Rysky the Dark Solarion |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Why am I paying for a service if it's a coin toss that it's even providing what I'm paying for?
As the others on this thread have stated, you are not paying to get it early. In fact, you're not paying anything extra for a subscription at all, you're paying for the Hardcover, same price as everyone else, and you're getting the PDF for free.
It's really disheartening to see all these "If I don't get it early no one should" mindsets.
Stonesnake |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
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Timbo8705 |
What you are paying for is the hardcover book. Even if yours is the last copy to ship, you are getting what you are paying for (the hard copy of the book) and a free bonus (the pdf). On top of that, you are getting the pdf before it can be purchased.
Except others are getting the PDF weeks ahead of time and we're apparently paying the price. That's MY issue. I get that I'm getting the book in hardcover, I get that I'm getting a free copy of the PDF, something that frankly should come with the hardcover copy anyway when purchased from the publisher directly as I am. I have no issue with that. I have an issue with some of the people who pay for the service I am paying for already getting their product when I haven't. If it's an issue with order processing I get that, I'm fine with that, but then don't send out ANY of the PDFs before the last order processes. In an effort of fairness, that seems like the fair thing to do.
Timbo8705 |
Timbo8705 wrote:Why am I paying for a service if it's a coin toss that it's even providing what I'm paying for?As the others on this thread have stated, you are not paying to get it early. In fact, you're not paying anything extra for a subscription at all, you're paying for the Hardcover, same price as everyone else, and you're getting the PDF for free.
It's really disheartening to see all these "If I don't get it early no one should" mindsets.
What's really disheartening is that you don't seem to get that it's pretty messed that you and I are paying the same price for the same product and yet you already have the product (in this case the digital download PDF) and I (as well as quite a few others it seems) do not. If you truly believe the only thing you get with your subscription is the hardcover copy of the book and the free pdf you should have no issue with not having it early since that's not part of what you're paying for.
Timbo8705 |
Maybe we can talk about the book in this thread instead of arguing over the inherent fairness/unfairness of Paizo's shipping and fulfillment process?
(For the record, I think that the system, while imperfect, is as fair as it can be given the constraints of physical reality.)
I would love to discuss the book. Please do go into explicit detail over every square inch of each page cover to cover for me. I ask you to do this since I don't have a copy of the book to be able to comment on the contents myself.
As I don't have the book to discuss the contents I am stuck talking about the aspect of the book that I can discuss, the lack of it.
Rysky the Dark Solarion |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:What's really disheartening is that you don't seem to get that it's pretty messed that you and I are paying the same price for the same product and yet you already have the product (in this case the digital download PDF) and I (as well as quite a few others it seems) do not. If you truly believe the only thing you get with your subscription is the hardcover copy of the book and the free pdf you should have no issue with not having it early since that's not part of what you're paying for.Timbo8705 wrote:Why am I paying for a service if it's a coin toss that it's even providing what I'm paying for?As the others on this thread have stated, you are not paying to get it early. In fact, you're not paying anything extra for a subscription at all, you're paying for the Hardcover, same price as everyone else, and you're getting the PDF for free.
It's really disheartening to see all these "If I don't get it early no one should" mindsets.
I do not have the product yet, in any form, and you are right, I have no problem not getting it early. I'm perfectly fine with others getting it before me.
Luthorne |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Timbo8705 wrote:I do not have the product yet, in any form, and you are right, I have no problem not getting it early. I'm perfectly fine with others getting it before me.Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:What's really disheartening is that you don't seem to get that it's pretty messed that you and I are paying the same price for the same product and yet you already have the product (in this case the digital download PDF) and I (as well as quite a few others it seems) do not. If you truly believe the only thing you get with your subscription is the hardcover copy of the book and the free pdf you should have no issue with not having it early since that's not part of what you're paying for.Timbo8705 wrote:Why am I paying for a service if it's a coin toss that it's even providing what I'm paying for?As the others on this thread have stated, you are not paying to get it early. In fact, you're not paying anything extra for a subscription at all, you're paying for the Hardcover, same price as everyone else, and you're getting the PDF for free.
It's really disheartening to see all these "If I don't get it early no one should" mindsets.
I also have not had my subscription ship yet, and I also think that it's a ridiculous thing to get hung up about. The notion that no one else should ever get it before me seems ridiculous. And also like it would invite the website going down as a large chunk of the subscribers all try to download their product at the same time.
Timbo8705 |
Timbo8705 wrote:I do not have the product yet, in any form, and you are right, I have no problem not getting it early. I'm perfectly fine with others getting it before me.Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:What's really disheartening is that you don't seem to get that it's pretty messed that you and I are paying the same price for the same product and yet you already have the product (in this case the digital download PDF) and I (as well as quite a few others it seems) do not. If you truly believe the only thing you get with your subscription is the hardcover copy of the book and the free pdf you should have no issue with not having it early since that's not part of what you're paying for.Timbo8705 wrote:Why am I paying for a service if it's a coin toss that it's even providing what I'm paying for?As the others on this thread have stated, you are not paying to get it early. In fact, you're not paying anything extra for a subscription at all, you're paying for the Hardcover, same price as everyone else, and you're getting the PDF for free.
It's really disheartening to see all these "If I don't get it early no one should" mindsets.
My mistake, having read one of your previous posts it made it seem like you had the pdf already, I misread. I understand you're not upset by not getting the same product that everyone is paying for at the same time. Great, more power to you. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it, that doesn't make it fair, and that doesn't make it right. People are paying the same price and some of us are getting preferential treatment by getting a boon of having the product earlier when they aren't paying more than anyone else.
If no one else were getting it early I can understand people brushing this sentiment off as some petulant child tantrum screaming "It's mine and I want it now". This isn't, however. This is an irate 30 year old saying "I paid the same price as everyone else, why am I not getting the same treatment?"Timbo8705 |
I also have not had my subscription ship yet, and I also think that it's a ridiculous thing to get hung up about. The notion that no one else should ever get it before me seems ridiculous. And also like it would invite the website going down as a large chunk of the subscribers all try to download their product at the same time.
Large chunks of subscribers can download the product at the same time any time. That's not a good enough reason to give access to some people earlier than others.
Redelia |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The other thing you're missing is that most of us are looking long term. It's not the same people each month who get the pdf's first; I believe they've told us that they purposely randomize the algorithm for what orders to fill first. Some months I get my pdf's near the start, others I get them near the end, and often sometimes in between.
Opsylum |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:Timbo8705 wrote:I do not have the product yet, in any form, and you are right, I have no problem not getting it early. I'm perfectly fine with others getting it before me.Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:What's really disheartening is that you don't seem to get that it's pretty messed that you and I are paying the same price for the same product and yet you already have the product (in this case the digital download PDF) and I (as well as quite a few others it seems) do not. If you truly believe the only thing you get with your subscription is the hardcover copy of the book and the free pdf you should have no issue with not having it early since that's not part of what you're paying for.Timbo8705 wrote:Why am I paying for a service if it's a coin toss that it's even providing what I'm paying for?As the others on this thread have stated, you are not paying to get it early. In fact, you're not paying anything extra for a subscription at all, you're paying for the Hardcover, same price as everyone else, and you're getting the PDF for free.
It's really disheartening to see all these "If I don't get it early no one should" mindsets.
My mistake, having read one of your previous posts it made it seem like you had the pdf already, I misread. I understand you're not upset by not getting the same product that everyone is paying for at the same time. Great, more power to you. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it, that doesn't make it fair, and that doesn't make it right. People are paying the same price and some of us are getting preferential treatment by getting a boon of having the product earlier when they aren't paying more than anyone else.
If no one else were getting it early I can understand people brushing this sentiment off as some petulant child tantrum screaming "It's mine and I want it now". This isn't, however. This is an irate 30 year old saying "I paid the same price as everyone...
That's the thing though, it's not preferential. Shipping orders are randomized each month. You are paying for the same service - to be on a random list in a shipping queue. It's like paying to attend a banquet, and you realize there's a line for the food. Why are there people in line before me even though we are paying the same price? Alternatively, you could have Paizo confirm everyone's orders and then release the pdfs, but that would just mean everyone waits longer, and people would just start complaining they have already paid money, Paizo already has the pdfs - why can't they just have access to it already? I think we've already got the best situation possible here.
Rysky the Dark Solarion |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |
You haven't paid anything yet, otherwise your books would be shipped and you would have access to the PDF. No one is getting preferential treatment, they are getting charged, and thus access to the PDFs, when their books are shipped, to which there is no preferential treatment, it's literally when the label is made and the books are boxed up, there is no rhyme or reason to who gets their books sent out first.
In that way you are getting exactly the same treatment as absolutely everyone else, the moment you charged, you get the PDFs.
People getting it early is nice, but it's not a boon, and it costs me nothing that they get it earlier. It doesn't mean I get mine later, there's absolutely no negative repercussions to me or anyone else that some people get their's earlier.
Edit: ninjaed more eloquently above.
KingOfNinjas |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
This is an irate 30 year old saying "I paid the same price as everyone...
Just a note, but you haven't paid yet. The funds may be authorized, but you aren't charged until the shipping label is printed. You'll get access to the pdf as soon as you've paid for it.
Edit: I really like Opsylum's banquet analogy.
Vexies |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Luthorne wrote:Large chunks of subscribers can download the product at the same time any time. That's not a good enough reason to give access to some people earlier than others.
I also have not had my subscription ship yet, and I also think that it's a ridiculous thing to get hung up about. The notion that no one else should ever get it before me seems ridiculous. And also like it would invite the website going down as a large chunk of the subscribers all try to download their product at the same time.
Seeing as it seems we have to clarify this.. I do not have mine either. I would very much like to have it but that is the way the system works and im fine with that. When the original release hit I got mine very early like the first couple days of shipping this time around im back of the pack and that's ok for me. I get that its just a byproduct of how their system is programed and a probably (I am assuming because I don't work there) also a policy because holding off to batch process all those PDFs until each and every person gets there order processed also has, as others have pointed out, legal and customer service issues all their own.
For instance I dont really want to have to wait, again I dont have mine either, but I like that I get it when it ships and I am ok with the current system. Plenty of others are as well so as a company if the ONLY issue was perceived value and customer service they are still going to aggravate a portion of their customer base. Add to this the fact that their are probably legal issues as well as opening them up to all sorts of headaches of having to create a whole new system to process these orders and insure that indeed each and every order that is getting a PDF was shipped probably makes it a not cost effective thing for them to do.
Its a perk not something we are entitled to. Their are plenty of other ways to purchase their products and no service they offer is going to completely satisfy everyone. You have to do what makes most sense for you.
Timbo8705 |
I understand there's a large demand for this product, there's not 2 weeks worth of back subscriptions demand. If they're going to wait till they can send the book they might have to wait till November, does that mean I'll have wait till November? If you're not paying to get it earlier than anyone else at anytime no mater the "random order" your processed in, than you should have no problem waiting till a finite date to get your copy.
It's nice that I haven't been charged yet for a product I don't have. It's nice that they say they randomize the order in which they process so the same people aren't last to get it every time. It doesn't negate the point that they shouldn't be giving out the product when everyone who pays the same amount hasn't had the opportunity.
You want to relate it to a food line. We're not all in a food line. We are the subscribers, the people who paid to go through the line first. Then comes the online preorders, then comes the direct retail order, then comes the late orders.
Them having a large quantity of orders to place doesn't mean that some people should get it earlier. That is a BOON even if you don't believe it is. Someone got the product that we are all paying for two weeks earlier than the rest of us.
Alchemaic |
Somewhat unrelated to the above discussion, but I really wish the book containing the actual encounters for the game had been published alongside the CRB instead of 2 months down the line. I guess the Pathfinder CRB did the same thing, but at least then you could use the existing 3.5 monsters without having to put them through a whole conversion process.
Redelia |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
You want to relate it to a food line. We're not all in a food line. We are the subscribers, the people who paid to go through the line first. Then comes the online preorders, then comes the direct retail order, then comes the late orders.
By your analogy, this is a huge banquet. The subscribers are those with 'early admission tickets.' They let everyone with those tickets in first. There is still going to be a line among those people.
Timbo8705 |
Seeing as it seems we have to clarify this.. I do not have mine either. I would very much like to have it but that is the way the system works and im fine with that. When the original release hit I got mine very early like the first couple days of shipping this time around im back of the pack and that's ok for me. I get that its just a byproduct of how their system is programed and a probably (I am assuming because I don't work there) also a policy because holding off to batch process all those PDFs until each and every person gets there order processed also has, as others have pointed out, legal and customer service issues all their own.
For instance I dont really want to have to wait, again I dont have mine either, but I like that I get it when it ships and I am ok with the current system. Plenty of others are as well so as a company if the ONLY issue was perceived value and customer service they are still going to aggravate a portion of their customer base. Add to this the fact that their are probably legal issues as well as opening them up to all sorts of headaches of having to create a whole new system to process these orders and insure that indeed each and every order that is getting a PDF was shipped probably makes it a not cost effective thing for them to do.
Its a perk not something we are entitled to. Their are plenty of other ways to purchase their products and no service they offer is going to completely satisfy everyone. You have to do what...
Here's the thing, the PDF advertises it launches on the 18th. There is no legal action you can take against the company unless you pay for it and the 18th comes around you still don't have it. As long as they make it available by that day they are covered in all legal aspects. You can process a payment a month in advance, but you don't have to deliver the product until it's advertised. If they had said all subscribers will get the PDF by the 13th, but orders will process starting the 28th then it'd be fine. The way they are handling it, however, is the problem.
Even better they can charge the cover price of the book now, give access to the PDF with the understanding that the physical copy will be shipped at the earliest possible time. There are several ways better to handle this situation than what they are doing.
Timbo8705 |
Somewhat unrelated to the above discussion, but I really wish the book containing the actual encounters for the game had been published alongside the CRB instead of 2 months down the line. I guess the Pathfinder CRB did the same thing, but at least then you could use the existing 3.5 monsters without having to put them through a whole conversion process.
Honestly this was almost what put me off from buying Starfinder at all. The idea that in today's gaming world you can release a "core rulebook" with pages and pages of splat about a campaign setting (which is still coming out in a book later anyway) but have nothing as far as encounters, npcs, monsters, or anything was too much. I spent several hours making npcs of the classes for levels 3, 5, and 7 just to have some base line until I found the free download with single monsters in WIDE CR range gaps.
As a DM I nearly always build my own setting, even with Starfinder I have done, and so the splat did nothing but take up paper and ink for me. Monsters would have added something. Well, monsters besides a CR 20 Goblin I should say.
Timbo8705 |
Timbo8705 wrote:By your analogy, this is a huge banquet. The subscribers are those with 'early admission tickets.' They let everyone with those tickets in first. There is still going to be a line among those people.
You want to relate it to a food line. We're not all in a food line. We are the subscribers, the people who paid to go through the line first. Then comes the online preorders, then comes the direct retail order, then comes the late orders.
It actually wasn't analogy, it was from a previous post. Here's the problem, we're not at a banquet. We're talking about a company that is taking money for a product and processing orders in a way that gives the product to people early for no reason. If they say the book won't ship until the 18th, but subscribers get the PDF unlocked on the 13th you can still charge the subscription price without giving early access to anyone.
Rysky the Dark Solarion |
Redelia wrote:It actually wasn't analogy, it was from a previous post. Here's the problem, we're not at a banquet. We're talking about a company that is taking money for a product and processing orders in a way that gives the product to people early for no reason. If they say the book won't ship until the 18th, but subscribers get the PDF unlocked on the 13th you can still charge the subscription price without giving early access to anyone.Timbo8705 wrote:By your analogy, this is a huge banquet. The subscribers are those with 'early admission tickets.' They let everyone with those tickets in first. There is still going to be a line among those people.
You want to relate it to a food line. We're not all in a food line. We are the subscribers, the people who paid to go through the line first. Then comes the online preorders, then comes the direct retail order, then comes the late orders.
Except Paizo is not doing that. You are charged and get your PDFS when your books are shipped, the same as absolutely everyone else.
KingOfAnything |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Redelia wrote:It actually wasn't analogy, it was from a previous post. Here's the problem, we're not at a banquet. We're talking about a company that is taking money for a product and processing orders in a way that gives the product to people early for no reason. If they say the book won't ship until the 18th, but subscribers get the PDF unlocked on the 13th you can still charge the subscription price without giving early access to anyone.Timbo8705 wrote:By your analogy, this is a huge banquet. The subscribers are those with 'early admission tickets.' They let everyone with those tickets in first. There is still going to be a line among those people.
You want to relate it to a food line. We're not all in a food line. We are the subscribers, the people who paid to go through the line first. Then comes the online preorders, then comes the direct retail order, then comes the late orders.
Just because you don't know the reason, doesn't mean there isn't one. If you have a problem, make a thread in the Customer Service forum. Otherwise, accept that there is a line and everyone has their place in it. Next month, you might get an earlier spot in the line.
Herald |
11 people marked this as a favorite. |
At this point I would like to just cheer on the folks at the warehouse getting shipments out. There are a lot of us getting products ordered and their more than likely breaking their backs trying to get it out the door to all the various shippers that deliver it to all of us.
So tot he folks in Customer Service, the Warehouse staff and all the fine folks who staff the Web Store, keep up the good work.
Sailor Palidor |
Chris Lambertz Community & Digital Content Director |
12 people marked this as a favorite. |
Removed a couple posts referencing illegal downloads, as well as a baiting/personally abusive post. Product discussion threads need to be focused on the specific product they are attached to. If you have feedback about a specific subscription, you can post it to the discussion thread attached to that particular subscription. If you have feedback about our fulfillment or subscription order process, you can provide that to Customer Service in their own subforum or by sending it to customer.service@paizo.com.
For those who are asking about our subscription process, you may find this FAQ section helpful.