Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary 6 (PFRPG)

Is it just me or does this Bestiary feel like the 'Horror Monsters' one? Ranging from real-world mythical critters like the Llorona and Yurei to literary ones like the Whisperer and Unrisen, and the all-new original ones (that Lovelorn -- yikes!), this one seems very horror-heavy.

I'm not complaining, I'm delighted with it. I just wonder if the designers were still excited over Horror Adventures when they made these monsters.

No surprise into seeing lots of horror themed monsters in this particular bestiary. Right, Mr. Jacobs? ;D

In fact, I didn't truncate Empyreal Lord intelligence scores for copyfitting. I have a feeling that no matter WHAT number we gave them, though, someone would think it was too high or too low, so we went with what we went with. If that seems weird to you, change it in your game, I guess.

That said, their Intelligence scores seem about right to me, compared to other demigods and considering the fact that none of the three empyreal lords in Bestiary 6 are demigods of intellectual concepts.

The reason I haven't been squeeing over Arshea's stats is because I've been too busy ogling them. ^_^

Also, truncating ability scores for copyfitting or (especially) balance makes sense to me.

Though "they're not demigods of intellectual concepts" doesn't make hold as an argument when there are other non-intellectual demigods with Int 30+.

But enough contention for now, on to the obligatory post-purchase observations. But first...

-inhale-

THANK YOU, MARK!

-deep breath-

Now on to the reason why.

I'm getting the impression that Arshea is very much meant to accompany PCs. ^_^

... New Zealand is tropical.

NZ is distinctly outside the tropics. In the Northland region it can be classified as subtropical in the summer, but, for example Christchurch international airport is the staging point for resupplying the basea in Antarctica.

I mean, I'd like to live somewhere tropical, but this ain't it :)

Rysky wrote:

... New Zealand is tropical.

NZ is distinctly outside the tropics. In the Northland region it can be classified as subtropical in the summer, but, for example Christchurch international airport is the staging point for resupplying the basea in Antarctica.

I mean, I'd like to live somewhere tropical, but this ain't it :)

Hmm, I've bee lied to this whole time, I iz NOT amused!

Sayt wrote:

Rysky wrote:

... New Zealand is tropical.

NZ is distinctly outside the tropics. In the Northland region it can be classified as subtropical in the summer, but, for example Christchurch international airport is the staging point for resupplying the basea in Antarctica.

I mean, I'd like to live somewhere tropical, but this ain't it :)

Hmm, I've bee lied to this whole time, I iz NOT amused!

Well to be fair, its well known fact(or maybe not, I'm not sure about that how well its known outside of jokes about power rangers..) that most movies and kids shows are filmed there nowadays :D Like you wouldn't call scenery in Lord of the Rings movies tropical

Rysky wrote:

Sayt wrote:

Rysky wrote:

... New Zealand is tropical.

NZ is distinctly outside the tropics. In the Northland region it can be classified as subtropical in the summer, but, for example Christchurch international airport is the staging point for resupplying the basea in Antarctica.

I mean, I'd like to live somewhere tropical, but this ain't it :)

Hmm, I've bee lied to this whole time, I iz NOT amused!

Well to be fair, its well known fact(or maybe not, I'm not sure about that how well its known outside of jokes about power rangers..) that most movies and kids shows are filmed there nowadays :D Like you wouldn't call scenery in Lord of the Rings movies tropical

I knew that, but I also knew it has a very varied landscape.

Oh hey, Trailgaunt from one of pathfinder comics bonus sections got into this book : D Nice, I was sad about how most people miss that monster's existence since they don't buy the comics for bonus rpg stuff

(though I guess its slightly different since comic book version got bonuses vs Varisians while this one gets bonuses vs all sorts of travelers .-.)

I find the idea of "Int in the 20's" is dumb a rather strange one...

You don't have to be Einstein to see it's relative: Good demigods are consistently dumber than evil demigods. (And lots of other high CR creatures.) A lot of them, of all alignments, are also pretty dumb compared to what mid-level humanoid characters can do without much trouble.

An 8th level wizard with an 18 Int (let's not even maximize!), +2 level upgrades, and a +2 headband is almost as smart as Ragathiel (and pretty close to a lot of the other bruiser types) and significantly smarter than Vildeis, who is on par with the smartest kid in a good high school's advanced calculus class.

The bigger problem is that demigods in general maybe aren't smart enough given their capabilities. The mechanism of how Commune and Contact Other Plane work isn't ever made clear, but it's distinctly odd that semi-omniscient creatures who have survived for thousands (sometimes millions/billions) of years of planar conflict and intrigue are this relatively dim.

A lot of this (on the physical comparison side, too) would be helped by adding a flat +11 across the board for wishes, belts and headbands, but that would screw up the CR calculations.

Anyway, great book, I love the demigod combat abilities.

Well remember that intelligence isn't the only mental stat, wisdom plays a huge part on survivability and the ability to make "smart" decisions.

Or it could just be that that good Empyreal Lords are not under the brutal pressures of natural selection that most demon lords and similar evil demigods are, what with all the backstabbing and such.

If a good demigod fails a knowledge check, they have allies they can trust to help them out (and for free).

Anyway, love having stats for the horsemen! Also nice to see why the daemons haven't been mopped up despite their huge shortage of heavy-hitters compared to demons and devils (fewer demigods and no deities)- the horsemen are killed off periodically (except Charon), but the immediate promotion system means that doesn't accomplish much. Interesting that Charon's CR would hit a record-setting 31 if one of the others died.

If a good demigod fails a knowledge check, they have allies they can trust to help them out (and for free).

Anyway, love having stats for the horsemen! Also nice to see why the daemons haven't been mopped up despite their huge shortage of heavy-hitters compared to demons and devils (fewer demigods and no deities)- the horsemen are killed off periodically (except Charon), but the immediate promotion system means that doesn't accomplish much. Interesting that Charon's CR would hit a record-setting 31 if one of the others died.

I think Charon hit the 30 cap a long time ago and doesn't improve. If he started at 27 and it was possible for him to hit 31 that would mean no more than three other Horsepersons have died. I'm pretty sure it's been more than that.

The intent seems to be if they keep knocking off the low guy on the totem pole the other three can go curb stomp someone once they all hit CR 30. In practice since Charon is effectively unkillable with his Styx regeneration ability it means 2/3 get upgrades whenever one gets killed.

Is it just me or does this Bestiary feel like the 'Horror Monsters' one? Ranging from real-world mythical critters like the Llorona and Yurei to literary ones like the Whisperer and Unrisen, and the all-new original ones (that Lovelorn -- yikes!), this one seems very horror-heavy.

I'm not complaining, I'm delighted with it. I just wonder if the designers were still excited over Horror Adventures when they made these monsters.

Certainly a lot of creatures that fill a similar niche (fear-based abilities seem to be a recurring theme, for example). A bit more variety would have been desirable.

I like the banelight. Now I want to use a banelight bard that abducts people so it has an audience for its light show.

I'm happy that the mezlan was included (I realize that it's a reprint, but I wasn't aware of it until now). While its abilities are fairly generic, the background lends itself to great NPCs (a centuries-old shapechanger with memory loss and multiple personality disorder--what's not to like?).

QuidEst wrote:

If a good demigod fails a knowledge check, they have allies they can trust to help them out (and for free).

Anyway, love having stats for the horsemen! Also nice to see why the daemons haven't been mopped up despite their huge shortage of heavy-hitters compared to demons and devils (fewer demigods and no deities)- the horsemen are killed off periodically (except Charon), but the immediate promotion system means that doesn't accomplish much. Interesting that Charon's CR would hit a record-setting 31 if one of the others died.

I think Charon hit the 30 cap a long time ago and doesn't improve. If he started at 27 and it was possible for him to hit 31 that would mean no more than three other Horsepersons have died. I'm pretty sure it's been more than that.

The intent seems to be if they keep knocking off the low guy on the totem pole the other three can go curb stomp someone once they all hit CR 30. In practice since Charon is effectively unkillable with his Styx regeneration ability it means 2/3 get upgrades whenever one gets killed.

I'm not sure if the horsemen were ever a group of four CR 30 daemons, but I'm sure Charon has been around since the fist generation, and I suppose he was CR 30 since time immemorial.

I suppose killing a horsemen will not promote the already stronger horsemen. That doesn't make any sense.

- Killing Trelmarixian will not promote the other 3, but it would promote a Daemon Harbinger to the rank of Horsemen.

- Killing Szuriel would promote Trelmarixian, as well as killing Charon would actually promote all the other 3.

That's how I suppose it works. Does it make sense? I don't have the book yet, so I'm only guessing here... XD

The book says that the others are bumped up in CR. No exception made for higher rank or a CR 30 cap. Doesn't really matter much- if horsemen are getting killed, the GM is pretty heavily involved in stuff anyway and can work it out.

If slain again within 1 year or if killed by unusual methods (such as by a true deity, an artifact created for this purpose, or another Horseman), a Horseman is slain forever. When this occurs, the CRs of the three remaining Horsemen immediately increase by 1 (typically via gaining a few Hit Dice and perhaps increasing some ability scores by 2 to 4 points), while an entirely new Horseman ascends to the vacant role as a CR 27 demigod with its own unique abilities.

Book of the Damned, Volume III, lists some of the dead Horsepersons, but.

Though hardly an exhaustive list, given the infinite scale of time in the Great Beyond, a description of some of the more noteworthy entities to claim the title of Horseman follows.

One famine, three pestilence, and two war horsemen are mentioned. There are more not listed, so either Charon started out at a really low CR and coincidentally just hit CR 30 the last time one died, or the the CR 30 cap applies and they just didn't bother including it in the above rule.

That said, Charon is especially tough for a CR30 with Stygian Bond and Reach of the Styx making him really hard to kill. And I originally thought he was missing his third 9th (rarely 8th) level 1/day SLA, until I realized he has Wail of the Banshee 3/day. He's not downgraded by losing a SLA, he's upgraded by getting more uses per day.

B6 wrote:

If slain again within 1 year or if killed by unusual methods (such as by a true deity, an artifact created for this purpose, or another Horseman), a Horseman is slain forever. When this occurs, the CRs of the three remaining Horsemen immediately increase by 1 (typically via gaining a few Hit Dice and perhaps increasing some ability scores by 2 to 4 points), while an entirely new Horseman ascends to the vacant role as a CR 27 demigod with its own unique abilities.

Book of the Damned, Volume III, lists some of the dead Horsepersons, but.

BOTD wrote:

Though hardly an exhaustive list, given the infinite scale of time in the Great Beyond, a description of some of the more noteworthy entities to claim the title of Horseman follows.

One famine, three pestilence, and two war horsemen are mentioned. There are more not listed, so either Charon started out at a really low CR and coincidentally just hit CR 30 the last time one died, or the the CR 30 cap applies and they just didn't bother including it in the above rule.

Thanks for sharing Plausible!

At least now I'm certain that killing them isn't a good idea... The others will merely get stronger and the next one will simple rise in rank. ^^'

Might also depend on the circumstances and how complete the death was. The Horseman of Famine predescessor still exists within him as a voice, and can take over at times. So she might not be completely dead.

Its also possible some of the missing Horsemen may actually be imprisoned in a similar way.

Personally, I would interpret the next "True" Horseman death as being sufficient to cause Charon to graduate to full diety status.

There's one Harbinger who was a former Horseman but got demoted after getting backstabbed by two others.

It's also implied that a former Horseman of Pestilence is still out there, wandering the Abyss or something.

Is it just me or does this Bestiary feel like the 'Horror Monsters' one? Ranging from real-world mythical critters like the Llorona and Yurei to literary ones like the Whisperer and Unrisen, and the all-new original ones (that Lovelorn -- yikes!), this one seems very horror-heavy.

I'm not complaining, I'm delighted with it. I just wonder if the designers were still excited over Horror Adventures when they made these monsters.

This is more of a side effect of me being the one picking all the monsters for the book, including a LOT that I've been pushing to end up in a Bestiary for several years. Maybe because I wasn't involved in the creation of Horror Adventures, though, the pent-up need to inflict my taste in horror in the rulebook line manifested here!

Eric Hinkle wrote:

Is it just me or does this Bestiary feel like the 'Horror Monsters' one? Ranging from real-world mythical critters like the Llorona and Yurei to literary ones like the Whisperer and Unrisen, and the all-new original ones (that Lovelorn -- yikes!), this one seems very horror-heavy.

I'm not complaining, I'm delighted with it. I just wonder if the designers were still excited over Horror Adventures when they made these monsters.

This is more of a side effect of me being the one picking all the monsters for the book, including a LOT that I've been pushing to end up in a Bestiary for several years. Maybe because I wasn't involved in the creation of Horror Adventures, though, the pent-up need to inflict my taste in horror in the rulebook line manifested here!

Thankies!

Gavel the Empyreal Lords a detailed read, and wow, they're pretty impressive in combat. But each one oddly seems to lack some basic abilities or SLAs I would have expected to synergize with a big ability.

Arshea ignores all mind affecting immunities, but has almost no offensive mind affecting SLAs. (It works very well indeed to enable their defensive mind affecting abilities.) Offensively, Arshea only has Irresistible Dance. Out of combat there are some thought detection spells and Matchmaker which can be important to a role of facilitating love and redemption (you can make undead literally want to bump uglies), but I would have expected Greater Forbid Action or at least Euphoric Tranquility if you don't want to emphasize domination or taking away free will as a standard methodology but do want to be able to neutralize the harm that enemies do to allies.

Black Butterfly's Silence Between ability is amazing, but cries out for Sneak Attack damage that isn't there. Sweet, a 5' step that can teleport 150' and allow a +53 stealth check that beats special senses and can enable denying dex bonus for a full attack? Amazing! But some sneak attack would have really made it shine.

Ragathiel has a similar issue with the Righteous Mantle that disregards all evil outsider fire resistance/immunity and doubles fire damage against devils. Wow, he must have a pretty good fire damage SLA at will, huh? Nope, 1/day Meteor Swarm and nothing else. Sure, he gets five wing attacks with 1d6 fire on them, and flaming burst on his sword, but that's pretty marginal. It's cool that he can do potentially 48d6 damage with his Meteor Swarm to a devil, but after that he's just nickel and diming them. I'd have expected some Fire Storm or Fireball or whatever for repeatedly nuking low level devils on a battle field. And even that super Meteor Swarm will on average only take off about 45% of the HP of a Pit Fiend when it fails its save about 75% of the time.

All of these limitations were probably careful thought through and I can see why they might have been done, but I think ramping up their offensive options with some modest and obvious synergistic abilities was a missed opportunity.

Edit: Also, this doesn't make much sense mechanically.

Instead, he leads by example from the forefront of his army, a shining figure of golden flame daring any foe to confront him and hewing through the ranks of devils to create a vulnerable area in the otherwise perfect infernal formation where his own armies then strike. Thus far, his strategy has served him well, as the archdevils prefer self-preservation to risking themselves in a direct confrontation with the General of Vengeance

Huh? Archdevils (and some powerful Dukes of Hell, based on Furcas' stats in Hell Unleashed) come back to life once per year when killed. Empyreal Lords, alas, do not. It would be weird for an Empyreal Lord to accept more risk attacking in Hell than the Archdevils would accept in defending it.

Gavel the Empyreal Lords a detailed read, and wow, they're pretty impressive in combat. But each one oddly seems to lack some basic abilities or SLAs I would have expected to synergize with a big ability.

Arshea ignores all mind affecting immunities, but has almost no offensive mind affecting SLAs. (It works very well indeed to enable their defensive mind affecting abilities.) Offensively, Arshea only has Irresistible Dance. Out of combat there are some thought detection spells and Matchmaker which can be important to a role of facilitating love and redemption (you can make undead literally want to bump uglies), but I would have expected Greater Forbid Action or at least Euphoric Tranquility if you don't want to emphasize domination or taking away free will as a standard methodology but do want to be able to neutralize the harm that enemies do to allies.

Black Butterfly's Silence Between ability is amazing, but cries out for Sneak Attack damage that isn't there. Sweet, a 5' step that can teleport 150' and allow a +53 stealth check that beats special senses and can enable denying dex bonus for a full attack? Amazing! But some sneak attack would have really made it shine.

Ragathiel has a similar issue with the Righteous Mantle that disregards all evil outsider fire resistance/immunity and doubles fire damage against devils. Wow, he must have a pretty good fire damage SLA at will, huh? Nope, 1/day Meteor Swarm and nothing else. Sure, he gets five wing attacks with 1d6 fire on them, and flaming burst on his sword, but that's pretty marginal. It's cool that he can do potentially 48d6 damage with his Meteor Swarm to a devil, but after that he's just nickel and diming them. I'd have expected some Fire Storm or Fireball or whatever for repeatedly nuking low level devils on a battle field. And even that super Meteor Swarm will on average only take off about 45% of the HP of a Pit Fiend when it fails its save about 75% of the time.

All of these limitations were probably careful thought through and I can see...

In some cases, it's because they used to have big unwieldy spell lists (I included them in my turnover since the previous empyreal lords had them and I figured I needed to as well, but thankfully, from a usability and simplicity standpoint, I think James really improved them by taking them out) and I didn't want to duplicate spells prepared that were already SLAs (or vice versa).

If you are hankering for added options for those empyreal lords in your game (or maybe something else to add when you fight them in their realm or what have you), you can always add them back in (you shouldn't unless you are really confident in selecting between tons of options, though, as it can drag down the game's speed a lot). I suppose you could also use them for spell lists for extremely high level worshippers of the empyreal lord, but they do have blind spots where the SLAs filled in, so do so with caution:

Thanks, Mark!

I overall prefer James' approach to SLAs for demigods since their stats are mostly meant for combat. Where I think the spell casting ability has merit is to provide basic utility casting I think these guys should have (they can all grant miracles and gates and semi-omniscient answers to their best clerics, but can't do a Greater Scrying or Plane Shift on their own?), but I guess a GM can just fudge that sort of thing with "they're gods, it's handled." Some sort of CL capped 9th level prepared casting would probably accomplish it, too, although you might sometimes get into weird spots were the casting stat is better than their Cha so DCs get wonky.

Really? I distinctly remember seeing plane shift in Arshea's at will SLA bar...

Thanks, Mark!

I overall prefer James' approach to SLAs for demigods since their stats are mostly meant for combat. Where I think the spell casting ability has merit is to provide basic utility casting I think these guys should have (they can all grant miracles and gates and semi-omniscient answers to their best clerics, but can't do a Greater Scrying or Plane Shift on their own?), but I guess a GM can just fudge that sort of thing with "they're gods, it's handled." Some sort of CL capped 9th level prepared casting would probably accomplish it, too, although you might sometimes get into weird spots were the casting stat is better than their Cha so DCs get wonky.

No problem, and I agree (it's one reason there's a lot of utility in there); for combat use it's much better off this way and matches the other sorts of non-empyreal lord demigods better as well, plus you don't have to waste time with all those super low level spells for a CR 26+ demigod. Honestly I kind of wish all the B4 empyreal lords were built the way James handled the dev in B6 as well, rather than with the spells.

Might also depend on the circumstances and how complete the death was. The Horseman of Famine predescessor still exists within him as a voice, and can take over at times. So she might not be completely dead.

Its also possible some of the missing Horsemen may actually be imprisoned in a similar way.

Personally, I would interpret the next "True" Horseman death as being sufficient to cause Charon to graduate to full diety status.

There are a lot of ways that GMs could handle it.

Is Lyutheria dead? Is she wearing Trelmarixian like a Halloween costume? Is Trelmarixian still hungry for more Horseman?

Yeah, the list of former Horsemen is intentionally just a sample list and the timeline fuzzy so you could add more as needed. Some like Yrsinius are simply missing as well and might conceivably return in some form (that'd make a fun campaign hook too).

There's also the open question of what constraints the, 5th Horseman might impose on things. Does he/she/it limit the ultimate ascent of any of the Four? Would it be free if all Four Horsemen died? Depends on how you define the Bound Prince in your game (it's another open mystery in the books).

Really? I distinctly remember seeing plane shift in Arshea's at will SLA bar...

Many of them do have plane shift this time around, which is different from past practice and a good improvement. But it's weird that you can offensively plane shift many (previously almost all) demigods into a hostile plane (the plane of water will do it for most!) and they have no way to escape unless they have a Wish or (rarely) Gate available.

Gavel the Empyreal Lords a detailed read, and wow, they're pretty impressive in combat. But each one oddly seems to lack some basic abilities or SLAs I would have expected to synergize with a big ability.

Arshea ignores all mind affecting immunities, but has almost no offensive mind affecting SLAs. (It works very well indeed to enable their defensive mind affecting abilities.) Offensively, Arshea only has Irresistible Dance. Out of combat there are some thought detection spells and Matchmaker which can be important to a role of facilitating love and redemption (you can make undead literally want to bump uglies), but I would have expected Greater Forbid Action or at least Euphoric Tranquility if you don't want to emphasize domination or taking away free will as a standard methodology but do want to be able to neutralize the harm that enemies do to allies.

Black Butterfly's Silence Between ability is amazing, but cries out for Sneak Attack damage that isn't there. Sweet, a 5' step that can teleport 150' and allow a +53 stealth check that beats special senses and can enable denying dex bonus for a full attack? Amazing! But some sneak attack would have really made it shine.

Ragathiel has a similar issue with the Righteous Mantle that disregards all evil outsider fire resistance/immunity and doubles fire damage against devils. Wow, he must have a pretty good fire damage SLA at will, huh? Nope, 1/day Meteor Swarm and nothing else. Sure, he gets five wing attacks with 1d6 fire on them, and flaming burst on his sword, but that's pretty marginal. It's cool that he can do potentially 48d6 damage with his Meteor Swarm to a devil, but after that he's just nickel and diming them. I'd have expected some Fire Storm or Fireball or whatever for repeatedly nuking low level devils on a battle field. And even that super Meteor Swarm will on average only take off about 45% of the HP of a Pit Fiend when it fails its save about 75% of the time.

Oo, good observations, I'll have to keep those in mind.

Also, thanks again to Mark, this time for the spell lists. :)

Got my copy today, and I intend to write a detailed review after reading through once or twice (or three times)

All I know is who ever wrote the Whisperer thingie...I either love it to death or think "My god...how do you kill it?!"

All I know is who ever wrote the Whisperer thingie...I either love it to death or think "My god...how do you kill it?!"

no death

this is my land

you are unwelcome

whispers intensify

Eric Hinkle wrote:

Is it just me or does this Bestiary feel like the 'Horror Monsters' one? Ranging from real-world mythical critters like the Llorona and Yurei to literary ones like the Whisperer and Unrisen, and the all-new original ones (that Lovelorn -- yikes!), this one seems very horror-heavy.

I'm not complaining, I'm delighted with it. I just wonder if the designers were still excited over Horror Adventures when they made these monsters.

This is more of a side effect of me being the one picking all the monsters for the book, including a LOT that I've been pushing to end up in a Bestiary for several years. Maybe because I wasn't involved in the creation of Horror Adventures, though, the pent-up need to inflict my taste in horror in the rulebook line manifested here!

Whatever the reason, the results are wonderful.

One of the archdevil entries (I forget which - not at home) has a major typo where it stays in italics after citing another book.

One of the archdevil entries (I forget which - not at home) has a major typo where it stays in italics after citing another book.

It's in the herecite entry (p.155). Easy mistake, given the related concepts; I would've made it too.

Also, the herecite is one of the more horrifying mosnters in this bestiary, alongside the gongorinan.

Ok, let's talk changes to reprints if you've spotted any.

1. Obcisidaemon: Some really nice upgrades make this a more worthy CR19 peer to the demons/devils in its league. Old stats here.

Bestiary 6 version adds Unholy Aura, with an across the board +4 adjustment to saves but not overall AC. Strength dropped by 4, though. Quickened SLA changed from spell turning to cloudkill (it still has spell turning 3/day), which makes more sense from a combat action economy perspective. Feats: traded out cleave line for sunder line and traded a redundant critical feat (stagger when it already had bleeding) for improved critical, still has the full vital strike line to go with its gargantuan 4d8 weapon damage. Inherit Soul ability (absorb souls) DC dropped by 1. Oh, it also gets a new special ability proficiency with ALL weapons, so you can trade out its standard halberd for some cool exotic, just adjust its weapon specific feats acoordingly.

The greatest changes, though, are to the signature Cloak of Souls ability, which lets it burn stored souls as a swift action for combat buffs. The original gave an option of +1 DC to the next SLA, 3d6 temp HP for an hour, or 1d6 damage on the next melee attack. Cool concept, weak execution. (T-shirt: "A fiend burned up my immortal soul and all he got was this lousy 3.5 damage.") The new one gives +2 DC, or flaming burst/icy burst/shocking burst/wounding for 1 round, or CAST MOTHER F#@*ING HEAL ON SELF.

A fully charged standard Obscisidaemon can now use its swift action for up to SEVEN STRAIGHT Heal spells during combat. Of course instead it'll be dropping a quickened Cloudkill on itself as an opener after it closes and uses a 12d8 Greater Vital Strike (or Greater Sunder), then enhancing its full attack (probably made with a still 4d8 elven curve blade with a 15-20 crit range, because your GM is sadistic and evil) with some elemental or bleeding rider effect before it bothers healing itself in round 3.

Did I mention its energy resistances (in addition to acid immunity) are 30 for some reason, compared to 10 for normal fiends, including stuff like Balors and PIt Fiends? And 3/day spell turning? You can kill it you pile on all the damage in one round, but you can't grind it down with middling effects and numbers, it'll perpetually kill weak stuff in melee to absorb souls and power constant self heals, plus spam cloudkills at will to destroy any armies that try to concentrate against it.

These things are UGLY now.

There were also some other tweaks to reprints. Erodaemons have sneak attack now, for example.

More reprint changes:

2. Erodaemon: Better combatant, worse at its seduction and death via heartbreak routine.

Combat changes: bite went up a damage die, strength increased by 2, and it picked up 2d6 sneak attack damage. Picked up combat reflexes (but no reach even with the tail, so why?). Quickened SLA changed from Crushing Despair to Suggestion. Still has 3/day enervation, one of its best tricks.

Out of combat: Detect Thoughts went from constant to at will, which is awful given the manifestations FAQ and that it needs this active to assume the form of a new humanoid and seduce someone as the object of their desire. The quickened suggestion change arguably helps, though.

Best combat play is still to cast Unnatural Lust on a bad will save/low Cha target, take the AoO (if your DM rules it that way) when he tries to kiss the daemon, then free action Wilting Kiss. If it's successful you can teleport a decent distance away to start the Charisma drain for being 30' away and target someone new, if it fails might as well full attack and put some Cha drain on via the tail attack.

3. Phasmadaemon: More dangerous in every way, and more thematically built.

Melee: Strength went up by 6, damage dice on bite and claw also went up, for significant DPR boost.

SLAs: 3/day quicken SLA changed from Greater Shadow Conjuration to Phantasmal Killer, which makes this more of a deadly quick killer and is more thematic. CL on all SLAs dropped from 20th to 18th, more in line with its HD and CR.

Feats: Lost social stuff like Deceitful and Intimidating Prowess, plus Power Attack. Gets the final two Vital Strike feats in return, plus Combat Reflexes, which it has the reach to use.

Skills: Int drops by 2, and it loses Disguise (it's a huge scary demon snake with a bunch of figment spells, but no glamers, so this was useless), and Escape Artist(???). Adds Knowledge (Arcana), which matches well with this SLA heavy creature that has two spell penetration feats and two shadow SLAs to mimic evocation and conjuration effects.

Verdict: Very nice and smart changes make this a more coherent and better tuned creature.

4. Venedaemon: Some very nice and thematic tweaks to a weak daemon make it much more interesting and part of a cohesive ecosystem.

Melee: Goes from 2 to 4 tentacle attacks, strength goes up by 2, picks up Weapon Finesse for a +2 to hit. Also gets Arcane Strike feat, for an extra +2 damage when it uses its otherwise useless swift action. Makes melee much better, spells become more of a backup/support role.

Spells: Those known don't change (and don't matter, you should be customizing), but Cha drops by 4, reducing all DCs by 2 and shifting it more towards melee if you go with the entry level. But this is a prime candidate for sorcerer levels to boost this into respectability as a flexible daemonic spellcaster, and as soon as you add a single level of sorcerer you get to add +4 back to Cha.

Feats: As above, gained Arcane Strike and Weapon Finesse to boost melee, lost Improved Initiative (less important for the shift towards full attacks) and the flavorful but combat useless choice of Magical Aptitude.

THIS IS THE COOL PART: The SLAs and special abilities have changed to make this thing synergize incredibly well the cacaodaemon's abilities to provide soul gems. In the original version it could consume a soul gem as a swift action (normally a standard action) to fuel casting a spell without expending a slot.

It still has that ability, but the summon SLA changed from 1 cacodaemon at 75% chance of success to 2d4 at 70%. Ironically you'd use this after combat to convert your kills to soul gems, then pocket them after the cacodaemons disappear so you have a stockpile for the next fight.

But wait, there's more! If you already have a cacodaemon partner around, the Venedaemon now has a special SLA to force it, as Suggestion with a racial DC boost, to feed it a soul gem it has on hand/in its gullet. (The action economy of this is a bit vague given the turn order, though. I guess it takes two consecutive swift actions from the Venedaemon, one to order the gem, the next to consume it.)

And the final change? The cabal organization of Venedaemons changed from 3-6 Venedaemons to also include 2-12 cacodaemons in support.

This is smart, skilled, excellent attention to detail folks, on a cool but under baked and low CR creature from a less popular fiend race that would have been easy to phone in.

Go buy this book!

I probably won't do any more of these unless I spot any more really cool or noteworthy adaptations of reprints, but I think it's worth noting how good these are so far.

More reprint changes:

2. Erodaemon: Better combatant, worse at its seduction and death via heartbreak routine.

Combat changes: bite went up a damage die, strength increased by 2, and it picked up 2d6 sneak attack damage. Picked up combat reflexes (but no reach even with the tail, so why?). Quickened SLA changed from Crushing Despair to Suggestion. Still has 3/day enervation, one of its best tricks.

Out of combat: Detect Thoughts went from constant to at will, which is awful given the manifestations FAQ and that it needs this active to assume the form of a new humanoid and seduce someone as the object of their desire. The quickened suggestion change arguably helps, though.

Best combat play is still to cast Unnatural Lust on a bad will save/low Cha target, take the AoO (if your DM rules it that way) when he tries to kiss the daemon, then free action Wilting Kiss. If it's successful you can teleport a decent distance away to start the Charisma drain for being 30' away and target someone new, if it fails might as well full attack and put some Cha drain on via the tail attack.

Perhaps the reason they switched detect thoughts to at will is because they added the shapechanger subtype, which to me implies the Erodaemon being able to shapeshift at will, instead of only being able to change form with it's Object of Desire ability (The original book of the damned ecology text states they change forms at will for practice when not hunting mortals so I assume the goal of Object of Desire was for the Erodaemon to easily have that knowledge instead of having to have them stalk their victim for a while like a Succubi or Lilitu would have to in this situation). That change would make the Erodaemon more able to play the long game of causing death by heartbreak as well as giving the Daemons a subtle option like the Demons and Devils have. However despite adding the subtype the special qualities line doesn't include change shape so it seems the only thing the Erodaemon can do is change into the form of a person someone lusts after (Amusingly neither the Succubus or the original Lilitu have the shapechanger subtype but both have more shapechanging abilities than the Erodaemon). However since the Erodaemon doesn't have a time limit on Object of Desire so as long as the Erodaemon doesn't attack anyone it can in theory take on a form unrelated to the particular person it is targeting and use this to approach them undetected.

Also the Wilting Kiss does cha damage for some reason. (original did cha drain)

Second side note, the new art for the Erodaemon and the Lilitu are gorgeous.

Just picked it up and am enjoying it greatly. Already intend to use the Alp.

The only two things that I am disappointed in is still no Carnotaurus (here's hoping it's in book 7) and the Saurians. While I like the concept and will definitely use them, when I heard they were in the book I thought they'd be medium and a possible PC race.

Still though, a very enjoyable release with plenty of outstanding options. Great job, Paizo.

I think I have been doing this too long to get overly excited about a Bestiary ;P....but this book does have some creatures I am very glad to see added to the setting. I think my favorites are the Wild Hunt, Krampus, Green Man, Alter Ego, the Archdevils (especially Geryon), Fallen, and Sakhil (who I just find interesting).

The new playable races really didn't do anything for me....although I like the flavor of the Yaddithian....I just can't get past the Jar Jar Binks appearance (and wish they had come up with something completely different).

The Yurei, Tenome, Siabrae, Hupia, and Lovelorn all all great additions as well.

The art (yes, I'm very image driven) is all at least good, and in many cases excellent.

All in all a good addition to the collection....

Now if they would only do a re-treatment of the Unilla/Cabal Devil :P

Just picked it up and am enjoying it greatly. Already intend to use the Alp.

The only two things that I am disappointed in is still no Carnotaurus (here's hoping it's in book 7) and the Saurians. While I like the concept and will definitely use them, when I heard they were in the book I thought they'd be medium and a possible PC race.

Still though, a very enjoyable release with plenty of outstanding options. Great job, Paizo.

I personally am disappointed we don't have a gorgonopsian yet. Although I was surprised that Quetzalcoatlus wasn't in an earlier bestiary. Didn't realize it hadn't already been statted!

Now if they would only do a re-treatment of the Unilla/Cabal Devil :P

You and me both Night plant.

nighttree wrote:

Now if they would only do a re-treatment of the Unilla/Cabal Devil :P

You and me both Night plant.

Thirded. I'd like to see the chortov (Pathfinder #27, p.80-81) as well. It's essentially a pig devil made from the souls of the unjustly damned. Now that's horror.

The chortov is probably my second favorite of the Council of Thieves devils, and my favorite (the advodaza) has already been reprinted.

The Bonethorn is really scary and clever, a good way to mess with groups in an undead heavy campaign where no one has Knowledge Nature. Those spores are terrifying, don't get hit, or don't fail a fortitude save, or you're going to die slowly.

I quite like the product over all, but does anyone else have a wierdly low-rez image by Tyler Walpole for the Vavakia Demon on p.89?

I've looked closely at every other image in my copy and I've found every other image to be very high resolution and generally beautiful - the contrast is jarring to the point where I can't help but think it might not be intentional...

If I recall, the illustration from the original Book of the Damned had the same issue. Is there anything similar going on with the brimorak demon's art?

The brimorak is a bit blurry around the edges, but that seems intentional to me. I can't count pixels around the edges as I might with the Vavakia.