synjon's page

Many thanks. I tried both Google & the Paizo store, but I was using PZO, not PZ0.

We're not playing PFS, but we are restricted to only those books we own. Sadly, Book of Shadows isn't one of them... yet. :)

Hey all,

I'm trying to figure out which game product this is in, so I can determine if it's allowed in the campaign I'm going to be playing in. According to D20PFSRD, it's in Paizo product PZ09466, but I can't seem to find what product that actually is. Could anyone help me out with this info?

Many thanks!

I think it was the Empyreal bloodline, and I just didn't remember that it was a sorcerer-only thing. I've been reading a lot of optimization guides lately...

Thanks for the help!

I could swear I've read somewhere about a trait/feat/something that allows a dwarf to use Wisdom instead of Charisma for his casting stat, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. I think it had 'Sage' in the title. I've tried some searching here, but I'm rather pressed for time. Does anyone know/remember what I'm talking about, and help me find it in the rules?

Many thanks!

Thanks, that was very helpful. Given the character, I wouldn't be surprised if his nickname ends up being"Jerk". Lol

Alain Germande, Third Son of the House Germande, is the iconic cavalier, but I don't know how to pronounce his name (never got around to taking French in high school).

I've found thread's or sources giving pronunciations for virtually all of the other iconic classes, but I can't find anything for Alain. So if there's any kind of official word on this, I'd really appreciate it I someone could share it. And if not, could we get an official word on how to produce this guy's name?

Many thanks!

Well, it's less "fair" and more "the actual price". XD

Fair enough ;)

1 )My group isn't big on min/max'ing or exploiting rules - they care more about flavor & having fun. So I try to be reasonable when they make a request. Not that they always get what they want...

2) Technically, it's a cane. We like to have pictures of out characters - the picture he chose has a cane. He gave serious consideration to a ring, but the cane won.

3) His main concern is not having a free hand to cast with if he's holding both his staff & a metamagic rod, forcing him to take Still Spell.

4) We've discussed (and I'll probably allow) him putting some other enhancements/spells on the staff, as long as it doesn't get carried away - including, perhaps a +1 weapon enhancement (which should also increase durability, if I understand correctly). The weapon enhancement would probably come first, so I'm not sure how that changes the pricing - if he were just putting the metamagic feat on the staff, the 1.5x price several folks have recommended seems fair. I believe it gets modified further if the item is already magical - or does being an arcane bond already cover that?

Thank you all very much for the input so far, you've been very helpful!

The bonded staff is non-negotiable. He understands there will be some risk, but he also knows I'm not the type of GM to be an a** about it.

Oh, and the character is just a wizard, not a Magus - the staff just fits the character concept. He intends to avoid combat S much as possible.

My player wanted to know if he could add a single Metamagic feat to his arcane-bonded staff? His thought was if he could do that, and then take a couple Metamagic feats himself, he could avoid the need for a rod, and thus avoid having both hands full.

I'm not opposed to the idea, but I wanted to make sure if was allowed under the rules first. After that, I just wasn't sure how it would be priced.

Basically, can you create a Metamagic staff, instead of a rod? If yes, how would it be priced?

If no, why not?

I can't find anything stating what effect, if any, a thunderstone has on bardic performance. Since the stone causes deafness (20% failure on spells with a somatic component), I would think it should impact the performance in some way.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

Finally got some time to talk to the player. He's said that if the anagram idea doesn't work, he'd like more of a hobbit-type name, since he's a LotR fan.

We're having more difficulty with the anagram idea than expected - everything I've come up with so far sounds more like a gnome than a halfling name. My player is thinking about dropping the anagram idea, IF we can find a good regular bard name. Although funny, he doesn't want anything like Bardy McBardface (but plays on words/phrases are ok if they're more subtle)....

Suggestions welcome!

Rennaivx wrote:

Playing around with an online anagrammer, I found the following possibilities:

• Ambrosia Dole
  
• Dalio Ambrose
  
• Marabis Doole
  
• Marse Diabolo
  
• Biramose O'dal
  
• and probably many, many more!

I linked it so you can play around with it too if you like. :)

And if none of those are suitable then I am sure that Bardy McBardface would be fine ;)

Ironically, our group generally doesn't like those kind of names.

Still, it was fun to read... :)

Playing around with an online anagrammer, I found the following possibilities:

• Ambrosia Dole
  
• Dalio Ambrose
  
• Marabis Doole
  
• Marse Diabolo
  
• Biramose O'dal
  
• and probably many, many more!

I linked it so you can play around with it too if you like. :)

Thanks very much, both for the suggestions, and the link!!

Need to name a halfling bard. Grew up in Magnimar, now in Sandpoint (running RotRL).

The player wants the name to be an anagram of the phrase I'm so adorable - prefer a first & last name, but will consider other suggestions. The apostrophe may be used, but isn't required.

I've never been good at anagrams, so any/all help would be appreciated.

Going with either Lineage or Metamagic Master, not both. Yeah, it'll be impressive later, but I don't want all the eggs in one proverbial basket.

Still undecided on Reactionary vs Arcane Temper, although Reactionary will probably get the nod unless I get a really compelling argument otherwise....

It's the direction I was going anyway, but Spell Specialization to BH it is, then. May still give him MM as a backup, as the range & ability to affect incorps could still come in handy.

The dip into cross-blooded sorcerer can be decided another day, but it'll get serious consideration at that time. Thinking mid-levels is a good place for it, if I decide to do it.

Thanks for the opinions so far...

Was leaning towards Reactionary/Magical Lineage, pretty much for those reasons. Debate with Arcane Temper was if splitting the bonuses might be worth considering since Initiative was already +7, even without Improved Initiative - a +1 concentration, while not much, might still come in handy for those situations where something unexpected happens. But perhaps I'm making too much out of that. My oldest son, who plays in another game with friends that's much tighter/stricter on the rules than we play, told me he doesn't really feel concentration checks come up all that often in his other game (since the wizard 'plays smart').

Agree that BH will do more damage, although a little concerned about the range. MM just had enough things going for it, including affecting incorporeals (may or may not come up, but nice if it does) to make it a tough choice.

Willing to consider the dip - when would you do it, & which bloodlines? Guessing draconic/orc? Only issue might be his 9 Cha - or is that really an issue for a 1-level dip to get bonus damage from the bloodlines?

Forgot to mention he's going Admixture school, so he'll be able to adjust the elemental damage type on the fly. That's one of the key items in the Blockbuster build.

Also, need to pick two traits - the options above were for combinations, not either/or. So taking either Reactionary & Magical Lineage OR Metamagic Master & Arcane Temper (OR Magical Lineage & Arcane Graduate - as mentioned above, it was considered).

Not that Reactionary isn't a solid choice, mind you. But getting a free level of metamagic isn't anything to sneeze at, either... Actually, that's kind of the problem - they're all good, solid choices.

Building a combination blockbuster/god wizard for our RotRL campaign. Need help deciding between the following options:

* Magical Lineage/Reactionary: Currently has +7 Initiative (+3 Dex, Compsagnathus familiar). Lineage would go on Fireball.

* Metamagic Master/Arcane Temper: Temper would give smaller boosts, but to two useful abilities instead of one (Initiative + Concentration). Metamagic Master would also go on Fireball.

I use D20PFSRD (Paizo only) for what is allowed in the game. Metamamgic Master was originally Wayang Spellhunter, but since it doesn't list as such on the site, I don't generally nitpick about it. Also considered Arcane Graduate/Magical Lineage, but I felt like concentration checks shouldn't be as big a deal if the character is smart enough to stay out of melee. Speaking of which, any thoughts on putting Spell Specialization on either Burning Hands or Magic Missile? Currently, we're going with BH, but MM was very tempting due to range & no miss chance...

The character's concept is based off the Outlander (Loreseeker) campaign trait, but decided we could roleplay it without needing to take the trait.

Any advice would be appreciated. If any extra info is needed to clarify, please let me know. Thank you in advance!

That's what I thought, but wasn't quite sure.

Thanks!

Benefit You gain a +1 trait bonus on Knowledge (arcana) checks, and Knowledge (arcana) is a class skill for you. If you cast arcane spells, pick three spells on your spell list. You are particularly adept at casting these spells, so they function at +1 caster level when you cast them, and their save DCs (if any) gain a +1 bonus.

My question is what spell list should be used here? If it refers to the spells in the wizard's spellbook, it only affects a handful of 1st level & all of the 0-level spells - nice enough for a trait, but not nearly as interesting; if it's referring to the main list of available wizard's spells, it becomes waay cooler...

If you think about what CMD affects, that +1 actually covers quite a bit - trips, steals, over runs, bull rushes, sunders, etc....

Personally, I don't think it's overpriced at all, FWIW.

Caphorite Dust: This small leather pouch is filled with a faintly radioactive ore called caphorite, with a small percentage of reactants that activate the dust. When used, caphorite dust must be sprinkled in a 5-foot square, which then becomes the center of the dust's effect. All bright or normal light within 30 feet of the activated dust is reduced to dim light, and any creature attempting to cast a spell with the light descriptor in this area must succeed at a DC 15 caster level check or have spell's effect be negated. If caphorite is exposed to sunlight, it immediately becomes permanently inert. Each pouch contains enough dust for two applications. Crafting this item requires a successful DC 25 Craft -(alchemy) check.

It's called Dimmer Dust on D20PFSRD, but regardless, my ninja pc is interested in buying some. However, I have a couple of rules questions that I'm not sure how to handle...

First, how long does this effect last? Given the cost, I wouldn't think it would be more than a round or two at most.

Second, it states the dust is permanently inert if exposed to sunlight - I assume this doesn't pertain to sprinkling to apply it? That would seem to negate a major use/purpose of the item.

Some help please?! (and thank you, in advance!)

EDIT: If I were the GM, I'd allow the PC to trade out Poison use for Magical Trap disarming, straight up. One is going to be a useless ability, the other is situationally useful and both are around the same power level. I wouldn't give them the scaling bonus to Perception and Disable Device that Rogues get, but it makes for a better party member to my mind.

Forgot to mention that I discussed this with him - he was initially interested in poison use until I explained how quickly it becomes useless. At that point, he decided to switch out for Disarm Magic Traps.

Ok, probably the last update:

* He finalized the single wakizashi, with plans to go TWF at 3rd level (he'll pick up the 2nd one at that time).

* Armor will be a haramaki - he likes the eastern-theme over padded armor. Will move into better armors as he levels, probably into studded leather 1st, and then eventually a mithral chain shirt.

* Ranged combat will focus on shuriken initially, but getting a short bow will be one of the 1st priorities. This was partly due to finances - he really wants to have some extra gold to pick up a couple fun alchemical items.

* Dodge has been swapped out for PBS, to help the shuriken attacks. Will also benefit when he does get the short bow.

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions/advice!

Also, a masterwork shield isn't viable for the 1st couple levels, so he's taking a -1 on his attacks whenever he wields a shield. Besides, in how many movies have you ever seen a ninja using a shield?? :)

* He's pretty set on going with the wakizashi's, so no katana. Again, the only real question was about going TWF right at 1st level, which he's decided against - he'll pick it up at 3rd.

* Looked up brigandine armor - studded leather now makes a lot more sense, and is definitely an option. It was originally eastern, and was introduced to the west when they invaded; easy to adapt in this context. Made to be worn under regular clothing, or look like clothing. Go with a dark color for the outer layer of cloth, use a flat-finish for the studs to eliminate glare, and you've got a solid choice for ninja armor.

* He was doing some research while I was at work, and saw the Additional Traits feat. He's considering it if he goes with the studded leather, so he can take Armor Master to eliminate the ACP on the studded leather (that would also eliminate the need for mithral on a chain shirt, should he want to go that route later) - he could also pick up Crowd Dodger for the bonuses to moving through an occupied space/leaving a threatened square. He wants to keep Blood of the Dragon & Favored Son (Ameiko).

One of the advantages of school being out is the chance to talk to my son just about every day.... so here's what he's decided on so far:

For armor, he decided to go with haramaki armor, since it's wearable under clothing. He's going to into leather later, and possibly a chain shirt (masterwork/magic of course) at higher levels.

In melee combat, he's going to use a single wakizashi to start with, mostly due to cost. He's only got 140gp to work with, and he doesn't want to blow half of it on just the wakizashi's, since he also wants to pick up some cool accessories (alchemical, etc).

Ranged combat will be a combo of shuriken when he wants to be stealth/SA, and a short bow when he wants/needs to keep out of range of enemies. The big debate is whether to pick up PBS or Dodge for his (human) bonus feat - so far, Dodge is winning because of wearing lighter armor.

Clothing will be a pickpocket's outfit, styled to look more like a traditional ninja's outfit - the bonus to hiding small objects will be useful for shuriken & extra little surprises.

We're still working on the extra goodies...

To the various points, in no particular order:

* Yes, he's committed to being a human. Halfling stats/abilities for a ninja are great, but he wanted to stay human this time.

* Press to the Wall is definitely a feat to consider. Big Game Hunter is another (campaign) feat I will be highly recommending as well to most/all the melee capable pc's.

* No third-party stuff is allowed.

* He definitely wants to go with TWF - the only question was whether to do it immediately at 1st level, or to wait until 3rd. At this point, he's leaning towards waiting. If he decides to drop Dodge, he's saying he'll probably go with PBS instead.

* Trading out Poison Use for Disarm Magic Traps sounds like an idea I may want to use. I've never been a big fan of poison use, because of how quickly it becomes ineffective, so that sounds reasonable and far more useful to me.

* Still debating what he wants to do with armor...

I've been meaning to pick up both Ranged Tactics Toolbox & Melee Tactics Toolbox - guess now I have an excuse! Definitely will check out the kunai idea - he's a fan of Naruto, so that would appeal to him.

We had originally decided to stay away from poisons, largely because they become ineffective so quickly. However, I will have to look at the bronze shuriken idea.

Was planning to make the pickpocket outfit resemble the traditional ninja outfit - the sandals are cool, but he's keen on the ninja tabai boots.

Definitely planning to pick up thieves' tools, but not sure how useful the disguise kit will be in this AP.

Some great suggestions so far! Do you folks have anything more for 1st level stuff? Still want to address armor, and possibly a couple cheap(er) alchemical items...

If you are planning to ever reach into level 6 - 10 using the finesse rogue talent will be a more efficient use of feats than using a feat to gain weapon finesse. Not necessary but helps later ones I have found with my own 11th level ninja.

We looked at that option, but a lot of the ninja tricks are better than feats. He was looking through them to plan what he wanted to do, & got waaay too excited when he saw & read about Vanishing Trick/Invisible Blade...

sorry my mistake.

It's all good - I really appreciate the advice you threw out for me!

Less worried about melee weapons, & more on the other stuff...

He's referring to the fact that I'M THE GM... lol

And yeah, I'll probably allow it later...

As well as the feat, if he decides he wants it.

Actually, it's my son's ninja for my RotRL campaign. I'll put some of the basic stat info in the spoiler below. The character is going to be a Sandpoint native, working as a salesclerk in the display room of the Glassworks as he secretly trains to be a ninja. As far as his role in the party, with an invulnerable rager barbarian & a reach-combat inquisitor, he's planning on being the flanker/precision-damage guy. The bard is going to be the party face, & the zen-archer monk will handle primary ranged combat.

Everything has been going smooth so far, but we're needing help with the equipment.

*Clothing: There doesn't seem to be anything I can find for ninja outfits or other eastern wear. Unless something else is discovered, he'll probably have to go with a pickpocket's outfit.

*Armor: The pc will be wearing a standard ninja-type outfit, so my son wants to keep the armor light enough to wear under his outfit. At this point, we're looking mostly at a haramaki, with the idea of moving up to a mithral chain shirt or a dark leaf hide shirt later on (which is partly why the choice of Dodge).

*Weapons: My son has decided to start with a wakizashi, with the intent of moving to TWF @ 3rd level - although there was some debate about going with TWF right @ 1st level. Regardless, the big question is what direction to go for ranged; the primary options being considered are shuriken, a short bow & a light crossbow (in that order).

*General: Ideas/suggestions for fun little ninja stuff - smoke pellets come to mind as a good example.

Keep in mind the character will have average starting wealth. But any advice/suggestions/random thoughts would be welcome & appreciated.

So a little peak under the hood about RotRL, you end up fighting a lot of creatures with reach. The first 2 books are mostly creatures without reach, but book 3 on, you are fighting large or bigger creatures pretty much all the way through. What this means is that the AoOs are going to be come a lot less frequent unless she has a means of becoming large and/or increasing her reach regularly. That being said, there are a lot of situations where reach will come in handy and AoOs will be plentiful in the first two books (tight hallways/rooms & bunches of minions without reach). That makes Temple Guard strong right out of the gate, but it tapers off later in game. Since Inquisitors don't get Enlarge Person or Long Arm as spells and I don't know of any Inquisitor spells that increase size or reach, that means that the Trait will become a very infrequent bonus. That makes the Tactician initiative mod more valuable, while still boosting one AoO a day.

All this is presuming that the party moves tactically and allows for reach tactics to work. Nothing screws up that style of play more than other PCs. The reach thing can also be helped by the rest of her party or magic items/consumables to increase her doughnut of threateningTM.

TLDR = Either look pretty good. She doesn't have any glaring holes so choosing one is like choosing chocolate over vanilla.

There are a couple of feats that can help when dealing with reach/larger opponents - Big Game Gunter, Death or Glory & Lunge all come to mind. Plus, the party has a wizard & a bard, so there will be some magic options beyond what the inquisitor can cast herself.

Even without the AoO's on the larger creatures, she'll benefit simply by having the reach weapon giving her the same range as they have - she won't provoke herself when trying to close with them.

And personally, I like both chocolate & vanilla. :D

(I don't know how to make cool-looking emoti's in my messages)

I'm planning on toning that section down a bit, as my 11-yr old son will be playing in the game.

And so, of course, my future daughter-in-law changed her mind. She's decided she'd rather go with the conversion inquisition, dropping charisma to 10 & bumping wisdom to 15 (we tend to not dump attributes, as we believe in role-playing to your attributes).

She also likes going with Divine Favor/Fate's Favored, but is uncertain if she wants to go with Temple Guard or Charming for her 2nd trait. I'm considering allowing the +1 save DC from the trait to apply to the Swaying Word ability - at one time per day, I don't see it as particularly unbalancing, and I think it fits the theme nicely....

If you know RotRL, then you know I am not joking when I say this:

I hope your PCs don't get raped.

From the look on the face of your avatar Blackbloodtroll, I feel like this may be dredging up painful memories for you....

"Y'all got a purty mouth!" - pretty sure that line is going to get used at some point during Hook Mountain Massacre....

Got to talk to the player today - she doesn't want to try changing classes, as she loves the picture we found to represent her character & she really likes the character's backstory.

I presented the options regarding domains/inquisitions listed above. I tried to be as neutral as possible, explaining what I felt were advantages & possible disadvantages for both domains & the 3 inquisitions. Her 1st decision was to decide that she would go with Fate over Luck if she decided on a domain. Next was the decision to choose Heresy if she decided on an inquisition (although Conversion was, she said, a really close second).

Then it became a choice between Fate & Heresy. After talking over a little more how the game mechanics worked for each, she decided she wants to go with the Fate subdomain. Although she liked the flavor of the Heresy inquisition, she was concerned about enemies making their Will saves at higher levels. She liked the ability to affect both allies & enemies with the Tugging Strands ability @ 8th level, as well as the chance to give allies two rolls to choose from with Bit of Luck.

We also determined she wanted to keep her stats as they currently are (STR 16, DEX 14, CON 13, INT 10, WIS 14 & CHA 12). With taking a domain instead of an inquisition, she wanted to keep a little bit of charisma so she could at least be competent in regards to her 'face' skills (re-explained that charisma & looks aren't really tied together when going over the inquisitions).

As far as feats, she kept Combat Reflexes & Toughness. She decided to go with Fate's Favored for her first trait (Divine Favor will be one of her 1st-level spells).

The only thing she wasn't able to decide on before she had to go back to school (local university) was whether to take Temple Guard or Tactician for her 2nd trait - she's leaning towards Temple Guard for the flat +1 to her AoO's, although the +1 initiative was appealing (I was about to point out she can take Improved Initiative later when we ran out of time).

If anyone has any thoughts on choosing between Temple Guard & Tactician, it would be appreciated. Otherwise, thanks to everyone for all the advice & suggestions - the overwhelming support for Fate's Favored was definitely a help, as well as the advice to swap STR & WIS.

So if she wants to play pretty, why are you going inquisitor? This sounds like a job for a bard. Probably an archaeologist bard. Bloodrager is also a really good option.

That would be because my oldest son (her fiancée) is playing a halfling bard as the party face/supporter - it's one of the only classes/roles he hasn't played in a game yet, & he really wanted to try it.

Fate's Favored is really a must.

As a second choice, anything that pumps Initiative is good.

The choice to go with a Polearm, and Combat Reflexes, you may want to consider Tianjing Temple Guard, which gives you a flat +1 trait bonus on attacks of opportunity made with Polearm weapons.

I was personally debating between recommending either Temple Guard or Tactician, to go with Fate's Favored. The flat, constant bonus to AoO's is really tempting since it's a core part of her build, but the +1 to initiative/ +2 to a single AoO/day is pretty sweet as well - that bonus can be saved for when she really can't afford to miss. Charming normally wouldn't be that great, but it becomes a lot more attractive if she picks an inquisition instead of a domain (see below), and it TOTALLY fits the character's background. Paragon of Speed would never be a bad choice (too much initiative? Uh, how about NO!), but I think the other options fit her background better.

Upon re-examining the domains & inquisitions, I've decided there are 2 domains and 3 inquisitions I'll recommend.

The two domain choices are either sticking with Luck, or switching off to the Fate subdomain. It'll boil down to whether she prefers getting the re-rolls herself a couple levels earlier, or being able to use them to influence friend or foe. Personally, I feel the second choice gives more flexibility.

As far as inquisitions, I'm recommending Conversion, Heresy and Reformation. They all sub the WIS modifier on certain skills, thus justifying the increase in wisdom. Two of them also allow limited re-rolls on the relevant skill checks. As hinted at above, the 8th level powers would be helped by the Charming trait - an increase in the save DC will be very helpful, and the skill bonuses are just gravy.

I think Conversion's Dominate Person ability is the best of the three - definitely better than the Charm Person from Reformation. Heresy's Word of Anathema can definitely be useful, as well. A -4 to attacks, saves & ability/skill checks at the right time can certainly be a difference-maker.

However, Conversion loses points for not granting limited skill re-rolls at 4th level like the other two do. Also, it would have been great had Heresy given Stealth as a class skill, since it's giving re-rolls on it. Heresy has probably the best fit into the character's background. Reformation is probably my least favorite of the three overall.

Feel free to pepper me with more comments, lol. It's been a long day, & I need to get some sleep.

10 is not a dump.

Charisma is not be all, end all, of looks.

No disagreement here.

Attribute and Domain/Inquisition suggestions are just that. Suggestions.

You can ignore them.

Stick with 12, if you want.

I still suggest the Reformation Inquisition. It is mechanically, and more important, thematically, fitting.

A fair point. I honestly hadn't looked at the inquisitions that closely, as most of the optimization guides I've read don't seem to rate them very well - even though we aren't optimization fanatics, I still find the guides quite useful.

You've given some good advice in the past. So, I'll take a closer look at the inquisitions.

I'd still really like to get some more input on trait selection, though. As stated above, Fate's Favored seems very popular, but what about the 2nd trait?

Hmm wrote:

Yeah, but girls often like having a positive charisma on their characters for the "pretty" factor. Especially if one is doing Shelyn and has perform, diplomacy and other charisma based skills...

Yeah, that exactly...

I can go on about the mechanical/optimization benefits of dumping CHA all day - she's not going to do it. She's already stated she wants at least a little bit of CHA, and to be 'pretty,' or she doesn't want to play the character. Doesn't matter if it's not the most 'optimized' thing to do or not. And if she doesn't play, my son won't play. And if my son doesn't play, it's no longer family time - so then my wife won't play. So there goes half my group.

With all respect, the question/advice currently being sought is in regards to what traits would be recommended, not what attributes and domain/inquisition should be taken....

My player was able to stop by this evening. After our conversation, we determined the following:

- Swap WIS & STR. As stated above, the pc will be a melee reach build, using AoO's to make martial attacks. As the 2ndary melee, this was an easy change to recommend.

-Choose Combat Reflexes & Toughness for feats. Combat Reflexes will be crucial to the reach build working, (especially in the 1st few levels), while Toughness will aid in the pc's survivability, as commented on above. Consideration is still being given to Additional Traits, though.

-Narrow traits to following; Paragon of Speed, Temple Guard, Fate's Favored, Tactician & Charming. Paragon of Speed gives a better initiative bump & Temple Guard is better for the AoO's, but Tactician balances the two nicely. Fate's Favored, as everyone above pointed out, gives a very nice bonus to attack & damage, making it quite interesting. Charming makes the list purely on RP/fluff merits, as the player feels it very much represents the character's life before becoming an inquisitor.

Of those, Tactician, Fate's Favored & Charming are the ones she was most interested in, but she wanted me to try to get additional input before she comes back to finalize it.

I always hesitate recommending a player rely on stat-boosting items to get the scores needed for spell levels - lose the item, & suddenly you can't cast your most powerful spells. Same thing applies to boosting DEX with an item to qualify for TWF or it's upgrades. Losing a stat boost to STR or CON will most certainly hurt, of course, but you character won't suddenly lose a significant/important part of his build.

As a result, I would normally recommend a couple of the level increases go into WIS (although not until later - perhaps 8/12 or even 12/16). I'd probably suggest the 1st one go into CON, to help with HP & FORT, or perhaps STR (along with the final level increase, if the group makes it to 20).

This isn't to say that stat-boosting items for those attributes aren't still desirable, just that a character shouldn't be over-reliant on them.

It seems that Fate's Favored is clearly a top choice for the 1st trait. Any other thoughts on the 2nd trait? So far, I've got a vote for Tactician, but that's it.

I was thinking Paragon of Speed (+2 initiative) would probably be better than Tactician - not sure how often that damage bonus in surprise rounds will come in handy.

Toughness is probably the safest choice for the extra feat, for the reasons stated above. Judgment Surge was the other one I was considering recommending - end the fight faster, & all that.

So, what about the trait's? Fate's Favored (faith) is now on the radar, but that would still leave a second choice. Thoughts? Here are the traits again:

(combat) Tactician
(magic) Overwhelming Beauty
(faith)Birthmark, Schooled Inquisitor
(regional) Paragon of Speed, Temple Guard, True Believer
(social) Charming, Suspicious

I must say that participating in the play test was very informative and somewhat fun. That said, I certainly think it was too short. Seriously, the play test could benefit a lot from being one or two months longer.

I'm happy to see that you addressed most of my first point posted here (I would still put metamagic feat in plural, since a spell could conceivably be prepared with more than one applied, but that's fairly minor). The second point, however, could still be cleared up, so I'll repost it:

2 - It isn't clear if the Arcanist needs to prepare spells every day. The way it stands now, I'd say that the Arcanist only needs to prepare spells when she wants to change her loadout, or to take advantage of new spell slots due to leveling up. That's fine by me, but I'm not sure that's your intent. A simple clarification, saying "The Arcanist must prepare spells every day." or "The Arcanist doesn't need to prepare spells each day. If she doesn't, she can still cast the spells she had prepared beforehand." would be nice.

I think having less spells per day would only make the class a pain in the ass to play and barely impact the balance issue.

I respectfully disagree. Back in 3.5, people played as Battle Sorcerers (-1 spell known and spell per day per spell level, + a few bonuses that made it more martially-oriented), still had fun and could still contribute meaningfully to a party. If the Arcanist could prepare one less spell per level, for example, it would still be a "Sorcerer on steroids" (casting-wise) that traded set options for a flexible way to learn and cast spells. I think it would balance out nicely: the choice between playing an Arcanist or a Sorcerer would be less one sided, but at the same time neither class would be invalidated. Meanwhile, I also don't think the balance with the Wizard would be much affected. Besides, it opens up design space for FCBs and archetypes to increase those spells prepared. Of course, this is all IMHO.

Here is where my mind on things is right now

The Wizard does things by the book. He's got the formulas down, he knows how it all works and he understands all the bits and pieces.

The Sorcerer grabs a handful of magic and throws it. It's all instinct and in born talent. His spells are written in his DNA. The Why or how of them doesn't matter he just Knows them. Ask him how he casts spells and he just shrugs and says "well you just kind of grab that twisty bit and go Zam and then Woosh and stuff explodes"

Then there is the Arcanist. The dilettante. He's got a little bit of natural talent and a lot of book learning,but he's also got that hint of instinct that says "why not just give it a twist here" or thinks "what if we just swap that crystal for a couple of glass eyes and a chicken foot, no trust me this'll work"

He's the scruffy kid in chemistry class who gives you a wink and says "want to see something cool?"

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MacGuyver

He's the MacGuyver of Wizards

So... The Arcanist should be a master of magic itself, not of the workings of magic or the source of magic, huh? I like this. Extreme care must be taken to not translate this into raw power, I guess, but nifty little abilities can be thought out without increasing the power level. For example: the Arcanist could have an ability that lets him prepare spells with a swapped energy descriptor, such as a Cold Fireball, or an Acid Lightning Bolt. And then you could have an expendable resource to change the energy on the fly. Hmmm... Again, I like this.

EDIT: Hmmm... This could be extended to metamagic. You could prepare a metamagicked spell like a Wizard, or spend the resource to apply it on the fly! Ideas, ideas.

Hey there folks,

There is some great discussion in this thread. We are working on some big solutions for this class that I am hoping to share with all of you later on today. Keep a look out for it later this afternoon.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Awesome! And boooo! I hate being at GMT -2. I never know what you guys mean by "later this afternoon". D:

Larkas wrote:

Adam Teles wrote:

You bring up the idea of a Genius, but our geniuses historically aren't people who have something special other than intelligence...

I respectfully disagree. Leonardo Da Vinci was both a genius and a natural talent. If he were a spellcaster (as I'm pretty sure he'd be if magic was real! =D), he would be perfectly represented by the Arcanist, I think. Well, at least the Arcanist idealized by Nildayre. :)

See, my issue here, I think, is that I see that natural talent as being... a giant intelligence score. Leonardo Da Vinci was really smart and also really smart. With Arcanist, we're trying to attribute this "above and beyond" as some sort of innate magic, but because that doesn't have an analog in real life, we've just got someone who's above and beyond by virtue of a high int. Also, I think you could reasonably have a "genius" in any class. One could be a "Genius" wizard, understanding magic better than any other, but one could also be a "Genius" bard who wrote and performed wonderful unique songs (see: Freddy Mercury, Paul McCartney), or even a "Genius" Fighter who knew a great many different combat styles and managed to combine them in ways noone else had.

It sounds like a more appropriate feel would be sort of what the Bard always is: someone who feels the magic and understands it and yes they have to learn and practice but they control it with a mix of both logical understanding and internal feeling.

Hmmmm, differing perceptions, I guess. For me, a Wizard would be an engineer, while a Sorcerer would be an artist. The Arcanist could be the middle point between them, which in my example could be an architect. Being a successful architect requires a good deal of knowledge (hence, intelligence), but also requires a good deal of "feeling" (which, I think, better relates to charisma). Not discounting your point, by the way, just expressing how I feel about it. :)

You bring up the idea of a Genius, but our geniuses historically aren't people who have something special other than intelligence...

I respectfully disagree. Leonardo Da Vinci was both a genius and a natural talent. If he were a spellcaster (as I'm pretty sure he'd be if magic was real! =D), he would be perfectly represented by the Arcanist, I think. Well, at least the Arcanist idealized by Nildayre. :)

The way I see the arcanist class is borne out of comparison to the Wizard and the Sorcerer.

Consider: The wizard studies magic, through the lens of school specializations. Think of it like a college student. You can study communications, psychology, economics, sociology, history or politics. However, at the core of all of these fields you're really trying to understand how humans work, just in different fields.

A sorcerer on the other hand, intuitively understands magic. She can cast spells simply by feeling them out. Think of her like the person at a party who just gets people. She is the natural salesman, or the magnetic politician. They just "get it." Unlike the college guy who studies people through academic fields, she knows the same things intuitively.

The arcanist represents something in-between. The current interpretation I'm seeing from a lot of people is that the arcanist is a "sorcerer who ended up going to school." I think that's cheating the potential of the class.

I prefer to think of the arcanist as a "genius." Schoepenhauer said, "talent hits the target no one else can hit, genius hits the target no one else can see."

Perhaps the arcanist studies magic in a way neither (or any) class has before. They see the next step in understanding how it interacts with the world. This is why they can cast in a semi-spontaneous way. They understand the spell, but more importantly, they understand the way magic works with the universe. They have more refined control over magic than either the sorcerer or the wizard.

If I could influence the class, I would dump the blood pool concept. Instead, I would add a series of abilities surrounding the motif of magical genius. Allow the arcanist more control over the effects of his or her spells. Let them change things like area, range and duration and element type. They already look to be focused on fluidity, embrace it, and separate them thematically from the sorcerer and wizard.

I'll spend some time tday thinking of more specifics on an...

This and Adam Teles' ideas are very good. As it stands, the Arcanist wants to be a middle point between Sorcerer and Wizard. While it succeeds at the spellcasting mechanic (issues I brought up earlier aside), it is, so far, failing a lot at the rest. The mechanics from both parent classes are somewhat incompatible and, IMHO, could be exclusive. PF went through great lengths to differentiate the Sorcerer from the Wizard, greatly succeeding at this because, while the spell list is exactly the same, the features make the classes play very differently from one another. Those features were made to be discrete, and are going to be a pain to simply merge.

I propose taking a step back, ditching the features' purely mechanical merge (at least for now) and embracing a more "conceptual merge". Nildayre's remarks accomplish exactly that. It is a more holistic analysis of the Arcanist itself, as its own character and not merely as a merge from the parent classes. It is by no means simple, but thinking about how a character might live in its world (vs. thinking how a class might play) might give interesting and impacting hints of what it should be able to accomplish with its class features.

IMHO, the Arcanist doesn't _need_ to be a mechanical middle point between the Sorcerer and the Wizard. It can be a conceptual middle point while at the same time forming a mechanical triangle with the other two vertices classes.

I must say that I quite like mostly everything I've seen in ACG so far. However, the Arcanist just seems... Odd. It's not that it's bad or something, it's just that I feel that it needs a more work. A few points, if I might be so bold.

1) The basic fluff

As it stands, the Arcanist is sold as a character that didn't have enough "blood power" to become a Sorcerer. To make up for it, it mimicked the Wizard's path.

I can picture a few Arcanists' backstories being just like that. It is, however, a pity to imply that this is the "standard" way an Arcanist is to be created. An Arcanist could just as well be a person that discovered its blood power, but decided to take a scholarly approach to tapping it. Likewise, it could be a Wizard's apprentice that discovered there was power in his blood, but was too familiar with its master's ways to tap it wildly like a Sorcerer could.

In my humble opinion, a class's background description should be as evocative as possible. A larger "character design space" can lead to funnier, deeper and more varied stories and backstories. The current Arcanist fluff is too narrow, and too shallow. I think that, by showing that the Arcanist can be "a smart guy who wants to tap his blood's power systematically", "a methodical mind who can't wrap his head around the wildness of a Sorcerer's casting", or "a mage-apprentice that uses his latent powers as a shorthanded way to attain what his professors would want him to get with pure wit" just as well as "a person with just a little bit of power in his blood that has to research just how to tap it" will make more people more interested, and even excited, in trying it.

Again IMHO, I think that having a possible "underdog" backstory can be nice. Making it "default", much less so.

2) The spellcasting

Oh, the spellcasting... I have a feeling that this will be a constant topic when talking about this class... Anyways, I like that you guys wanted to find a middle ground between the Sorcerer and the Wizard here. The Wizard may be too fiddly and the Sorcerer, too limited to a few players. Trying to find a balance between the two is a good thing, and I feel there is space for this in the game. Trying to _balance_ that, however, can be quite hard... And I feel that you guys missed the mark a bit. =/ Let me tackle each topic at a time.

2a) Spells per day

I think that this is somewhat spot on. It's a compromise between the Wizard and the Sorcerer. I don't feel it encroaches on their territory, either: the Wizard can find ways around his lower limit, and the Sorcerer is spammy as always.

However, I can't stress this enough: short of bonus spells due to high attributes, I don't think this limit should _ever_ be increased, be it through archetypes, feats or what have you. The effects on the balance against the Wizard or the Sorcerer could be disastrous.

2b) Spells known and prepared

Ooooh, boy... Giving the Arcanist a potential list of spells known of "all of them" and the Sorcerer's base progression of spells known as spells prepared is curbstomping the "poor" Sorcerer... Putting things in perspective, while the Wizard and the Arcanist prepare their spells once every day, the Sorcerer "prepares" its spells _once_ (having the option to swap a "prepared" spell only once every couple of levels). I understand that, in reality, the Sorcerer will have one more spell per level due to bloodlines, but considering that there isn't a bloodline with only stellar spells, the versatility will outshine that small bonus quite handily. Also, "feats and other effects that modify the number of spells known by a spellcaster affect the number of spells the Arcanist can prepare", so that's not even a hard cap.

I can understand the logic behind the current "spells prepared" progression, but I feel it was a bit shortsighted due to how it interacts with the Sorcerer. IMHO, the Arcanist should be able to prepare one less spell of every level than it can now, through all the levels. I do realize this would bring a few levels down to "0". That can be remedied by putting a "1" where a "0" would show, by leaving the "0" there and making the slot open only to metamagic-enhanced spells, by giving a score of "1" only if the character can cast bonus spells per day of that level, or by a combination of the latter two options.

Mind you, the current spell progression might not hugely impact regular, day-to-day gameplay. It makes an incredible difference when deciding what class to play, though. I won't say the current Arcanist obsoletes the Sorcerer completely. It does make it hard to justify playing as one if you want to focus only on the spells, though.

2c) Spell preparation

Eh, I have mixed feelings about the Arcanist needing a spellbook to prepare its spells.

On the one hand, I think that, studious as they are, their magic still stems from their blood. It would make sense for them to be able to commit all their spells (yes, even if it means all of them) to memory, and just meditate to "bring a few to the surface" (i.e.: prepare). Maybe they could need to study, but not necessarily a _spellbook_. Maybe they merely need to study their (or other's) annotations on how magic interacts with their blood (thought that fluff difference might amount to nothing at all mechanic-wise). Besides, the drawback of needing a spellbook (though I think that using that drawback is a very bad thing to pull on your players' Wizards, I won't dwell on it here) is very muted on an Arcanist. It can go for days on end without preparing a single spell: since an Arcanist's prepared spells are not consumed when cast, it doesn't need to change its loadout every sunrise!

On the other hand, this last reasoning is _precisely_ why I feel that the Arcanist is the perfect class to need a spellbook: losing it will severely limit your options, but won't turn you into a glorified Commoner. You can function perfectly as a toned-down Sorcerer!

Hmmm... Maybe Wizards should be eidetic by default and Arcanists should need spellbooks, while the Sorcerer laughs at their needs... Anyways, I digress. :)

Regarding open slots, I feel that Arcanists can be excessively dangerous if they can leave slots open to fill when the need arises. Maybe it's a good idea to force them to prepare all their spells at once?

2d) Metamagic

There is no way around it, IMHO: Arcanists, as they are now, are over the top regarding metamagic. They have what amounts to choosing the best of both worlds here.

Since their casting is closer to the Sorcerer's, why not give them only the Wizard's method of using metamagic? Being able to apply metamagic beforehand is very (VERY) interesting, I don't think they need the option of adding it on the fly too.

2e) Spellcasting stat

I feel that, to be true to the parent classes, spellcasting should be keyed off of both Int and Cha, and keying the spells' DC off of Cha would be a great way to pull that off. Besides, it just makes sense! Think with me for a moment: the Arcanist must study to tap his blood's powers. As such, it makes sense for him to need a high Int to cast high level spells. However, due to the very nature of his magical powers, the Arcanist should need to impose his presence on the universe, "to coax the magical energy out from its regular path", as it were. Hence, to make his spells stronger, he should need a high Charisma! I don't know about you, but I feel this fits perfectly.

Besides, this would have the arguably beneficial side-effect of making the class need more than just one attribute!

3) The "Blood Focus" ability

As it stands, I think that the Blood Focus ability is... Meh, at most. It doesn't further the objective of merging the parent classes at all, it just gives a minute bonus to one side or the other. Besides, getting fatigued if you use it up means that, effectively, you have one less use of the ability per day, on most days.

I suggest this change: the Arcanist's bloodline spells are (always) cast with a +1 bonus to CL and DC. It's simpler, cleaner and doesn't open way to weird interactions between the ability and bloodline powers. Besides, it's evocative, and IMHO, more interesting fluffwise: you focus your study on your blood, the same way a Wizard focuses on its school of choice. It's a "Spell Focus Plus", if only you could buy Spell Focus (bloodline spells), balanced by the fact that it's somewhat limited. (EDIT: or just do this!)

4) The "Scribe Scroll" bonus feat

This one is very, very bland. Besides, even though a scholar, I picture the Arcanist as a "scholar of his own blood". I don't picture them scribing scrolls by default.

I think it wouldn't hurt to give them access to their bloodlines' arcana here. It also makes sense that their access to it should be delayed when compared to a Sorcerer's: they had to research how to tap it.

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Whew, that was long-winded! This is pretty much all I've felt and thought when reading the class and making a few mock-up characters. I hope this post can be of use! I think that the class certainly has potential, both mechanics- and fluffwise, but I also think that it needs its rough edges smoothed. As it stands, it is a bit bland, and does cause a few balance concerns.

Regardless, good work so far guys!