Pathfinder GM Core

Figured this is a good place to bring this up.

Putting an acronym in the title is not good from an accessibility standpoint. Should probably be "Gamemastery Core" or "Game Master Core". I presume there's no way to change this now before this goes to print. Figured the name was just an abbreviation before I saw the final product page.

Also, do we know if this or the Monster Core 1 will have anything on what monster abilities are appropriate for what minimum levels? The numbers guidance provided is solid enough, but what would be nice is something like what action-compressions are acceptable at what levels? Like what level does one go from Grab to Improved Grab, at least roughly? Draconic Momentum, Double Slice, the Amalgam's Too Many Limbs, the Doprillu's Whirling Strike and Whirlwind Throw, what levels are any of these okay at? What condition numbers are okay at what levels. For example, if you go up levels you'll note that monsters start capping the drained they inflict at 1, then 2, then 3, then 4, but there is no indication in the monster creation guides about when this is fine. What is acceptable scaling for poisons and the conditions attached? Things like that make creating homebrew monsters much harder.

Thank you for your input. The names are decided.

Those Monster Core details are not yet available.

I'm very excited to get my hands on this. Thank you for all the hard work!

It is a very good idea to split up the GM and player information into separate core books. Probably will help a lot with rule lawyering -- and generally make this a lot more fun to play. GMs will now be more able to use these rules as guidance rather than law. They will have more of an ability to alter rules for their games as needed. Very, very good move!!

Are there any examples of the improved layout and order? visually?

Are there any examples of the improved layout and order? visually?

We didn't get any visual preview during PaizoCon because they didn't have time to finish wrting it in time to have visuals for the panels, sadly. I would guess GenCon would have some, at the latest.

I'm very much looking forward to the "Remaster" series of books. I think it is the right move to publish Paizo material under the ORC license. I'm very much hoping that Paizo is very careful to remove all WotC intellectual property from the books. I don't want a protracted lawsuit. I just want to put the whole thing behind us and move on without WotC or their interference.

I can't wait. Thank you, Paizo, for all the hard work.

The description of this product says it’s 336 pages. The lines at the bottom of the description say that the special and pocket editions are 640 pages. Somebody copied and pasted and forgot to edit the numbers.

I've been away from Pathfinder for a while. Are these new 'Core' books basically Pathfinder 2.5, and replacing the current single-volume core rulebook?
Will you be able to continue with the game using the existing books, or will you need the new books to use future supplements? Thanks.

Yes and yes

It's not Pathfinder 2.5, more like Pathfinder 2.1. The game engine and the math behind it hasn't changed, but they've removed OGL material from game, updated the game with a ton of errata, and made the layout of the books much easier for new players.

Other than that, yes. GM Core will replace the Gamemastery Guide eventually, same with Player Core replacing the Core Rulebook. And you can certainly keep using the old books with the new Remaster version of the rules.

I've been away from Pathfinder for a while. Are these new 'Core' books basically Pathfinder 2.5, and replacing the current single-volume core rulebook?

Will you be able to continue with the game using the existing books, or will you need the new books to use future supplements? Thanks.

Yeah people here will tell you that it's not 2.5 but that's being disingenuous at best. To me it's as big of a change as 3.0 to 3.5 was.

They've also removed spell schools which again changes a bit how wizards work.

I did a lot of converting from 3.0 to 3.5 back in the day and was able to run those converted supplements and adventures with minimum hassle. That's NOT going to be the case with going from PF2 to PF2 remaster.
Spells are being renamed, monsters are being renamed, how some classes work are being changed. I've been watching all of the interviews and panels about the remaster since it was announced. The individual changes on their own don't seem like much. But when taken into account as a WHOLE? I don't see how people can make the argument that it's a 2.1 update with a straight face.

I look forward to the finished remaster rules and I 100% understand and support why Paizo and its designers are doing this. But to say that it's not AT LEAST a .5 update is...not really rooted in a practical reality
aka marketing speak.

It's basically the exact same stuff we got told for the conversion from 3.0 to 3.5 back then.

And, hey, I'm all FOR the Remaster, it's what got me to finally convert over from 1E (and eventually my players, too, ahem), buy all the hardcover rulebooks except the CRB and APG (due to Player Core 1+2 obsoleting them), re-suscribe to the rulebook and AP lines for Pathfinder AND Starfinder and get into PFS. I actually want BIGGER changes, especially now that the Kineticist has decisively shown that you can balance spellcasters around the action economy and they will function just fine, no daily limited spell slots needed for that.

But I guess some people are terrified that the people who converted over from D&D 5E and bought their CRB's will run away again if they hear that they'll need to buy the new Remaster rulebooks. Therefore everybody who points out how big the changes already are from what we know by this point (with probably much more to come in Player Core 2) must be firmly told that "it's only 2.1, you hear! NOT 2.5!". ^^

Buying all the Remaster books is going to be expensive. I'm going to do it anyway. So what if I don't eat for a month or two? :-)

Buying all the Remaster books is going to be expensive. I'm going to do it anyway. So what if I don't eat for a month or two? :-)

Yup. Each book is going to be the price of the ONE 2E CRB.

The PF2E CRB = $59.99
The PF2E BESTIARY = $49.99
The PF2E BESTIARY 2 = $49.99
The PF2E BESTIARY 3 = $49.99

And these came out 3-4 years ago.

Now:

Remaster Player Core = $59.99
Remaster GM Core = $59.99
Remaster Monster Core = $59.99
Remaster Player Core 2 = $59.99

Again I understand and support why Paizo is doing this, but the more I think about this the more I think it's super risky financially. I don't see the excitement for this that I saw for PF2E because it's so soon after PF2E. And as a fan, I've already decided that for the time being I can't support this with my hobby dollars. I'd like to but, rationally the math isnt mathing for me. I'm going to stick with PF2E and let that just be my jumping-off point with PF and Paizo.

Maybe I'll change my mind at a later date (I've done it before) but there are more than a few things I have an issue with regarding this remaster in terms of rules changes. I'm not averse to changes but the removal of alignment and spell schools is a big one for me and I'm not sure if I can look past it. It's good for Paizo as a brand and they NEED to separate themselves from D&D to be their own thing. But I've been playing long enough where while not perfect, alignment and spell schools represent enough of a relevant shorthand where if they're not part of the system I might as well be playing or running a different game. Which I suppose at this point, the remaster IS.

Ed Reppert wrote:

Buying all the Remaster books is going to be expensive. I'm going to do it anyway. So what if I don't eat for a month or two? :-)

Yup. Each book is going to be the price of the ONE 2E CRB.

The PF2E CRB = $59.99
The PF2E BESTIARY = $49.99
The PF2E BESTIARY 2 = $49.99
The PF2E BESTIARY 3 = $49.99

And these came out 3-4 years ago.

Now:

Remaster Player Core = $59.99
Remaster GM Core = $59.99
Remaster Monster Core = $59.99
Remaster Player Core 2 = $59.99

Again I understand and support why Paizo is doing this, but the more I think about this the more I think it's super risky financially. I don't see the excitement for this that I saw for PF2E because it's so soon after PF2E. And as a fan, I've already decided that for the time being I can't support this with my hobby dollars. I'd like to but, rationally the math isnt mathing for me. I'm going to stick with PF2E and let that just be my jumping-off point with PF and Paizo.

Maybe I'll change my mind at a later date (I've done it before) but there are more than a few things I have an issue with regarding this remaster in terms of rules changes. I'm not averse to changes but the removal of alignment and spell schools is a big one for me and I'm not sure if I can look past it. It's good for Paizo as a brand and they NEED to separate themselves from D&D to be their own thing. But I've been playing long enough where while not perfect, alignment and spell schools represent enough of a relevant shorthand where if they're not part of the system I might as well be playing or running a different game. Which I suppose at this point, the remaster IS.

Not sure why you're comparing the Core set of books to the CRB and the first 3 Bestiaries. You should be comparing them to the prices of the CRB, APG, first Bestiary and the GMG. 'Though honestly, it'd math out the same. The price increase has already been attributed to the increased costs of making books and shipping them from their printers in China. So that’s just the way the cookie crumbles.

But it's been said by Paizo themselves that this wasn't a big money move. They COULD have just said "screw it" and pushed for a PF3E and generated a ton of revenue from it, as new editions tend to be extremely profitable when they first release. But they elected to do otherwise, as they saw the value of the community they already grew out from PF2E, and knew this situation was more about preserving open gaming and keeping their company safe from WotC than turning over a quick buck.

Some designers from Paizo have even encouraged people NOT to pick up these books if said people were on the fence about it. Paizo is putting in a way for Rulebook subscribers to skip out on the Remaster book releases, and as always, they encourage folks to check out any changes on Archives of Nethys. They know this isn't a financially safe move. But it was never about making tons of money to begin with.

I'm probably not gonna pick up the books myself, due to my current financial situation. But I know I can just wait for the .PDFs to drop for $20 a book in November, or forgo it all to read it for free on AoN. No sweat off my back.

In spite of what the First Liar tells us, inflation is a thing.

Putting the items back in the GM guide is a step back, going back to that old style of splitting things up like from D&D. Would be curious to know if the reasoning is page count ballooning in the Player Core getting out of hand, the proliferation of the internet tools like AoN making it less of an issue, or financial so it would not be as "skippable" a book like the last two GM guides could be?

From what we’ve been told, having “everything” in one massive tome was as much as a draw as it was a deterrent. So splitting them makes them more manageable.

also the previous GMG book wasn’t really shippable as it had the npc building rules in it.

From what we’ve been told, having “everything” in one massive tome was as much as a draw as it was a deterrent. So splitting them makes them more manageable.

also the previous GMG book wasn’t really shippable as it had the npc building rules in it.

It was skippable if you didn't intend to build any monsters (not me but many players likely felt that way).

Cutting down on page count probably helped to keep prices down and moving items to GMG helps to allow them to expand rules in other areas as well. Player Core has more ancestries and versatile heritages that aren't in the CRB.

Good to see that the tradition of the Gamemaster's Guide, or equivalent, having a Runelord on the cover continues.

Some designers from Paizo have even encouraged people NOT to pick up these books if said people were on the fence about it. Paizo is putting in a way for Rulebook subscribers to skip out on the Remaster book releases, and as always, they encourage folks to check out any changes on Archives of Nethys. They know this isn't a financially safe move. But it was never about making tons of money to begin with.

They said it wasn't going to be mandatory on release until they announced that it's mandatory on release.

From the Paizo Blog post, Pathfinder Society and the Remaster, "Game Rules 1. Players and GMs must use the remastered rules of the game immediately where possible." Alex later clarified that "Immediately" means the release date, not immediately. Also "Beginning on November 15, 2023, no new characters may be created using the class chassis printed in the Core Rulebook if the class has been reprinted in the Player Core."

I do not like the way that PF2.5 has been handled so far. Yes, there are lots of exceptions, allowances, etc. But, I'm pretty sure it was Jason Buhlman that admitted in one of the early videos about the remaster that many of these changes were supposed to be in 2E at release, but they wanted the legacy players to buy in and they didn't think enough would come over if they cut out things like alignment and spell schools. Then we were told that the rules in the remaster won't be mandatory on day 1. See my statement above.

Despite how I feel about the surroundings of the release, I'm going to give it a fair appraisal once my books come in.

Ezekieru wrote:

Some designers from Paizo have even encouraged people NOT to pick up these books if said people were on the fence about it. Paizo is putting in a way for Rulebook subscribers to skip out on the Remaster book releases, and as always, they encourage folks to check out any changes on Archives of Nethys. They know this isn't a financially safe move. But it was never about making tons of money to begin with.

They said it wasn't going to be mandatory on release until they announced that it's mandatory on release.

From the Paizo Blog post, Pathfinder Society and the Remaster, "Game Rules 1. Players and GMs must use the remastered rules of the game immediately where possible." Alex later clarified that "Immediately" means the release date, not immediately. Also "Beginning on November 15, 2023, no new characters may be created using the class chassis printed in the Core Rulebook if the class has been reprinted in the Player Core."

I do not like the way that PF2.5 has been handled so far. Yes, there are lots of exceptions, allowances, etc. But, I'm pretty sure it was Jason Buhlman that admitted in one of the early videos about the remaster that many of these changes were supposed to be in 2E at release, but they wanted the legacy players to buy in and they didn't think enough would come over if they cut out things like alignment and spell schools. Then we were told that the rules in the remaster won't be mandatory on day 1. See my statement above.

Despite how I feel about the surroundings of the release, I'm going to give it a fair appraisal once my books come in.

I do not remember anyone stating that PFS would not use the Remastered rules.

They said it wasn't going to be mandatory on release until they announced that it's mandatory on release.

From the Paizo Blog post, Pathfinder Society and the Remaster, "Game Rules 1. Players and GMs must use the remastered rules of the game immediately where possible." Alex later clarified that "Immediately" means the release date, not immediately. Also "Beginning on November 15, 2023, no new characters may be created using the class chassis printed in the Core Rulebook if the class has been reprinted in the Player Core."

I do not like the way that PF2.5 has been handled so far. Yes, there are lots of exceptions, allowances, etc. But, I'm pretty sure it was Jason Buhlman that admitted in one of the early videos about the remaster that many of these changes were supposed to be in 2E at release, but they wanted the legacy players to buy in and they didn't think enough would come over if they cut out things like alignment and spell schools. Then we were told that the rules in the remaster won't be mandatory on day 1. See my statement above.

Despite how I feel about the surroundings of the release, I'm going to give it a fair appraisal once my books come in.

If you are playing Pathfinder Society games, you are required to use the Remastered ruleset.

If you and your buddies are playing Pathfinder at home, use whatever rules you like.

These statements are 100% consistent with the messaging that Paizo has put out about the Remaster.

I'm hearing via Reddit threads that most of the Variant Rules from the GMG have been cut from GM Core.

Has there been any official explanation or discussion about why this is - and how it was decided which ones to keep and which to cut (which seems inconsistent with my observed sense of their relative popularity and use)?

These are the variant rules in GM Core: Automatic Bonus Progression, Free Archetype, Level 0 Characters, Proficiency without Level. All the other have been cut, for now. There is no explanation as to why.

It seems to me that if a variant rule has not been Remastered, it is still available from the GMG. Perhaps not for PFS, but otherwise it should be. IOW, I don't think "cut" is the right word.

These are the variant rules in GM Core: Automatic Bonus Progression, Free Archetype, Level 0 Characters, Proficiency without Level. All the other have been cut, for now. There is no explanation as to why.

Sad that Ability Score Per Level has been cut. In my opinion, that should be a base rule and as suggested above, we will continue to use it.

Does it not being reprinted cause any issues with just using the previous version?

The only thing I can think of would be PFS... which doesn't allow variant rules to begin with.

These are the variant rules in GM Core: Automatic Bonus Progression, Free Archetype, Level 0 Characters, Proficiency without Level. All the other have been cut, for now. There is no explanation as to why.

Someone in reddit said "Kineticist's elemental blast" is out of "auto potency/strike"... Errata needed (Unless GM allowed to craft it)!

Just two more weeks!

Skeleton Key references the spell "Breach" which does not exist

PROPERTY RUNES above the Fundamental rune table on page 224 should likely be FUNDAMENTAL RUNES

Transferring Runes section on page 225 references the Craft activity normally taking 4 days, when that is no longer the case

It seems to me that if a variant rule has not been Remastered, it is still available from the GMG. Perhaps not for PFS, but otherwise it should be. IOW, I don't think "cut" is the right word.

Very short-sighted comment here, IMO.

Still available in the GMG until Paizo is out of stock, at which time no more physical copies will be available other than used on the secondary market. I assume PDFs will also stop being offered once the new book is out.

So, not really available for very much longer at all. New players will have no idea these rules ever existed unless they want to engage in PF2 archaeology expeditions.

also the previous GMG book wasn’t really shippable as it had the npc building rules in it.

What does this mean?

Aren't these books supposed to be just for OGL compliance and light errata?

The GMG is still hosted at AoN, so if they are looking up rules online they can find it there.

They also still sell PF1 PDFs, there's almost 0 chances for them to stop selling the non-remastered PDFs.

Archive of Nethys is an official repository of PF2 rules. Even if GM is out of print it doesn't mean the rules no longer exist.

Ed Reppert wrote:

It seems to me that if a variant rule has not been Remastered, it is still available from the GMG. Perhaps not for PFS, but otherwise it should be. IOW, I don't think "cut" is the right word.

Very short-sighted comment here, IMO.

Still available in the GMG until Paizo is out of stock, at which time no more physical copies will be available other than used on the secondary market. I assume PDFs will also stop being offered once the new book is out.

So, not really available for very much longer at all. New players will have no idea these rules ever existed unless they want to engage in PF2 archaeology expeditions.

Short-sighted? Nonsense. First, *all* the rule are and will remain available for free on Archives of Nethys. Second, your assumption that PDFs will stop being offered after November 15 is a bit short-sighted itself. I have seen *no* indication from Paizo that their intent is to pull those pdfs, especially since they have said repeatedly that the "old" rules will still remain in effect. The only thing that might give sense to pulling the pdfs is that if they don't they'd still be selling OGL material, but they're still doing that right now, aren't they?

tl;dr: don't count something as "cut" until it's actually cut.

Just waiting for release, can't wait to see those sketch covers.

There are no plans to remove legacy Pathfinder PDF from the store. I understand legacy content will remain in the SRD, accessible via a toggle.

I'm very much looking forward to the "Remaster" series of books. I think it is the right move to publish Paizo material under the ORC license. I'm very much hoping that Paizo is very careful to remove all WotC intellectual property from the books. I don't want a protracted lawsuit. I just want to put the whole thing behind us and move on without WotC or their interference.

I can't wait. Thank you, Paizo, for all the hard work.

Happy Pathfinder 2e Remaster Eve Day!

Another day, another ugly, over-compressed PDF from Paizo. Why doesn't anybody making the PDFs care about quality? It's disrespectful to customers and your talented artists. Rage of Elements and a bunch of other PDFs still look like crap too. And no hyperlinks?

Another day, another ugly, over-compressed PDF from Paizo. Why doesn't anybody making the PDFs care about quality? It's disrespectful to customers and your talented artists. Rage of Elements and a bunch of other PDFs still look like crap too. And no hyperlinks?

I'm not seeing any problems with my pdf so far. Everything seems crisp and clear. (I'm using the single file version.) Can you point me to a particular page or image that you would consider really bad so I can see what you mean?

Huh axis mentions "primal monitors". Perhaps Valmallos will live post ogl :'D

So here's the big question for me. I am more than happy to pick up the Player Core. Is GM Core worth picking up if I already have Gamemastery Guide? I don't think I've seen anything major about magic items changing (as opposed to classes for Players). If there was more desposible income, I wouldn't mind getting this one too... but unfortunately I have to pick and choose right now.

So here's the big question for me. I am more than happy to pick up the Player Core. Is GM Core worth picking up if I already have Gamemastery Guide? I don't think I've seen anything major about magic items changing (as opposed to classes for Players). If there was more desposible income, I wouldn't mind getting this one too... but unfortunately I have to pick and choose right now.

There does seem to be lot of new magic items at least, but mostly replacing items that used to give wizard school bonuses (like the 8 school staffs)

It does have other neat stuff I don't think was in original book, though I don't know if its really "worth it" or not since that's subjective.

It's been an all day wait. I still have 3 pending transactions for this PDF, no PDF, and no email confirmation. What is going on?

FallenDabus wrote:

So here's the big question for me. I am more than happy to pick up the Player Core. Is GM Core worth picking up if I already have Gamemastery Guide? I don't think I've seen anything major about magic items changing (as opposed to classes for Players). If there was more desposible income, I wouldn't mind getting this one too... but unfortunately I have to pick and choose right now.

There does seem to be lot of new magic items at least, but mostly replacing items that used to give wizard school bonuses (like the 8 school staffs)

It does have other neat stuff I don't think was in original book, though I don't know if its really "worth it" or not since that's subjective.

Knowing there is other stuff is useful!

It's been an all day wait. I still have 3 pending transactions for this PDF, no PDF, and no email confirmation. What is going on?

Please email Customer Service.

Has anybody received their subscription orders for these books? I was billed on Oct 27th, allegedly shipped on Nov 1st (4-8 days shipping) and UPS continues to say the tracking number doesn't exist. Emailing Customer Service 7 days and 3 days ago has received no response either. It is currently Nov 17th.

I've had packages disappear before so I'm not sure if it's a delay in the actual shipping on Paizo's part or if I should be worried about another lost package (that cost me $135 this time).

Thanks!