Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary 6 (PFRPG)

Love all the feedback so far, but I'd love it EVEN MORE if folks did reviews for the book. Traditional wisdom in the industry is that with each monster book published they're less and less "useful" or whatever, and one of my goals with Bestiary 6 was to try to show that there's essentially an endless stream of monster potentials to keep a line going forever.

So, if you do love the book, please drop a review about it. For that matter, if you hate the book, drop a review too; just make sure to explain (preferably in a non accusatory way) what disappointed you about the book so we can keep that in mind as a potential way to improve future books.

Think I will wait till I'm finished.

I've only made it through the Gs as yet, but I can't say I'm terribly impressed by most of what I've seen so far.

Half the monsters are over CR 20, which means they will likely never see use at most tables, which is a crying shame, because they are some of the only ones with really interesting abilities and rules. Many of the other monsters seem dramatically uninspired as well. Fire whales; whales that swim in lava? That's...not terribly creative. New lycanthropes, but instead of animals, they're insects? Really?

More terrain-based giants (some of which appear in the same environs as other terrain-based giants), more alignment-based outsiders (daemons, demons, devils, etc.). A whole heck of a lot of monsters that had already been printed in other Paizo sources. These are all things we have plenty of already! We really don't need more of the same! Give us something new and interesting for God's sake!

I'm hoping the second half will make up for it with something truly inspired, but right now, it just strikes me as...

...well, boring.

This is the first Bestiary from Paizo that really does make me believe they are running out of ideas.

But perhaps I'm a bit premature. Will continue reading.

I've been waiting for official insect lycanthropes for a long time. And I pretty much never mind more outsiders from the various subtypes. That's just me, though.

I've only made it through the Gs, but I can't say I'm terribly impressed by most of what I've seen so far.

Half the monsters are over CR 20, which means they will likely never see use, which is a crying shame, because they are some of the only ones with really interesting abilities and rules. Many of the other monsters seem dramatically uninspired as well.

More terrain-based giants (some of which appear in the same environs as other terrain-based giants), more alignment-based outsiders (daemons, demons, devils, etc.). A whole heck of a lot of monsters that had already been printed in other Paizo sources. These are all things we have plenty of already! We don't need more of the same! Give us something new and interesting for God's sake!

Fire whales? Whales that swim in lava. That's...not creative. New lycanthropes, but instead of animals, they're insects? Really?

I'm hoping the second half will make up for it with something truly inspired, but right now, it just strikes me as...

...well, boring.

This is the first Bestiary from Paizo that really does make me believe they are running out of ideas.

I mean...the product description...and almost all the promos so far, have basically said the theme of the Bestiary was going to be High CR threats, either in the form of other major evil demigods or creating high level threats in existing categories short of them (plants, oozes, etc). If you don't like the CR range, it's not like it should be a surprised or you weren't warned....

The only promos I recall were planar dragons and corruption oozes through the blog.

Complaining that the creatures are over CR 20 is not a valid complaint. Some GM's are looking for just that.

I've been waiting for official insect lycanthropes for a long time. And I pretty much never mind more outsiders from the various subtypes. That's just me, though.

Hmmm... that got me thinking...

Do entothrope have skinwalkers as well?

Complaining that the creatures are over CR 20 is not a valid complaint. Some GM's are looking for just that.

Furthermore, we mustn't see high-level creatures are monsters to take down all the time. Some can be used as patrons and some others could be used as important NPCs.

The stats are there if the PCs try something foolish XD

Complaining that the creatures are over CR 20 is not a valid complaint. Some GM's are looking for just that.

How is that not a valid complaint? I grant you that some GMs would be looking for that kind of thing, but they are likely in the minority. Most groups simply never make it to level 20. There simply isn't as much need for CR 21-30s as there is for CR 1-10s.

I'm not complaining that they are there (I find most of them to be quite interesting and very well put togther), just the apparant ratio.

A book that is half CR 21+ is half useless to the vast majority of GMs out there.

Brother Fen wrote:

Complaining that the creatures are over CR 20 is not a valid complaint. Some GM's are looking for just that.

How is that not a valid complaint? I grant you that some GMs would be looking for that kind of thing, but they are likely in the minority. Most groups simply never make it to level 20. There simply isn't as much need for CR 21-30s as there is for CR 1-10s.

I'm not complaining that they are there (I find most of them to be quite interesting and very well put togther), just the apparant ratio.

A book that is half CR 21+ is half useless to the vast majority of GMs out there.

Fortunately, I think only...16-17% are CR 21+?

Ravingdork wrote:

Brother Fen wrote:

Complaining that the creatures are over CR 20 is not a valid complaint. Some GM's are looking for just that.

How is that not a valid complaint? I grant you that some GMs would be looking for that kind of thing, but they are likely in the minority. Most groups simply never make it to level 20. There simply isn't as much need for CR 21-30s as there is for CR 1-10s.

I'm not complaining that they are there (I find most of them to be quite interesting and very well put togther), just the apparant ratio.

A book that is half CR 21+ is half useless to the vast majority of GMs out there.

Fortunately, I think only...16-17% are CR 21+?

I hope so. It's likely that the first half of the book is merely front-loaded with them, creating the impression that they are nearly every other entry.

My experience with Bestiaries is that the A-D section is usually frontloaded with outsiders. Especially A and D themselves.

A book that is half CR 21+ is half useless to the vast majority of GMs out there.

Judging from the reception this book's gained so far, that sounds like baseless hyperbole.

It's fine if the book isn't the book you wanted, but that doesn't mean it's not a successful book that a lot of other people enjoy.

We've never been quiet about the book's content skewing higher CR, in any event.

It's almost like Daemons, Demons, Devils, Angels, Archons, Empyreal Lords, Azatas, Archedevils, etc all start in the first five letters of the alphabet and skew the numbers a bit. :P

In either case, the amount of CR20+ monsters in this book has made one of my GMs immensely happy, since his main bit of work was custom making almost every monster. With this, he doesn't have to do everything by hand. In particular, he was impressed by the Elder Wyrm and glad he can run a monster without having to stack a bunch of templates onto it.

James Jacobs wrote:

Love all the feedback so far, but I'd love it EVEN MORE if folks did reviews for the book. Traditional wisdom in the industry is that with each monster book published they're less and less "useful" or whatever, and one of my goals with Bestiary 6 was to try to show that there's essentially an endless stream of monster potentials to keep a line going forever.

So, if you do love the book, please drop a review about it. For that matter, if you hate the book, drop a review too; just make sure to explain (preferably in a non accusatory way) what disappointed you about the book so we can keep that in mind as a potential way to improve future books.

Think I will wait till I'm finished.

I've only made it through the Gs as yet, but I can't say I'm terribly impressed by most of what I've seen so far.

Half the monsters are over CR 20, which means they will likely never see use at most tables, which is a crying shame, because they are some of the only ones with really interesting abilities and rules. Many of the other monsters seem dramatically uninspired as well. Fire whales; whales that swim in lava? That's...not terribly creative. New lycanthropes, but instead of animals, they're insects? Really?

More terrain-based giants (some of which appear in the same environs as other terrain-based giants), more alignment-based outsiders (daemons, demons, devils, etc.). A whole heck of a lot of monsters that had already been printed in other Paizo sources. These are all things we have plenty of already! We really don't need more of the same! Give us something new and interesting for God's sake!

I'm hoping the second half will make up for it with something truly inspired, but right now, it just strikes me as...

...well, boring.

This is the first Bestiary from Paizo that really does make me believe they are running out of ideas.

But perhaps I'm a bit premature. Will continue reading.

I tend toward the opposite view, eagerly eyeing demigods like action figures. However, your argument is a practical and valid one: will we ever use demigods?

Personally, I think the problem in this case is that campaigns don't get high level often enough, which I believe is most likely due to the rules getting strained at high levels. It becomes less about how well you roll and more about how many modifiers you have.

I run high level games, and my setting is one that is planar in nature. I'm really happy to hear that there are tonnes of outsiders, even the reprint ones since I don't get AP's or campaign setting books, so they may as well be new to me.

This bestiary will probably be more useful than the last two combined for me (and I rather enjoyed both).

And for those interested, alignments...

I just finished perusing my copy, and I thought it was a beautiful read. So evocative and fun. There's even a monster in here that I'm pretty certain needs to be an end boss for my Athenian home game. (She's got six snakes and none of them have any f$#@s to give to fighters looking to disrupt an oracle's spellcasting!)

Nice job, Bestiary 6 team! The series continues to stay strong and relevant!

(Also, the Krampus's full stat block is AMAZING. I think I might write a whole Third-Party adventure around that one.)

I run high level games, and my setting is one that is planar in nature. I'm really happy to hear that there are tonnes of outsiders, even the reprint ones since I don't get AP's or campaign setting books, so they may as well be new to me.

This bestiary will probably be more useful than the last two combined for me (and I rather enjoyed both).

Yeah...Sakhils, Qlippoth, and Proteans are especially well represented in this Bestiary, which was urgently needed since the former are new while the latter two haven't reappeared in a hardcover since B2 I think.

Milo v3 wrote:

I run high level games, and my setting is one that is planar in nature. I'm really happy to hear that there are tonnes of outsiders, even the reprint ones since I don't get AP's or campaign setting books, so they may as well be new to me.

This bestiary will probably be more useful than the last two combined for me (and I rather enjoyed both).

Yeah...Sakhils, Qlippoth, and Proteans are especially well represented in this Bestiary, which was urgently needed since the former are new while the latter two haven't reappeared in a hardcover since B2 I think.

Yup. My Planescape players are going to hate this book. Me? Not so much.

What new sahkils did we get in B6?

And

And it only gets better from there.

As for sakhils, my search for them turned up nothing.

The three new sahkil are:

The three new sahkil are:

** spoiler omitted **

Ooh, very nice concepts.

'Nice', meaning alarming, of course.

The Ximtal is a particularly frightening CR 17. Bards and rogues everywhere shudder in fear of these things and their ability to "isolate" victims.

Now I know why I failed to find them -- I have to read more carefully.

Nasty bugs they are.

Having gotten the chance to do my initial look-throughs, here are my favorites from this bestiary:

1. Blights - The new ooze group is a home-run on my end. They're a cool new creature group that lets a traditionally-underused creature type have some time in the spotlight.
2. Mountain Giant - This thing is freaky in an excellent way. I heartily approve of the sneaky, slasher-ish giant that other giants fear as legend.
3. Archdevils - I like getting stats for assorted demigods, and the archdevils are one of my favorite groups. The little touches like Barbatos not being a Devil help seal the deal on them.
4. Oblivion - This thing is a powerful, ominous negative-plane-based creature (which I've been looking for more of), and it's an ooze to boot.
5. Quintessence Golem - My favorite of the new golems, both in art and thematics.
6. Whisperer - A strong fae that comes with creepy thematics and gives a being-type to create environments that are eerie and alien, but not aberrant and against-nature.
7. Mosslord - I like that we're getting some options for dangerous plant villains. This one is my favorite of the set.
8. Sakhil - We've got another strong, creepy showing from the Sakhil.
9. Viridium Golem - Another cool new golem, with the toxic theme being an interesting space for the construct.
10. Entothropes - It's good to finally have an official were-vermin.

Runners up, in no particular order:
The new Kaiju, The Olethros Psychopomp, the Green Man, the Horsemen, the Qlippoth and Qlippoth Lords, and the Yaddithian.

I also put forth a general statement of support for the addition of prehistoric creatures and sea creatures, even if they aren't the most individually exciting bestiary entries. The slow build of them over time is creating a strong base of animals to pull from. Ditto for the slow conversion-over of all the 3.5 stuff that hasn't previously been updated to the PFRPG yet, like the Cutlass Spider.

James Jacobs wrote:

Love all the feedback so far, but I'd love it EVEN MORE if folks did reviews for the book. Traditional wisdom in the industry is that with each monster book published they're less and less "useful" or whatever, and one of my goals with Bestiary 6 was to try to show that there's essentially an endless stream of monster potentials to keep a line going forever.

So, if you do love the book, please drop a review about it. For that matter, if you hate the book, drop a review too; just make sure to explain (preferably in a non accusatory way) what disappointed you about the book so we can keep that in mind as a potential way to improve future books.

Think I will wait till I'm finished.

I've only made it through the Gs as yet, but I can't say I'm terribly impressed by most of what I've seen so far.

Half the monsters are over CR 20, which means they will likely never see use at most tables, which is a crying shame, because they are some of the only ones with really interesting abilities and rules. Many of the other monsters seem dramatically uninspired as well. Fire whales; whales that swim in lava? That's...not terribly creative. New lycanthropes, but instead of animals, they're insects? Really?

More terrain-based giants (some of which appear in the same environs as other terrain-based giants), more alignment-based outsiders (daemons, demons, devils, etc.). A whole heck of a lot of monsters that had already been printed in other Paizo sources. These are all things we have plenty of already! We really don't need more of the same! Give us something new and interesting for God's sake!

I'm hoping the second half will make up for it with something truly inspired, but right now, it just strikes me as...

...well, boring.

This is the first Bestiary from Paizo that really does make me believe they are running out of ideas.

But perhaps I'm a bit premature. Will continue reading.

1) No. Not even close to half of the monsters are above CR 20.

2) We have 5 books to support low-level campaigns. And much more on other books outside the Bestiaries.

3) Just because the monsters aren't interesting to you doesn't mean they aren't to others. I guess you don't read the boards, as you would certainly see the love this book and the monsters in it are getting.

4) This book was pretty much announced as the book of legendary/powerful monsters. It's there right at the beginning of the description. It's a book meant to support high level play. It's an innovative book, as there are 5 others meant for traditional games. Once again, I suppose you are not actively following the boards to know more about the product you just bought...

5) Paizo running out of ideas? XD Interesting...

I really wish people wouldn't give product reviews until the street release date:(

...

Yeah Rysky saying the book is awesome before I've had a chance to see it. Your only making me want it more and there is really nothing I can do to get it to me faster.

You could subscribe? :3

You and your logic. -_-

I really wish people wouldn't give product reviews until the street release date:(

Step aside folks, I'll bite this - why?

Dragon78 wrote:

I really wish people wouldn't give product reviews until the street release date:(

Step aside folks, I'll bite this - why?

Yay toothy bag!

I really wish people wouldn't give product reviews until the street release date:(

When the creative director asks people to write reviews to tell them what they like (and don't like) about a book, reviews will be written.

They have an email address and a phone number for you to address any concerns you may have about review submissions. :-)

Of course, you could always subscribe yourself and get an early copy to review. :-)

You could subscribe? :3

I would do it if there were a PDF only subscription. Given the country I live in I don't think I can afford to have the physical books shipped to me

Rysky wrote:

You could subscribe? :3

I would do it if there were a PDF only subscription. Given the country I live in I don't think I can afford to have the physical books shipped to me

It's still costly but if you just want the PDF early you can ask to have the physical books donated instead of shipped to you I believe. I could be wrong though.

Seconding "PDF subscription would be nice."

post PDF release I don't have a problem. It's when people start posting reviews before even then...

Hmm, I would have thought the sooner the reviews go up, the better...at least as long as the reviewers actually have a copy of the product they're reviewing!

I did do my review after I had gotten my PDF.

I see no problem with reviews from those who already have their copies. Indeed, the sooner we get to know the quality of the book, the better.

Yeah, I only get annoyed when something pops up when it's clear there's no way they'd actually have the book.

post PDF release I don't have a problem. It's when people start posting reviews before even then...

I take it the complaint is about reviews that come up before even subscribers get their copies, and almost certainly aren't based on the content of the product?...

(For example, I believe someone posted a three star review (with no descriptive text) of Assault on Longshadow almost a month before it's release date.)

EDIT: In all fairness, given the lack of descriptive text, it's reasonably likely that the review of Assault on Longshadow was posted by mistake.

I actually asked the reviewer about that. They were trying to review the second adventure and when they realized they were on the third instead they couldn't figure out how to delete the review.

So just a "whoops" there.

MMCJawa wrote:

post PDF release I don't have a problem. It's when people start posting reviews before even then...

I take it the complaint is about reviews that come up before even subscribers get their copies, and almost certainly aren't based on the content of the product?...

(For example, I believe someone posted a three star review (with no descriptive text) of Assault on Longshadow almost a month before it's release date.)

EDIT: In all fairness, given the lack of descriptive text, it's reasonably likely that the review of Assault on Longshadow was posted by mistake.

An early review could come from a reviewer who was provided a copy ahead of release - that's how come you get zero-day reviews, after all. Whether such review breaks or does not break any NDAs when posted too early is a whole different issue :)

And yeah, I also think the AoL review is a mis-click :)

I DO subscribe, and still don't have the PDF. :(

Plus, I was a contributor to this book, and am very very eager to both see the finished product AND hear what people think about it.

So, it's bittersweet, hearing all the chatter about it, but still waiting to see it myself. I'm living vicariously through Rysky right now..... ;-)

And thanks to Lord Gadigan for his general statement of support on the addition of more sea creatures. A lot of my vermin entries were those.

Thank you for contributing, Tim!

And glad to be of service!

I did do my review after I had gotten my PDF.

As did I.