Seems like Urban Bloodrager or Eldritch Archer Magus are the general concensus. I'd probably still dip at least one level of Gunslinger, likely Black Powder Vaulter.
The Mobile Reload is arguably superfluous to a Spell Cartridges build, but Daring Vault is a great mobility/range boost for a build using one-handed firearms, and will stack with effects like Haste.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but here's a thought... take your first level as Sorcerer and take Amateur Gunslinger. Choose Quick Clear as your first level deed. The text of AG says you "CAN" trade the feat for Extra Grit, not that you automatically do. So, for the cost of a feat, you can get the starting deeds from Mysterious Stranger plus Quick Clear. Sound legit?
So, Heroes of Golarion introduced a collection of feats for the use of firearms in Arcadia, where black powder and ammunition is even rarer than the Inner Sea Region outside of Alkenstar. Of particular note is the feat 'Spell Cartridges'.
With Arcane Strike active, it allows the wielder of a firearm to fire a force bullet (1d4 per 5 CL) with the range and crit modifier of the base firearm, without the use of black powder or ammunition. What build can make the best use of this?
Things to remember:
For builds that use spellcasting levels as more than a dip (4th level spells minimum), consider the upgraded feat:
Need to get around an energy immunity (WE'RE LOOKING AT YOU, FIREBRAND ARCHETYPE), or exploit a vulnerability?
Those are all the highlights I can think to connect with this at the moment. Please discuss. (:
Thank you for the 'slinger love, but there's also the Black Powder Vaulter from Martial Arts Handbook, and the Antihero Handbook Blatherskite if you care to throw in your two copper about them. (:
The Scatter Gunner, from People of the Wastes, is also missing from the document. Also, Planar Rifter, from Plane-hopper's Handbook.
Empty Quiver Style is a combat style (sequence of feats meant to be taken one after another) that uses a firearm, bow, or crossbow as a melee weapon.The second feat in the sequence is Empty Quiver Flexibility, which gives all the benefits you have from feats and class features with ranged attacks to your melee attacks with the weapon as well.
The third, Empty Quiver Flurry will only matter for firearms or crossbows, as it speeds up reloading.
The Empty Quiver series is useful because it lets you focus on just one weapon's enhancement bonuses and enchantments, and you don't need to worry about switching between weapons when in melee.
Errant Inlad wrote:
I just double-checked the wording, and you're right. I thought it was 'deal damage as' rather than 'as if it were' wording. Nice.
So I guess with that observed, I'd recommend dropping WFinesse from a use of Training, ditch Stock Striker entirely (unless for some reason you have TWF dreams), and drop in Flexibility via Training. No getting around using feat slots for Rapid Shot and Stabbing Shot though. A merciful DM might let you off the hook for Stabbing.
Errant Inlad wrote:
The Empty Quiver Style feat chain enables you to treat your gun as a mace, and even apply your Gun Training class feature. Dex to damage in melee!
Like everything for a Gunslinger, it's feat intensive, but there are ways to optimize the gun-kata/gun-fu aspect without burning grit on Pistol Whip.A - Empty Quiver Style is easy enough and has a quick payout, but requires (G) Weapon Focus. (F)Flexibility is harder to push for, requiring Rapid Shot and Stabbing Shot as well. Flurry is just too costly to really pay off in this build.
B - Stock Striker Style is a one-off that will grant you the ability to treat one-handed firearms as light weapons for the purpose of (C) Weapon Finesse.
D - Weapon Style Mastery will require a dip in Fighter (3 levels Weapon Master or 5 levels standard) or taking (E) Martial Focus, but will allow you to benefit from both Styles.
I forget the source at the moment, but like multiple enchantments of Bane with different selections, multiple uses of Training can be placed on the same weapon (Cestus or hand wraps mean you'll always have them). However, you can only use 'end' feats, nothing to fill prerequisites for others. So...
Reorganize as necessary if you REALLY want to go further into the style chains, and make sure to prioritize your full BAB class levels until you get Weapon Finesse, to make sure your Pistol Whip or Empty Quiver attacks still stand a chance of connecting.
(I can't believe I'm the first person to bring this up in CharOp.)
So, Martial Arts Handbook finally gave us the archetype for run-and-gun/gun-fu that we've deserved since the inception of the Gunslinger class, The Black Powder Vaulter.
Gunslinger Initiative >> Shot On The Run. Got Grit? You've got this feat! (With firearms you're proficient with.) At 7th level, you can combine this with the Targeting deed.
Startling Shot >> Art of the Gun. As long as you've got grit, reload and fire all you want! It won't provoke A's of O! Firearms you wield now also threaten, with your choice of either Pistol Whip or firing a loaded firearm for 1 grit.
Epert Loading >> Dual Shot on the Run. You can now make two shots when using Shot on the Run.
With all that to digest, two options jump out at me as synergizing with this. Gun Scavenger, although it will take away your option for Targeting On The Run, will give you consistent access to either another 10ft of range, or the Distant enchantment. Combined with Mobile Reload and Daring Vault, even the most meager of one-handed firearms should be able to reach your foes.
Other thoughts? Thoughts on this archetype in general?
Isaac Zephyr wrote:
I adore the concept, but I think you'll need a DM ruling to have the boots truly count as a light weapon and be valid for Finesse Training. "Deals damage as" is not the same as "as if it were". Look at the heavy/light mace language in Empty Quiver Style for comparison.
Gray Warden wrote:
Human is necessary for bonus feat at level 1 to bring Improved Familiar Bond online without delay.
Roc definitely looks more powerful than the Swan.
Kitty Catoblepas wrote:
Peacock preserves comedy value, and Intimidate is as nice as extra HP, so I'll put that equal to the chicken. Hawk isn't as funny, but arguably has a more useful Familiar benefit for ranged builds.
Dangit, I meant to include Mad Dog in the opening lines of this thread. Yes, that's core to this build, as I don't know of another archetype that starts the Barbarian with an Animal Companion.
Okay, so this concept is just in it's earliest inception, but I figured I'd see what ideas could get thrown at me.
A human Barbarian, with the House of Green Mothers Pupil trait, can start play at first level with an Animal Companion and a Familiar at full levels equal to their level (character level for Familiar, Barb class level for the Animal Companion).
Animal Companion - Trumpeter Swan
I don't know how optimal the Swan is, and I know the Chicken is sub-optimal, but dammit, have you seen either of them get mad? I can hardly think of more fitting war beasts for a barbarian.
The Chicken would have the the Mauler familiar archetype, and I'm considering the Wrecker or Bully animal companion archetypes.
Thanks for any advice.
Full details on the Oversized Goblin subrace.
"Oversized goblins are Medium size, and grow to 4 to 5 feet tall. They tend to be particularly obese, weighing between 225 and 275 pounds. Instead of the normal racial ability score modifiers for goblins, oversized goblins gain a +2 bonus to Strength, a +2 bonus to Dexterity, and a –2 penalty to Charisma."
Could you slap the Versatile Design weapon modification on the tankard to let it be considered a close weapon?
Alternately, under the rules for Creating New Weapons, you can make a custom weapon function as a mundane tool. A tankard seems pretty mundane.
Tool (0 DP): The weapon can also serve as a specific mundane tool. Add triple the price and double the weight of the tool to the weapon’s final price and weight.
With the availability of both alchemical ordnance and the higher capacity of the Paddlefoot Pistol, be CAREFUL. Ordnance becomes inert after a number of rounds equal to your INT mod. At higher levels, this shouldn't be an issue (as long as you keep up your stat boosters), but with your 3/4 BAB and without using Rapid Shot, bullets will likely stay in the chamber for several rounds. That's even without the likelihood of rounds that you may need to use an infusion, quaff a potion, or aid an ally instead of taking a shot.
Give some consideration to taking Rapid Reload ASAP, and just taking the allotted bonus combat feat at sixth level instead.
If you really want to wield both the padpistol and the buckler gun, consider the Training enchantment to grant TWF to yourself without using up a feat slot. Firing against touch will mitigate most of the TWF penalties, but eventually you will find yourself shooting outside the first range increment.
A single level of Gunslinger to get Quick Clear and Deadeye will protect you, even if WIS is your dump stat you'll still have one Grit Point. Don't bother with Extra Grit, as Cartridge Savant should be enough to protect you from most problems with increased Misfire odds. One point of grit capacity for Quick Clear, along with the backup weapon, should suffice. With your Alchemical Ordnance, you should be striking killing blows often enough to keep up with your Grit needs. Improved Critical can help that, but make sure to get the Fast Ordnance discovery first.
ETA: One more thing - Alchemical ordnance can only be created at the time of loading, not added to a pre-loaded bullet or batch of pellets. You'll need a free hand for that.
Yes, but with some conditions.
The Gun Chemist gains the same Gunsmith class feature as the standard Gunslinger. This means they get the Gunsmithing bonus feat, and also a battered gun. They still are limited to choosing from the blunderbuss, musket, or pistol, the same as a Gunslinger. In addition, they can expend a use of alchemical ordnance to repair a broken gun, as long as the broken condition was from a misfire.
Oh My Strong Man I love this.
"Spot! Combat positions!"
Related to this general discussion, what are the strongest options (especially feats) for Eldritch Guardian, for the fighter to synergize with their Mauler familiar? To the best of my knowledge, natural attack fighters are not a great option, even with Natural Weapons as a Fighter Weapon Group, and I'm not sure what other loadout is best to work for both of them.
Is Intelligence of 6 deemed enough for Exotic Weapon Proficiency, assuming the familiar has sufficiently compatible anatomy?
Some items to consider from People Of The Wastes:
Gun Chemist (Alchemist archetype) discovery available with a 2 level dip
Create Enhanced Firearm feat
The latter will cost you an extra feat, but it's worth considering if you expect to have crafting time available.
As for myself, I've always thought the "get out after 5th level" was overly harsh. I'm a big fan of Bleeding Wound. Ability Damage bleed (you can inflict multiple types simultaneously, given enough iterative attacks) either puts your enemies on a rather harsh timer for them or burns through their action economy if they want to heal it.
Getting ready for a sci-fantasy game with a friend, inspired by Final Fantasy D20, and I was reminiscing back to the magic gunman from Final Fantasy Unlimited. I can think of a few different concepts off the top of my head for assembling specialized magic bullets, so I wanted to see what ideas might be offered.
Any of the following, save Gun Chemist, would be using Words of Power:
Spellslinger Wizard(1)/Sorcerer(X) (Psychic bloodline is jumping out at me, but I forget why...)
Any input appreciated. I love the 'lego brick' style of magic that Words of Power enables, particular from a gun mage perspective. Thank you.
ETA: The priority is for multiple 'elements' (damage type or otherwise) combined into individual bullets, more than just high numbers for enhancement bonuses or other static damage mods.
There's also Desna's Shooting Star from the Divine Fighting Technique feat. It lets you use your Charisma for attack and damage when using a starknife.
A minor tangent away from Flying Blade, but DSS has insane synergy with the Sword Devil Ranger archetype (Worldscape). Single-stat your AC/Atk/Dmg off of Charisma if unarmored (while still adding Dex to AC). In addition, the archetype also offers a second combat style (take your pick of Thrown Weapon, Archery, or Faithful - Desna), and a few times a day atk/dmg spike in the form of Death Vow (extra uses available with a feat).
If GM rules against FBT = Weapon Training, you may want to consider three levels of Weapon Master. This opens up usage of Advanced Weapon Training with bonus feats (swash levels count as fighter levels) and also Gloves of Dueling. Focus and Specialization chains are bland, but they'll increase your numbers. If you're willing to invest five levels in Fighter, AWT Focused Weapon will bump your dagger or starknife dice to d6.
AWT - Warrior Spirit will open up the Sharding enchantment (or others as necessary), if you're still waiting on Ricochet Shot.
Do thrown weapons count as ranged for the purposes of Impressive Grit?
What is it that makes the Flying Blade a definite for you?
So, it finally hit the SRD, so I'd like to ask for advice in optimizing the Firebrand Gunslinger archetype. This is a gunslinger that believes there is one solution to all problems, and it is fire.
What you gain: Non-stacking Cha-based Bombs as an Alchemist of your level minus 4, constantly under the effect of the Explosive Bomb discovery, Cha-based Grit and Cha-increased save DC's for Dragon's Breath alchemical cartridges (at the cost of 1 grit point per round). Direct critical hits with bombs will restore grit, in addition to the usual killing blows and critical hits with firearms. DB cartridges will also scale in damage by 1d6 every 4 levels, starting at level 4. Misfire chances for DB cartridges are also reduced.
What you swap: Deadshot, the Gunslinger's Vital Strike With Better Crit Chances gives way to Big Boom!; for the cost of a daily bomb use and 2 grit points, you can make the following attack:
"As a standard action, the firebrand shoots a 30-foot cone of fire from the barrel of her gun. The firebrand designates one creature in the squares affected by the cone to be the target and makes an attack roll with her firearm against that creature; on a hit, the target takes damage as if it were directly hit by both the firebrand’s firearm and her bomb. Creatures in all other squares in the cone (as well as the target’s square, if the gunslinger’s attack missed) take splash damage as if they were in the area of the firebrand’s bomb, with a Reflex saving throw for half damage. (The DC of this saving throw is equal to 10 + half the firebrand’s gunslinger level + the firebrand’s Charisma modifier.)
What you lose: bonus feats, deadeye, gun training, and the ability to choose a battered firearm other than a dragon pistol.
It's a terribly fun archetype at face-value, as long as you're not in a heavily fire-resistant campaign, but you better have some high level healing or defense ready to back you up, to compensate for the short-range/front-line demands of the Dragon Pistol.
Please discuss what optimization would be different from the standard Gunslinger.
Bonus: The Firebrand will stack with the following archetypes: Gun Tank, Gunner Squire (I mean, you can, but why would you?), Maverick, Mysterious Stranger, Thronewarden, and Wyrm Sniper.
You can actually take Firebrand + Maverick + Mysterious Stranger, Thronewarden, or Wyrm Sniper.
Has there been a ruling on whether the revised RR text vs the Firearms rules takes precedence?
From the SRD -
Pizza Lord wrote:
You definitely have me on the cost, so thank you.
However, there is nothing stopping the training enchantment from being used for capstone feats (Greater CM feats, Ace Trip/Disarm, etc).
That feat cannot be used as a prerequisite for any other feats and functions for the wielder only if she meets its prerequisites.
Horas Ebonfeather wrote:
Could Urban Barbarian and Feral Gnasher archetypes be taken at the same time.
I may be missing one or two from the latest content releases, but the archetypes that can be stacked with Feral Gnasher are: Beast Totem, Brutal Pugilist, Chaos Totem, Elemental Kin, Fiend Totem, Flesheater, Giant Stalker, Invulnerable Rager, Mad Dog, Mooncursed, Numerian Liberator, Pack Rager, Raging Cannibal, Savage Barbarian, Spirit Totem, Superstitious, Untamed Rager, and Wild Rager.
Damage dealing is the least interesting thing about the Gunslinger for me. I like all of the deeds that let you make the cinematic actions the character type is known for in cinema.
But avoid Pistol Whip like the plague; take Empty Quiver Style. Please.
Does anyone know if VMC Alchemist meets the "Alchemist 4" requirement of Explosive Missile? VMC selections are referred to as a 'secondary class', so...?