By 'fighter only' do you mean it requires weapon training or effective levels in fighter for feat prerequisites or actual levels in fighter?It's one of two ways. Finesse Training is the easier way, but it's fighter only. Spear Dancer style can do it too and be take by anyone, but it is much more feat intensive.So, Advanced Weapon Training has been mentioned to have an option:
** spoiler omitted **
Advanced Weapon Training modifies the fighter's weapon training class feature. Unless you can find a way to get it through an archetype, it's fighter only.
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Advanced Weapon Training modifies the fighter's weapon training class feature. Unless you can find a way to get it through an archetype, it's fighter only.By 'fighter only' do you mean it requires weapon training or effective levels in fighter for feat prerequisites or actual levels in fighter?It's one of two ways. Finesse Training is the easier way, but it's fighter only. Spear Dancer style can do it too and be take by anyone, but it is much more feat intensive.So, Advanced Weapon Training has been mentioned to have an option:
** spoiler omitted **
Sohei monk, Myrmidarch magus, and a few archetypes for other classes in the book give weapon training to non-fighters, so advanced training would work for them too.
Sohei monk, Myrmidarch magus, and a few archetypes for other classes in the book give weapon training to non-fighters, so advanced training would work for them too.Advanced Weapon Training modifies the fighter's weapon training class feature. Unless you can find a way to get it through an archetype, it's fighter only.By 'fighter only' do you mean it requires weapon training or effective levels in fighter for feat prerequisites or actual levels in fighter?It's one of two ways. Finesse Training is the easier way, but it's fighter only. Spear Dancer style can do it too and be take by anyone, but it is much more feat intensive.So, Advanced Weapon Training has been mentioned to have an option:
** spoiler omitted **
Excellent! I was hoping it would work with a Myrmidarch. :)
By 'fighter only' do you mean it requires weapon training or effective levels in fighter for feat prerequisites or actual levels in fighter?It's one of two ways. Finesse Training is the easier way, but it's fighter only. Spear Dancer style can do it too and be take by anyone, but it is much more feat intensive.So, Advanced Weapon Training has been mentioned to have an option:
** spoiler omitted **
The first one. Not only does it need weapon training though, it also needs you to have enough weapon training to pick a second fighter weapon group.
The first one. Not only does it need weapon training though, it also needs you to have enough weapon training to pick a second fighter weapon group.By 'fighter only' do you mean it requires weapon training or effective levels in fighter for feat prerequisites or actual levels in fighter?It's one of two ways. Finesse Training is the easier way, but it's fighter only. Spear Dancer style can do it too and be take by anyone, but it is much more feat intensive.So, Advanced Weapon Training has been mentioned to have an option:
** spoiler omitted **
Cool. So a Myrmidarch with VMC Fighter should be able to qualify relatively early.
Edit: oops, I misremembered the VMC progression. 11th level isn't really early.
I'm not sure I'm seeing the sword-and-shield support I was hoping for, but there are so many things that I would have never expected.Check out the Weapon and Shield weapon tricks. Those are awesome for a sword and board character. Always take 10 on Feint checks, trigger an AoO bash on a successful feint, and the ability to move through threatened squares without provoking?
Sign me up!
Yep, I saw them, I just hadn't envisioned my Cavalier being a feinter before. That's why I said I wasn't sure. They are certainly interesting options.
I've read *most* of my PDF now, and it's almost like this book was written specifically for me. See, in about a year or so, I will *finally* get to play a lore warden fighter. I love that archetype to bits...except that it keeps Weapon Training. Don't get me wrong, I like weapon training, but this character isn't going to be branching out into several different weapon types. From the beginning, I was planning for her to focus on one, very specific weapon.
What didn't help is very few fighter archetypes are compatible with each other, as fighter has so few class features & almost every single archetype alters or replaces just about all of them. The only one I remember off the top of my head is the one that gets the brawler's Martial Flexibility, and I didn't want to add that much bookkeeping (this character will already be gestalting with inquisitor).
So yes, Advanced Weapon Training is something that VERY much piques my interest. And that "one, very specific weapon"? I was planning on designing it myself, so those rules/guidelines will help as well. :)
Even in a more general sense, this book speaks to me. I tend to play martial focused character over any other guide, and I especially LOVE the fighter. Not only did this book have things for characters I'm playing now (my bloody-knuckled rowdy bloodrager), but character concepts I've been tinkering with for a while, and planted the seeds for NEW ones (because I don't have nearly enough of those).
So once again, thank you to everyone who helped to create what is more than likely my very favorite Player Companion to date. :D
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What type of stamina options are there?
edit: I see they added details for newer feats. if that is it, anything stand out?
Owen gave me a lot of flexibility in choosing which feats got stamina tricks in Weapon Master's Handbook. In the end, I ultimately chose to do all of the weapon-focused combat feats from Inner Sea Combat, Inner Sea World Guide, and Inner Sea Gods as stamina trick options. I felt that they were the best sources to draw from because two of those books are definitive, setting-defining sources for Golarion and the third is the definitive guide on combat in the Inner Sea region.
Hopefully everyone finds a few stamina tricks in the book that they're keen on. :D
Out of curiosity, for the weapon style feats, is there a proviso on there that opens them up early for say, fighter or ranger, much like the unarmed style feats open early for monk?
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Out of curiosity, for the weapon style feats, is there a proviso on there that opens them up early for say, fighter or ranger, much like the unarmed style feats open early for monk?
No, but characters with weapon training can use the feats with a much broader range of weapons.
If only there was a way to get ALL the Pathfinder Combat feats together to have Combat Tricks done for them. I wish Paizo did "Web Enhancements" like WotC did in the days of D&D 3.0/3.5. It was awesome to have supplemental support given to the community freely for new products. A Web Enhancement for "Pathfinder Unchained" would be sweet to have all the PF combat feats given tricks.
Problem is, web enhancements were free, and Paizo doesn't normally like to devote a lot of time to free stuff unless it correlates to them making money soon after. Plus, Paizo prints a lot of feats that are then made obsolete later when they print a feat just like it with a new name.
Does the Elven style feat that let you use your Int modifier for damage instead of your Str modifier have any restrictions that would prevent it from working with Spell Combat like the new version of Slashing Grace does?
Does the Elven style feat that let you use your Int modifier for damage instead of your Str modifier have any restrictions that would prevent it from working with Spell Combat like the new version of Slashing Grace does?
The only restriction is that the weapon needs to be a longsword, a rapier, or a weapon with "elven" in its name (aka melee elven weapon familiarity weapons). Plus you need to enter the style as a swift action before you can benefit from it.
Other then that, no.
The Khakkhara, Gnome Flickmace, and War Flute don't list what kind of damage they do.
Bludgeoning, Piercing, Slashing?
The other two were added by Owen so I can't comment, but I intended for the gnome flickmace should deal bludgeoning damage. Your mileage may vary, as might the official verdict from the Golem. :-P
p12. Racial Feats
"The following feats are available to any member of the
appropriate race with the prerequisite traits."what race is for "Slipslinger" feats? halfling since it deals with slings?
Halflings with the warslinger racial trait.
Every designer has his or her own set of pet peeves, and mine are when new options are racially restricted without a mechanical reason for the restriction. Flavor is all well and good, but flavor can be written by anyone and isn't necessarily consistent; I feel that if you are going to impose a mechanical restriction, then it needs a mechanical justification. (Again, just my personal design philosophy, but its one that guided my design of the Trickster Races content in the Dirty Tactics Toolbox as well as the Racial Styles presented here.)
So for all of them, there's a racial trait somewhere that justifies why the style is for that race. It might not be a prerequisite (i.e. Elven Battle doesn't directly require the weapon familiarity), but there is a mechanical reason why humans can't take these styles, and those mechanical reasons are supported by flavor reasons.
For instance, halflings use the warslinger racial trait as their justification for the Slipslinger Style, and its backed up by the sling being a traditional halfling weapon as a result of proper weapons being difficult for a slave to acquire. (The 'slave' bit is implied as a result of the style being named for the Cheliaxian slur for halflings, 'slip.')
Does the Elven style feat that let you use your Int modifier for damage instead of your Str modifier have any restrictions that would prevent it from working with Spell Combat like the new version of Slashing Grace does?The only restriction is that the weapon needs to be a longsword, a rapier, or a weapon with "elven" in its name (aka melee elven weapon familiarity weapons). Plus you need to enter the style as a swift action before you can benefit from it.
Other then that, no.
Thanks! It sounds like it might be a good option for a DEX based Mindblade. Weapon Finesse will give you DEX on attack rolls for the rapier, elven curve blade, and elven branch spear and this will give you INT to damage. You are likely to have similarly high INT and DEX scores, so this is almost like getting Fencing Grace with three weapons. You would mostly use a rapier at lower levels and then rely on the others when you get the ability to use Spell Combat while two-handing. The combat maneuver benefits are also pretty good especially with Maneuver Mastery and an elven branch spear. The only real downside that I see is the swift action to enter the style. Occultists and INT-based Eldritch Knights might also find these feats to be a good option since they get proficiency with all martial weapons.
It seems to me that half-elves will also be able to use this style. They count as elves for the purposes of feats, and Inner Sea Races lets them trade Adaptability for the Elven Weapon Familiarity trait.
From the discussions both here and on other threads, I'm starting to think that this will be my favorite Player Companion ever.
Do you use INT in place of or in addition to strength in elven style?
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For Weapon Trick feat, how does it work? Do you pick a group and receive ALL the tricks in the group as long as you meet the 2nd set of prerequisites or do you only pick one from a group?
I believe that, upon taking the feat, you can use any of the tricks that you meet the prerequisite for.
Do you use INT in place of or in addition to strength in elven style?
It replaces strength
Haven't had a chance to read it yet, but from the discussion here, it sounds like a bunch of really good ideas, implemented in the most disappointing way they could think of. Par for the course with martial stuff, really.
The Rondelero Swashbuckler that was mentioned, for example?
Sounds like it gets a free ExWP.... and nothing else useful? Anyone able to give a quick run-down on the pros (if there are any) and cons? (though, to be fair, base swashbuckler is such a shining beacon of 'nice idea, terrible implementation' that you've not really got anything great to lose in the first place).
Do you use INT in place of or in addition to strength in elven style?It replaces strength
ahh good, I could see all sorts of craziness the other way.
Haven't had a chance to read it yet, but from the discussion here, it sounds like a bunch of really good ideas, implemented in the most disappointing way they could think of. Par for the course with martial stuff, really.
The Rondelero Swashbuckler that was mentioned, for example?
Sounds like it gets a free ExWP.... and nothing else useful? Anyone able to give a quick run-down on the pros (if there are any) and cons? (though, to be fair, base swashbuckler is such a shining beacon of 'nice idea, terrible implementation' that you've not really got anything great to lose in the first place).
Well, if you find the vanilla class disappointing, archetypes usually aren't going to swoop in and give a bunch of extra power. There are plenty of non-disappointing things in the book, like racial styles, the magic item tricks, and advanced weapon training. I would use at least half of the archetypes over the vanilla class.
Pros- good at disarming (+4 with one point in pool)
Shield bash with a buckler and switch between it and your falcata without losing the bonus or being disqualified from any Swashbuckler stuff
Extra point of damage over rapier
Cons- No Charmed Life until 10
19-20 crit range
That's it, really. Everything else just gets rid of minor deeds (Derringer Do, Kip Up) or is pretty neutral later-level stuff (trading bleed damage for sunder attempts, etc.)
Does the Elven style feat that let you use your Int modifier for damage instead of your Str modifier have any restrictions that would prevent it from working with Spell Combat like the new version of Slashing Grace does?The only restriction is that the weapon needs to be a longsword, a rapier, or a weapon with "elven" in its name (aka melee elven weapon familiarity weapons). Plus you need to enter the style as a swift action before you can benefit from it.
Other then that, no.
I feel really silly for believing that this book wouldn't have something specifically made to benefit Magi now. :/
I feel really silly for believing that this book wouldn't have something specifically made to benefit Magi now. :/Does the Elven style feat that let you use your Int modifier for damage instead of your Str modifier have any restrictions that would prevent it from working with Spell Combat like the new version of Slashing Grace does?The only restriction is that the weapon needs to be a longsword, a rapier, or a weapon with "elven" in its name (aka melee elven weapon familiarity weapons). Plus you need to enter the style as a swift action before you can benefit from it.
Other then that, no.
So without giving away too much from the feats themselves, here's what the feat progression for a single-class fighter taking the Elven Battle Style feats (up to the Int to Damage feat) looks like compared to a magus of the same level.
Fighter
1 - Elven Battle Training
BF - Weapon Finesse
BF - Elven Battle Style
3 - Freebie
BF - Elven Battle Focus.
5 - Freebie
BF - Freebie
7 - Freebie
Magus
1 - Weapon Finesse
3 - Elven Battle Training
5 - Elven Battle Style
BF - Freebie
7 - Elven Battle Focus
The trick to designing feats for fighters is BAB +4 / 7 / 10 / 13 (aka, 1 BAB after a multiple of 3). For example, if you give a feat a BAB requirement of +4, you ensure that 3/4 BAB classes can't take the feat before 7th level. The reason is that 3/4 BAB classes don't meet the BAB +4 prerequisite until 6th level, and there's currently no 3/4 BAB class in the game that gets combat feats as a bonus feat at 6th level. (Not including any of the game's hundreds of archetypes, of course.) Likewise, having more feats as prerequisites then a non-fighter would have at that level helps, but no so many that the fighter loses his ability to branch out into a bunch of different avenues. That last one is a tight rope to walk.
So basically, the magus can't get Int to damage with her weapons until 7th level while the fighter can reap the benefits at Level 4, just one level after the rogue gets Dex to damage. Ultimately, the style REALLY helps elven lore wardens, as well as elven duelists who begin as fighters. Magi do benefit, but waiting until Level 7 for the feat is a LONG time to wait, and ensures that the fighter is genuinely better at the style.
And the feats only give you Int to damage for the rapier, elven curve blade, and elven branch spear. Most Magus archetypes can't effectively use the last two, and Fencing Grace is better if you are using a rapier. So only one Magus archetype really benefits from this feat line: the Mindblade. And only if the Mindblade is a Dex build. And even then, as Alexander points out, the Int to damage starts late.
Elven Battle Focus isn't really a benefit you're "reaping". It takes a bunch of feats for extremely small bonuses (seriously, Elven Battle Style lets you not provoke when you use a combat maneuver you're not specialized in on an attack of opportunity, and Elven Battle Training is a feat tax you might very well forget is on your character sheet) to get... being slightly worse than just focusing on either Strength or Dexterity to damage. If it was a feat on its own with no prerequisites it would still be of extremely limited usefulness. Pass.
So how good is the Dwarven style?
From what I understand
1st: Makes Hatred bigger
2nd: You can apply Hatred to people who attack you (how many times per day)
3rd: I don't know what it does.
Is the elven style a complete replacement of strength?
Cause if it lets you get Intelligence to damage without giving it to-hit as well then I would rather just do dex based builds Instead of using the Style.
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And the feats only give you Int to damage for the rapier, elven curve blade, and elven branch spear.
And longsword. Still, a limited list.
So how good is the Dwarven style?
From what I understand
1st: Makes Hatred bigger
2nd: You can apply Hatred to people who attack you (how many times per day)
3rd: I don't know what it does.
1: Dwarven Hatred Style: Increase hatred bonus to +2 and applies to hit and damage.
2: Dwarven Seething: If you get hit by anyone, you can apply either defensive training or hatred against that target as an immediate action. Lasts until combat ends, you change styles, or you set a new target.3: Dwarven Fury: When using Seething, you apply both defensive training and hatred and there is no limit on number of targets.
Ok that's pretty good even just 2 feats in, so I'm glad I told my friend to wait before picking his 3rd level feat.
Is the elven style a complete replacement of strength?
Cause if it lets you get Intelligence to damage without giving it to-hit as well then I would rather just do dex based builds Instead of using the Style.
The only niche I can see this Int-to-damage being used is if you're using Weapon Finesse with an Elven Curved Blade, and want to dump Strength, while having a good Int. For the ECB, the only available Dex-do-damage option is 3 levels of Unchained Rogue.
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The only niche I can see this Int-to-damage being used is if you're using Weapon Finesse with an Elven Curved Blade, and want to dump Strength, while having a good Int. For the ECB, the only available Dex-do-damage option is 3 levels of Unchained Rogue.Is the elven style a complete replacement of strength?
Cause if it lets you get Intelligence to damage without giving it to-hit as well then I would rather just do dex based builds Instead of using the Style.
It's a good option for an elf trip specialist lore warden with a elven branched spear. They have the bonus feats to eat the style requirements, good racial bonuses to use it with +DEX/+INT, a scaling bonus to maneuver checks that will use the branch spear's AoO potential, and will have plenty of skills for know your enemy knowledge checks.
Question; can Advanced Weapon Training apply to archetypes that also recieve weapon training, like the Sohei or Myrmidarch?
Edit; found an answer.
[Sohei]...And Myrmidarch, and anyone else who gets multiple picks of the fighter weapon training class feature, but *mostly* fighters.
Second question; Can a Rondelero Swashbuckler alternate attacks with their buckler and still Precise Strike?
Just to clarify to avoid table variation...If one is equiped with a buckler they simultaneously qualify for both the "One-Handed Weapon Tricks" and the "Weapon and Shield Tricks", because their off-hand is empty and they are wielding a shield?
Weapon and Shield specifically mentions rondelero fighters, so bucklers must count as shields for that set of tricks.
I presume any buckler shield bonus would be lost if one were to use the Free Hand Maneuver or Strike and Seize tricks, since the empty off-hand would be used.
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The ascetic style seems to open up an interesting option due to the bolded sentence in the spoiler.
Benefit: Choose one weapon from the monk fighter weapon group. While using this style and wielding the chosen weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike, as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks.
Are the amulet of mighty fists and body wraps of mighty strikes "effects that augment an unarmed strike" for the purpose of this feat? If I have a flaming amulet of mighty fists, a +1 frost body wrap of mighty strikes and a +2 cestus, would using ascetic style allow me to punch with a +2 flaming frost cestus strike?
Since there is a hard cap of +10 worth of bonuses on a single weapon, what happens when the combined bonuses exceed +10 (for example if I had a +5 brilliant energy cestus (total +9 worth of bonuses)and a flaming shock amulet of mighty fists (+2 worth of bonuses)?
You'd get a situation like a bow and arrow. The net is going to be a +15 set of weapons...but the combined cost will be, what, 700k?
However, an interesting way to help keep the cost of wielding two weapons down by spreading the cost across the amulet as well.
==Aelryinth
I am completely, absolutely astounded by the number of Nice Things I'm seeing so far from this.
...so I'll give it six months tops before it is 'errata'd' into complete incompetence again.
sigh