6+26=29.5)

[.85x30.5=A + crit%(.05)(A)] = 27.22125 x2
[.85x29.5=A + crit%(.05)(A)] = 26.32875 x2
= 107.115

Attack bonus (Power Attack with falcata x7): 11(BAB) +12(STR) +4(luck) +2(moral) +3(enh) +5(WF+WT) +1(abandon) +1(ioun) —1(size) -4(PA) -2(TWF) = +35

Damage (+1/furious/keen falcata, enlarged): 2d6 +12(STR) +7(challenge) +3(enh) +4(luck) +8(PA+RecklessRage) +6(WT+WS) +1(ioun) = 48

[.95x48=46.5 + crit%(.2)(46.5x2)] = 64.76 x5
[.8x48=38.4 + crit%(.2)([.9x48]x2)] = 55.68 x2
+Two Weapon Rend (d10+1.5xSTR = 23), chance of occurring within an infinitesimal of 100%.
= 458.16

* Swan song: We howl in frustration and fury, and swing one last time: 11(BAB) +12(STR) +4(luck) +2(moral) +3(enh) +5(WF+WT) +1(abandon) +1(ioun) —1(size) -10(prone/grappled/shaken/sickened) = +28

Damage (+1/furious/keen falcata, enlarged): 2d6 +12(STR) +7(challenge) +3(enh) +4(luck) +6(WT+WS) +1(ioun) = 40

[.95x40=38 + crit%(.2)(38x2)] = 53.2

Reliable Strike: …hairy balls of the gods is this hard to compute, because it only triggers on misses, and applies to both main rolls as well as threat-confirmation rolls. But only once per day. Over the course of six 95% and two 80% falcata attackes, we accumulate a 52.954% chance of at least one miss (and therefore gaining a reroll). In the 47.0459% chance that we do not miss with any of those attacks, there are eight potential threats that could miss and therefore merit a reroll; miss chance of threats is 40.457557%. Preliminary math: 52.954% (mains) + (.2)(40.457557) = 08.09151137% (threats) of a reroll somewhere. 7 attacks are worth 48pts, 1 worth 40, and any crits respectively double, with there again being chances to miss on the rerolls. <snip even more boring crap> Anyway, I got an average of 28.5 extra from this.

Grand total:

… 91.69875
… 107.115
… 458.16
… 53.2
… 28.5

= 738.67375

Shadow Lodge

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So an archer can draw a 2' arrow out of his quiver and hook it into another weapon (which requires the arrow's addition in order to function) faster than I can draw and slash with a weapon using a feat specifically worded to make said activity happen in the blink of an eye?

<furrowed-eyebrows scowl>

(IRL, you could do this before acceleration due to gravity has taken your dropped weapon all the way to the ground.)

Shadow Lodge

Scenario: I am granted an AoO with weapon#1 (let's say I tripped somebody and I have Greater Trip). The AoO is not specifically tied to Weapon#1 (e.g., via Fortuitous). For my granted AoO, I'd like to use a different weapon currently in an accessible sheath. I have Quick Draw.

-- Can I drop #1, free-action quickdraw #2 & smack?

Shadow Lodge

I see some people using a Scabbard of Vigor. Those have been nerfed and now take up your belt slot.

Shadow Lodge

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If you see yourself ever casting Summon Nature's Ally more than 150 times, you'll save money over the cost of buying three wands.

Otherwise it's a CoR that you can't upgrade.

Shadow Lodge

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Benefit: While you are using the Snapping Turtle Style feat, the shield bonus the style grants to your AC increases to +2, and your enemies take a –4 penalty on critical confirmation rolls against you.

It falls in the category of "feats that are incredibly awesome while also being incredibly boring".

-- It'll save your life constantly, but nobody will notice.

Shadow Lodge

Perfect Tommy wrote:
Giant Octopus.

That only works when dumb GMs don't realize that skeletonless cephlopods on land would be stunned, blind, and suffocating.

Shadow Lodge

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Azten wrote:
Aren't PFS scenarios kinda notorious for being weak though?

Depends on the year, depends on the GM, depends on the players, depends on party composition. Home games are typically well-oiled machines in which every PC is very familiar with what they others can do, and how the GM adjudicates. PFS tables are a train-wreck in a zombie apocalypse where you don't know who's in the seat in next to you.'ll be breezing along on autopilot as Ser Mutoid McClane thinking it's a total cakewalk, and all of a sudden a flying breath-weapon monster starts slagging the party while they're clamoring along a ledge, and you realize there's not a professional archer at the table and nobody's playing a blaster because oh-they-suck-compared-to-summoning-hordes-of-angels-but-oh-crap-it's-a-full -round-before-I-can-get-'em-to-show-up-and-*piss*-I-only-got-*1*-one-of-'em !

Barely surviving that debacle, you then have to get on a ship, and you know you're screwed now. All the remains to be determined is which poor sod is the one yanked over the side into the briny deep with "nonrecoverable" body loss.

Shadow Lodge

DeathlessOne wrote:
Sir Thugsalot wrote:
DeathlessOne wrote:
Especially if that Paladin is a chosen one and has a familiar that can use your own Lay on Hands to heal you if a swift action is not enough to keep you healed.
Still hate that archetype. Core pally rocks the socks.
Eh, sorry to hear that. I think the Chosen One is a great archetype that (after 5th level) is strictly better than the core Paladin. Merely delaying a few abilities (that still progress at the same rate, as if not delayed) and only replacing Divine Bond? But then, I happen to enjoy a bit of delayed gratification and don't mind being a level or two behind on some abilities, especially early on.

Give up Divine Bond (and especially if we're in a home-game)? Don't think so.

Note: if you're the whiny munchkin sort, your paladin might not get one of those.

Shadow Lodge

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RealAlchemy wrote:
Have the tiger charge, make an acrobatics check to jump, and then use pounce to bring it down :)


(Also, I'd go with cats and other supple-spined creatures such as weasels, but not horses or boars, being able to "stand" as a move action, transforming from a long creature into a tall one. They're not good at balancing upright, however, and need to continue expending the move to keep upright.)

Shadow Lodge

I envision a ninja class but ranged. And his ranged attack is dart like throwing knives that can have the added joy of poisons.

Shuriken have better range than daggers, and you can apply poison and other effects to them in bunches like ammunition rather than one at a time like weapons). Bloodrager[urban] as a 1st-level dip; lots of bloodline+feat goodies to choose from.

If this is a home game, ask to apply the rogue's unchained mechanic to the ninja. (If you're running the game, obviously this won't be a problem.)

Shadow Lodge

Shadow Lodge

I'm pretty sure that even blind-cursed oracles have a gunslinger archetype now.

Shadow Lodge

SheepishEidolon wrote:
There is another source:


- - -

Edit: Dangit; that site is really old.

Shadow Lodge

Jurassic Pratt wrote:
Sir Thugsalot wrote:

<waybackmachine to earlier today, top 'o the page>

...d20pfsrd's list of potions doesn't appear to have been updated in years, and Nethys is, I think, just plain busted (it only lists half a dozen)....

<floor the DeLorean back into the future, McFly>

Well, you're misinterpreting what I said for one. I didn't say you needed to buy and flip through all those books or that archive sites weren't needed. I said you could just look through the spell lists on those sites to find what which ones can be made into potions.

Which means you misinterpreted the OP, because you can't accomplish what you just suggested if the spell isn't *listed*. Said lament being the whole point of the thread.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

So...I take it there aren't any other sites?

Shadow Lodge

Jurassic Pratt wrote:
Yeah, no archiving site is gonna list every possible potion as its kinda redundant. Any spell of 3rd level and lower that affects 1 or more creature or objects and isn't personal can be made into a potion.
The entire *point* of an "archiving site" (particularly one with the word "archive" in its name) is that listing things is their "one job".
There's just no need to make that list as you can just look through spells.


Let's see now, at last count there were 25 Core books, 43 Modules (that number seems way small), 26 Companions, 49 Settings, and 79 Adventure Paths, not counting errata (which I would really need as well). Assuming that I broke the piggybank for all 222 of those, sight-unseen, it would still take me how many *years* to quickly dash through them all on a 2nd-level spell-hunt or sub-4000gp item-hunt in the case I don't have fully eidetic memory from the first time I read them?

-- I don't think some of you fully appreciate how HUGE this game is now.

Browsing archive sites is not only a luxury, it's neigh mandatory.

Shadow Lodge

"In my experience", all Pathfinder players I've ever met F2F are or were in PFS to some extent.

-- But that's how anecdotal works.

Shadow Lodge

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Lady-J wrote:
that's by design
You know this for a fact, or is it just a guess?
that way content creators can make money off of book sales for a decent amount of time b4 its added to a site for people to view for free

The major reasons why this is incorrect:

* PFS (whose players account a very large if not majority Pathfinder customer base) requires ownership (physical books or watermarked PDFs), and most in said campaign are not going to buy a dozen PDFs of the books containing the feats and items they want -- unless they already know what they are.

Paizo has hundreds of Pathfinder products now, and even if I owned every single PDF it'd be a gargantuan PITA to laboriously shuffle back and forth between them looking at spell descriptions, and trying to have more than a dozen pdfs open at the same time bogs the system.

Thus, lists are highly desirable.

Shadow Lodge

Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:
Fighter, monk, rogue and warpriests were pretty weak historically and have been on an upward trend for months.

* Unchained fighter is unquestionably better, although the standard-action cost of unlimbering (Su) supernatural Advanced Weapon Training abilities is irksome.

* Unchained rogue is also noticeably improved: it saves you a feat and a +1 (Agility) upgrade to a weapon (more if you TWF); it's solid if you're a finesse dude. (Strength rogues get nothing from unchained.)

* Unchained monk is a mixed bag; many of the chained archetypes were never "weak" in the first place (with some considered the most powerful martials in the game), and the unchained version has a lot of overt as well as more hidden traps (dumped will saves, things that used to be class features now cost ki, and extra ki attacks now must be made with unarmed strike as opposed to with any monk weapon, the class is still a slave to AoMF and still can't enchant clothing as armor).

* Warpriest...I can't see that these were ever weak at all unless the comparison was to straight caster rather than martials, whom they can mop the floor with. The ability to pop off +3/+3 Luck bonuses via swift Divine Favor at 3nd level is flat-out sick.

Shadow Lodge

Rycaut wrote:
very fun idea and nice build - but not for my player (I know him) - that said I do like the mechanical ideas here - though ranger doesn't really fit his overall concept entirely (he is more interested in magic than martial ability) - hence the idea of eventually going Eldritch Knight with this character

EK will leave the familiar high-and-dry (i.e., not advancing).

I'd just make him a straight-class warpriest. It's easy, deity options are almost endless, and he'll have more magical choices available per round than he'll know what to do with. He can start with a 17 in wisdom, a 14 in one more stat with 12s in everything else, and still be awesome at almost everything.

House-rule piggybacking the Chosen One paladin archetype (if he's still interested in the familiar) onto warpriest is just as easy: change the Delayed Grace class feature into Delayed Fervor (warpriest gets Focus Weapon and Sacred Weapon at 2nd rather than 1st, and get Fervor at 4th instead of 2nd), and the Lay on Paws ability keys off the warpriest's channeling and spontaneous casting abilities (burning additional uses as if LoH w/paladin).

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

One more thing just for funsies: little does the PC know, but his father was more than just snowcaster elf, he was actually a half-drow/half-snowcaster, meaning l'il Jr. is a quarter-drow mutt. Every several levels, have a new feature from the half-elf(drow) list show up as a freebie for the character (don't have darkvision be the first thing, and don't tell him why; it's something he'll have to figure out).

Shadow Lodge

<Lurch> "You rang?" </Lurch>

Shadow Lodge

Louise Bishop wrote:
I would just give it to him. Mount is the most underwhelming of the divine bonds.

No kidding; Paizo could move Mount to first (with heavy warhorses and riding dogs available), give 'em Mounted Combat for free, keep weapon bond at 5th and also gain the Celestial Servant feat for free at that level (waiting until 11th for a celestial AC, when assimar can get them at 1st, is dumb), then call 'em "Unchained" and be done updating the class in five minutes. (And none of this sneaky crap dropping the will save either. Pallys still have complete toss for feats, and in any combat versus non-evil having nothing at all exciting to do except stand around making their saves.)

Shadow Lodge

d20pfsrd's list of potions doesn't appear to have been updated in years, and Nethys is, I think, just plain busted (it only lists half a dozen).

...I'm trying to quickly browse all the new potion-applicable spells which have appeared since circa 2015-ish.

Shadow Lodge

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Rycaut wrote:

...a half-elf raised in Tien by his mother who was a renowned sorceress with a snowcaster elf father (who may have been an Eldritch Knight or something similar) - we are starting at level 1 (in Reign of Winter) so his initial motivation is to seek out his father (wherever he has ended up)

So he would like a character that uses elf weapons (longsword, perhaps bow), has some magical ability, some performance ability and perhaps an asian/anime like companion (he also indicated an interest in perhaps having some unarmed combat ability but mechanically getting all of that may be difficult)....

Rycaut, try this: The PC begins play with a silvanshee, the cute little cat which I'm guessing was already the familiar you or he were thinking of when contemplating the Chosen One paladin archetype (since it fits the classic anime trope of a small magical creature whose purpose is to mainly sit on your shoulder and be totally squee! cute. In fact, he'll get it even if he doesn't take paladin at 1st level (which I recommend not to in this case; see build suggestion below). It's initial stats, however, will be very much like an ordinary housecat (i.e., not a INT10 magical outsider quite yet, as it's more immersive to build these things up).

But not for long, though, as there's just something a little off: At second CL, the cat becomes preternaturally hungry (eating twice as much Meow-Mix or mice as a normal housecat its size would) and begins putting on weight. (As the GM, you should have the cat raiding the party's pantry and running off with sausage-links, etc.) When the character levels to 3nd, his pet grows up from size tiny to small (i.e., bobcat-sized, although still cute and playful rather than ornery like a real bobcat), and a faint pattern of spots appears in its coat. At 5th CL, it reaches medium in size, and it is now painfully apparent that what was initially assumed a full-grown cat was in fact just a kitten of snow cat lineage. At 7th, it becomes size large with the Narrow Frame feat, and is available as a paladin bonded mount (any existing weapon or animal bond waived). Initially shy when tiny, it has become quite brave (treat as having the war-trained and attack-unnatural tricks built-in and also conferring Mounted Combat to its rider). If the character accepts it as his paladin Divine Bond mount (specifically: only as a paladin), it will remain a full-level familiar and animal companion provided no more than two class levels do not grant full-level companion advancement. Penalty: the quite intelligent cat will sense wavering commitment and develop a sense of despondent ennui should the character abandon the path of righteousness; it will not advance by any means whatsoever should the PC stray from the path of paladin. -- if the player wanted an Oath, this is it: be true to your buddy.

Hybrid cat stats: combine what's at both of those links, taking the better in each case (i.e., such as highest stats, the silvanshee's cold-resistance 10, keeping both familiar and companion abilities, etc), then advance to Large as per druid AC. Exception: its Spectral Mist ability only manifests in the case of taking any damage or effect which would kill it; death instead poofs it into a cloud of vapor which then dissipates. It reappears 1d6 days later, during which time the character endures whatever penalties come with losing an animal companion. (Don't let him know this ahead of time, and expect some real roleplaying out of it the first time it happens. (Treat the cat as a summoned creature which can't actually killed while on the material plane.)

To those who think this is all maybe a little too much, consider that the Chosen One archetype would normally grant both a familiar and Divine Bond, meaning that if both are being folded into one critter, it should be awesome. (Besides, he's a martial, and every once in a great while a martial should get a nice thing he can actually keep. Especially if they're good, and a good outsider has taken a shine to them.)

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Character build: Start him off with two levels of ranger, then all paladin (he'll get Divine Bond at 7th).

CON:14 (half-elf 15,14,14,14,10,08 20pt array)
CHA+17 (all bumps)

racial trait: Ancestral Arms (Exotic Weapon Proficiency:Fauchard)
character traits: Dangerously Curious, Demon Slayer

01 ranger1 [beastmaster archetype], Feat(g):Fey Foundling
02 ranger2 [combat style:archery:Rapid Shot#]
03 paladin1 [Chosen One:Divine Emissary:Religious Mentor], Feat(g):Fast Learner*
04 paladin2 [Smite Evil][Lay on Paws], CHA>18
05 paladin3 [Mercy], Feat(g):Greater Mercy
06 paladin4 [Divine Grace:CHA>saving throws/share w/cat]
07 paladin5 [Divine Bond:(Mounted Combat if Mount)], FEAT(g):Spirited Charge#
08 paladin6
09 paladin7 [True Form], Feat(g): Wheeling Charge

* Half-elves can take human feats, and in this case it's particularly good because half-elves get to chose two favored classes.)
# At 7th, use the retraining rules to swap ranger archery style to mounted style, and take Ride-by Attack, thereby permitting Spirited Charge at the same time in the general slot.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Backstory: The character begins play with a wicked-looking polearm only he knows how to use, a strange cat with luminescent purple eyes, and a small wooden box (a mundane family heirloom) containing a very old piece of parchment from his mother: It is a scroll discernible as of Instant Enemy to those with Read Magic -- which the character is unable to cast due to lacking sufficient wisdom to access ranger spells, or indeed any knowledge of magic whatsoever. But such inability has given him a fascination for all things magical despite lacking the genetic disposition for it, and thus the Dangerously Curious trait and the Fast Learner feat).

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avr wrote:
A Corset of Delicate Moves can turn a move into a swift 1/day....
<spidey senses tingle><head off to Nethys>

Corset of Delicate Moves

Melee Tactics Toolbox pg. 28 (Amazon)
Aura faint transmutation; CL 5th
Slot chest; Price 2,000 gp; Weight —
This tight-fitting garment of fine silk has thin bone ribbing sewn into it. Once per day as a move action, the wearer can take an additional swift action. This swift action can’t be used to cast a spell or spell-like ability. The shirt must be worn for 24 hours before this ability can be used.

Oh. Really. I see what you did there, Paizo. Yet another instance of you creating new feats and items whose appearance immediately shuts down ubiquitous totally-makes-sense options that players have been using for over a decade, namely "downgrading" a move-action into a swift, because it absolutely makes sense, and everybody and their kid sister's uncle does it.

But cometh the GM to say: "You must now wear this really fruity ladies garment that eats your chest slot to do that incredibly common thing you used to do all the time for free...once, but try not do anything even slightly cool or it won't work."

~ ~ ~

Hey, you know what I can still do as a free-action? ...get *pissed*.

Intense, seething, mutagenic, elemental, claws-poppin'-out-everywhere RAGE.

BRAWHHWHHWHWAAARRRGGGHHHH! (Where's my lance? Where's my bat? Things gonna die now....)

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Order of the Land

Knights of the Inner Sea pg. 24
Challenge: Whenever an order of the land cavalier issues a challenge, he receives a +1 morale bonus on ranged attack rolls against the target of his challenge. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the cavalier possesses.

I just wanted to make clear that this order does not provide or convert the cavalier's normal Challenge melee damage bonus into versus ranged targets, correct?

(That is, aside from them being a Luring archetype, or owning certain wondrous items.)

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Arassuil wrote:
I assume one swift action is for the extra Ki point flurry attack?

Yup. It's a pain when you're a multiclass and can't Challenge/Smite/Fervor/whatever and take a Ki attack.

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Arassuil wrote:
The closest thing that I can think of off the top of my head is the Quick Runner's Shirt. Although not as good as it used to be. And even then, it's convert a swift action to a move action.

While useful in other circumstances, it doesn't aid the cause of those who need to get two swifts off in a round. (Monks in particular are heavily stymied by action economy trying to use Ki.)

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Smoke 'em if ya got 'em.

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Dáin Ironfoot knows Dazzling Display, and he's pretty damned good at it.

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race: half-orc, racial trait: Sacred Tattoo
traits: Fate's Favored(faith), Deadeye Bowman(religion:Erastil)
01 bloodrager [urban][bloodrider:mount][draconic:claws:Power Attack], Combat Reflexes
02 warpriest1 [Divine Commander:mount][Weapon Focus:longbow]
03 warpriest2 [Fervor], Quick Draw or Extra Rage


* saves are +9/+4/+7 before buffs or raging
* +3 Luck bonus to att/dmg as a swift action 3/day
* +4 raging to the physical attribute of choice
* out-of-box mounts are still badass at 3rd-level
* full cleric spell list and partial arcane spell list
* Combat Reflex Enlarged(scroll) w/polearm
* decent archer (aside from lack of Rapid Shot)
* claws only appear when raging, so not a monster in polite-society
* Acrobatics, Diplomacy, and Perception are class skills

Equipment: bardiche, lance, composite longbow, javelins, scale barding, backpack full of cheap scrolls

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Vidmaster7 wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
i wonder if anyone has ever run a campaign at level 80+
That poor demented soul.

How does that even work?

GM: "Roll for initiative."

PC: <toss><add modifiers> "...174, I think...."

GM: <dryly> "It's a squeaker, but you go first."

PC: "Quickened Time Stop. Delayed Blast Universe. GTFO to another plane."

GM: "OK, you blew the universe up. Now what?"

PC: "I make a new one, filled with only the things I like."

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Goth Guru wrote:
I tried to enlarge an NPC to gargantuan, and he can do a lot of damage, but he can't hit anything.

Why not? (I suppose it depends upon the means you're using, but most means of enlargement advance STR in equal or greater proportion to declining attack penalty.)

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An enlarged PC with a polearm, armor-spikes, and Combat Reflexes is an absolute murder machine that breaks mods, with Enlarge Person's casting-time being the only impediment (and that is likely the reason that the Plant domain got the Nerfhammer).

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The dueling gloves are very nice...but the annoying thing for fistfighters is that they take up the same slot as cestus.

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Cavall wrote:
No, Thugsalot. I completely disagree that its not crystal clear.
It's crystal clearly six pages away, you mean.
It would be VASTLY worse to have the rules for 1 being an automiss under the critical conformation rules.
Explanation for that being "VASTLY worse" arriving in 3..2..1..*poof*! Hey, where'd it go?
And repeating rules already listed 6 pages before It? Waste of space and paper. Which means extra money to print rules.
There are three separate paragraphs in the critical-hits section on p184 that have four inches of unused blank space at the end of their last sentence. -- It would have cost nothing.
You don't need how to make a ranged attack roll rules under scorching Ray do you?

Given the amount of FAQs and errata involving that spell which have piled up over the years, it's probably not the idea choice for making analogies.

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wraithstrike wrote:
That is a corner case. Most trolls are not hitting a fighter 3 times in a row, and taking him down.
They don't have to hit three times, just twice (the rend damage is automatic after that). So, it's not a corner case, and I've seen multi-attack monsters splick low-level PCs at least a dozen times.
To find out the true survival chance its best to use the most likely scenario.
Wrong. The "less likely scenario" will, with sufficient adventuring, inevitably mount a formidable probability. For example, an event with only a 5% chance of occurring will have had a 40% chance of occurring after ten encounters.
The troll is also a EL+2 encounter. If we put a level 1 character up against a CR 3 creature the chance of dying is higher.

I wasn't talking about 1st-level characters versus trolls, but 3rd-level PCs. Nobody's "playing up".

At 1st level, PCs fight opponents who are generally weaker than them in every regard (weak strength, armed with daggers or clubs, etc). By third level, the PC has picked up 10-15hp and better AC, but not much else. Monsters, however, have tripled in capacity, and motor right through those extra hp in a heartbeat.

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Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

I find the math for these calculations very confusing but I recently made a ratfolk swashtigator (lamplight/inspired blade) build that worships Milani. (I was going for a sort of community guardian and supporter theme in a Dickensian style slum if anyone's interested). Anyway point is I've since realised that deific obedience (a feat he takes at 11) grants Divine favour that + studied target + mutagen + heroism has lead me to accidentally making a extremely accurate build.

I'd be happy to post it along with an inventory and a list of actions for him to take along with prebuffs if anyone else was willing to do the number crunch bit :)

Go ahead and post it. (Note that Studied Target will require your swift action in the "fight" round, so, unless you have a means of tossing up something as a free-action, all of your magic will need to be up and running by the end of the prep round.)

~ ~ ~

The damage/round formula h(d+s)+ft(cd+cb+r) ...looks like Wall of Hurtbrain, but it's really not. Just addition and multiplication, and the cb+r bit almost no builds ever use. It's quite useful to adapt, as it'll start to dawn on you what feats and abilities are overrated and underrated.

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Christopk-K wrote:
(I don't do dump stats)
Sure you do; your build had three 10s -- those are "dumped". They're just not dumped into single digits. That doesn't mean you're getting any decent use out of them. With 15pt buy, dumping is not only expected, it's almost mandatory to be better than mediocre.
Ever since I saw the whole angelic aasimar feat tree I was smitten (no pun)
There are better ways to get airborne that don't come at the hideously-taxed feat cost of Angel Wings. (More on that later.)
What it come down to is a concept to make most out of these wing attacks.

Ignore natural attacks and instead rain down death from above with a *bow*. -- Does everyone else in your party want to be the magus, or a warpriest, in 15pt-buy where they stand in the monster's full-attack murderzone like a tasty pulled-pork popsicle? ...Well, you go right ahead and let 'em do that. Erastil is a grouch who prefers that her servants remain alive to further do her work, so put your suicidal tendencies on a back-burner, bub.

~ ~ ~ ~

DEX:15 (bump 4th)
INT:07 (Angelkin aasimar 15,14,14,12,10,07 15pt array)
CHA+16 (bump 8th+)

Favored Class: paladin, always takes skill points
Traits: Accelerated Drinker, Deadeye Bowman(religion:Erastil)

00 HP saves FT RF WI
00 00 base: 02 02 00
01 12 blood 04 02 00 [move+10][rage:6r/day][Bloodline:celestial:angelic attacks|feat:Weapon Focus(longbow)], Fey Foundling

* Woof! Would you look at all that stuff? Holy smokes... The days of martials dipping fighter for a spare feat are over; if Paizo is going to cram that much stuff into a class at 1st-level, you're nuts to not back up the truck.

* Use rage very sparingly: Rounds per day are limited, and the build cannot take Raging Vitality prior to a CON-belt, which is not a priority. However, it'll be handy later on with an Adaptive bow and movement mechanics to avoid melee.

02 19 ninja1 04 04 00 [SA+1d6]
03 26 ninja2 04 05 00 [Ki pool][combat trick:Power Attack], Quick Draw

* Quick Draw powers quickdraw shields, and fosters a highly versatile switch-hitter combat style employed well by paladins who've a ton of power but very few spare feat slots. Tactics are to rotate archery, polearms, and in-close weaponry. It may not seem like an intuitive choice here, but all sorts of new ideas will occur to you only after the ability to implement them exists. For example, you're facing a wounded opponent in melee; you declare a full-attack (because you intend to spend a point of ki for an extra attack). If you need to hit them twice, you're good -- but if you drop him with your first swat and then find yourself not near any other opponent, you can quickdraw your bow and shoot a distance target. It's all about squeezing action economy. Or something gets right up in your grill while you're holding your just drop it, quickdraw a melee beatstick and klonk away.

* You will be buying this stuff by the crate: Meditation Crystals and Tea of Transference, because they will grant you the ability to almost infinitely recycle the paladin goodies which you are about to receive. Keep the haverfridge well-stocked.

00 HP saves FT RF WI
04 34 pala1 06 06 02 [core archetype][Smite:1/d], DEX>16
05 42 pala2 10 09 06 [divine grace][Lay on Hands:d6+2], Deadly Aim

* With both Power Attack and Deadly Aim, damage is beginning to scale.
* You might be tempted to take the Divine Hunter archetype in order to snarf Precise Shot...don't.

06 50 pala3 10 10 06 [mercy:fatigued][LoH:2d6+4]
07 58 pala4 11 10 07 [Sm2/d][spells][channel][LoH:3d6+6], Greater Mercy

* Weapons on the Christmas shopping list: +1/Adaptable greenwood composite longbow, +1/Furious bardiche, and a really nice kukri along the same lines. Oh, and don't forget Santa's little helper: a Silver Smite Bracelet.

08 66 pala5 11 10 07 [divine bond]
09 74 pala6 12 11 08 [mercy:enfeebled][LoH:4d6+8], FEAT(g) (...Boon Companion, if you took a mount)
10 keep doin' that paladin thang....

* Now I know what you're asking, "Where are my wings, sucka!? You said there'd be wings."

-- Your wings are right here. Then you pop these on your buddy. Then you share this, which you can do because it's on the bloodrager list (so you'll have a 750gp wand of it).

Moral of the story: Don't blow two feats (one of them being a thoroughly worthless "tax") in the most feat-starved class in the game to obtain what you can get earlier and better versions of with mere gold.

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Kaouse wrote:
Unsanctioned Knowledge is definitely worth the pick up if you don't want to constantly spend your limited amount of money on scrolls every time you want to cast something.

My 1st-level paladin with Dangerously Curious started play with two scrolls, and bought eight more after his first payday.

I don't think a 14th-level character will have trouble affording the hobby.

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Daw wrote:
Sir Thugsalot wrote:
...I'm frankly amused that this hasn't been made air-tight explicit in the d20 rule-set through the course of two publishers over a span of going-on eighteen years, given that it's one of the more commonly occurring things in the game.
Critical Hits: When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), you hit regardless of your target's Armor Class, and you have scored a "threat," meaning the hit might be a critical hit (or "crit"). To find out if it's a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to "confirm" the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the confirmation roll also results in a hit against the target's AC, your original hit is a critical hit. (The critical roll just needs to hit to give you a crit, it doesn't need to come up 20 again.) If the confirmation roll is a miss, then your hit is just a regular hit.
OK, that's CRB p184. Hold the thought....
PRD wrote:

Attack Roll

An attack roll represents your attempt to strike your opponent on your turn in a round. When you make an attack roll, you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus. (Other modifiers may also apply to this roll.) If your result equals or beats the target's Armor Class, you hit and deal damage.

Automatic Misses and Hits: A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on an attack roll is always a miss. A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a hit. A natural 20 is also a threat—a possible critical hit (see the attack action).

CRB p178.
Honestly, you cannot get more explicit than that.

You can easily be more explicit: By placing relevant proscribing text in the confirmation section, where it is not presently.

-- Any rule which requires dancing off the currently-being-read paragraph to wander around elsewhere in the book in an attempt to extrapolate the meaning of part of the rule is, by definition, not "explicit". If it were indeed explicit, which it is not, this thread would not exist.

I do not expect that every rule be repeated ad nauseam throughout the book, but very important and commonly-encountered ones ought to be.

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TriOmegaZero wrote:
It took the 3.5 troll both claws and rend to take the 1st level druid to negative 10 in one of my first games. It's unlikely to drop a 3rd level fighter, especially to negative Con.

What I meant is: it has a full-attack plus automatic bonus damage. Most (all?) intro opponents have single attacks. Aside from crits, if that baddie rolls max on his dice versus a 1st-level character a 1hp, that character will not die (he might die in a few rounds, but it's unlikely he took -13 or whatever). The troll? ...3rd-level fighter has been chewed up halfway but is still in the game, but then he eats 25 at once on a couple hot rolls. His eyeballs go XX and he's done.

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Free snickerdoodles! +10
(Pumpkin-spice flavor) -5

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The problems with Unsanctioned Knowledge are multi-fold: you get four spells known. That's it. You don't get extra slots. And: "Once chosen, these spells cannot be changed." And: they're doled out piecemeal one per spell-level, which means you have to wait forever to get the last two. Lastly, it's a feat.

I'm sorry, but that's poop in anything save an utterly cash-starved, hobbits-walking-across-Mordor campaign.

Compare to Dangerously Curious, which is a trait that's good to go right from 1st-level and which opens up ALL magic to those with a little coin, and especially if CHA is their prime-stat. -- How many scrolls and wands of low- and mid-level utility spells can a 14th-level character afford? I dunno...all of them? At least enough to completely stuff a haversack to overflowing.

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Hrothgar Rannúlfr wrote:
However, we often modify level one characters to have more hit points, to make them more durable....

In my experience, 1rd-level characters tend to be a lot more durable than, say, 3rd-level characters. Few into-level opponents can flat-out kill a 1st-level PC by dropping them to neg-CON on anything except a confirmed crit. 3rd-level? GM drops a troll in for claw/claw/rend and, oh dear....

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Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Look at it this way if a natural 1 can hit then a natural 20 can miss. If your character needed a natural 20 to even hit and you managed to roll the natural 20. Then on your conformation roll you rolled another natural 20, but your GM said it was not a critical hit how would you react? My players would be extremely upset.

So? They'll be almost as unhappy rolling back-to-back 19s and not getting a crit, albeit without the wow factor of 1-in-400-times 20+20s (which itself introduces the weird prospect that with sufficiently high AC, the only way to get hurt is to eat 20+20 crits).


...I'm frankly amused that this hasn't been made air-tight explicit in the d20 rule-set through the course of two publishers over a span of going-on eighteen years, given that it's one of the more commonly occurring things in the game.


For my next magic trick, I need to know the DC to jump a 10' pit.

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