Next I need to see which module is next. Not ready for the Desert yet. Also need to see who is still in.
Leaning toward I1--Dwellers of the Forbidden City
Those who continue are level 4.
I also tweaked the ability to unravel the king by confronting him with his past. The party, as they find out that he is mostly a memory, can remove him without a fight by 'proving' he is really dead and died fighting a linnorm long ago. It takes two or three library visits to do this. The king actually pleads for the party to find out information about him as he has huge gaps in his memory. With this powerful knowledge, some groups prefer to have him sit on the throne and keep the proof of his demise secret. Others prefer to undo him and loot his treasure room (and get his kicka$$ flaming sword) and the tribute they have paid him in magic items.
I have learned on PbPs to move action quickly when faced with an impasse, which we had reached.
Thankfully I did not start on the map of the five-level dungeon that was the body of the mile high ice titan.
I'm in! Tribute, since we're skipping around all over the place, may I consider playing a different class?
Druids are highly encouraged! But then you may have to put up with Merrie!
Druids are highly encouraged! But then you may have to put up with Merrie!
I already have a druid, and I'm doing a poor job of playing him to the class's fullest ability (as you know).
I am in of course. Will add my comments on how things worked out with Swordthrust once I get some more time to post.
I try to be the anti railroading dm. Hence bailing on the b~+%@es of the king storyline.
Still here
Next funniest line as a player when comparing notes with another table afterwards.
'That guy kicked our ass and you just beat him by talking to him after two trips to the library....what a rip.'
The encounter with the mountain King is clearly not aimed at being overcome with brute force - I guess that was quite evident - even though I still think that if we had went all out nuke type on them, we would have a chance, or not... :D
The only real thing that bugged me about it is the fact that I didn't notice any clue anywhere as to what we were up against - not in town before we left, not as we travelled the mountains, and definitely not when we first met him.
Although I FULLY agree that people that wade through all their encounters "swinging first and asking questions later" need to be taught a lesson, I also find it a far stretch to believe that almost any group of characters, in a world where you are always being beset by highwaymen, robbers, bandits, etc., would simply think - "Hey, this guy looks tough... Maybe we should do what he is asking, and just give him our hard earned magical items" - it is far fetched any way you look at it, UNLESS there was some previous background information that we missed (maybe we should have asked more around town, or something along those lines?).
Here's an example - the previous encounter, where the evil caster and the goblins demanded that we handed over the bracelet could fall into the same category - after all they were how many? Fifty goblins? It is a LOT, and could be easily construed as an encounter not met to be overcome by brute force - yet it seemed that the idea was that it could be done, and indeed we managed it.
Bottom line, and regarding the king, my feel is that this massive opponent was dropped in the middle of the mountains like any other conman that may be relieving people of their gold, and expected that players would catch on that this is a REALLY tough opponent... Unlikely to happen given my previous considerations.
Just wanted to leave my two cents, before we leave for our next adventure ;)
From the briefing with Morlean was:
'There is an extremely dangerous band of winter wolves roaming the mountain.' That from a wizard who makes his own magic items is quite an impressive acknowledgement.
You are then stalked by a winter wolf for at least 12 hours to a day.
The other clues were:
'His hair is slightly greying and his wolves seem protective and look at you with menace.'
So the conclusion is that this is the boss of the extremely dangerous winter wolves.
I added this bit, as the two other groups that tried to fight have complained that putting the boss first is just 'not allowed'. Although a recurring villain or challenge is often done. Straad in Ravenloft is a prime example.
It never was in any material in the module, but feeling some foreshadowing of awesomeness was needed without being overt:
The human with the rippling physique and well muscled shoulders puts his hands on his hips and replies..'He casually twirls his shortsword around his wrist catching it again and again in a display as he speaks. It is far from an amateur move, one neither of you think you could manage.'
He is doing a display similar to the Raiders of the Lost Ark, although a single gunshot would probably not take him out.
Now I admit that at the table I show the players the King of the Mountain on the cover. Knowing he 'has got the module cover' may have caused some metagaming.
I removed the two giant eagles and the series of snowy pit traps that only he knew the location of in the pass. That tends to make the encounter harder. He can drink a potion of haste before stepping out; that definitely makes him harder. It may be metagaming, but as soon under AD&D he makes two attacks two rounds in a row, smart players know he is at least 12th level. That has caused an immediate surrender.
Of course you saw the rolls and players immediately knew he was about 12th level by his attack roll.
Regardless, parties have surrendered and worked for him to finish the adventure. I understand that some characters would refuse to submit or swear an oath, so I recognized the impasse and ended it.
Best creative way by a group to avoid the magic item toll:
"We are geased by this wizard Morlean. We have no choice but to trespass on your domain. You would exact a toll on top of the horrible quest laid on us."
Being CG and hating Morlean, the King had to see the unfairness in that.
This is a debate that could take a long time, and I agree with most of what you said but:
From the briefing with Morlean was:
'There is an extremely dangerous band of winter wolves roaming the mountain.' That from a wizard who makes his own magic items is quite an impressive acknowledgement.You are then stalked by a winter wolf for at least 12 hours to a day.
Meh... I mean, I've been playing RPG for... Phew, has it been that long..? 22 years! Geez... And that kind of line always comes up - there is a terryfing and murderous band of goblins laying claim on the whole region; there is an 'undefeatable' black bear stalking the farms... I mean, this is common.
The other clues were:
'His hair is slightly greying and his wolves seem protective and look at you with menace.'
So the conclusion is that this is the boss of the extremely dangerous winter wolves.I added this bit, as the two other groups that tried to fight have complained that putting the boss first is just 'not allowed'. Although a recurring villain or challenge is often done. Straad in Ravenloft is a prime example.
The conclusion is not that immediate (I for one, would not see the winter wolves allying with anyone else besides a Frost Giant or something of that kind...), but it could be a logical one, I agree - again I say, adventurers spend their lives going against extremely dangerous opponents - thet is what they do, is it not? :D
It never was in any material in the module, but feeling some foreshadowing of awesomeness was needed without being overt:
The human with the rippling physique and well muscled shoulders puts his hands on his hips and replies..'He casually twirls his shortsword around his wrist catching it again and again in a display as he speaks. It is far from an amateur move, one neither of you think you could manage.'
He is doing a display similar to the Raiders of the Lost Ark, although a single gunshot would probably not take him out.
True, but this one seems so blatant - the guy shows up and starts twirling his shortsword... Does it REALLY look menacing? :D Surely it should have, but I don't think it hits the spot as far as menacing goes ;) Granted, the fact that neither one of us could probably make the move, and that he is not an amateur is almost a warning, but then again BBEGs are usually stronger than any individual PC - that is why there were... 6, 7 of us?
Now I admit that at the table I show the players the King of the Mountain on the cover. Knowing he 'has got the module cover' may have caused some metagaming.
I removed the two giant eagles and the series of snowy pit traps that only he knew the location of in the pass. That tends to make the encounter harder. He can drink a potion of haste before stepping out; that definitely makes him harder. It may be metagaming, but as soon under AD&D he makes two attacks two rounds in a row, smart players know he is at least 12th level. That has caused an immediate surrender.
Of course you saw the rolls and players immediately knew he was about 12th level by his attack roll.
Regardless, parties have surrendered and worked for him to finish the adventure. I understand that some...
Those indeed are serious warnings, but they are all completely meta, and I don't think should be considered. Say you have an opponent for your PCs in any game, and one of them has seen the module on display and gathers some clue from that that goes all out meta, and makes him literally roadkill your opponent - GMs will not usually like that, and I would say may even go out of their way to modify the bad guy to make sure he puts up a fight regardless of meta knowledge.
In this case, we cannot advocate the same meta knowledge as a way to warn the players, at least I don't think we should - not the cover, not the king's attack rolls or dice, the two attack s in a round - it is all completely meta, and surrendering on that basis would never make sense for me, much less for our characters.
Last but not least, I just want to make things clear by saying I have nothing against the encounter itself, exactly as it is written, and there is no issues for me that we were defeated - defeat and death SHOULD happen in RPG games, as well as sound victories (I actually advocate that a VERY well organized group that always wins due to fine plans and good tactics, deserve it the way it is - if they prepare and are good, they deserve to win, but that is an entirely different discussion altogether).
So I am fine with the encounter, I think it encourages players to dig deeper into their missions - I think we should have inquired more around town, I think we should have a scout in front of the group at all times, I think we should have pondered the stalking wolf a tad more (though it is not abnormal for a wolf to stalk its prey for days...) - I can think of a few more things we could do BUT in my book, as it is, without meta knowledge (as it should be in my opinion), this encounter is a TPK just waiting to happen, and likely to happen in most cases - as it is, I think it is built to BE a TPK :D
That being said, GAME ON!!