As sad as it may sound, I've never really taken the time to read through all the metamagic feats before - my group doesn't tend to take a lot of spellcasters, & I always thought metamagic was just for high-level pc's.
I'm thinking retraining traits might be the way to go here - taking Lineage on a low-level spell, then retraining it to Fireball when necessary. Similar cost to retraining a feat, only go 3 days instead of 5, since a trait is considered 1/2 a feat.
Main question then is which low-level spell to take, & which metamagic to apply. The Reach-Shocking Grasp mentioned earlier sounds interesting. It's still just inside the range for melee, but at least it's doing better damage. Bump it to medium range at 3rd level, and it's good to go for the next couple levels, until Fireball is available. With Lore Seeker, the pc can be doing 5d6+2 electric damage at 4th level with approximately a 21DC at a range of 220'. With admixture, he can then change the element type around 8x/day. Does that seem like a solid option, or is it too weak? If too weak, what other option/s?
It's a pity Brewer has gone away; this is probably my single favorite Guide. Many thanks to ZanThrax for keeping it mirrored and available.
Anyway, a general question. The Maleficium feat chain from Champions of Corruption lets you get the following benefit: "When you apply a metamagic feat to a spell with the evil descriptor, that spell takes up a spell slot 1 level lower than normal (to a minimum of 1 level above the spell’s actual level)." That's pretty nice, but it's balanced by the fact that there are only a few spells with the evil descriptor that will really benefit from it.
However -- the Diabolist prestige class has the Hellfire Admixture power, which lets you swap Hellfire for any other energy type a few times per day. And when you do that, the spell gains the evil descriptor. So, you can get dazing spells for +2 levels instead of +3, empowered spells for +1 instead of +2, and so forth.
I mention this in my recent Guide to the Diabolist, but don't give details except to say "this combination can make you a remarkable blaster". But I'd be interested to hear what you guys think. How would you best use this to build a blaster?
Doug M.
I'm no expert, but I'm not sure that will work. My understanding is the admixture is applied when you cast the spell, not when you prepare it, so the metamagic would go 1st, then the admixture would be sticky after that. Again, not sure about that, so maybe someone can help. If it is good, then that's definitely a strong option.
As sad as it may sound, I've never really taken the time to read through all the metamagic feats before - my group doesn't tend to take a lot of spellcasters, & I always thought metamagic was just for high-level pc's.
I'm thinking retraining traits might be the way to go here - taking Lineage on a low-level spell, then retraining it to Fireball when necessary. Similar cost to retraining a feat, only go 3 days instead of 5, since a trait is considered 1/2 a feat.
Main question then is which low-level spell to take, & which metamagic to apply. The Reach-Shocking Grasp mentioned earlier sounds interesting. It's still just inside the range for melee, but at least it's doing better damage. Bump it to medium range at 3rd level, and it's good to go for the next couple levels, until Fireball is available. With Lore Seeker, the pc can be doing 5d6+2 electric damage at 4th level with approximately a 21DC at a range of 220'. With admixture, he can then change the element type around 8x/day. Does that seem like a solid option, or is it too weak? If too weak, what other option/s?
IMHO, with shocking grasp, you're not only in need of retraining the trait, but also of retraining the feat, because Reach Spell itself is not particularly useful or good from when "real" blast spells become available. I think you'd be better off spending that feat for something universally useful like Spell Focus (evocation) or Improved Initiative.
Burning hands, is a good one, take spell specialization for it, and intensify or empower, you'll be doing crazy damage early, spell specialization automatically can switch to fireball so no problem there. I'd suggest against reach since if you don't need it later you'll have to trade it out, might as well get a feat you want in the first place.
Burning hands, is a good one, take spell specialization for it, and intensify or empower, you'll be doing crazy damage early, spell specialization automatically can switch to fireball so no problem there. I'd suggest against reach since if you don't need it later you'll have to trade it out, might as well get a feat you want in the first place.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, the problem with Burning Hands is the 15' range of the spell. This essentially puts the caster into melee combat. Reach Spell won't work since it doesn't have the close/medium/long range mechanic (only has 15' cone) needed to qualify.
Also, you have to have Spell Focus before you can take Spell Specialization - that's not happening before 3rd level at best unless you are human or are playing PFS (it changes Scribe Scroll to Spell Focus). It also means you're taking Magical Lineage on Burning Hands, which isn't ideal unless you decide to allow retraining of traits (which we were discussing above).
Empower Spell adds 2lvls to a spell, so Lineage won't be enough until 2nd level.
None of this is to say that Burning Hands isn't a decent option - it just has it's drawbacks, of course. I'm simply asking for advice on the best option for the lower levels, but they'll all have drawbacks.
Burning hands, is a good one, take spell specialization for it, and intensify or empower, you'll be doing crazy damage early, spell specialization automatically can switch to fireball so no problem there. I'd suggest against reach since if you don't need it later you'll have to trade it out, might as well get a feat you want in the first place.As mentioned earlier in the thread, the problem with Burning Hands is the 15' range of the spell. This essentially puts the caster into melee combat. Reach Spell won't work since it doesn't have the close/medium/long range mechanic (only has 15' cone) needed to qualify.
Also, you have to have Spell Focus before you can take Spell Specialization - that's not happening before 3rd level at best unless you are human or are playing PFS (it changes Scribe Scroll to Spell Focus). It also means you're taking Magical Lineage on Burning Hands, which isn't ideal unless you decide to allow retraining of traits (which we were discussing above).
Empower Spell adds 2lvls to a spell, so Lineage won't be enough until 2nd level.
None of this is to say that Burning Hands isn't a decent option - it just has it's drawbacks, of course. I'm simply asking for advice on the best option for the lower levels, but they'll all have drawbacks.
Yes it has a lower reach, but you don't need lineage on it, you wont be reaching the dice cap until you have lv 2 spells, so you make meta'd spells there. Using intensify on it to get the damage high until fireball. And yes, take human if you want power lv1. and the range can be overcome since you'll kill them even if they make their save. I move and kill these guys. the rest of the party keeps anyone else off your back.
At level 1 with liquid ice (alchemists' fire cold equivalent) as a focus (not used up) and with your wizard school bonus that's 1d3+2 ranged touch attack.
Not familiar with liquid ice as a focus - what book is it in? I'm allowing anything officially Paizo that's on D20PSFRD (no 3rd party stuff), but it helps if I know where to look...
Same average damage as a light crossbow but you keep your hands free and it's a touch attack.
Exactly what I was thinking (plus, it'll save some gold). :)
Personally I'd ask the GM if he can use the PFS option and swap out scribe scroll for Spell Focus.
I am the GM. I have been considering allowing the swap, but I thought Scribe Scroll would be a handy way to get some extra castings through the day, esp. at lower levels, before the scrolls get too expensive. Just not sure it's worth it vs. Spell Focus...
The player isn't married to playing an elf, so I had given thought to suggesting he go human for the extra feat, but the elf's stat/racial bonuses are mighty appealing. Currently, we've stat'd out the pc as an elf to the player's liking (Str9,Dex16,Con12,Int20,Wis11,Cha8), so I'm hesitant to suggest the change. Background story has him trying to find anything that can help his people recapture Celwynvian from the drow. Taking from the Lore Seeker trait, he's come to Sandpoint to see if the ancient monuments might be the answer he's searching for.
On a side note, the barbarian is looking at taking the Beast Totem, & eventually grabbing C&GM (also, he's going w/ Invulnerable Rager - I think he's gonna be a scary one to fight once he gets around lvl 10 or so).
the range can be overcome since you'll kill them even if they make their save. I move and kill these guys. the rest of the party keeps anyone else off your back.
A good point. Maybe I'm worrying too much about defensive casting here. Even at the 15' range (esp. if I allow the feat swap per PFS), the pc can be doing the 3d4 damage Brewer discussed in the guide - something about killing all the opponents, even though they made their saves. It'll be even worse if I do stick w/ Lore Seeker, but I'm thinking Lineage on Fireball is the better way to go for the long term....
Time for a new guide, this one for the Blockbuster Wizard: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5t2af1cwekhnrkj/BlockWiz.pdf
Oh, I'm trying out Dropbox.com instead of Google Docs - I'm running into issues with them destroying the quality of images embedded in PDFs. Please let me know how good/bad the document quality is for you. If it's suitable, I may start storing my guides in Dropbox instead of Google.
I'm not able to view the file, has it been moved?
I'm not able to view the file, has it been moved?Time for a new guide, this one for the Blockbuster Wizard: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5t2af1cwekhnrkj/BlockWiz.pdf
Oh, I'm trying out Dropbox.com instead of Google Docs - I'm running into issues with them destroying the quality of images embedded in PDFs. Please let me know how good/bad the document quality is for you. If it's suitable, I may start storing my guides in Dropbox instead of Google.
Yeah, the dropbox got inundated. Someone copied it over to another site. I think it was linked a couple pages back.
Edit:
Here's a link. I copied it into my SkyDrive; that'll let people access it until KBrewer can rehost.
Talked to the player tonight & gave him some options, explaining briefly pros & cons. Think we're going to try the blockbuster as Brewer recommended - Lineage on Fireball, I'll allow swapping out Scribe Scroll for Spell Focus (since it's PFS-legal, even though we're a home game), then Spell Specialization starting w/ Burning Hands, changing to Fireball @ 6th level. I recommended taking Intensified Spell @ 3rd level to help keep the damage scaling. He was ok w/ the idea of doing enough damage that being closer to combat wouldn't be relevant very often.
Our discussion on strategy was summed up as "watch your positioning to keep your cohorts out of your field of fire, & stay near either the monk or the ranger!"
I want to take a quick minute & thank all of you for the advice & suggestions that were given - it was VERY helpful. These message boards have a great reputation, & I can say it is totally deserved.
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Rarednaw. I've played two Blockbuster Wizards since this Guide came out. They were both Gnomes, and I had a literal blast with them both. It's both powerful and fun to play. The sheer "blastiness" of the class fits in well with the sheer manic nature that I associate with Gnomes.
Although I have been persuaded to play something else by my group (particularly the GM!) as encounters typically went like this:
GM: Ok, intents....
Me: Fireball!
GM: (sighs) Of course.
-A lot of *insert elemental damage* later-
GM: Ok the minions are all fried, and the BBEG is in a very bad way.
Other Players: Ok, Full Attack!
GM: He goes down on your first hit.
-Everybody glares at me!-
Someone (not me) saved it here.
Now that link is dead as well -.-'
Dot
I want to give a quick thank you and shout out to Brewer, whoever you are. I just got to 3rd level in PFS and my character owes a lot to this guide. I have done some things differently, for example I have max ranks of disable device and no ranks of perception, but largely have followed the advice here. It has been a blast to play at the low levels. Ray of Frost and Burning Hands have carried more than one day. Having 7 strength and charisma is really horrible mechanically but fun to roleplay. Mage Armor has saved my life more than once. The most common reaction to the character is shock at his initiative bonus.
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If Brewer asks me to take it down I will, but otherwise it will be here for some time.
For those looking at the guide, remember that the Crane style feats have been faq'd / errata so look carefully on that portion.
-- david
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I'm not sure why my old link stopped working. Maybe because I moved the local copy of my skydrive folder?
Anyhow, this new link should work.
{Zenith Games Guide to the Guides link}
This one gives me a truncated document (basically just the first page).
If Brewer asks me to take it down I will, but otherwise it will be here for some time.
For those looking at the guide, remember that the Crane style feats have been faq'd / errata so look carefully on that portion.
-- david
This one works. Plan to try to check this -- not now (03:15 in the morning) -- but while I still can.
I'm not sure why my old link stopped working. Maybe because I moved the local copy of my skydrive folder?
Anyhow, this new link should work.
This one fails to load (eternal spinning circle).
EDIT: Despite the late hour, couldn't stop reading the document that I was able to get from the second-to-last link. Almost makes one want to reconsider Professor Q's recommendation not to be a Thassilonian Evocation (Wrath) Specialist (which dumps Conjuration). On the other hand, if you can do BOTH Blockbuster and Controller functions, you can REALLY lay down the hurt . . . .
I'm not sure why my old link stopped working. Maybe because I moved the local copy of my skydrive folder?
Anyhow, this new link should work.
Worked for me.
Still indefinite spinning circle for me, but the link posted before it still works. Which is really weird because for Professor Q's Guide to the Wizard, the Office Online version works better than the Google Docs version, whereas for this one it is the opposite. Go figure . . . .
In the guide, how does the 4th level build example have seven (7) 1st level spells per day?
3 base +2 Int +1 Specialist = 6, right?
cheers
Without versatile evocation, it's pretty weak. You blast a little better than other wizards, but not by much.
I've been toying around with different blaster combos to see if the classic Crossblooded 1/Admixture X can be outdone. There might be some corner cases, using Mythic abilities and what not. But the wizard still seems to remain king.
The big thing I found for the sorceror was that he could use Spontaneous Metafocus to cast his spell of choice without increasing casting time. If you have enough metamagic, this is a really solid thing. Full round casting sorta sucks, but being able to apply just the right metamagic as the situation dictates is a substantial advantage, and it takes Wizards 2 feats to do the same. Sadly, until high levels the sorceror struggles to collect enough metamagic feats to make this worth it without giving up something else, like damage dice, CL, or DCs. Now if you can get a bunch of rods, maybe this edge will be more pronounced.
The Arcanist seems to really win out here for that flexibility though. You can prepare a default Fireball with your basic Empowered/Intensified setup, and use your metamixing to further tweak it as necessary. You can snag the Admixture ability with School Understanding, or use Potent Magic to boost DCs as needed.
Some cool options: build a Dazing Focused Blood Arcanist, with the Arcane Bloodline. This gives you a +1 to your save DC, and you have a lot of tools to make it higher still, especially if you forgo the CL damage boosts.
Alternatively, if going for the traditional damage route, Spell Specialist tacks on an extra DC and let's you shrink a fire ball to avoid toasting buddies, or bend a lightning bolt to catch more targets. Neat!
I created a version of this that at level 5 casts 10d6 Empowered Fireballs.
Race Elf Alt racial trait Fleet-Footed
Str 7
Dex 18
Con 12
Int 20
Wis 7
Cha 7
Traits Wayang Spellhunter (fireball), magical lineage (fireball)
Levels 1-5 Exploiter Wizard
1. Feats: Spell Focus Evocation (free), Spell Specialization (Burning Hands) Exploit (Potent Spell)
Burning Hands 3 times a day for 5d4 dmg.
3. Feat Improved Initiative you no longer need to use Potent spell to increase Burning Hands dmg so you can bump the save DC to 19.
4. Switch Spell Specialization to Fireball.
5. Feat Varisian Tattoo (evocation) Bonus Wizard feat Empower Spell Exploit Familiar (Greensting Scorpion)
At this point you get more Reservoir points then Fireballs so your Fireballs are 5 base +2 Specialization +2 Potent +1 Tattoo 10d6 Empowered Fireballs and an Initiative bonus of +14. Try to pick up a wand of Heightened Awareness for another +4 if you think you are headed into danger.
Level 6 Crossblooded Sorcerer Orc/Draconic (Fire) Let's make that 10d6 +20 before Empowered. By now you should have enough gold for a +2 Int item and a metamagic rod to convert the dmg to I don't know, Electricity maybe.
Level 7+ Back to Exploiter Wizard. Take Intensify metemagic as your feat.
I created a version of this that at level 5 casts 10d6 Empowered Fireballs.
Race Elf Alt racial trait Fleet-Footed
Str 7
Dex 18
Con 12
Int 20
Wis 7
Cha 7Traits Wayang Spellhunter (fireball), magical lineage (fireball)
Levels 1-5 Exploiter Wizard
1. Feats: Spell Focus Evocation (free), Spell Specialization (Burning Hands) Exploit (Potent Spell)
Burning Hands 3 times a day for 5d4 dmg.
3. Feat Improved Initiative you no longer need to use Potent spell to increase Burning Hands dmg so you can bump the save DC to 19.
4. Switch Spell Specialization to Fireball.
5. Feat Varisian Tattoo (evocation) Bonus Wizard feat Empower Spell Exploit Familiar (Greensting Scorpion)At this point you get more Reservoir points then Fireballs so your Fireballs are 5 base +2 Specialization +2 Potent +1 Tattoo 10d6 Empowered Fireballs and an Initiative bonus of +14. Try to pick up a wand of Heightened Awareness for another +4 if you think you are headed into danger.
Level 6 Crossblooded Sorcerer Orc/Draconic (Fire) Let's make that 10d6 +20 before Empowered. By now you should have enough gold for a +2 Int item and a metamagic rod to convert the dmg to I don't know, Electricity maybe.
Level 7+ Back to Exploiter Wizard. Take Intensify metemagic as your feat.
It's a very cool build, although I worry for all it's hyper specialization that you have so few castings of fire ball-- just 2 at level 5. I think I'd rather take a -2 on CL and be able to do it another 1 times (for a normal wizard) or 3 times (for Sin Magic Specialist.)
Also, it occurred to me that if you are OK with giving up some damage, you could take Orc/Arcane. You shave off some damage, but you get the arcane bond, which is way better than either the Orc or Draconic 1st level bloodline power, and you get +2 to your DCs. Which doesn't care if you change the elemental descriptor, meaning you can use school understanding to snag that Admixture power later rather than screw with Elemental Rods.
If you are willing to drop one of the bloodlines for less damage then you can go Tattood Sorcerer as your Archetype with the Orc bloodline. It grants you a familiar and Varisian Tattoo opening up more options. But you lose 15+ damage per fireball. 10d6 + 10 * .5 vs 10d6 + 20 * .5. And once you start using Intensify you lose more.
As with all things there are tradeoffs. My build maximizes damage at the cost of versatility and staying power. The less damage you do the more versatile you become. But then you are playing a regular wizard who dabbles with fire spells and stops when they realize they are not doing enough damage to be worth it.
Worth it strikes me as pretty relative. Being able to drop 4 fire balls instead of 2 is going to lead to more total damage, even if that isn't delivered as quickly. Also, if the rest of the party isn't as optimized, you'll be overshadowing the party when you do blow s$&& up and then feel kinda useless when you aren't. Mileage may vary though!
Edit: Plus, if you have a bunch of short combats, or enemies are too spread to hit in one go, etc... I mean it's a tough like to walk. Hard to know whether if you go the super max damage route that damage will be enough to one shot things that would otherwise live, or whether you will need more fire balls later.
Conversely, if you go for lower damage but more staying power, you might leave something with 15 health that would otherwise have died, and it could kill you next turn.
I put it in my Dropbox at THIS LINK. I will leave it there for a week or so then take it down.
-- david
The original link at the start of thread's been dead for a long time now Backlash, but I have a copy on my onedrive. The link's posted a couple comments up, but I'll post it again to keep it near the end of the thread.
I think you're forgetting the evoker specialist slot. :)
Also, a quick thank you to the author of the guide. This is one of my favorites :-)
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Ironically I had a player last night telling me the only acceptable way to end fights as a wizard (PCs in my game are level 4) is to cast web, fog cloud, and other save-or-suck effects to funnel all enemies into the barbarian since, y'know... she can Cleave.
I sent him a link to this guide. Specialized/Empowered Burning Hands. I'm sorry, WHAT low-level undead minions were you talking about?
Ironically I had a player last night telling me the only acceptable way to end fights as a wizard (PCs in my game are level 4) is to cast web, fog cloud, and other save-or-suck effects to funnel all enemies into the barbarian since, y'know... she can Cleave.
I sent him a link to this guide. Specialized/Empowered Burning Hands. I'm sorry, WHAT low-level undead minions were you talking about?
Everyone knows that the Barbarian's job is to kill the dragon, BBEG or that stupid "Improved Evasion + Reflex save over 9000 Rogue/Monk". :P
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Hey, I found my copy and uploaded it to Google Drive.
Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WjD-2M1NxK_cEg30Ea5rUNOFGbxVb_bY/view?usp= sharing