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I'm guessing the opt-in bug spoken about upthread hasn't been fixed yet.
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I'm guessing the opt-in bug spoken about upthread hasn't been fixed yet.
I'll be clear when it is. We discuss it weekly.
So we're just a couple weeks away from people starting to receive their PDFs and still mysteries abound! This is definitely the closest to the chest Paizo has played ancestry details in second edition.
At this point, we know 6 of 7 heritages, and almost for sure know the seventh. So the remaining secrets are a pair of ancestries? I have no guess. Have we seen confirmation if they're returning first edition ones or brand new? I know we're getting some brand new with the Mwangi, which they've hyped, so I'm assuming returning favorites.
But I don't know any of those.
It sort of slipped my mind that some people get pdfs early! Here's to hoping someone gets it reeeally early
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So we're just a couple weeks away from people starting to receive their PDFs and still mysteries abound! This is definitely the closest to the chest Paizo has played ancestry details in second edition.
At this point, we know 6 of 7 heritages, and almost for sure know the seventh. So the remaining secrets are a pair of ancestries? I have no guess. Have we seen confirmation if they're returning first edition ones or brand new? I know we're getting some brand new with the Mwangi, which they've hyped, so I'm assuming returning favorites.
But I don't know any of those.
While we have many blogs planned, we won't be releasing the full list until launch day. Obviously it will "leak" out from subscribers and reviewers before launch.
We don't want buzz to peak before people can actually buy the books. It won't even be on that big online retailer for weeks after launch. And we want to give FLGS a piece of the action. The first previews will begin just in time to invite people to subscribe. There will be a build up, but many blogs will post after the product is available. Expect this pattern going forward, until the number tell us to do something different. Paizo evolves, just list our games.
I am actually changing the order of my social media posts so you get a big reveal here first. :)
Enjoy your anticipation and hunt for clues, I know that is half the fun!
So we're just a couple weeks away from people starting to receive their PDFs and still mysteries abound! This is definitely the closest to the chest Paizo has played ancestry details in second edition.
At this point, we know 6 of 7 heritages, and almost for sure know the seventh. So the remaining secrets are a pair of ancestries? I have no guess. Have we seen confirmation if they're returning first edition ones or brand new? I know we're getting some brand new with the Mwangi, which they've hyped, so I'm assuming returning favorites.
But I don't know any of those.
Don't forget that back before the Aphorites were revealed, Luis teased that, "... two of the unrevealed entries have the means to gain a fly speed."
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So we're just a couple weeks away from people starting to receive their PDFs and still mysteries abound! This is definitely the closest to the chest Paizo has played ancestry details in second edition.
At this point, we know 6 of 7 heritages, and almost for sure know the seventh. So the remaining secrets are a pair of ancestries? I have no guess. Have we seen confirmation if they're returning first edition ones or brand new? I know we're getting some brand new with the Mwangi, which they've hyped, so I'm assuming returning favorites.
But I don't know any of those.
While we have many blogs planned, we won't be releasing the full list until launch day. Obviously it will "leak" out from subscribers and reviewers before launch.
We don't want buzz to peak before people can actually buy the books. It won't even be on that big online retailer for weeks after launch. And we want to give FLGS a piece of the action. The first previews will begin just in time to invite people to subscribe. There will be a build up, but many blogs will post after the product is available. Expect this pattern going forward, until the number tell us to do something different. Paizo evolves, just list our games.
I am actually changing the order of my social media posts so you get a big reveal here first. :)
Enjoy your anticipation and hunt for clues, I know that is half the fun!
What? "Leak out from subscribers?"
Who would do such a thing?
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Enjoy your anticipation and hunt for clues, I know that is half the fun!There's a tiny race already known - the Sprites
Do we also happen to get a large race? UwU
Pretty sure they said no to that.
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I've got my fingers crossed for Ghorans and Gathlain. Or at least Ghorans. Leshies are so popular at my tables that other ways to approach and build plant people would be very welcome. Samsaran don't excite me at all, though I could live with Strix.
Really, preferentially, I'd vote for a larger ancestry... Tons of smalls all over this game, and a sad lack of viable brutes! Glancing through 1e race options, I'm seeing wyvarans, nagaji maybe, or even maybe rougarou? I dunno. Frankly a dire lack of real brutish, large ancestries throughout the history of Pathfinder. I'm not talking mechanically Large, just some big ol peoples. Currently it's fleshwarp or bust with the Ancestry Guide.
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We have Lizardfolk and Orcs as well, but yes for this book that seems to be it. I'd love if Rogarou made it in for that reason.
I'd frankly be pretty surprised if Strix aren't in. They're so iconic and are one of the ancestries mentioned in the World Guide that aren't on the release schedule yet.
Right. Maybe it's just my perspective, but humans tend to be kind of the baseline. Except that they're generally the largest ancestry in the game! Orcs and Iruxi can be taller and broader, you're right... But that's it so far. The game feels almost more curved to halflings as the average, especially with the incoming sprites!
I know very little about Strix, but aren't they inherently very winged? I wonder how the game would treat having wings but no realistic fly speed for a number of levels?
I'm not the biggest proponent of humans+animal=ancestry, but they're are a few I'm surprised not to see yet. Wolves seems wildly obvious, shape changed or nah. I'm so keen on a minotaur option. Bear people? I can see why monkey or ape people can be problematic and I'm cool avoiding those. Also could be fun to see some snake people, though I know from a designer perspective that snakes are tricky.
I'm just running my mouth... Really excited for this book, and for the future of the game!
I'm not the biggest proponent of humans+animal=ancestry, but they're are a few I'm surprised not to see yet. Wolves seems wildly obvious, shape changed or nah. I'm so keen on a minotaur option. Bear people? I can see why monkey or ape people can be problematic and I'm cool avoiding those. Also could be fun to see some snake people, though I know from a designer perspective that snakes are tricky.
I imagine we'll get Vanaras at some point, and Charu-Ka. James Jacobs responded to a thread about Snake people (and larger ancestries in general) in the PF2 General forum that I'm sure you saw.
For other animal people, I'm looking forward to Lycanthrope heritages. Plus we're getting Kitsune.
That Strix are winged and have immediate challenges is more of a reason to design them, not less. Much as I despise "power of imagination" as a reason to not put something into pathfinder, it does cover quite a few ancestry options with enough cosmetic modifications. But Strix are harder to cover that way, though I can imagine a modified Tengu doing adequately (swap out the beak for something else, perhaps the Skyborn heritage?).
Yeah.
The Lost Omens line and the rarity tags mean Paizo can easily create and publish all sorts of weird ancestries that they wouldn't have felt comfortable doing in the previous edition. I hope they take advantage of that! Mechanically Large characters? I don't really care as long as we have narratively large ones. Playable serpentfolk? I don't think it's necessary (though I would vote for it if asked).
But blocking problematic things from PFS via rare tags can open them to all the possibilities of allowing players and GMs incredible diversity, monstrosity... Frankly, interesting mechanics overshadowed by terrific narrative hooks and character backgrounds. I hope that's the direction they're going, though I can understand if after this peoples-heavy 2021 they focus their efforts more on other parts of the game.
But for whatever reason, I want nothing more in this game than a playable minotaur. Admittedly, I know as little about minotaurs-on-Golarion lore as I do about what Strix entail being unlikeable harpy-esque winged folks.
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What I'm hoping to see:
Feats allowing a Dhampir to change into a Bat Swarm or a Wolf.
A Beastbrood feat allowing a Tiefling to be descended from a Rakshasa.
A feat for Kitsune born with white fur and pale eyes (who often become gifted oracles).
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Coming in Lost Omens Mwangi Expanse in June!
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Also excited for more lizardfolk feats. If any race deserves some good options it's them!
There is art of Azarketi (Gillmen) shared on Paizo's FB page. Posted yesterday.
Developer
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For those of you want to hear more about Ancestry Guide and the Lost Omens line in general, I have good news for you! I'm going to be chatting with Find the Path Ventures tonight (Feb 2) at 9PM EST/8PM CST/6PM PST. Eleanor and I are also chatting with The Danger Club Podcast tomorrow (Feb 3) at 7PM GMT/1PM EST/12 PM CST/11 AM PST and with Know Direction next Wednesday (Feb 10th) at 9PM EST/8PM CST/6PM PST. Feel free to swing by for any of these to get some more teasers and ask us questions!
For those of you want to hear more about Ancestry Guide and the Lost Omens line in general, I have good news for you! I'm going to be chatting with Find the Path Ventures tonight (Feb 2) at 9PM EST/8PM CST/6PM PST. Eleanor and I are also chatting with The Danger Club Podcast tomorrow (Feb 3) at 7PM GMT/1PM EST/12 PM CST/11 AM PST and with Know Direction next Wednesday (Feb 10th) at 9PM EST/8PM CST/6PM PST. Feel free to swing by for any of these to get some more teasers and ask us questions!
Oh Luis, you just keep on giving :)
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I hope someone can post any teases from those streams! I can never get to watch them
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Luis confirmed that Ganzi and Aphorite are versatile heritages, and that the unrevealed slots are one versatile heritage and one ancestry!
...and that he's working on one of the unrevealed ones, so theorize away.
Oooh. For some reason I had it in my mind that both the unrevealed things were ancestries, not heritages. But one more of each... Interesting. I wonder if each will need a fly speed or if aphorites and ganzi will be able to fly?
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Luis confirmed that Ganzi and Aphorite are versatile heritages, and that the unrevealed slots are one versatile heritage and one ancestry!
...and that he's working on one of the unrevealed ones, so theorize away.
He also confirmed that Kitsune are +Cha +Free, no flaws ability score bonuses; At-Will Shape Change being part of their base ancestry (no feats or heritages required), and one of the heritages allows for Shape Change to also turn you into an actual fox.
Damn, no one was trying to figure out an eighth heritage! I don't even have the slightest guess.
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One ancestry and one heritage? Hmm.
I'm guessing that Ganzi will be able to get a fly speed, which would leave one more ancestry/heritage with access to flight. And there are not that many candidates for heritages among already existing lore that I know of.
Therefore my guesses for the remaining options are Strix and Mortics.
Strix and Skinwalkers is mine, given Luis wrote one of them. Skinwalkers are right up his alley.
Edit: We can also sort of guess that Wyrwoods are not in (someone asked him what he would like to write that he hasn’t yet).
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I think a good candidate for that versatile heritage slot would be whatever they rename the Skinwalkers to be. Then, we could have were-folk of any of the playable ancestries.
Another, far-fetched option might be what if Samsarans have been made to be a heritage since they are reborn and can remember their past lives? I always thought it was a little strange that they were only ever reborn as blue humans and not reborn into other races/ancestries.
You might very well be right about Skinwalkers!
I also considered the possibility of a werecreature heritage, but personally I'd like it to be split into multiple types of werecreatures, like geniekin are separated into five.
I want the option to turn into a shark or a crocodile, not just a wolf!
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You might very well be right about Skinwalkers!
I also considered the possibility of a werecreature heritage, but personally I'd like it to be split into multiple types of werecreatures, like geniekin are separated into five.
I want the option to turn into a shark or a crocodile, not just a wolf!
Honestly the Versatile Heritage + Lineage feat system fits Skinwalkers so well I would assume Skinwalkers were the prototype if I didn’t see the CRB Playtest document with my own two eyeballs.
Recall, base Skinwalkers didn’t have any particular animal shape, they were just generally bestial, but you could pick up a different heritage to get different skill boosts, unarmed attack, and spell-like abilities. I could very easily see the base heritage giving that change shape ability, with Lineage feats making your form more specific to a certain animal and an additional skill boost.
Edit: In fact if they don’t do I’ll homebrew it myself, once I see how the change shape ability should be typed out via the Kitsune ancestry.
Honestly the Versatile Heritage + Lineage feat system fits Skinwalkers so well I would assume Skinwalkers were the prototype if I didn’t see the CRB Playtest document with my own two eyeballs.
Recall, base Skinwalkers didn’t have any particular animal shape, they were just generally bestial, but you could pick up a different heritage to get different skill boosts, unarmed attack, and spell-like abilities. I could very easily see the base heritage giving that change shape ability, with Lineage feats making your form more specific to a certain animal and an additional skill boost.
Edit: In fact if they don’t do I’ll homebrew it myself, once I see how the change shape ability should be typed out via the Kitsune ancestry.
Good point. Lineages would work well here.. I just have a dislike for how they were used with the APG versatile heritages. The fact that you have to choose the lineage feat at level 1 meant that you couldn't pick any of the other level 1 exclusive feats like Darkvision or the tiefling unarmed attacks, which felt really janky to me. Also the benefits of most APG lineage feats felt pretty underwhelming in my opinion.
But you're right that it would work very well for skinwalkers!
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So stoked to know about Kitsune, I figured those would be their ability scores, but I'm excited to see what they can do with the shape changing.
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A few more details I've gleaned from the podcast:
1. Androids have the same Ability Boosts as PF1E and SF (+DEX +INT -CHA).
2. There's gonna be a sprite heritage, forgot the name of it, but will be bat-like with bat wings and such.
3. One of the Fleshwarp heritages was described as being so mechanically augmented as to be similar to the Terminator (so a construct-similar mutation). One of the ancestry feats were described as growing a set of jaws, a third arm with claws, or a piercing tail for an unarmed attack, and being able to switch between them as needed.
4. The Conrasu in the Lost Omens: Mwangi Expanse book were described as constructs, detailing it as an intelligent spark growing a tree body around it. One heritage makes it so the tree body is hard enough where it can act as armor for the Conrasu, for example.
5. One of the remaining two unknowns of this book was written by Luis himself, and he's incredibly excited about the details of this ancestry (but won't spill the beans!)
6. There's a Giant Stag Beetle as an animal companion in The Grand Bazaar. It can be Medium or Large, it's meant to be mounted, and it's support ability sounds like it makes enemies flat-footed to your attacks by grabbing the enemy with its mandibles.
7. TGB will also have both mundane, cheap accessibility items, as well as magic accessibility items with abilities to charge into enemies and whatnot. Mundane items are recommended to be free for new players to GMs in a sidebar, since making people have to pay to be in a wheelchair or wear glasses would suck.
8. No Large ancestries in LOAG or LOME, but there's an ancestry feat... somewhere... that let's you become large in one of the ancestries. Very vague. Very exciting.
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8. No Large ancestries in LOAG or LOME, but there's an ancestry feat... somewhere... that let's you become large in one of the ancestries. Very vague. Very exciting.
But in all seriousness, while that is what I'd like to see , I'm honestly not sure what other possibilities there are for heritages.
Edit: What would people think about Kaimana as the new name for minor weres? Or just Garou of course.
So as to not drown out the thread with my own guess, what other guesses do people have for the new heritage?
I considered Mortics, but I'd assume they would be more like Fleshwarps than Dhampir. If we didn't already know Fetchlings would be an ancestry, I might suggest them as a heritage. I wouldn't expect a shadow Planar scion in this book for that reason, but perhaps an Astral, Ethereal, or First World scion? Or something even more esoteric like Time or Dream?
Yeah seems like Fleshwarps will cover a mortic/wow forsaken type trope as well as some crazy Frankenstein or even cyborg/augment theme which is great
Really hoping for a were creature ancestry as one is most likely Ganzi right?
A planar scion from the esoteric planes would be awesome. They could probably expand on the Aastomoi to fit into a Time or Dream type. Munavri would be cool but they'll probably show up in a Darklands book. Though perhaps they somehow tapped into the Ethereal or something where Caligni went toward Shadow and Obs to survive underground.
The weirder races that came later in PF1 were really interesting and I hope they get brought over and expanded on at some point.
The weirder races that came later in PF1 were really interesting and I hope they get brought over and expanded on at some point.
Seems like that would be in keeping with their goal of "anything you could do in 1st edition you'll be able to do (more or less, I guess) in 2nd".
Which brings a question to mind: are there intelligent species on Golarion that should not be playable as characters?
I've heard tell of this problem with Drizzt; I confess I don't know the details.
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As long as ancestries have rare tags, I think anything should be allowed. Even if a people is somehow unabashedly evil, that doesn't mean evil campaigns aren't a thing. So even the (much argued over) serpentfolk should have the opportunity. Gate them away from PFS, demand players hit certain narrative benchmarks in the actual book, and nothing is unreasonable.
Well, short of abjectly broken things like six armed laser elementals or something.