Keep your eyes on the blog because we are about to see about 10 spoilers (5 for the 3.5k mark and 5 for getting 2nd place or higher) and the reveal of the archetype list! :)
Jason said he'd put the teasers up tomorrow when he gets into the office.
Keep your eyes on the blog because we are about to see about 10 spoilers (5 for the 3.5k mark and 5 for getting 2nd place or higher) and the reveal of the archetype list! :)Jason said he'd put the teasers up tomorrow when he gets into the office.
While nursing his bruise from the gauntlet punch. :) LOL.
come on swashbuckly mobility abilities...
So, Bloodrager and Swashbuckler vs. an incorporeal undead dragon? I hope the Bloodrager is well equipped, because the Swashbuckler will do absolutely nothing against that type of monster. ^^
Female half-elf Swashbuckler is looking swell, though.
Why wouldn't a swashbucklers magic weapon be as effective as another?
Yeah, normal damage will go through, but the Swashbuckler relies on precision damage for a lot of her damage potential. Which won't work against an incorporeal undead, at least if the writers kept it like that from the playtest.
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Why wouldn't a swashbucklers magic weapon be as effective as another?
Some people argue precision damage from Precise Strike doesn't apply against incorporeal creatures. That's...not entirely clear per RAW, but people certainly argue it.
EDIT: Ninja'd.
EDIT 2: I was thinking of something else, actually. Incorporeal indisputably stops precision damage...but only if you lack Ghost Touch. A very good investment for a swashbuckler.
At least the ghost touch property allows you to crit incorporeal creatures.
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Yeah, normal damage will go through, but the Swashbuckler relies on precision damage for a lot of her damage potential. Which won't work against an incorporeal undead, at least if the writers kept it like that from the playtest.
I hate when good artwork gets in the way of my rpg mechanics.
Eh, just saying it's a bad day for that Swashbuckler. The same could be said for Feiya and Damien on the APG cover. :p
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I dunno. She kinda has that look of "This is going to make for an AWESOME story" on her face.
Hey, it's just a dragon with ectoplasmic creature template.
I'm still betting on a vomit twin.
If it were just undead there wouldn't be a problem.So, Bloodrager and Swashbuckler vs. an incorporeal undead dragon? I hope the Bloodrager is well equipped, because the Swashbuckler will do absolutely nothing against that type of monster. ^^
Female half-elf Swashbuckler is looking swell, though.
True enough. I'm not sure it was a good idea to negate precision damage for some enemy types. Every time the developers make those inherent nerfs in the name of "realism", it's the martial classes which suffer, while primary spellcasters shrug and still do their thing (and I am not only talking about incorporeal opponents).
Yeah because we don't get creatures with a whole bunch of immunities based on type that prevent spellcasters from being effective...Oh wait;)
Yeah because we don't get creatures with a whole bunch of immunities based on type that prevent spellcasters from being effective...Oh wait;)
Only the ones which are unwilling to invest in (Greater) Spell Penetration and some good conjuration spells. I've GM'ed for a lot of primary casters and spell resistance was very seldomly an impediment they couldn't overcome easily.
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Yeah because we don't get creatures with a whole bunch of immunities based on type that prevent spellcasters from being effective...Oh wait;)Only the ones which are unwilling to invest in (Greater) Spell Penetration and some good conjuration spells. I've GM'ed for a lot of primary casters and spell resistance was very seldomly an impediment they couldn't overcome easily.
Spell resistance is not the only thing there. There are classes of monsters immune to mind-affecting effects, petrification, polymorph, and various energy types.
Edit: also, if you're investing feats and changing your spell selection, then clearly it had some impact. Almost as if different monsters require different tactics.
Yeah because we don't get creatures with a whole bunch of immunities based on type that prevent spellcasters from being effective...Oh wait;)
Not saying those don't exist, but they are way, way less common than the "magic is required" ones.
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Come on new Oracle curses! Come On New Oracle Curses! DADDY NEEDS A NEW ORACLE NPC! ^_^
Man, swashbucklers with ghost touch on their weapons sure look like a powerhouse. Only thing that can stop them are elementals and oozes.
Spell resistance is not the only thing there. There are classes of monsters immune to mind-affecting effects, petrification, polymorph, and various energy types.
Edit: also, if you're investing feats and changing your spell selection, then clearly it had some impact. Almost as if different monsters require different tactics.
Yet my original point, which was that nerfs by the developers in the name of "realism" disproportionally land on the shoulders of martials instead of casters, had nothing to do with where this conversation has been taken. ^^
Hmm, new info for the older classes... *begins hoping for possibly a dual mystery oracle similar to cross-blooded sorcerer*
Yes, I know they have a dual-cursed, which isn't what I am wanting.
Hmm, it could also be a Ravener.
Personally, I thought it was a Ravener too.
The cover is a reminder that the game is about awesome stories, not who has the biggest DEEPEEEHS
Damn, I'm starting to sound like TOZ.
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Damn, I'm starting to sound like TOZ.
There's only one cure. You have to kill the TOZ that bit you...
Yeah because we don't get creatures with a whole bunch of immunities based on type that prevent spellcasters from being effective...Oh wait;)Only the ones which are unwilling to invest in (Greater) Spell Penetration and some good conjuration spells. I've GM'ed for a lot of primary casters and spell resistance was very seldomly an impediment they couldn't overcome easily.
And only the swashbuckler who does not invest in undead bane weapons is effected by this.
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Gingers ... you can't win against them.
On the plus side, ginger women are TOTALLY HAWT (oogles his pic of Ann Margret as "the Swinger" dressed in a bikini/feather boa). ^_~
Correct me if I'm wrong, but where does it say in either ghost touch or undead bane that it allows uses to deal precision damage against incorporeal foes? Sure, ghost touch lets you deal damage normally (no 50% reduction) but it says nothing about being able to deal precision damage. Undead bane doesn't do either, the extra damage from bane is reduced by 50% as well, unless you also have ghost touch.
Perhaps I'm missing a ruling somewhere that says otherwise? If not, then Swashy's are pretty hosed, damage wise, against Incorporeal creatures, as their precision damage doesn't work on them. Good news, however, is that Swashy's probably have a better touch AC than most other martials, so at least he isn't getting hit as much.
Frankly, I'm okay with that as Swashbucklers have the ability to do a phenomenal amount of damage with relatively little investment. At least, as far as the playtest went.
It just means that the swashy won't be so good against incorporeal creatures, elementals, constructs and oozes. Every class as certain weaknesses, the swashy's happen to be it has trouble fighting certain monsters.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but where does it say in either ghost touch or undead bane that it allows uses to deal precision damage against incorporeal foes? Sure, ghost touch lets you deal damage normally (no 50% reduction) but it says nothing about being able to deal precision damage. Undead bane doesn't do either, the extra damage from bane is reduced by 50% as well, unless you also have ghost touch.
That... Is actually a really good question. Had to do a little digging, but found the answer in the description of the Incorporeal subtype:
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits and precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage) unless the attacks are made using a weapon with the ghost touch special weapon quality. In addition, creatures with the incorporeal subtype gain the incorporeal special quality.
Swashbucklers and rogues are still kind of hosed against anyone with concealment (unless they pay the feat tax) as well as ooze and elementals.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but where does it say in either ghost touch or undead bane that it allows uses to deal precision damage against incorporeal foes? Sure, ghost touch lets you deal damage normally (no 50% reduction) but it says nothing about being able to deal precision damage. Undead bane doesn't do either, the extra damage from bane is reduced by 50% as well, unless you also have ghost touch.That... Is actually a really good question. Had to do a little digging, but found the answer in the description of the Incorporeal subtype:
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits and precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage) unless the attacks are made using a weapon with the ghost touch special weapon quality. In addition, creatures with the incorporeal subtype gain the incorporeal special quality.Swashbucklers and rogues are still kind of hosed against anyone with concealment (unless they pay the feat tax) as well as ooze and elementals.
Cool! That's good to know. However, it's not like ghost touch is one of those 'standard' abilities that everyone puts on their weapon. Nor are incorporeal creatures a super-common enemy (though they do appear in nearly every campaign).
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Incorporeal creatures no long have concealment (unless they are partially submerged in a wall). Magic applied to them is halved in damage instead.
Creatures with the incorporeal condition do not have a physical body. Incorporeal creatures are immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Incorporeal creatures take half damage (50%) from magic weapons, spells, spell-like effects, and supernatural effects. Incorporeal creatures take full damage from other incorporeal creatures and effects, as well as all force effects.
Cool! That's good to know. However, it's not like ghost touch is one of those 'standard' abilities that everyone puts on their weapon. Nor are incorporeal creatures a super-common enemy (though they do appear in nearly every campaign).
Happy to help! And yeah, Ghost Touch is pretty far down the list of priorities for the martials in my groups as well. They will occasionally carry ghost salt weapon blanches but unless they're prewarned, they're generally better off just sucking it up and taking the damage penalty.
Incorporeal creatures no long have concealment (unless they are partially submerged in a wall). Magic applied to them is halved in damage instead.
Not sure if this is adressed to me? I was thinking of creatures with concealment in general - you can't apply precision damage to someone with a Blur spell active unless you have the Shadow Strike feat, for instance.
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Incorporeal creatures no long have concealment (unless they are partially submerged in a wall). Magic applied to them is halved in damage instead.Not sure if this is adressed to me? I was thinking of creatures with concealment in general - you can't apply precision damage to someone with a Blur spell active unless you have the Shadow Strike feat, for instance.
Oops, sorry - I mistook your meaning when you included elementals and oozes at the end. Sorry!
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There is nothing wrong with certain classes being better or worse at fighting certain creatures. I don't see the big deal.
There is no deal. I just made a comment that the Swashbuckler on the cover was very probably going to have a bad fight, because incorporeal opponents are problematic for PC's who primarily work with precision damage.
That apparently caused great offense, because REASONS and several people felt the pressing need to make clear that Swashbucklers are the BESTEST CLASS EVER to fight incorporeals. Or something something roleplaying vs rollplaying.
Love the cover!
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There is no deal. I just made a comment that the Swashbuckler on the cover was very probably going to have a bad fight, because incorporeal opponents are problematic for PC's who primarily work with precision damage.
That apparently caused great offense, because REASONS and several people felt the pressing need to make clear that Swashbucklers are the BESTEST CLASS EVER to fight incorporeals. Or something something roleplaying vs rollplaying.
You assume the Swashbuckler is for DPS, she could be Tanking.
Considering there are ten new classes, I wish they had more then two of the new iconics on the cover.
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Considering there are ten new classes, I wish they had more then two of the new iconics on the cover.
How do we know the dragon is not the Arcanist?