A Gnome Heavens Oracle can be wielded in two hands as an improvised weapon, though they are more effective if you hold them and just let them cast Color Spray.
Search Posts
I have an amusing anecdote but it has spoilers You Only Die Twice spoilers: We were playing up and my evoker was the heaviest hitter in the party at 6th level (except for the 8th level Cleric who failed a fear save and ran from the boss fight for 8 rounds.) I got hit with a Wall of Fire, had to cross through the Wall of Fire to target the BBEG, got hit with a Hold Monster, then proceeded to fail my save against Lightning Bolt with a 17 on the die. Sitting there failing will save after will save at -10 and stable on a 12 con character, I had never appreciated the value of channel positive until I couldn't use it, the witch had to heal me with inflict potions. We did manage to win because after 4 rounds I had been healed to consciousness and I saved and tossed the winning Fireball, but it was close to a TPK, all because the specific scenario messes with your ability to heal.
This thread clears up a lot for me regarding Golarion. Thank you.
I'm not sure why you are quoting me and then making those points. I was simply noting that I liked the 11 codes printed in that book. I noticed a developer paying attention to the thread and wondered if this was something that was going to be expanded on in the future. I don't know why they only put out 11 codes when 13 deities have an alignment within one step of either LG or CE. I have theories, but I was looking to know if there was information out there that I was unaware of.
Demons are horrid. Get cold iron weapons and some way to cast Bless Weapon. Ghostbane Dirge in one form or another is going to be crucial as well. Both of those traps sound useful. Really you need +1 holy cold iron weapons, but they are expensive. Protection from Evil, this spell does so much for you. Learn it. Use it. Other characters with higher will saves.
I wouldn't call Channel good for damaging undead (beyond lots of baby ones if you are higher level), especially with low charisma. Channel get Will save for half and undead have good will saves. With low charisma all but the lowliest undead (some of the time anyway) will never fail your save. It sure isn't the best solution, but at 3rd level if your friends all use piercing weapons and a horde of skeletons or zombies shows up it will get the job done. Seen quite a few hard to kill undead that needed to be nickled and dimed to death, even if they make the save 2d6 is about 3 damage/round to every opponent. In an optimized party it won't be necessary but in a group of beginners it can help keep them alive to benefit from the learning curve.
Uh, Id probably go with the 17 and the 12 instead of the 19 and the 7. Having a 7 charisma cleric in a party of martial characters is going to have a lot of negative effects beyond being bad at channeling. Channeling with a 12 charisma isn't all that useful as in combat healing, but it can be really good against undead and it saves the party money on out of combat healing.
I really love the six Paladin & Antipaladin codes in Inner Sea Gods. It seems intentional that Irori and Gorum didn't get them while Abadar and Calistria did. The existence of the prestige class Champion of Irori specifically mentions paladins of Irori. Are there any plans to print more codes for more deities? I think it would be really cool to see a code for Zarongel for example.
So much sorcerer love in this thread. I dispute claims like at 18th level the sorcerers one more Shapechange per day is some kind of real advantage. What about at 17th level? Why would a Wizard even bother turning into a dragon once they can cast Time Stop and Wish? I have also seen very few builds that would be less useful as Crossblooded Sorc 1/Wizard X compared to Sorcerer X+1. At least 90% of the people I've ever gamed with spend at least 90% of the time below 12th level. If you have a significantly different experience I don't question why you have a different opinion.
I hate beer.
Be willing to be the GM. Make sure you follow school rules. Advertise across multiple platforms, like putting up fliers, announcing it in student media like radio/TV/newspapers, using social media, posting on this website, using other websites like warhorn. Be excellent to each other.
I think wizards are better. Levels 3,5,7,9,11,13,15,and 17 are really freaking painful as an Oracle, I don't even want to think about being a 2+ skill point class with this spell progression (oracle has a worse list but faster bonus spells.) For every time someone spammed something like dispel magic to save the day there are at least 10 times someone ended an encounter with a highest possible level spell. I know it is only my experience but it holds true over the 15 years spontaneous casters have been a thing. Not having 3rd level spells at 5th level means you are as potent as a 6/9 caster. Not having 4th level spells at 7th level means you are as potent as a 6/9 caster. A sorcerer doesn't even pull ahead of a bard for good until 8th level. A Wizard has been ahead since level 5. Both a wizard and a bard have better skill points than any but a Sage Wildblooded sorcerer. The combination of lacking skills and delayed spell progression leads me to conclude that I might rather play a bard than a wizard, but the vast majority of concepts I have would do best to only use sorcerer as a dipping class if at all. PS: Sorcerer is very, very front loaded. There is a reason Crossblooded Sorcerer 1/Wizard 19 is a thing, even with Arcanist trying to fill that niche.
Unfortunately Frostbite isn't on the Wizard list, as sad as that is. Good catch, I always want to rob the witch list rather than the wizard list. Ill Omen and Cure Light Wounds would be amazing choices too, but are also not valid.
If I heard someone refer to the core 4 books I would assume they meant this:
I assume they would say CRB, APG, UM, UC though and then I would ask about all the exceptions because I assume there will be a list of them.
Chill Touch or Frostbite could be good choices too. Magic Missile can be good in its own weird way, you can't sneak attack with it, but if you ready an action not much is anywhere near as good for messing up casters.
If you cast Ant Haul many familiars can carry around a small master no problem. An owl or hawk with ant haul can easily carry around a small character and a reasonable amount of gear. Gnomes make the best heavens oracles, in addition to perfect stat bonuses they have a racial bonus to illusion DC's. Halflings and Wayangs tend to make the best dex to damage characters. Halflings also tend to make the best ray sorcerers and Wayangs the best ray wizards. A Halfling Dual-Cursed Oracle with the adaptive luck alternate racial and the fate's favored trait is at or at least near the top of reroll builds. I really want a race that has small size and a wisdom bonus. Grippli would fit the bill nicely and will possibly open up in the future like Wayangs did. We shall wait and see on that front though.
I generally don't like riddles in RPGs. I like them somewhat as a diversion in general, but they have caused a lot of strife in games I have been in. Sometimes the problem comes from a structural issue like the GM making the players solve the riddle and then have the character of the player that solved it be the character that solved it. This causes problems in a variety of ways. First it breaks immersion for everyone, and generally only the GM is ready for that. Second it can cause hurt feelings. People in general and gamers specifically have a portion of their self worth tied to their intelligence. When someone else solves a puzzle before us we can get very defensive. I have seen far too many groups get resentful after a riddle, especially back when we were younger. Sometimes the problem skips the structural issues and goes right to the resentment. The problem is that there is no way to do this as a team. I don't want to feel stupid because the riddle doesn't make sense to me. I don't want to feel awkward because the riddle doesn't make sense to someone else but does to me. I totally get the value of riddles as a genre trope. I am just very wary of seeing them in adventures because they so often end in a negative experience at the table. I have seen it done well, but not nearly as often as it is done problematically. I also recognize that what I enjoyed isn't going to be a universal preference.
Turn your vehicle into an animated object. Then add all the movement speeds to end up with a go anywhere ship. This was my plan the only time anyone let me take Craft Construct.
As long as you don't mind not being a 9 level caster you can do some pretty crazy things even without early entry. Witch/Hunter using Samsaran as the race has a lot of potential. Bard/Cleric (Dispater, Horus, or Ra) using Aasimar as the race is pretty crazy as well. Even the more usual combinations will have good stuff.
You are also going to run into the fact that this is the plot to Final Fantasy 4.
Arcane Trickster can be had at 6th by going Wizard (or Witch) 3/Rogue (or Vivisectionist) 1/Snakebite Striker 1. In general though they don't happen before level 6 anymore and I think that if you do find a way it will just get nerfed. The intent was pretty clear when the ruling went away and finding a leftover exploit will probably have the opposite effect of what you intend.
Panther Style. If you are going to have a section for style feats it seems like an oversight to leave one of the best styles for AoOs off the list.
I have a monk who does similar things (without the trip shenanigans though) and indeed it uses the Kata Master archetype. Panther Style/Claw/Parry is the feat chain that lets you attack in response to an AoO, eventually pre-empting it. So there are a lot of ways to build effective monks out there now, but the house rule was the main problem it seems.
A group of us play Humans and Households.Fixed it! Just because someone else can make the same joke decades later doesn't mean the original didn't exist.
You have lots of good options. I would avoid the Fire Affinity and the Elemental bloodline altogether though, even if you never use whatever you swap Fire Affinity for. Magus has an archetype that makes it a spontaneous charisma caster called Eldritch Scion. That can make for a really nasty sword-fighter/blaster. Bard has an archetype called Flame Dancer that gets Fireball at 8th, but you are a bard so you have something else to do until your blasting gets good. Sorcerer has two good archetypes for this, but you generally want to be a Tattooed Sorcerer if this is your main class and a Crossblooded Sorcerer if you are just dipping for the bloodline arcana. I would suggest the Marid bloodline for a Tattooed Sorcerer so that you can have fun with the metamagic feat Rime Spell. I would suggest Draconic(red, gold, or brass)/Orc for a dip, because damage. Oracle has a lot going for it as well between the blackened curse and the flame mystery. You will want at least one or the other if not both. You can do some fun things with other mysteries like life or nature so check out all of this class including the various archetypes. The traits Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter are very, very good for blasters. Most builds put them on fireball, what they do is make metamagic cheaper and I have seen them on a good number of spells.
Yes, I agree your dude is most like well aware of his own capabilities and knows that his power grows as he continues to adventure, but does he introduce himself as an Xth level Wizard with the Y archetype when he first meets people, perhaps also mentioning in character the list of feats he took? That's what it sounds like you are saying and if so I'm not sure how that wouldn't break immersion at all. I can see how someone could get this impression. No, none of my characters introduce themselves with a list of feats. That seems silly to me as well. And I agree that for some characters in world knowing what class they are is not happening. I can build a sneaky scout as a rogue, slayer, or barbarian and never sweat the difference. The magic system is very different for me. Some people hate Vancian casting and wan't to kind of pretend that that isn't the way magic works. I love this magic system of fire and forget, memorizing spells per day, and lots and lots of spells known. For me a large part of the game involves being able to become someone else and inhabit a world that specifically has this magic system. Spellcraft explicitly lets characters know what spells do and how they work. I would assume that the slayer talent that lets you know someones HP would force tables to define what HP means to them so that the slayer in question could communicate this information in a meaningful way. Lastly I want to thank everyone for this not turning bad, I constantly work to make the tone of my words better, but it isn't easy on the internet.
I... can't tell... whether you're being satirical or not. I am not. I can't tell if you are being condescending or not.
I seriously have no idea why so many people think things like class level are out of game only ideas. My Wizard is keenly aware of what level he is thank you very much. He has a mathematical progression of class abilities and the skills to know what they do. He is keenly aware he has made it to the next level when the two spells he has been working on work correctly and he can memorize more spells. It breaks my suspension of disbelief completely to be told that my very smart character has no idea how the thing he has been studying his whole life works. Sorry for going off topic, but this is not a standard assumption as far as I know. If I am wrong and it is stated in the rules somewhere could someone please quote it?
My bard does mostly the same thing when adventuring and not adventuring. Get drunk, have fun, stay alive. In all seriousness though he actually runs a caravan that ships iron golems from Varisia to Qadira. He didn't start out that way though, he started out as a poor drunk who got through life with his good looks and charming wit. During his career he keeps getting drunk and agreeing to just about anything, and it somehow seems to work out. It often throws other players for a loop when he treats adventuring as his day job and his day job as his real profession.
The word itself is problematic. In one sense it is a slur. Calling someone else's idea of a good time something derogatory can be very hurtful. I think the definition Snowblind gave above is generally pretty accurate. It is also tied up in another loaded word, broken. The definition of broken is either
Definition a) of broken isn't inflammatory generally, except by being conflated with definition b). When one person calls another persons character broken here is often what happens: The person calling the character broken feels invalidated. They see their investment of hours learning the game and building a character as for nothing if someone else is allowed to come in with something an order of magnitude more effective than what they built and force them into a supporting role they did not want, ask for, or envision. The person who's character was called broken feels invalidated. They see their investment of hours learning the game and building a character as for nothing if someone else is allowed to come in with something an order of magnitude less effective than what they built and force them into a leading role they did not want, ask for, or envision. Everyone else at the table starts questioning whether their characters are too weak or too strong and everyone enjoys the game less. Synonyms for cheese include overpowered (OP), broken, and less polite versions. Antonyms for cheese include underpowered (UP), useless, and less polite versions.
Roll bluff. Seriously, it won't matter most of the time. The only real way to observe someones power in game is to observe them using it. So unless they observe you doing something a 2nd level wizard can't they have no reason to suspect you are anything other than what you appear to be. A knowlegde check will only reveal information about your race (most humanoids seem like easy prey based on knowledge checks, this explains why so many of the monsters underestimate the PC's until it is too late.) Detect thoughts is a matter of GM fiat anyway, there are no rules for determining what a creature is thinking about that I know of. So unless you want to tip off that you have some way around it it is better to rely on a skill. I suppose a case could be made for perform (act) or disguise instead of bluff, so speaking with the GM about the mechanics of your deception before play starts will make this much better for everyone involved. Necromancers and enchanters have mechanical uses for charisma and there are many traits that let you use intelligence for social skills so this can be done with a lot of different wizard builds.
Not immunities, but Sense Motive. I see this so often with new GMs. "What do you mean you are entitled to a roll every time an NPC lies to you? Isn't that what the roleplaying part is for, to see if you believe my NPC?" Very frustrating when you are sitting on a double digit sense motive score in a social scenario.
I posted this at the end of the thread that was necro'd yesterday but this seems to be where people are reading ... so I'm just gonna lazily copy/paste it here. Hostage Photos The issue as I understand it is that a subset of PFS players own physical but not PDF versions of additional resources. They want to be able to travel to games as freely as those who own all resources in PDF form. Nobody wants to put in any extra effort, so any solution should focus on that subset. We already have to rely on the PRD instead of the physical version of the books or you end up with players using pre-errata versions of things. So we are already requiring people to lug around dead tree talismans as a way to access the version of the rules on the PRD. It won't work as a solution for everyone, but I imagine that most of the people who use physical books have access to a camera. It wouldn't matter whether the camera is digital analog or part of a phone. If there was a new rule saying that a photograph of the player next to a stack of hardback books with something showing the date that is hard to forge counted as proof, and then required anyone who uses such proof to have printouts of the relevant rules section, I think that could work. You would have to set up specific guidelines, such as the photo is only valid proof for one week and then a new one is needed or the Paizo website showing the date must be in the background. I think it might be something that solves the issue and doesn't make anyone else put in extra effort. Softcover books still need to be hauled, but just being able to leave the CRB, APG, UC, UM, UE, and ACG at home would be a lot of weight out of a lot of backpacks. People would still need to bring the rule for the GM to peruse. What do other people think of this idea?
Has anyone had success combining Shield Slam with Vicious Stomp? Shield Slam can knock opponents prone if they run out of squares and that should trigger an AoO from Vicious Stomp. I haven't figured out a way to get that into a coherent build, has anyone else? If so was it worth it?
Doesn't bull rush preclude taking AOO's, even when you're shield bashing? How are you getting a free polearm attack? It does until you get to level six and pick up Greater Bull Rush. Once you have Greater Bull Rush the movement will provoke from your allies (though not you). Your AoO comes from the opponent trying to close with you after you bull rushed them and 5 foot stepped to prevent them from being able to 5 foot step inside your reach. This build is only for tactically minded players, if you don't position yourself correctly it doesn't work correctly.
This thread has been re-necro'd recently and it seems to be tangential now but I had a thought. Hostage Photos The issue as I understand it is that a subset of PFS players own physical but not PDF versions of additional resources. They want to be able to travel to games as freely as those who own all resources in PDF form. Nobody wants to put in any extra effort, so any solution should focus on that subset. We already have to rely on the PRD instead of the physical version of the books or you end up with players using pre-errata versions of things. So we are already requiring people to lug around dead tree talismans as a way to access the version of the rules on the PRD. It won't work as a solution for everyone, but I imagine that most of the people who use physical books have access to a camera. It wouldn't matter whether the camera is digital analog or part of a phone. If there was a new rule saying that a photograph of the player next to a stack of hardback books with something showing the date that is hard to forge counted as proof, and then required anyone who uses such proof to have printouts of the relevant rules section, I think that could work. You would have to set up specific guidelines, such as the photo is only valid proof for one week and then a new one is needed or the Paizo website showing the date must be in the background. I think it might be something that solves the issue and doesn't make anyone else put in extra effort. Softcover books still need to be hauled, but just being able to leave the CRB, APG, UC, UM, UE, and ACG at home would be a lot of weight out of a lot of backpacks. People would still need to bring the rule for the GM to peruse. What do other people think of this idea?
The Exchange faction card will also let you raise the day job limit if you can check enough boxes to get the Chairperson boon. The exchange also has the Master of Trade vanity that lets you buy things at a discount. In general though there isn't all that much you can do to avoid having roughly the same wealth at the same level as everyone else other than not die (an obvious goal that you are trying for anyway.)
I think that this discussion doesn't really get into who does what well well. There are some things that clerics can do that oracles just can't and vice versa. There are some insane domains and subdomains out there. Travel and Growth for starters. There are some insane revelations out there. Awesome Display and Nature's Whispers let you do things nobody else can dream of. Variant negative channeling is insane. You can get free exotic weapon proficiency by selecting certain deities. An aasimar scion of humanity racial heritage half-elf oracle is really good, a svirfneblin oracle is not. They are both very strong classes and I think anyone who thinks one of them is far and away better is underestimating the other.
1 Toughness
I think the problem is in expectations and will largely go away once the game starts. Before the game, when you are building the character, you can only control your stats. So that is what you think about and that is what you talk about. You haven't played the game yet, so you don't know the NPCs yet. You don't know the local legends until you make a knowledge check in game. You don't have anything to talk about besides the rules elements, and the only part of that that requires cooperation is getting your gear specced out. How upset would you be if they were all talking about the cool monsters and NPCs before they had played the game? It would indicate that they had read the adventure before playing it. I can deal with another GM wanting a chance to play, but I want to know about it and talk about it before they join the game. After the campaign is over is when people talk about the cool plots and the awesome fights. It can be aggravating to have to wait until it is over to get to the awesome reminiscing, but it is a transition from one to the other. I can tell you stories of games from 20 years ago, but I only remember the bits and pieces of peoples builds that impacted the story. Meanwhile I can tell you all the theorycraft behind a build I might not even decide to play, precisely because it has no stories attached to it yet and that theorycraft is still the most interesting thing about the character.
Etherealness does not stop Spiritual Weapon despite it being a 9th level spell. One GM found that out the hard way and something we were supposed to run from ended up running from us. Certain tactics that are peculiar to a character can have oversized impact when you least expect it. Rolling with it when it happens is one of the challenges of running games. Fabricate can throw people for a loop the first time they see it hit play. It can wreck the economy, and the economy is really hard to fix as it amounts to GM fiat. Item Crafting feats in general require a delicate balance of downtime and goodwill to use at all. If the GM plans for the PCs to be crafting for long stretches of time and works it into the plot it can be awesome, but if not it can cause problems. Speaking of problem feats, Leadership can totally wreck a campaign like no other. Would you like another character? At the cost of one feat you too can have another character... It gets banned for a reason. Commune. Be prepared to roleplay the divine caster's deity as a regular recurring NPC from this point forward. Limited Wish. Who are you calling a prepared caster? This spell is every condition removal spell on demand among other things.
can you also do this with armor? No. I know of no exception that would let you, though there might be one out there somewhere. Amulet, Ring, Staff, Wand, and Weapon are the only things you can get as a bonded object without some specific exception. You could select a heavy or light shield as your weapon, but bucklers, tower shields, and any type of armor are not possible.
A roguish arcane caster? From the CRB? Have you considered just playing the character as a single classed Bard? Arcane spells learned from sometimes paying attention to family of casters? Check. Lots of skill points and lots of roguish class skills? Check. Good at sitting in the back while still contributing? Check. You will end up with a focus on enchantment and necromancy instead of evocation and conjuration, but you don't need to change your ability scores or background and you will have much easier choices to make as you level up.
I assume your character has the arcane bloodline, and that you want it that way rather than because it is listed as the default. Plan out the build to 11th, but with an emphasis on being viable as early as possible, as you can't avoid either playing or GMing 3 scenarios per level. Identify is now lackluster instead of mandatory, so just ignore it really and let the wizard or bard take care of identifying stuff. Also debuff rays like Enervation aren't as good as they were while area control like Stinking Cloud or Black Tentacles are really scary. Use Magic Device is really good because of all the cheap and readily available consumables in PFS. I would probably dump int over str. The difference between a 10 and a 7 is 4 build points and all you get is +2 on int based skills and 1 skill point/level. Carrying capacity can be a pain as belts, cloaks, haversacks and headbands don't weigh any less for a small character, though if anyone can get by with a 5 strength it is a sorcerer.
As long as you have enough bonus to spellcraft or craft: jewelry a Fighter or Paladin should be able to make a bonded amulet into an amulet of mighty fists just fine. What it won't do is let you cast a spell known like a wizard can, but as long as you are cool with that it can be a workable option. You are essentially selling the feat used to get the bonded object for half the price of the amulet at that point, so only going to be worth it in a campaign where money is tightly controlled or there is no easy way to get items bought or made on demand.
Detect Magic works alongside Spellcraft and Knowledge: Arcana to figure out what magic does. It indeed is meant to eat up a spell slot on every wizard and any other caster who has these skills. If you are fighting invisible foes without the aid of See Invisibility and/or Glitterdust you are having a miserable time in any case. It isn't very effective, but when you are frustrated enough to try this you are usually beyond annoyed at the GM at the moment anyway. I have never seen it used to pinpoint someone, only to confirm that yes, there is an illusion aura over there somewhere that you can't pinpoint. And that wasn't in combat either.
From 2nd ed:
Spheres and Schools. There used to be a real difference in how arcane and divine magic felt and worked, and bards felt very different from clerics. From 3.x:
Prestige classes that don't take caster level hits. There used to be a bunch of these, and now there are not nearly as many. I thought the whole point of buffing up the base classes was to make them in line with or slightly better than prestige classes. But it seems like they are just not well liked by the developers. 3.0 Haste, even though it was stupid broken and needed to be changed.
I don't have a lot of experience at the really high levels but even in the 9-15 range the wheels start coming off. Teleport: This one drives many GMs crazy just for the ability to avoid hazards. Dimension Door does this as well, but Teleport adds the ability to avoid 900 miles of travel time. I find this one to be no problem at all. If I am designing an adventure for levels 9+ I simply assume they will do this when convenient. Never had a problem with scry & fry either, we just assumed that people who can cast 5th level spells should be able to assassinate people who can't and got on with the game. Wind Walk: The next spell that drives GMs crazy after they ban Teleport. What do you mean you can go 60mph over unexplored territory and avoid most fights without trying? Transport via Plants would go here if it came up more often as well. Mind Blank: This really messes up plots. When the players get tired of divination only ever working against them or being mind controlled they find a way to get this. Never seen it in play for more than a couple of sessions, but it is stupid hard to write plot around.
Yes, an amulet bonded object can be made into an Amulet of Mighty Fists. No, you cannot wear more than one neck slot item. It doesn't matter where the spell comes from when enchanting, and it really doesn't matter if you don't know the spell at all, it merely raises the DC by 5.
That's actually the reason why two handing a shield is a good idea :) I agree. I like the heavy shield in two hands style too, but I figured it wasn't what the OP wanted. |
