Pathfinder Rage of Elements

Nishah Lharast wrote:

I have a question,

I just received my Rage of elements pdf and I went to peak at the kineticist before work. The first ability listed is Attribute Boosts, this gives "In addition to what you get from your class at 1st level, you have four free boosts to different attribute modifiers".

I understand this is language relating to the ORC documents but until we see the character creation guidelines in the new Core Rulebook I feel a little lost. Do these replace the 4 free boosts character creation had, moving them to the class entry

I think so, or else it's just redundant language from Player Core 1 reminding people how Attributes work.

It looks bad no matter how it is supposed to work. The class level of attribute generation would then work out to "pick one stat not to boost (which can't be the class's prime stat) and add one boost to all five of the others."

NECR0G1ANT wrote:

Nishah Lharast wrote:

I have a question,

I just received my Rage of elements pdf and I went to peak at the kineticist before work. The first ability listed is Attribute Boosts, this gives "In addition to what you get from your class at 1st level, you have four free boosts to different attribute modifiers".

I understand this is language relating to the ORC documents but until we see the character creation guidelines in the new Core Rulebook I feel a little lost. Do these replace the 4 free boosts character creation had, moving them to the class entry

I think so, or else it's just redundant language from Player Core 1 reminding people how Attributes work.

It looks bad no matter how it is supposed to work. The class level of attribute generation would then work out to "pick one stat not to boost (which can't be the class's prime stat) and add one boost to all five of the others."

That was how it worked in the current PF2. I bet Remastered is different. Otherwise, it would mess things up for the other non-Remastered classes.

So, just stat your Kineticist as usual.

Any new Dragons? And given the Builders got a level tweaking, what level are the Vault Keepers?

No dragon stat blocks but there is a Wood elemental called a snapdrake, a Wooden dragon Skeleton covered in colorful flowers.

The Keepers are 14, not sure how that compares.

NoNat1s dives into the Kineticist feats in this second preview!

NM Jessica. I just got the pdf. I just noticed it.

I am taking AMAs about the book.

Heyo! Two questions, if I may ^_^

1) Did the Kinetic/Elemental Weapon universal feat survive in some form?
and
2) What are the prerequisites for the Kineticist dedication and what all does it give you?

Thanks muchly in advance! <3

Verzen wrote:

NM Jessica. I just got the pdf. I just noticed it.

I am taking AMAs about the book.

Heyo! Two questions, if I may ^_^

1) Did the Kinetic/Elemental Weapon universal feat survive in some form?
and
2) What are the prerequisites for the Kineticist dedication and what all does it give you?

Thanks muchly in advance! <3

1) sort of

2) Con +2

And it gives max expert in kinetic blast and impulses.

It gives blast as well, but the blast is slightly weaker. Channel doesn't provide a free blast.

Nishah Lharast wrote:

I have a question,

I just received my Rage of elements pdf and I went to peak at the kineticist before work. The first ability listed is Attribute Boosts, this gives "In addition to what you get from your class at 1st level, you have four free boosts to different attribute modifiers".

I understand this is language relating to the ORC documents but until we see the character creation guidelines in the new Core Rulebook I feel a little lost. Do these replace the 4 free boosts character creation had, moving them to the class entry

I think so, or else it's just redundant language from Player Core 1 reminding people how Attributes work.

I am almost certain this is the case. The number of people who I have played with making their first character sheet on their own, on paper, that missed the free boosts is nearly all of them. I think we will get solid answers when the core preview document goes up. Hopefully someone from Paizo can answer what this means since the PDF is out for subscribers and my understanding the core preview doesn't go up until the PDF goes on sale August 3rd.

Question for the developers who may see this, Roiling mudslide says it does damage to all creatures in the area but doesn’t say what the area is. What should the area be?

I would imagine (or at least hope) that the way ability boosts *work* hasn't changed, though clarification on the language would be helpful. That's the awkward part of releasing the PDF's of Rage of Elements before the PDF for the initial Remaster changes drop.

If it did change, however, and thus prevent a character from starting with an 18 in any modifier because the free boosts are part of the same boost you get from your Class, that would have some pretty MAJOR rippling effects.

It would mean that, if you invested in your primary ability at every level up to 20th, you'd end with a fractional modifier (they have already stated that you'll still need to spend two ability boosts once you hit 4+ to increase the modifier), whereas with the current system you would end with a whole +6 modifier

Existing where you can get an ability to +4 at level 1: 1st: +4, 5th: +4(.5), 10th: +5, 15th: +5(.5), 20th: +6

Hypothetical limit of +3 at Level 1: (1st: +3, 5th: +4, 10th: +4(.5), 15th: +5, 20th: +5.(5))

That seems so awkward and inelegant compared to the previous math that I'd be pretty shocked if that's the direction Paizo is heading in the Remaster. Especially because "just don't invest in that score, then" would be a very poor justification for allowing such awkward fractions. Maybe if they had a hard cap of +5, so you couldn't get +5.5?

But then would all DCs be and enemy modifiers be lowered by 1 to compensate for the new lower maximum PC modifiers?

Again, I think this is a case of really inelegant and imprecise writing rather than the designers breaking a system that already worked, which would seem antithetical to the point of the Remaster (outside of the OGL stuff)

I think it is more that we do not have the complete vision of how Remastered words character creation.

David knott 242 wrote:

NECR0G1ANT wrote:

Nishah Lharast wrote:

I have a question,

I just received my Rage of elements pdf and I went to peak at the kineticist before work. The first ability listed is Attribute Boosts, this gives "In addition to what you get from your class at 1st level, you have four free boosts to different attribute modifiers".

I understand this is language relating to the ORC documents but until we see the character creation guidelines in the new Core Rulebook I feel a little lost. Do these replace the 4 free boosts character creation had, moving them to the class entry

I think so, or else it's just redundant language from Player Core 1 reminding people how Attributes work.

It looks bad no matter how it is supposed to work. The class level of attribute generation would then work out to "pick one stat not to boost (which can't be the class's prime stat) and add one boost to all five of the others."

That was how it worked in the current PF2. I bet Remastered is different. Otherwise, it would mess things up for the other non-Remastered classes.

So, just stat your Kineticist as usual.

The current entry on ability boosts in the CRB says "An ability boost normally increases an ability score’s value by 2. However, if the ability score to which you’re applying an ability boost is already 18 or higher, its value increases by only 1. At 1st level, a character can never have any ability score that’s higher than 18.

I expect in the remastered books it's going to say something like "An ability boost normally increases an ability modifier's value by 1. However, if the ability modifier to which you’re applying an ability boost is already +4 or higher, its value increases by only 1/2, and is then rounded down.. At 1st level, a character can never have any ability modifier that’s higher than +4."

And of course the base for these modifiers is 0.

So apparently a gaming outlet called Bols released a Water chapter preview a few days ago. But, I guess it was completely overshadowed by the early subscriber releases. Even the Paizo social media people never said anything.

So apparently a gaming outlet called Bols released a Water chapter preview a few days ago. But, I guess it was completely overshadowed by the early subscriber releases. Even the Paizo social media people never said anything.

Yeah, the AMAs started on Friday when some of us started getting books. Once that happens, previews lose their luster. Bols missed their window for premium viewership and coverage.

Seems Nonat1 realized he missed an opportunity too as he put out a lvl 1 metal and wood kineticist feet preview hours after the first 2 AMAs came along. Him doing a full class guide will still be entertaining though. His first video and the latest just seemed rushed (and probably were, given his current life state).

'Wood' You Like to Know More? Read this preview from Geek Dad!

I think Splinter Volley spell should have the Attack trait, right? It even specifies that it increases MAP. Might need to errata that so Magus can use it.

The Rules Lawyer previews the Kineticist (part 1)

Man now I'm extra curious if wood and metal elemental lords would have been LN and CN if not for alignment removal :'D Curse you OGL and wizards

(Verilorn kinda seems like LN?)

Just got my .pdf and working my way through, really enjoying it so far!

Question: Perhaps I'm missing it, but did they not add options for Wood and Metal for the spell Elemental Form? I see it for Element Embodied, but not its lower level sibling.

First time subscriber here. How long does it normally take for everything to ship? It's weird that some subscribers get the pdfs days before others.

First time subscriber here. How long does it normally take for everything to ship? It's weird that some subscribers get the pdfs days before others.

That's pretty usual. Sometimes, the last shipments even leave after the street date. Luck of the draw.

Just got my .pdf and working my way through, really enjoying it so far!

Question: Perhaps I'm missing it, but did they not add options for Wood and Metal for the spell Elemental Form? I see it for Element Embodied, but not its lower level sibling.

There's going to be a document that comes out that will go over a lot of the stuff from the remaster that has to do with RoE, new elemental forms will likely be in there if we're lucky.

I think Splinter Volley spell should have the Attack trait, right? It even specifies that it increases MAP. Might need to errata that so Magus can use it.

I also think the number of actions is inconsistent with other stat blocks. RoE is using new remaster spell block format and moves the action cost next to the name like feats, but Splinter Volley is a two or three action spell, which would have shown that in the "Cast" line before (see Chromatic Armor as an example). So in the new stat block form, shouldn't it show more like the Monk feat One Inch Punch which is like this:

So now that the book has released, what do you think of it?

Is there cool stuff for skunks and stegosauruses in this book?

The quality of images in the pdf are exceptionally bad by Paizo's standards. So many of them are pixelated or littered with compression artifacts. Not even the pathfinder logo at the top of most pages is reasonable quality. If you need a good reference to compare, look at the circular kineticist symbol on page 13 vs the class symbol in any other PF2e book. The symbols in other books are quite crisp at any reasonable zoom. The Kineticist symbol is blurry and with obvious pixels of the circle surrounding it.

As another reference point, at 23MB this is the smallest filesize of any PF2e rulebook I own, which excludes Book of the Dead and APG. Next smallest is the GMG, which, while longer, is pretty text heavy. After that is Dark Archive, which is the same length as RoE, at 35MB. So it would seem as though we got an overly compressed version.

Really hoping this isn't the version of the images Paizo sent to the printer and that a corrected pdf can be made available for download.

I can't speak for my own experience since I don't have the newest book, but I find it funny that every major release I've kept track of (a handful) has seen many people complaining about how large the pdf files are. I don't know if that's why the images are so compressed, just that it's unfortunate that it's so hard to find a win.

Knights of Last Call do a deep dive on the Kineticist (4 1/2 hours stream).

First time subscriber here. How long does it normally take for everything to ship? It's weird that some subscribers get the pdfs days before others.

As can be seen on the shipping thread, there is usually a 2 week period during which shipping occurs, so this is not unusual.

It looks like the rules update page did not include any of the spell name changes (ignition, vapor form, maybe some others I haven't noticed). Could we get a list of updated spell names for use with the book, so we're not left guessing until October / the Core Preview?

Trait change I noticed.
Metamagic has been renamed Spellshape.
It's in the feats for the Elementalist Archtype.

It looks like the rules update page did not include any of the spell name changes (ignition, vapor form, maybe some others I haven't noticed). Could we get a list of updated spell names for use with the book, so we're not left guessing until October / the Core Preview?

So, we're going to keep missing information we need to actually fully use the book we purchased. Got it.

This isn't a cheap book, I don't think it's asking for lot when asking for the stuff that's in it to actually be usable.

Lazarus Dark wrote:

I think Splinter Volley spell should have the Attack trait, right? It even specifies that it increases MAP. Might need to errata that so Magus can use it.

I also think the number of actions is inconsistent with other stat blocks. RoE is using new remaster spell block format and moves the action cost next to the name like feats, but Splinter Volley is a two or three action spell, which would have shown that in the "Cast" line before (see Chromatic Armor as an example). So in the new stat block form, shouldn't it show more like the Monk feat One Inch Punch which is like this:

⬗⬗ or ⬗⬗⬗

Another potential error: the crit success effect is listed twice in Slashing Gust, this is redundant and not how spells are usually written.

I don't envy the writers/editors on RoE, they were nearly ready to print probably when suddenly they had to rewrite/edit everything for Remaster changes while trying to figure out what those changes even ARE, and still make the print deadline for RoE. That's a difficult and probably stressful situation and I have huge sympathy for missing some things! Thankfully we shouldn't have to wait years for errata, since errata is supposed to come quicker now.

I've dug a bit through the book, and have gathered a list of new spell names and/or replacement spells and mapped them to what I think are old OGL spells. Here's my list:

barkskin => oaken resilience
burning hands => breathe fire
chill touch => frostbite
comprehend language => translate
cone of cold => howling blizzard
dimension door => translocate
dimensional lock => planar seal
endure elements => enviromental endurance
entangle => entangling flora
flaming sphere => blazing bolt
flesh to stone => petrify
gaseous form => vapor form
gentle repose => peaceful rest
ghost sound => figment
glitterdust => revealing light
hallucinatory terrain => mirage
know direction => know the way
mage armor => mystic armor
mage hand => telekinetic hand
magic weapon => runic weapon
meld into stone => one with stone
meteor swarm => falling star
obscuring mist => mist
plane shift => interplanar teleport
produce flame => ignition
purify food and drink => cleanse cuisine
see invisibility => see the unseen
stone skin => mountain resilience
stone tell => speak with stone
storm of vengeance => wrathful storm
tanglefoot => tangle vine
tongues => truespeech
treeshape => one with plants
treestride => nature's pathway
true seeing => truesight

This list is not small and that leads me to believe that all spell names from the SRD will likely be replaced unless they are trivial names like "fireball" or "invisibility". Magic items might be similarly affected.

Also, new are the materials “dawnsilver” and “duskwood”, very likely the new names for mithral and darkwood. Furthermore, metamagic seems to be renamed to “spellshape”.

Oh, and some of the planes have been renamed:

Material Plane => The Universe
Shadow Plane => The Netherworld
Negative Energy Plane => The Void
Positive Energy Plane => Creation's Forge
The Abyss => The Outer RIfts

Note, however, that none of these names are new – in fact, they've been around since 2010 as alternate plane names presented in the PF1 Gamemastery Guide.

"Gatecrasher Armor" doesn't appear to be a statted item, despite being something in the item table for the Munsahir (formerly Azer!) Gatecrashers.

“Gatecrasher Armor” doesn't appear to be a statted item, despite being something in the item table for the Munsahir (formerly Azer!) Gatecrashers.

Above the statblock of the Munsahir Gatecrasher, the general text says, “Typically members of the nobility, gatecrashers wear advanced power armor.” I take it this means that the “gatecrasher armor” mentioned in the statblock is that power armor, and likely akin to an inventor class feature.

Also, new are the materials “dawnsilver” and “duskwood”, very likely the new names for mithral and darkwood. Furthermore, metamagic seems to be renamed to “spellshape”.

Dawnsilver Is probably silversheen or something new, Mithril isn’t owned by WotC.

Mithril is owned by JRR Tolkiens estate.
Mithral (the legally distinct material, is part of the OGL legacy)

So I suspect Dawnsilver is the Mithril/Mithral replacement.

with the i is owned by the Tolkien estate, but the sheer amount of stuff it shows up in over the past decades made me believe it was open. Hmm

The quality of images in the pdf are exceptionally bad by Paizo's standards. So many of them are pixelated or littered with compression artifacts. Not even the pathfinder logo at the top of most pages is reasonable quality. If you need a good reference to compare, look at the circular kineticist symbol on page 13 vs the class symbol in any other PF2e book. The symbols in other books are quite crisp at any reasonable zoom. The Kineticist symbol is blurry and with obvious pixels of the circle surrounding it.

As another reference point, at 23MB this is the smallest filesize of any PF2e rulebook I own, which excludes Book of the Dead and APG. Next smallest is the GMG, which, while longer, is pretty text heavy. After that is Dark Archive, which is the same length as RoE, at 35MB. So it would seem as though we got an overly compressed version.

Really hoping this isn't the version of the images Paizo sent to the printer and that a corrected pdf can be made available for download.

I came here to post this, basically. I even picked the same class symbol on the same page as my point of comparison (against the Thaumaturge in the Dark Archive).

PDF sizes have been all over the place and hugely bloated lately, and really needs to be addressed, but not like this.

And so Mythril is alias for Dawnsilver.

Myth pun intended.

...Man what is point of copyright when there is three extremely similar sounding words with different spelling? :'D

...Man what is point of copyright when there is three extremely similar sounding words with different spelling? :'D

The enforcement part

Zaister wrote:

Also, new are the materials “dawnsilver” and “duskwood”, very likely the new names for mithral and darkwood. Furthermore, metamagic seems to be renamed to “spellshape”.

Dawnsilver Is probably silversheen or something new, Mithril isn’t owned by WotC.

Well, this is what the glossary says:

dawnsilver (material) A light, durable form of silver.
duskwood (material) A dark, lightweight wood with a purple tint.

Rysky wrote:

Zaister wrote:

Also, new are the materials “dawnsilver” and “duskwood”, very likely the new names for mithral and darkwood. Furthermore, metamagic seems to be renamed to “spellshape”.

Dawnsilver Is probably silversheen or something new, Mithril isn’t owned by WotC.

Well, this is what the glossary says:

dawnsilver (material) A light, durable form of silver.
duskwood (material) A dark, lightweight wood with a purple tint.

Yeah unfortunately I had it confirmed elsewhere that it's the new mithril.

Thankies for responses.

I love the variety, although after the hype now I sure feel empty having read the book hahah.

Unfortunately there are some typos or at least weird spellings that I have found...

Kinetic Expertise seems to have a somewhat duplicated flavor text:
"Your kinetic gate grows stronger, making your elements harder to resist. The power flowing from you is even harder to resist. Your proficiency rank for your kineticist class DC increases to expert."

And Gate Attenuators have a weird structure in the first sentence:
"... making literal the elemental gates kineticists possess within their bodies."
Probably meant "making the literal elemental gates that kineticists possess" / "making the elemental gates kineticists possess within their bodies literal"?