Pathfinder Player Companion: Weapon Master's Handbook (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Player Companion: Weapon Master's Handbook (PFRPG)
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Don't just hack and slash like a fresh recruit! Rise above the rank and file to become a true artist of combat with the secrets found within Pathfinder Player Companion: Weapon Master's Handbook! Emulate the fighting style of your patron deity, learn to use your weapons in tricky new ways, or simply enchant your boring old sword with new and exciting magical abilities. Whether you want to perfect the use of a single weapon, become an expert on a whole group of them, or dedicate yourself to a specific fighting style, this player-friendly volume contains everything you need!

Inside this book, you'll find:

  • Weapon style feats giving characters focusing on one type of weapon or weapon combination new options unavailable to less specialized combatants.
  • Advanced weapon mastery options that let specialized fighters continue to improve with their chosen weapons, even at higher levels.
  • Magic item mastery, which pits a character's martial spirit against the essential nature of their magic items, resulting in radically different magic effects.
  • An expansion of the combat trick and stamina system introduced in Pathfinder RPG Pathfinder Unchained to cover combat feats from several Pathfinder Campaign Setting sourcebooks.
  • A weapon design system that allows Game Masters to let their imaginations run wild, adding almost any conceivable weapon to their campaigns.

This Pathfinder Player Companion is intended for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and the Pathfinder campaign setting, but can easily be incorporated into any fantasy world.

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-796-3

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Player Companion Subscription.

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Amazing for Fighters

5/5

This book started it all for Fighters in 2106. Finally, the class gets options that lift it from bottom of the barrel.

Combine whats in this book with the combat stamina system from pathfinder unchained, get the armor master handbook and magic tactics toolbox, google "Iron Caster", and enjoy playing fighters that are amazing.


So nice I bought it twice

5/5

I bought this book from my local game store some time ago and just now bought the PDF so I could have a copy on my tablet. This is, in my opinion, probably one of the best books Paizo has put out including other product lines such as the Core books and APs. It's chock full of interesting options for martial characters, especially the Fighter. The Fighter, which has traditionally been the most boring class in the game, got elevated to one of my favorite classes to tinker with thanks to this book alone. Not everything's a hit, like the weapon creation rules which are kind of funky and seem more like a tool to powergame weapon groups in weird ways, but they're minor enough issues or just not bad enough to detract from the book as a whole.

Absolutely pick this book up, if for no other reason than to support this kind of content in the future.


This book unchains the fighter

5/5

The fighter has needed some love for a long time.

You have a plethora of worthwhile options to build the fighter you want to. Some things i love. You ever watch a movie and your hero does some neat trick like blind the bad guy by pulling his helmet over his eyes while stabbing someone else, this book legalizes this! There are bunch of trick options to give you legal ways to do neat things in combat.

They have some combat styles that definitely have their niche. More feats for throwing weapons that are long over due, and they are very potent. Almost essential for someone relying on thrown weapons.

They have ways for warrior types to use magical items in ways not intended. Now I do not see this fitting a weapon master thing to use my incredible health to force a goblin fire drum to make me fly! There issue with this, but it is neat if not out of place. I would have used cha for this ability option.

This was a great book done well. Anyone that like variety in their fighters this is a must buy. Great job Paizo!


When all you have is a hammer, SMASH SMASH SMASH

5/5

Have you ever wanted to ricochet a hammer across the skulls of 3 orcs? Are you intrigued by the idea of lockpicking with a crossbow? Do you ever just want to punch a disintegration ray out of your way with a gauntlet while smugly proclaiming "Not today, buddy!" All this, plus more is possible in the Weapon Master's Handbook. Paizo is pushing the limits of what martial characters can achieve in the Pathfinder ruleset, and I freaking love every bit of it.

Highlights from the book include:

Alternate bonuses fighters can take at each tier of weapon mastery, such as adding bravery to all will saves, applying weapon finesse to any weapon group, proficiency with all exotic weapons, replacing skill requirements with BAB, and more.

New style feats. Who says they have to be restricted to monks? These include a style that specializes in whacking people with bows/guns, one that specializes in 5-foot steps and lunges, and a style that turns spears into double weapons.

Butt loads of other feats. What I love about them is just how usable they are. In Ultimate Combat, maybe 10-25% of the feats seemed usable, but in here, I can find uses and potential build ideas for most of the ones in this book. Some of my favorites are Spellcut (substitute base saves with BAB against magic), Smash from the Air (knock away magic attacks and freaking boulders), and Cayden Cailean's Blade and Tankard, which specializes in using a tankard as an off-hand weapon!

The only potential downside I can see to this book, is that a lot of the features are specific to fighters, or require weapon mastery as a class feature to qualify. That being said, I was disappointed by their lack of inclusion in Pathfinder Unchained, so I feel they were overdue for some love.

I really hope Paizo continues in this direction for fun, flavorful, and most importantly, useful combat options. This is probably my favorite player companion of all time, and I can't wait to try out all these new builds swimming around in my head.


I iz martial, can I haz nice things?

5/5

A book on martials, in particular Fighters, getting cool things. Like flying without having to rely upon a spellcaster. Or getting more out-of-combat options, which you likely did not expect from a book like this. Excellent, well-thought, innovative material.

The new direction of Player Companions under Owen is excellent. If Armor Master Handbook will be half as good... my only gripe will be that these too should be put together into a hardcover.


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So you're correct about the Ascetic Form working for more than unarmed strikes. Pummeling style is a feat.
If you're level is counting as monk for unarmed strike damage you can't make that level count twice for unarmed strike damage.


Chess Pwn wrote:
So you're correct about the Ascetic Form working for more than unarmed strikes. Pummeling style is a feat.

Got it. I see that Pummeling Style has that caveat that it "works only with unarmed strikes, no matter what other abilities you might possess."

Chess Pwn wrote:
If you're level is counting as monk for unarmed strike damage you can't make that level count twice for unarmed strike damage.

I didn't think that sounded right. So Ascetic Strike really is a bad choice for an Esoteric Magus. Ascetic Style gets me most of the things I want, and Ascetic Form gets me the use of Spellstrike with my chosen weapon. That opens up new options for dealing with DR and also opens up ways for an Esoteric to have a higher critical threat range for Spellstrike than he can achieve with his fists alone.

Thanks for all your help. You've made the world of unarmed strike fighting a lot more clear to me. :)


Yeah, this chain is awesome, but the later feats are dependent on your class and class abilities. It's easy to want the first on anyone, the later feats maybe not so much.


So, the seconds "effects" of Ascetic Style is "effects (any)", not "effects (of feats)"? it doesn't seem right, because Style Strike is obviously an effect that augments an unarmed strike, yet it's called out in a later feat.

Scarab Sages

Ascetic Style is effect (unarmed strike) (any).

Ascetic Form is effects that otherwise specify a specific kind of unarmed strike. For example, in style strike, you would normally be limited to using a kick for flying kick, or an elbow for elbow strike. With Ascetic Form, you can use Flying Kick with your weapon even though your weapon is not a kick.


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Ascetic style has two parts.

Apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike
as a prerequisite.
So dragon style and ferocity would boost the weapon's damage.
Stunning fist can be done with a weapon.
Vicious stomp could be done with a weapon.

effects that augment an unarmed strike. This is for things that MODIFY or CHANGE an unarmed strike.
Examples:
Monks have a different die size with their unarmed strikes.
Brawling armor adds +2 to attack and damage to unarmed strikes.
The fighter weapon training with unarmed strikes adds attack and damage.

Ascetic Form lets you treat the weapon as an unarmed strike for CLASS abilities that are only done with unarmed strikes. So if a class ability says, this can be done with an unarmed strike, it can be done with the weapon. These are things that aren't modifying or changing the unarmed strike, but things that require you to use an unarmed strike to get the benefit. You also count as monk levels for feats that get more uses for monks.
Examples:
This means the style strikes from the Unchained Monk which can only be done with an unarmed strike.
Blood Conduit bloodrager's Spell Conduit can be done with the weapon.

Ascetic Strike gives you the Brawler’s close weapon mastery ability for your weapon. This part doesn't do anything if you already have improved unarmed strikes from your class like Monk or Sacred Fist Warpriest as the first feat covers those. So this feat is for all the other classes that don't.

This means that most of the benefit from this chain is in the first feat, especially for "Monk" classes.

The second feat is situational if you'll get any use from your class abilities, otherwise it's just getting monk levels.

The final feat does nothing for "monk" classes except let them qualify for Monastic Legacy, otherwise it's like getting the Warpriests Sacred weapon scaling damage for your weapon. Only useful if the weapon you're using has a low base damage die.


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:


We're not going to overturn how the whole games work in a 32-page soft back.

Dirty fighting is a nice patch/hack for the annoying combat expertise/unarmed strike feat taxes in addition to being pretty good on its own. Perhaps a similar patch where the feat is something you WANT to take and lets you vital strike on a charge as well? Maybe half your strength bonus or something?


Quote:
I'm obviously sorry you are disappointed. However, suggestions that change how core rules operate, such as changing Vital Strike so it works on a charge without any other player resource being spent on it, or giving every martial character weapon training as part of the base character classes, just aren;t going to happen in a Player Companion. These books are ways to contextualize the existing rules in Golarion-specific ways, and offer new campaign-specific options that work within the existing rule framework.

Its a bit early to see results from that experiment, but dirty tactics had the feat dirty fighting that's basically a nice benefit and all the "Feat taxes" rolled into one. You could do something similar and add half strength to vital strike and let you vital strike on a charge.


Chess Pwn wrote:

Ascetic style has two parts.

Apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike
as a prerequisite.
So dragon style and ferocity would boost the weapon's damage.
Stunning fist can be done with a weapon.
Vicious stomp could be done with a weapon.

effects that augment an unarmed strike. This is for things that MODIFY or CHANGE an unarmed strike.
Examples:
Monks have a different die size with their unarmed strikes.
Brawling armor adds +2 to attack and damage to unarmed strikes.
The fighter weapon training with unarmed strikes adds attack and damage.

I hadn't considered Brawling armor. Nice!

The Weapon Master's Handbook also introduces the Monk Weapon Skill (combat) trait which gives a +1 trait bonus to damage for one Monk weapon other than Unarmed Strike. It really goes well with the Ascetic Style feats. (And since a quarterstaff is a Monk weapon, it's great for a Staff Magus even without Ascetic Style.)


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I must say that I liked this supplement great deal. Out of all of the supplements dealing fighting schools are tactics this in my opinion is the best by wide margin. Close to a must have if you like martial classes and want to give them allot nice things.


Weapon Material Mastery: Elysium Bronze does not specify a duration for the effect, only that after being targeted by the effect, you cannot target that creature again for 24 hrs.

(PS. great supplement, I'd have preferred some more Sword-and-board options, but this is a very tasty morsel indeed)


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Just thought I'd chime in again with how much I love everything in this book despite my little nitpicks with it which amount to "I want even more of this stuff."

Scarab Sages

Gisher wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:

Ascetic style has two parts.

Apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike
as a prerequisite.
So dragon style and ferocity would boost the weapon's damage.
Stunning fist can be done with a weapon.
Vicious stomp could be done with a weapon.

effects that augment an unarmed strike. This is for things that MODIFY or CHANGE an unarmed strike.
Examples:
Monks have a different die size with their unarmed strikes.
Brawling armor adds +2 to attack and damage to unarmed strikes.
The fighter weapon training with unarmed strikes adds attack and damage.

I hadn't considered Brawling armor. Nice!

The Weapon Master's Handbook also introduces the Monk Weapon Skill (combat) trait which gives a +1 trait bonus to damage for one Monk weapon other than Unarmed Strike. It really goes well with the Ascetic Style feats. (And since a quarterstaff is a Monk weapon, it's great for a Staff Magus even without Ascetic Style.)

Yes, but if you had Ascetic Style, the +1 trait damage to Unarmed Strikes from Quain Martial Artist would apply to your chosen monk weapon anyway.

Scarab Sages Developer

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Obbu wrote:
Weapon Material Mastery: Elysium Bronze does not specify a duration for the effect, only that after being targeted by the effect, you cannot target that creature again for 24 hrs.

While I cannot speak to any faq or errata, I can say the idea was that it's last 1d3 rounds, as with greenwood and living steel.

Obbu wrote:
(PS. great supplement, I'd have preferred some more Sword-and-board options, but this is a very tasty morsel indeed)

We do, of course, have Armor Master's Handbook coming up. :)


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So, with Ascetic Style, could I build a rapier-flurrying Drunken Master?

Scarab Sages

Brew Bird wrote:
So, with Ascetic Style, could I build a rapier-flurrying Drunken Master?

No but you can do that already with crusader's flurry.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Aw, it only works with monk weapons, wasn't reading this thread carefully enough. Guess I'll be stuck with that cleric dip then.


What's killing me now is the number of options that are quickly becoming available to other classes that variant multiclass fighter right in there. This combined with the armor master handbook will definitely make things quite interesting.

Barbarian VMC Fighter now can deflect incoming spells as well as sunder them.

Thunderstriker fighter is incredibly effective when coupled with a greatsword and sword style. If you VMC barbarian and take defensive stance (the one that adds armor class) as a rage power, you can get some sick armor class.

In addition Myrmidarch can do great 1 handed damage with a rapier or heavy pick.

Bloodrager too can get some tremendous options by vmc fighter. Destined and Steele blood with fighter, or urban barb with fighter all have some ohenomenal options.

Has Ustalav duelist been made viable as well? I wonder...


This is a fantastic book. It gives so much love to the fighter class, and I have equally high hopes for the Armor Master's Handbook.
Two questions: first, do Gloves of Dueling boost all of the advanced training options such as Trained Grace and Trained Throw? That would make them give a +8 damage bonus at 9th level (base +2, +2 from Gloves, doubled by the advanced training option). Pretty nice, especially with Startoss Style.
Second, how do you calculate saves when using Spellcut? Using your BAB in place of your *total* save bonus, and add nothing else to the save? No ability score modifiers, resistance items, racial bonuses, feats, traits, or temporary boosts (e.g. Heroism)?

Scarab Sages

Aldizog wrote:

This is a fantastic book. It gives so much love to the fighter class, and I have equally high hopes for the Armor Master's Handbook.

Two questions: first, do Gloves of Dueling boost all of the advanced training options such as Trained Grace and Trained Throw? That would make them give a +8 damage bonus at 9th level (base +2, +2 from Gloves, doubled by the advanced training option). Pretty nice, especially with Startoss Style.

I'd rule it as +6 damage total. +2 weapon training, which gets doubled to +4, with the +2 from the gloves added after the doubling. It's still very nice.

Scarab Sages Developer

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Aldizog wrote:
how do you calculate saves when using Spellcut? Using your BAB in place of your *total* save bonus, and add nothing else to the save? No ability score modifiers, resistance items, racial bonuses, feats, traits, or temporary boosts (e.g. Heroism)?

Correct.


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Hey, for things like Gorum's Divine Fighting Technique where it says to apply the effects of vital strike what was Intended. Is it intended to be the same as using vital strike, ex. gaining the devastating strike's bonus damage and/or applying the Advanced Benefit when you charged? Or is it intended to just do something the same as vital strike but it isn't.


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I love the book, mostly stuff like Weapon Tricks, the Divine Fighting Styles or the Advance Weapon Training options which provide numerous bonus' based on pretty normal character advancement.

However stuff like the "Arm Bind" weapon trick is absolutely amazing. One of the issues with maneuver's like Sunder/Trip/Disarm and the like is that unless the campaign is built in a specific way eventually all the feats put into the choices become worthless. For example moving from fighting mooks to fighting dragons.

Arm Bind provides Disarm with sustainable use across the entirety of a characters life, however it'd be nice to see similar things for the other maneuvers. Something like Sunder being able to target natural armor or weapons or Trip being able to target winged monsters for example. In summary, it'd be nice to see more Weapon Tricks for different weapons, maybe following on from the Smashing Style line and make it hammer exclusive.

Anyway great book, hoping the ideas are carried forwards.

Scarab Sages

Chess Pwn wrote:
Hey, for things like Gorum's Divine Fighting Technique where it says to apply the effects of vital strike what was Intended. Is it intended to be the same as using vital strike, ex. gaining the devastating strike's bonus damage and/or applying the Advanced Benefit when you charged? Or is it intended to just do something the same as vital strike but it isn't.

I read that as apply the bonus damage of Vital Strike only. Not Improved/Greater Vital Strike, not Devastating Strike, not Winter/Faerie/other Druid Strike, not Furious Finish, just one extra weapon die from vital strike.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Just finished my first read through of this book. This book is absolutely FANTASTIC!

I especially love many of the new style feats and the option to give up weapon training for some amazing abilities!

Thank you SO Much for the fighter love!


Imbicatus wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
Hey, for things like Gorum's Divine Fighting Technique where it says to apply the effects of vital strike what was Intended. Is it intended to be the same as using vital strike, ex. gaining the devastating strike's bonus damage and/or applying the Advanced Benefit when you charged? Or is it intended to just do something the same as vital strike but it isn't.
I read that as apply the bonus damage of Vital Strike only. Not Improved/Greater Vital Strike, not Devastating Strike, not Winter/Faerie/other Druid Strike, not Furious Finish, just one extra weapon die from vital strike.

And when I read it I though, I get to make a vital strike at the end of a charge. Thinking that having the effect of or gain benefits of something meant you have it and it works like would normally.


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Aldizog wrote:
how do you calculate saves when using Spellcut? Using your BAB in place of your *total* save bonus, and add nothing else to the save? No ability score modifiers, resistance items, racial bonuses, feats, traits, or temporary boosts (e.g. Heroism)?
Correct.

so basically 1d20+[BAB] to a save vs magic once per turn? seems pretty great.

also, can someone explain to me Smash From The Air's 'ranged attack created by a spell effect' in more detail (or give a few examples)? i would assume it works for things like ray spells (enervation, disintegrate, etc?) since that's very specifically a ranged (touch) attack spell, but what other types would it work on?

Scarab Sages

AndIMustMask wrote:


also, can someone explain to me Smash From The Air's 'ranged attack created by a spell effect' in more detail (or give a few examples)? i would assume it works for things like ray spells (enervation, disintegrate, etc?) since that's very specifically a ranged (touch) attack spell, but what other types would it work on?

In addition to any ray, it would be any spell that requires a ranged attack roll. Snowball, Acid Arrow, Telekinesis, Mud Ball, Tar Ball, Force Hook Charge, and the like.


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Corbynsonn wrote:

I love the book, mostly stuff like Weapon Tricks, the Divine Fighting Styles or the Advance Weapon Training options which provide numerous bonus' based on pretty normal character advancement.

However stuff like the "Arm Bind" weapon trick is absolutely amazing. One of the issues with maneuver's like Sunder/Trip/Disarm and the like is that unless the campaign is built in a specific way eventually all the feats put into the choices become worthless. For example moving from fighting mooks to fighting dragons.

Arm Bind provides Disarm with sustainable use across the entirety of a characters life, however it'd be nice to see similar things for the other maneuvers. Something like Sunder being able to target natural armor or weapons or Trip being able to target winged monsters for example. In summary, it'd be nice to see more Weapon Tricks for different weapons, maybe following on from the Smashing Style line and make it hammer exclusive.

Anyway great book, hoping the ideas are carried forwards.

Thank you! I wrote that trick for that very reason, and I will be keeping an eye out for other opportunities to employ the idea.


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Gisher wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Gisher wrote:

I love the Liberating weapon special ability. It's like wearing a lesser version of a Ring of Freedom of Movement, but cheaper and without taking up a slot.

And the Sharding weapon special ability is freaking amazing for thrown weapon builds! You can sink your money into enhancing your melee weapon(s), and then also use those for ranged attacks without ever letting go of your weapon(s). Unlike a Blinkback Belt, it could be easily combined with a Belt of Mighty hurling for STR builds.

David and I both REALLY like thrown weapons and we both felt like there wasn't much support for them in the game. We actively tried to support character concepts that lacked strong options (such as me writing a sling-focused fighting style), and we both wanted to make sure that there were multiple ways of being good with thrown weapons.

So, you have the blinkback belt, which is the easiest to get of the three current options in the game, but its also the most taxing because it effectively takes away your enhancement bonus to Dex / Str. Next, you have the sharing special ability, which is REALLY cool visually and while it takes up more gold resources than the blinkback belt, it doesn't occupy any item slots. Finally, you have the Ricochet Shot weapon master feat, which costs no gold, but instead takes up a feat slot and either requires you to be a fighter or to take a feat tax.

Overall, there are several different options to achieve the same end goal with different benefits and drawbacks, and I think that's a strength for the game overall.

There have been a lot of threads bemoaning the difficulties of building thrown-weapon characters. I think you've made a lot of people very happy. I'm one. Thank you.

As writer of that section, I'm very glad you think so. Thank you! :)


Abundant Tactics - Do you select a single feat with this one, or is it any feats that have daily uses?

Cause Abundant Tactics be used in conjunction with inspiring confidence?

How would you say no to a rogue Who takes the Weapon Training talent and tries to pass that off as Weapon Training Class feature?

Can Magic Item Mastery be used to create magic items?

If you're using the Spear Dancer Style, lets say with a lance, does the back end still count as a lance or did you lose all your feats and weapon training bonuses for that end?


2h Weapon Trick - Cleaving Smash

Does this ability work with Great Cleave? And would you add Vital Strike die to all the attacks made by it?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Reviewed!


Love the new styles!

Quick question though, a lot of feats say "in addition" and have an effect that sounds passive, for example;

Ascetic Form wrote:
In addition, you are treated as a monk with a level equal to your character level for the purpose of determining the number of times per day that you can use feats with uses per day that depend upon your monk level, such as the Stunning Fist or Perfect Strike feats.
Ascetic Strike wrote:
In addition, you ignore the still mind class feature prerequisite for the Monastic Legacy feat.
Spear Dancing Spiral wrote:
In addition, you can use any feat or ability that functions with a quarterstaff with your chosen weapon.
Empty Quiver Style wrote:
In addition, you ignore the elf prerequisite for the Stabbing Shot feat. If you have the Stabbing Shot feat, you can use it with a crossbow or firearm, substituting a loaded bolt or firearm ammunition for an arrow

It feels to me like these additional effects are intended to be always active, even when not in the styles stance, is this hunch of mine correct? Can I use Stabbing Shot with my crossbow outside of stance? How about Tripping Twirl with a polearm - would I need Weapon Focus Quaterstaff or for my polearm?

I'm also excited to make an Eldritch Guardian with Abadar’s Crossbow feat and a ferret familiar, thanks for the great book!


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A qualm I have with this book is that the divine combat styles require the exact alignment instead of being within one step


Can we get some developer intent about Startoss please?

How many attacks, total, for Startoss Shower? Is it (initial attack) + (1 bounce from Comet) + (1 or more bounces from Shower), or is it (initial attack) + (1 or more bounces from Shower)?


I think that Startoss Shower is quite clear. All it does is remove the 1 extra attack restriction on Startoss Comet instead limiting the number of extra attacks to 1 + 1 per 5 points of BAB and prevents hitting the same opponent more then once per Shower. That means that a non-fighter martial taking it at 5th level has 2 extra attacks at full BAB, at +10 BAB they'll get 3 extra attacks, and so on up to 5 extra attacks at +20 BAB.

Contributor

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Chess Pwn wrote:

Can we get some developer intent about Startoss please?

How many attacks, total, for Startoss Shower? Is it (initial attack) + (1 bounce from Comet) + (1 or more bounces from Shower), or is it (initial attack) + (1 or more bounces from Shower)?

Fiercely waves a flag reading, "I don't work for Paizo so this isn't official, but this was my intent for Startoss Shower.

Startoss Comet works like Cleave while Startoss Shower works like Great Cleave. Startoss Comet allows your weapon to "bounce" to hit one other target, and Startoss Shower increases the number of "bounces" that your weapon can make to equal one + one per 5 BAB. Ergo, if you have 5 BAB, you can make up to three attacks with the feat; once against your initial target, then up to two "bounces." At 10 BAB, you can make up to two "bounces." At 15 BAB, you can make up to three "bounces." And at BAB 20, you can make up to four "bounces." Ergo, Startoss Comet should probably say "maximum number of extra attacks" instead of just "maximum number of attacks," unless Startoss Shower was changed during development (which happens).

With that said, counting the initial attack doesn't make sense given how the feat is written, because it would actually make that part of Startoss Shower do nothing for a fighter who managed to meet its minimum prerequisites at Level 4. (Since the feat has a BAB prerequisite of +4, it would actually WEAKEN the fighting style compared to Startoss Comet.) As a result, I'm almost positive that Paizo and I are on the same page for this one.

TL;DR What Henshin said above me was my original intent.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Must...Have...this...Book, But I don't have any money for it right now, so i must wait.

I'm very interested in the rules for weapons making since 1. it opens up the doors for all kinds of crazy things from other media. and 2. it might help me create some of my favorite characters from those other media(like Momiji Binboda, a poverty god from the anime 'good luck girl'. I love that arm mounted syringe weapon she has and all of her ludicrous 'Bad karma powers').


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Yes, Empty Quiver and Startoss Styles have now made this a "must own" book for me. Thanks to all those who contributed!
My son and I believe that the Player Companion line comes up with the most fun additions to this game.

Liberty's Edge

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I am really, really hoping that the rondelero swashbuckler archetype will be made PFS legal.

It exactly matches a concept for a PC I've had for a couple of years, and which I've played in PFS twice (once as a rondelero duelist fighter, once as a basic swashbuckler). Both times he was a lot of fun to roleplay, but in terms of game mechanics he was a feat-heavy, underpowered mess. I'd put the PC on the back burner as a result.

This archetype seems to fix these issues at a (falcata) stroke. Hopefully it will be made legal for PFS and I'll be able to use the free 1st-level rebuilding to play him again in the new year.


Imbicatus wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:

Ascetic style has two parts.

Apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike
as a prerequisite.
So dragon style and ferocity would boost the weapon's damage.
Stunning fist can be done with a weapon.
Vicious stomp could be done with a weapon.

effects that augment an unarmed strike. This is for things that MODIFY or CHANGE an unarmed strike.
Examples:
Monks have a different die size with their unarmed strikes.
Brawling armor adds +2 to attack and damage to unarmed strikes.
The fighter weapon training with unarmed strikes adds attack and damage.

I hadn't considered Brawling armor. Nice!

The Weapon Master's Handbook also introduces the Monk Weapon Skill (combat) trait which gives a +1 trait bonus to damage for one Monk weapon other than Unarmed Strike. It really goes well with the Ascetic Style feats. (And since a quarterstaff is a Monk weapon, it's great for a Staff Magus even without Ascetic Style.)

Yes, but if you had Ascetic Style, the +1 trait damage to Unarmed Strikes from Quain Martial Artist would apply to your chosen monk weapon anyway.

Yes, Quain Martial Artist is better if you have Ascetic Style. I never knew there were so many Monk-focused elements in Pathfinder. I feel like I am learning a whole new game.


Does swashbuckler weapon training let you qualify for the things requiring weapon training?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
oyzar wrote:
Does swashbuckler weapon training let you qualify for the things requiring weapon training?

No; it's a different class feature.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I am very confused about the dual strike ability of the two-weapon trick. It requires improved vital strike as a pre-requisite.

The goal of dual strike (as far as I can tell) is to gain more damage from the single standard action when you're unable to TWF effectively with a full attack action.

However, improved vital strike provides the same function. So why have the pre-requisite that gives the same functionality as the ability gained? It seams like a large feat tax for no benefit (as you'll need both vital strike and improved vital strike).

Unless the two attacks from dual strike can be combined with improved vital strike. But it doesn't look like they can.

Can someone (possibly the feat designer) shed some light on why the pre-requisite is required or if I've missed a vital point?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Mythraine wrote:

I am very confused about the dual strike ability of the two-weapon trick. It requires improved vital strike as a pre-requisite.

The goal of dual strike (as far as I can tell) is to gain more damage from the single standard action when you're unable to TWF effectively with a full attack action.

However, improved vital strike provides the same function. So why have the pre-requisite that gives the same functionality as the ability gained? It seams like a large feat tax for no benefit (as you'll need both vital strike and improved vital strike).

Improved Vital Strike still only adds your damage modifiers (Strength, enhancement bonus, etc.) once. Dual strike lets you add all of those modifiers to each attack. It's a definite improvement.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Does anything in Startoss Style actually prevent you from gaining the damage bonus on melee attacks with weapons in the thrown weapon group?

Contributor

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Shisumo wrote:
Does anything in Startoss Style actually prevent you from gaining the damage bonus on melee attacks with weapons in the thrown weapon group?

Nope.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
Does anything in Startoss Style actually prevent you from gaining the damage bonus on melee attacks with weapons in the thrown weapon group?
Nope.

??

!!

:)

Contributor

7 people marked this as a favorite.
Gisher wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
Does anything in Startoss Style actually prevent you from gaining the damage bonus on melee attacks with weapons in the thrown weapon group?
Nope.

??

!!

:)

At some point, people are going to realize that a good tenth of my turnover to Owen (including Startoss Style) only exists because I wanted my flying blade swashbuckler, dagger master fighter to be remotely viable. ;-)

[mountsoapbox]
As a game designer, I HATE when effects that augment a weapon only apply to one specific use of that weapon, so I made sure to make the feat read in a way that it didn't completely mess up people who use daggers, chakrams, starknives, THE HALFLIG SLINGSTAFF, and similar weapons because the fact that those weapons can be used both ways should be a neat feature of fighting with that weapon, not something that you're forced to hyperspecialize out of.
[/dismountsoapbox]

But keep in mind that I'm not a Paizo developer or designer, and my design goals are second to Paizo's.

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