Pathfinder Player Companion: Weapon Master's Handbook (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Player Companion: Weapon Master's Handbook (PFRPG)
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Don't just hack and slash like a fresh recruit! Rise above the rank and file to become a true artist of combat with the secrets found within Pathfinder Player Companion: Weapon Master's Handbook! Emulate the fighting style of your patron deity, learn to use your weapons in tricky new ways, or simply enchant your boring old sword with new and exciting magical abilities. Whether you want to perfect the use of a single weapon, become an expert on a whole group of them, or dedicate yourself to a specific fighting style, this player-friendly volume contains everything you need!

Inside this book, you'll find:

  • Weapon style feats giving characters focusing on one type of weapon or weapon combination new options unavailable to less specialized combatants.
  • Advanced weapon mastery options that let specialized fighters continue to improve with their chosen weapons, even at higher levels.
  • Magic item mastery, which pits a character's martial spirit against the essential nature of their magic items, resulting in radically different magic effects.
  • An expansion of the combat trick and stamina system introduced in Pathfinder RPG Pathfinder Unchained to cover combat feats from several Pathfinder Campaign Setting sourcebooks.
  • A weapon design system that allows Game Masters to let their imaginations run wild, adding almost any conceivable weapon to their campaigns.

This Pathfinder Player Companion is intended for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and the Pathfinder campaign setting, but can easily be incorporated into any fantasy world.

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-796-3

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Player Companion Subscription.

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Amazing for Fighters

5/5

This book started it all for Fighters in 2106. Finally, the class gets options that lift it from bottom of the barrel.

Combine whats in this book with the combat stamina system from pathfinder unchained, get the armor master handbook and magic tactics toolbox, google "Iron Caster", and enjoy playing fighters that are amazing.


So nice I bought it twice

5/5

I bought this book from my local game store some time ago and just now bought the PDF so I could have a copy on my tablet. This is, in my opinion, probably one of the best books Paizo has put out including other product lines such as the Core books and APs. It's chock full of interesting options for martial characters, especially the Fighter. The Fighter, which has traditionally been the most boring class in the game, got elevated to one of my favorite classes to tinker with thanks to this book alone. Not everything's a hit, like the weapon creation rules which are kind of funky and seem more like a tool to powergame weapon groups in weird ways, but they're minor enough issues or just not bad enough to detract from the book as a whole.

Absolutely pick this book up, if for no other reason than to support this kind of content in the future.


This book unchains the fighter

5/5

The fighter has needed some love for a long time.

You have a plethora of worthwhile options to build the fighter you want to. Some things i love. You ever watch a movie and your hero does some neat trick like blind the bad guy by pulling his helmet over his eyes while stabbing someone else, this book legalizes this! There are bunch of trick options to give you legal ways to do neat things in combat.

They have some combat styles that definitely have their niche. More feats for throwing weapons that are long over due, and they are very potent. Almost essential for someone relying on thrown weapons.

They have ways for warrior types to use magical items in ways not intended. Now I do not see this fitting a weapon master thing to use my incredible health to force a goblin fire drum to make me fly! There issue with this, but it is neat if not out of place. I would have used cha for this ability option.

This was a great book done well. Anyone that like variety in their fighters this is a must buy. Great job Paizo!


When all you have is a hammer, SMASH SMASH SMASH

5/5

Have you ever wanted to ricochet a hammer across the skulls of 3 orcs? Are you intrigued by the idea of lockpicking with a crossbow? Do you ever just want to punch a disintegration ray out of your way with a gauntlet while smugly proclaiming "Not today, buddy!" All this, plus more is possible in the Weapon Master's Handbook. Paizo is pushing the limits of what martial characters can achieve in the Pathfinder ruleset, and I freaking love every bit of it.

Highlights from the book include:

Alternate bonuses fighters can take at each tier of weapon mastery, such as adding bravery to all will saves, applying weapon finesse to any weapon group, proficiency with all exotic weapons, replacing skill requirements with BAB, and more.

New style feats. Who says they have to be restricted to monks? These include a style that specializes in whacking people with bows/guns, one that specializes in 5-foot steps and lunges, and a style that turns spears into double weapons.

Butt loads of other feats. What I love about them is just how usable they are. In Ultimate Combat, maybe 10-25% of the feats seemed usable, but in here, I can find uses and potential build ideas for most of the ones in this book. Some of my favorites are Spellcut (substitute base saves with BAB against magic), Smash from the Air (knock away magic attacks and freaking boulders), and Cayden Cailean's Blade and Tankard, which specializes in using a tankard as an off-hand weapon!

The only potential downside I can see to this book, is that a lot of the features are specific to fighters, or require weapon mastery as a class feature to qualify. That being said, I was disappointed by their lack of inclusion in Pathfinder Unchained, so I feel they were overdue for some love.

I really hope Paizo continues in this direction for fun, flavorful, and most importantly, useful combat options. This is probably my favorite player companion of all time, and I can't wait to try out all these new builds swimming around in my head.


I iz martial, can I haz nice things?

5/5

A book on martials, in particular Fighters, getting cool things. Like flying without having to rely upon a spellcaster. Or getting more out-of-combat options, which you likely did not expect from a book like this. Excellent, well-thought, innovative material.

The new direction of Player Companions under Owen is excellent. If Armor Master Handbook will be half as good... my only gripe will be that these too should be put together into a hardcover.


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Liberty's Edge

I'm looking for some guidance on the Rondelero Swashbuckler - does the proficiency from Falcata Emphasis count as Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Falcata) for the purpose of qualifying for feats?

Weapon Master's Handbook wrote:
Falcata Emphasis (Ex): At 1st level, a rondelero swashbuckler is proficient with falcatas and can...
Inner Sea World Guide wrote:

Taldan Duelist (Combat)

You trained at one of Taldor’s elite fighting schools and are
skilled at rondelero, the art of fighting with the falcata and buckler.
Prerequisite: Dex 13, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (falcata),
Shield Proficiency (buckler), Weapon Focus (falcata).

By any reasonable interpretation it should work, but I just want to check I'm not missing some relevant ruling from elsewhere...

Silver Crusade

Paz wrote:

I'm looking for some guidance on the Rondelero Swashbuckler - does the proficiency from Falcata Emphasis count as Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Falcata) for the purpose of qualifying for feats?

Weapon Master's Handbook wrote:
Falcata Emphasis (Ex): At 1st level, a rondelero swashbuckler is proficient with falcatas and can...
Inner Sea World Guide wrote:

Taldan Duelist (Combat)

You trained at one of Taldor’s elite fighting schools and are
skilled at rondelero, the art of fighting with the falcata and buckler.
Prerequisite: Dex 13, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (falcata),
Shield Proficiency (buckler), Weapon Focus (falcata).
By any reasonable interpretation it should work, but I just want to check I'm not missing some relevant ruling from elsewhere...

I am also interested in the answer to this.

Scarab Sages

Yes. If you are proficient in Falcatas, you are proficient in Falcatas, and can qualify for any feat that requires proficiency. If not, you wouldn't be able to take weapon focus with them either.

Liberty's Edge

Actually, thinking about it a bit more, it isn't as ambiguous as I thought, and we make just that assumption all the time.

PRD wrote:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Monks are proficient with the club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shortspear, short sword, shuriken, siangham, sling, and spear.
PRD wrote:

Rapid Reload (Combat)

Choose a type of crossbow (hand, light, or heavy). You can reload such weapons quickly.
Prerequisite: Weapon Proficiency (crossbow type chosen).

Nobody would argue that a monk couldn't take Rapid Reload (light crossbow), would they?

EDIT: Thanks to ninja Imbicatus for making the case stronger!


I think this book went to print too early. I expect a couple of hundred clarification/FAQ threads and errata on this.

It seems to me that this is a new toybox with no consideration for balancing the material with what's come before. It's a 'splatbook' in exactly the bad sense of the 3.0 splatbooks. Stuff in here - if incorporated into your game - so far overshadows core features that it becomes 'must have'; essentially >the< litmus test of broken.

The "rule of cool" is one thing. But how about we keep a measure of balance in the game?

I think there is some good material in here, but in multiple places the execution is IMO lousy.
There is no visible attempt to keep it even in balance with itself, let alone core rules.

You may justifiably argue that martial classes need a boost, but e.g. cutting all missiles, boulders and attack-roll spells out of the air for a mere attack of opportunity isn't ever making it to my table.
Nor are gunslinger targeted shots with whatever weapon you like.
Nor indeed are multiple readied attacks in one round, or a saving throw penalty for hitting with an attack. And no, no Vorpal-equivalent ranged weapons.

The first rule of fight-club should be you do NOT mess with the action economy. The next should be 'saving throws and melee attacks are NOT equal'(ahem, Hindering Shot).

This could have been great. Now I have to rule stuff in or out on a case-by-case basis. Seriously disappointed.

The Exchange

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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Tobex wrote:

I think this book went to print too early. I expect a couple of hundred clarification/FAQ threads and errata on this.

It seems to me that this is a new toybox with no consideration for balancing the material with what's come before. It's a 'splatbook' in exactly the bad sense of the 3.0 splatbooks. Stuff in here - if incorporated into your game - so far overshadows core features that it becomes 'must have'; essentially >the< litmus test of broken.

The "rule of cool" is one thing. But how about we keep a measure of balance in the game?

I think there is some good material in here, but in multiple places the execution is IMO lousy.
There is no visible attempt to keep it even in balance with itself, let alone core rules.

You may justifiably argue that martial classes need a boost, but e.g. cutting all missiles, boulders and attack-roll spells out of the air for a mere attack of opportunity isn't ever making it to my table.
Nor are gunslinger targeted shots with whatever weapon you like.
Nor indeed are multiple readied attacks in one round, or a saving throw penalty for hitting with an attack. And no, no Vorpal-equivalent ranged weapons.

The first rule of fight-club should be you do NOT mess with the action economy. The next should be 'saving throws and melee attacks are NOT equal'(ahem, Hindering Shot).

This could have been great. Now I have to rule stuff in or out on a case-by-case basis. Seriously disappointed.

Hindering shot is 5feats, a high BAB, a readied action, and a successful attack roll that must get through any concealment, mirror images, deflect arrows...Good for them If it ever does anything.

Casters have messed with action economy since core. Summons, animal companions, dominated/controlled enemies, quickened spells, familiars with wands, contingency, day long buffs from low spell slots....


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I like this book and many of the feats.

There´s one mistake in a feat from Mr. Augunas he himself called out that probably happened referring to similar language in other feats etc before there was a certain errata.
I don´t think that "mistake" is even that bad, makes it a bit stronger, but that´s ok. Still in range.
As for the other stuff, it´s really high feat investments, so only classes with lots of feats are likely to go there, like the fighter.
People have been calling for fighter buffs since eternity, now it´s here.
Wanna complain about that?

Just compare things to a CRB barbarian, wizard or druid.
Those are still stronger and more versatile.
Then there are classes like warpriest, alchemist, gunslinger, who all have extra rules and break action and other economies already, but that´s ok in most people´s books.
Or the bloodrager....

Things in here are flavorfull and easy to put to use.
I really dig the stuff i can use with a monk most though.

Contributor

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Hayato Ken wrote:

As for the other stuff, it´s really high feat investments, so only classes with lots of feats are likely to go there, like the fighter.

People have been calling for fighter buffs since eternity, now it´s here.
Wanna complain about that?

I got the impression that Tobex doesn't like martials being able to do fantastic things without the use of magic.

If a "martial vs. caster discrepancy" exist, it has nothing to do with mechanics and everything to do with what different camps of players, GMs, and designers feel martials should be able to do without the use of magic.

Personally, I get a kick out of stuff like One-Punch Man and the like; martials with such an insane amount of skill that it surpasses everything that people can do with real-world martial abilities. There are people (like Tobex, I'm presuming) who don't like that.

The problem, however, is that martial options quickly get repetitive and boring if we don't lighten up and give them access to the fantastic every once and a while. We ignore so many laws of physics in other places (such as how the heck dragons can remain aloft or how a giant's manages to stay alive despite exceeding the surface area to volume limits of a humanoid body), that it isn't fair to force one small subset of the game to perfectly adhere to what is realistic while the rest of the game reveals in fantasy.

At least, that was my design philosophy for my work on this book.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:
At least, that was my design philosophy for my work on this book.

And most of us, at least, very much appreciate that.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I can totally understand the notion of people not wanting manga/anime/comic/superhero stuff in their fantasy game, especially since some of those things are far out on the ridiculous slapstick side.

However i don´t feel the contents of this book go to that place.
Indeed interesting variety is provided.
Ascetic style for example is very interesting and makes it possible to bring on different kinds of monks and a lot of variety.
Shuriken Monk yippie! Finaly!

We don´t even need to speculate about martial/caster disparity here. Options provided in this book give classes which long needed them some more color.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Tobex wrote:

I think this book went to print too early. I expect a couple of hundred clarification/FAQ threads and errata on this.

It seems to me that this is a new toybox with no consideration for balancing the material with what's come before. It's a 'splatbook' in exactly the bad sense of the 3.0 splatbooks. Stuff in here - if incorporated into your game - so far overshadows core features that it becomes 'must have'; essentially >the< litmus test of broken.

The "rule of cool" is one thing. But how about we keep a measure of balance in the game?

I think there is some good material in here, but in multiple places the execution is IMO lousy.
There is no visible attempt to keep it even in balance with itself, let alone core rules.

You may justifiably argue that martial classes need a boost, but e.g. cutting all missiles, boulders and attack-roll spells out of the air for a mere attack of opportunity isn't ever making it to my table.
Nor are gunslinger targeted shots with whatever weapon you like.
Nor indeed are multiple readied attacks in one round, or a saving throw penalty for hitting with an attack. And no, no Vorpal-equivalent ranged weapons.

The first rule of fight-club should be you do NOT mess with the action economy. The next should be 'saving throws and melee attacks are NOT equal'(ahem, Hindering Shot).

This could have been great. Now I have to rule stuff in or out on a case-by-case basis. Seriously disappointed.

Look! The fighter can cut missiles out of the air!

Except nobody is shooting missiles at him today, so it's a wasted feat.

Look, the fighter can cut boulders out of the air today!
Except nobody's tossing boulders at him right now, either. Another wasted feat.

Look, he can cut attack-roll spells out of the air, except the spellcasters aren't using rays and spiritual hammers, they're going after his poor Will and Reflex saves with Dominates and Empowered Energized Fireballs, so it's a wasted feat.

Huh, 30% of his class bonus wasted because he's not fighting the right kind of opponent. Wish spellcasters were permanently penalized like that.

==Aelryinth


Aelryrinth,

That's what retraining and down time is for.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Oh, but two days a year, he knows he's going to be fighting giants and could use that ability to dodge boulders.

Pity he can't retrain his feats in and out every day like spells, eh? Guess he'll either have to suck 363 days a year or live without boulder-cutting.

Strange how that works. Whereas the wizard can just memorize wind wall, or something.

==Aelryinth

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Aelryrinth,

That's what retraining and down time is for.

Seriously? You're saying that

"OK guys, we're facing rock throwing giants, I'm gonna take ask the GM if he allows Ultimate Campaign retraining rules so that I can retrain a feat at the Holy Shrine of Martial Swordsmanship 500 miles to the west"

equals

"OK guys, we're facing rock throwing giants, I'm gonna pop the rope trick and memorize protection from arrows for everyone except me, because I'm kind of covered with mirror image"

?


Gorbacz,

I say a lot of things. Some times equality isn't of them.

Aelryinth,

That's why you take Brawler. :p :)


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Aelryrinth,

That's what retraining and down time is for.

Barroom Brawler, too.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Brawler's 'borrowing' feats last only minutes. You're assaulting the steading of the Hill Giant Chief. You need it up all the time.

Or maybe it's a hit and run fight with hill giants out in the woods, tossing boulders from down wind.

Being able to grab the feat(s) 1-3 times a day isn't going to cut it. When you need it, you need it now, and not a few minutes ago. :P

So, I got no problem with those feats. Huge investment, as a defense highly situational and wasted unless they are getting attacked that way.

So, total disagreement with him. That's all.

==Aelryinth


Aelryinth,

I don't expect people to agree me.

Keeping closer to the topic at hand:

Weapon Master's Handbook question:

If I have a fighter that takes Weapon Mastery stuff, can he still get Weapon Mastery later on?

Liberty's Edge

Eh. Getting attacked by missiles isn't precisely uncommon, which makes Cut From The Air a very solid investment. It's almost as expansive in use as the defensive aspect of Opportune Parry and Riposte, and cheaper to use.

Smash From The Air is much more niche...but does apply to both oversized projectiles and spells with an attack roll. So hitting that level of defense is only two Feats, not three. And it's useful against two niche categories of threat, not one, so that's something. I probably wouldn't take it except in Giantslayer or the like, but it's not actively bad.

Spellcut, which doesn't require Smash From The Air, by the way, is a whole different kettle of fish, functions completely differently mechanically, and is actually not a bad way to shore up a particularly low Save...but again, whole different kettle of fish.

Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.

This is probably a better conversation for a thread devoted to those feats, rather than the product page for the Weapon Master's Handbook. :D


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Tobex's games are the ones people probably never bother making martial characters. I know I wouldn't want to.


Feats? What feats?


Alexander Augunas wrote:
This is probably a better conversation for a thread devoted to those feats, rather than the product page for the Weapon Master's Handbook. :D

Indeed! Quit cluttering up the product discussion threads with such debates.

Thank you.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Bummer I missed that last line of Startoss Style first time I read it. That not being able to use it if wielding a weapon in the offhand is a real mood killer. Poor starknife dual wielders need not apply.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Thomas Seitz wrote:
Feats? What feats?

1) yes, you can choose to take wepon mastery at a later time if you swap out this time.

2) Advanced weopon training is a feat you take which gives you the weopon training benefits. Thus, all weapon training skills are also feats.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

can a Rondelero Swashbuckler use slashing grace? I mean does the buckler 'occupy the hand'? If so it seems a twf focused archetype would suffer.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Eh. Getting attacked by missiles isn't precisely uncommon, which makes Cut From The Air a very solid investment. It's almost as expansive in use as the defensive aspect of Opportune Parry and Riposte, and cheaper to use.

And it's not just ranged attacks against you, it's against adjacent allies as well!

I'll agree that Smash from the Air is much more niche, but I feel almost obligated to take it, just so I can say I suplexed a boulder away from my buddy.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Rob Godfrey wrote:
can a Rondelero Swashbuckler use slashing grace? I mean does the buckler 'occupy the hand'? If so it seems a twf focused archetype would suffer.

Bucklers do not, in fact, "occupy the hand" for the purposes of Slashing Grace.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Shisumo wrote:
Rob Godfrey wrote:
can a Rondelero Swashbuckler use slashing grace? I mean does the buckler 'occupy the hand'? If so it seems a twf focused archetype would suffer.
Bucklers do not, in fact, "occupy the hand" for the purposes of Slashing Grace.

thanks, herolab seems to think it does :p


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
I just got the Weapon master handbook, it's awesome, but the Rondelero Flexibility ability has me really confused. The Rondelero fighter archetype has a very similar ability, minus the keeping buckler AC, but I feel it's been "established" that the ability doesn't actually DO anything, since you can already alternate between weapons and not take 2WF penalties. BUT since the ability was printing again I am super curious if it's actually supposed to mean anything. Or does the fighter's really do nothing and the swashbuckler's really just saves you a feat to keep ac? Does anyone know more about this?

So, obviously when developing a Player Companion, I can't go back and adjust the wording of other books already in print. And of the thousands of people who will buy and use this book, not all of them are part of online discussions. So I want to make sucre it's clear to people who have already put the Rondelero fighter archetype into their games that this class can do the same thing. The fear is if we *don't* mention that, there will be people who see the absence as meaning the new archetype can't do it. And if some new FAQ or official rules change comes along (which I have no reason to think will happen, but like to be prepared for), the two Rondelero will continue to operate in the same way.

However the swashbuckler ability DOES do something, since it allows you to shield bash witch a buckler without losing the AC from the buckler, and that's a nice ability if not overwhelming. For one thing it means you can attack a foe hit with a full attack action, hit, roll damage, discover the foe has DR 10/bludgeoning, and swap to your buckler for your second attack without fear of weakening your defenses.

Based on the wording of Rondelero Flexibility

Rondelero Flexibility (EX):
At 6th level, as a full-attack

action, a rondelero swashbuckler wielding a falcata in one
hand and a buckler in the other can alternate between
using his falcata and his buckler for each attack. This does
not grant additional attacks or incur penalties as two weapon
fighting does, and does not cause her to lose his
Armor Class bonus from her buckler.

and the wording of Two-Weapon Fighting

Two-Weapon Fighting:
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light.

Could you take two weapon fighting with the Rondelero Swashbuckler archetype (or the Rondelero Duelist Archetype since the wordings are the same) and simply make every attack with the falcata (or the buckler if need be)? Flexibility (and Strong Swing) both simply say that you can alternate between using the falcata or the buckler for each attack and TWF grants you an extra attack that normally needs to be with the off-hand, but is still just an attack. I would assume that if this were the case, then you would take TWF penalties as if each of your weapons was one-handed instead of using the light weapon penalties as if you were actually using the buckler.

Scarab Sages

Rob Godfrey wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
Rob Godfrey wrote:
can a Rondelero Swashbuckler use slashing grace? I mean does the buckler 'occupy the hand'? If so it seems a twf focused archetype would suffer.
Bucklers do not, in fact, "occupy the hand" for the purposes of Slashing Grace.

thanks, herolab seems to think it does :p

Are you using a Darkwood Buckler? Because that is actually a light shield, not a buckler.

Either way, Hero Lab is not a rules source.

Scarab Sages

kurohyou wrote:


Based on the wording of Rondelero Flexibility ** spoiler omitted **...

Could you take two weapon fighting with the Rondelero Swashbuckler archetype (or the Rondelero Duelist Archetype since the wordings are the same) and simply make every attack with the falcata (or the buckler if need be)? Flexibility (and Strong Swing) both simply say that you can alternate between using the falcata or the buckler for each attack and TWF grants you an extra attack that normally needs to be with the off-hand, but is still just an attack. I would assume that if this were the case, then you would take TWF penalties as if each of your weapons was one-handed instead of using the light weapon penalties as if you were actually using the buckler.

No, Rondelero Flexibility is used as it's own special Full Attack action, and to use Two Weapon Fighting, you have to use a normal Full Attack action. You can't combine the two.

Liberty's Edge

Rob Godfrey wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
Rob Godfrey wrote:
can a Rondelero Swashbuckler use slashing grace? I mean does the buckler 'occupy the hand'? If so it seems a twf focused archetype would suffer.
Bucklers do not, in fact, "occupy the hand" for the purposes of Slashing Grace.

thanks, herolab seems to think it does :p

I reported that bug when I noticed it a couple of weeks ago, and got confirmation earlier this week that it will be fixed in the next release.


Speaking of Hero Lab I noticed something when trying to build a character with Swordplay Style.
Hero Lab currently doesn't like Swordplay Style being activated with just Combat Expertise. Needs to be fighting defensively or total defense first in order to get the shield bonus.

Swordplay Style wrote:
While using this style, wielding the chosen weapon, and fighting defensively or using either the total defense action or the Combat Expertise feat, you gain a +1 shield bonus to your Armor Class.

The wording is kinda confusing with the "either" when referring to total defense or Combat Expertise but not to fighting defensively.

Would I get the shield bonus if just using Combat Expertise?


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Imbicatus wrote:
No, Rondelero Flexibility is used as it's own special Full Attack action, and to use Two Weapon Fighting, you have to use a normal Full Attack action. You can't combine the two.

The two-weapon fighting section of the PRD actually doesn't mention full-attack anywhere in the description. It just says you can get one extra attack per round with your off-hand weapon. I agree that even though it doesn't mention a full-attack action, TWF requires you to do a full-attack, but I don't agree that rondelero flexibility prevents you from utilizing TWF in a full-attack.

From the PRD:

Full Attack:

If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.

The only movement you can take during a full attack is a 5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks.

If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first.

So TWF is included in the basic full attack description in the rules. Rondelero Flexibility shouldn't negate part of this rule and leave the rest intact. Assuming that that is true, then either the attacks in TWF must be fair game for the Rondelero Flexibility's alternating use of Falcata/Buckler or Rondelero Flexibility must have a different definition of a full attack action, an attack, or both.

This is of course just my opinion based on the language in the applicable feats, class features, and rules.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
In regards to Ascetic Style allowing magical items to affect weapons Alexander Augunas wrote:
GM Aram Zey wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

You'd get a situation like a bow and arrow. The net is going to be a +15 set of weapons...but the combined cost will be, what, 700k?

However, an interesting way to help keep the cost of wielding two weapons down by spreading the cost across the amulet as well.

==Aelryinth

I'm mainly asking because there appears to be some doubt as to whether or not this was intended.

As the guy who wrote it, it was not.

Until an Owen answer or an official Paizo FAQ happens (both of which supersede me), my suggestion would be to treat it like a magical bow and ammunition; enhancement bonuses don't stack, but special abilities would. Considering that the amulet of mighty fists is in general more expensive than the bow, this should be a relatively balanced way to handle it.

With that said, I would NOT allow the style feat to transfer enhancement bonuses, as that was NOT my intention. It was designed to work on class abilities and feats, not magic weapon bonuses.

I bring this up because this would seem to indicate that only effects from feats were intended to be applied. Would this include things like weapon finesse that have an effect on attacks with unarmed strikes, but do not actually call out unarmed strikes as what they have an effect on? Would this allow a monk to apply their increased unarmed damage die to a weapon without any further feats in the chain?

Contributor

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Protoman wrote:

Speaking of Hero Lab I noticed something when trying to build a character with Swordplay Style.

Hero Lab currently doesn't like Swordplay Style being activated with just Combat Expertise. Needs to be fighting defensively or total defense first in order to get the shield bonus.

Swordplay Style wrote:
While using this style, wielding the chosen weapon, and fighting defensively or using either the total defense action or the Combat Expertise feat, you gain a +1 shield bonus to your Armor Class.

The wording is kinda confusing with the "either" when referring to total defense or Combat Expertise but not to fighting defensively.

Would I get the shield bonus if just using Combat Expertise?

Yes.

The reason you're confused because in game lingo, you "use" a feat and you "use" an action (i.e. total defense action), but you don't "use" fighting defensively. You just fight defensively.

So basically, the feat says "fighting defensively" OR "Combat Expertise" OR "total defense action."


Arsenal Chaplain question:

they replace Channel Energy with Weapon Training (weapons with which the warpriest has taken Weapon Focus).

Do they only get Weapon Training at 5th level and no further progression?

or Does it use the Fighter Weapon Training progression?
ie:
5th Weapon Training
9th Weapon Training or Advanced
13th Weapon Training
17th Weapon Training

I am assuming that Weapon Mastery 20th is separate from Weapon Training.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
WabbitHuntr wrote:

Arsenal Chaplain question:

they replace Channel Energy with Weapon Training (weapons with which the warpriest has taken Weapon Focus).

Do they only get Weapon Training at 5th level and no further progression?

or Does it use the Fighter Weapon Training progression?
ie:
5th Weapon Training
9th Weapon Training or Advanced
13th Weapon Training
17th Weapon Training

I am assuming that Weapon Mastery 20th is separate from Weapon Training.

I read it as "you get weapon training as the fighter, including the advancing bonus, but instead of weapon groups, it only applies to weapons with which the warpriest has taken Weapon Focus".

This interpretation means that you wouldn't automatically get the opportunity to trade out weapon groups for Advanced Weapon Training, although you could presumably take the feat with your warpriest bonus feats.


If the Arsenal Champion has Weapon Focus in 2handed sword(with Weapon Training) and Longbow

then if his Weapon Training does advance like a Fighter at 9th he would have the choice of gaining Advanced Weapon Training(2handed Sword) or Weapon Training (LongBow)

There seem to be a couple of ways to interpret it.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
WabbitHuntr wrote:

If the Arsenal Champion has Weapon Focus in 2handed sword(with Weapon Training) and Longbow

then if his Weapon Training does advance like a Fighter at 9th he would have the choice of gaining Advanced Weapon Training(2handed Sword) or LongBow

It's not clear to me

The way I read it:

At 5th level, when he gains the ability, he gets a +1 bonus to attack and damage with both greatswords and longbows. At 9th level, this bonus increases to +2; no other choices are made. If he takes Weapon Focus (dagger) at some point, his attacks with daggers now gain the bonus as well.


Yeah I see how you can read it like that. LOL another possible interpretation.

Scarab Sages Developer

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Kalindlara wrote:
WabbitHuntr wrote:

If the Arsenal Champion has Weapon Focus in 2handed sword(with Weapon Training) and Longbow

then if his Weapon Training does advance like a Fighter at 9th he would have the choice of gaining Advanced Weapon Training(2handed Sword) or LongBow

It's not clear to me

The way I read it:

At 5th level, when he gains the ability, he gets a +1 bonus to attack and damage with both greatswords and longbows. At 9th level, this bonus increases to +2; no other choices are made. If he takes Weapon Focus (dagger) at some point, his attacks with daggers now gain the bonus as well.

This is the intent.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Thank you for the clarification! ^_^


Thank you. Bookmarking this for the inevitable questions when I use this archetype. Hopefully I get a chance to play one soon


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
WabbitHuntr wrote:

If the Arsenal Champion has Weapon Focus in 2handed sword(with Weapon Training) and Longbow

then if his Weapon Training does advance like a Fighter at 9th he would have the choice of gaining Advanced Weapon Training(2handed Sword) or LongBow

It's not clear to me

The way I read it:

At 5th level, when he gains the ability, he gets a +1 bonus to attack and damage with both greatswords and longbows. At 9th level, this bonus increases to +2; no other choices are made. If he takes Weapon Focus (dagger) at some point, his attacks with daggers now gain the bonus as well.

This is the intent.

Wait wait wait wait wait. It advances just like the Fighter? I thought it just got the first bit of it. Since it doesn't get more weapon groups, does that mean it doesn't qualify for advanced weapon training without the feat? That's what I thought previously, but I'm just clarifying.

P.S. This archetype is way better than I thought, and I was even kind of liking it beforehand.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

@AlexAugunas:

Question about Ascetic Style as described on your blog for better rules understanding. You wrote "augmented by any feat" instead of "any effect".
Now under effect, there are several spells out there which would affect IUS and then be applied to weapons eventually. I think i can see how that would be "very good". AoMF added in, even better.
The feat version is still good i think, seeing how jabbing style or any other style could now be applied to weapons.
My question is, how would a trait be treated there? As a feat or effect? I would tend to say feat, but Quain Martial Artist would be very good that way.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Lanitril wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
WabbitHuntr wrote:

If the Arsenal Champion has Weapon Focus in 2handed sword(with Weapon Training) and Longbow

then if his Weapon Training does advance like a Fighter at 9th he would have the choice of gaining Advanced Weapon Training(2handed Sword) or LongBow

It's not clear to me

The way I read it:

At 5th level, when he gains the ability, he gets a +1 bonus to attack and damage with both greatswords and longbows. At 9th level, this bonus increases to +2; no other choices are made. If he takes Weapon Focus (dagger) at some point, his attacks with daggers now gain the bonus as well.

This is the intent.

Wait wait wait wait wait. It advances just like the Fighter? I thought it just got the first bit of it. Since it doesn't get more weapon groups, does that mean it doesn't qualify for advanced weapon training without the feat? That's what I thought previously, but I'm just clarifying.

P.S. This archetype is way better than I thought, and I was even kind of liking it beforehand.

As I mentioned earlier, my belief is that you would not naturally get to choose AWT options, since the additional weapon groups are cut out. However, since you have a fighter level for warpriest bonus feats and the weapon training class feature, you may select the feat via warpriest bonus feats. If you somehow have a fighter level of 5 (such as via multiclassing) you can select the feat normally.

Again, that's my interpretation; we'll see if I can go two for two on these. ^_^


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Hayato Ken wrote:

@AlexAugunas:

Question about Ascetic Style as described on your blog for better rules understanding. You wrote "augmented by any feat" instead of "any effect".
Now under effect, there are several spells out there which would affect IUS and then be applied to weapons eventually. I think i can see how that would be "very good". AoMF added in, even better.
The feat version is still good i think, seeing how jabbing style or any other style could now be applied to weapons.
My question is, how would a trait be treated there? As a feat or effect? I would tend to say feat, but Quain Martial Artist would be very good that way.

I'd be very interested in this as well as we've come to an impasse in a discussion about it over in the Rules messageboards. The basic question in that thread is do effects that affect unarmed strike because of some other property of unarmed strikes, like the fact that they are light weapons, also transfer with ascetic style or is it only effects that specifically affect unarmed strikes. So basically do both "+2 to unarmed strike damage" and "+2 to light weapon damage" get applied to the chosen weapon, or is it just the "+2 to unarmed strikes" that can be applied?

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