Up Close and Personal and Stealth


Rules Questions


Hi all,

I was wondering...if the character was in Stealth while he was making his Acrobatic check, would he be able to strike and then keep moving and make a Stealth check as part of his movement (if he gets somehow concealment)?

Would be possible to use this in combination with the Skirmisher class feature of the Scout archetype?

Thanks,
Skarm


Skarm wrote:
Would be possible to use this in combination with the Skirmisher class feature of the Scout archetype?

I don't think it would work since the Skirmisher ability is (probably)* referencing the Attack Action, which is a standard action, not simply attacking something.

Skirmisher (Ex) wrote:
At 8th level, whenever a scout moves more than 10 feet in a round and makes an attack action, the attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target was flat-footed. If the scout makes more than one attack this turn, this ability only applies to the first attack. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability.

*It does say 'an' instead of 'the', so there's room for doubt.

Liberty's Edge

I LOVE Up Close and Personal.

A character that successfully stealthed prior to the acrobatics check will still lose stealth after making an attack. If your acrobatics check was successful (and therefore can keep moving after the attack) you would be able to reenter stealth with that movement (assuming you meet the conditions to stealth).

I’m assuming you are making a Scout rogue with Stalker Talent to get UC&P. Skirmisher isn’t going to help, because there is no way to get an attack action before the swift action UC&P attack but after 10’ of movement. It’s always going to be move action->swift action attack->standard action or standard action->move action->swift action attack, I cannot find a way for the “first attack” to be an attack action after movement while using UC&P.


Wonderstell wrote:
Skarm wrote:
Would be possible to use this in combination with the Skirmisher class feature of the Scout archetype?

I don't think it would work since the Skirmisher ability is (probably)* referencing the Attack Action, which is a standard action, not simply attacking something.

Skirmisher (Ex) wrote:
At 8th level, whenever a scout moves more than 10 feet in a round and makes an attack action, the attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target was flat-footed. If the scout makes more than one attack this turn, this ability only applies to the first attack. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability.
*It does say 'an' instead of 'the', so there's room for doubt.

You are right... :(

There is a precedent with Vital Strike of use of "an"...

Skarm


ShieldLawrence wrote:

I LOVE Up Close and Personal.

A character that successfully stealthed prior to the acrobatics check will still lose stealth after making an attack. If your acrobatics check was successful (and therefore can keep moving after the attack) you would be able to reenter stealth with that movement (assuming you meet the conditions to stealth).

Eh...was exactly what I was planning to do!! :P

With a Shadowdancer or Hellcat Stealth would be amazing!!!

ShieldLawrence wrote:


I’m assuming you are making a Scout rogue with Stalker Talent to get UC&P. Skirmisher isn’t going to help, because there is no way to get an attack action before the swift action UC&P attack but after 10’ of movement. It’s always going to be move action->swift action attack->standard action or standard action->move action->swift action attack, I cannot find a way for the “first attack” to be an attack action after movement while using UC&P.

You have a point...but still, if I can do the Stealth, would be good! :P

The plan was...move...strike with sneak attack/hidden strike...and move 10 feet to disappear!! :P
Skarm


Skarm wrote:
The plan was...move...strike with sneak attack/hidden strike...and move 10 feet to disappear!! :P

The Skirmisher ability does not give the ability to move, attack, and move again. You need Spring Attack.

If the move after the attack ends in concealment, then he can make a stealth check to become concealed.

/cevah


Cevah wrote:
Skarm wrote:
The plan was...move...strike with sneak attack/hidden strike...and move 10 feet to disappear!! :P
The Skirmisher ability does not give the ability to move, attack, and move again.

I know, but Up Close and Personal does!

Cevah wrote:


You need Spring Attack.

If the move after the attack ends in concealment, then he can make a stealth check to become concealed.

/cevah

I agree with your interpretation on Spring Attack, but unfortunately not everyone does!! :-/

My ex-GM, in fact, insisted in saying that the line "as part of movement" of the Stealth skill was a misstatement for "move action"!

Honestly I was a bit perplexed by his interpretation, since for me "movement" means "movement" no matter what action is part of [in theory if some ability granted 5 foot...as Dodging Panache...that should allow to Stealth with "goodies" like HiPS or Hellcat Stealth] , else the rule would write "move action"! :-/

In the end, I ended up leaving his gaming table with a very "loaded" e-mail since I was in a bad RL moment and because I got the impression that all his "rule juggling" (in this case he stated a misstatement, in another was reading the rule strictly, in another stated that I couldn't use a swift action with a charge, that TWF couldn't be used with thrown weapons or that drag and reposition required grapple, etc...) seemed to be "striking" mostly me and another guy at the table that he was constantly "poking"...

...but the point is...I think your interpretation of Stealth is reasonable, but not *every* GM would agree with it! :(
Skarm

P.S.: To be honest my ex-GM's "rule juggling" was often "countered" by the intervention of the other players who are *simply amazing* and have a much better understanding of the rules, so they could actually refer exactly "why" this or that "rule juggling" wasn't "canon-compliant"...while I'd just have to say "What? Are you kidding? This makes no sense!" and then check the sources later! :-/

Sczarni

Skarm wrote:

Skarm

P.S.: To be honest my ex-GM's "rule juggling" was often "countered" by the intervention of the other players who are *simply amazing* and have a much better...

Yeh, I had someone claim DR is doubled versus non-lethal attacks... I was like "WTF? Where in the world did you ever read that, because I've never seen nor heard of it." Suffice to say they could not provide a source that mattered. Something about a Barbarian archetype class ability... I still don't know as they just sort of trailed off... I love using my phone because I can bring things up at table with either google or Pathfinder app (offline) that has most of the important bits. Or, you know, bring up my PDFs and search them.

Point of this ability: You tumble past them, slicing an artery (swift action during a move acrobatics action). You still have an attack action left in the round. You can always turn that into a second move action (withdraw) and stealth back into the shadows. In theory, you would be able to attempt another tumble and slice UC&P... except you don't get two swift actions in a turn.

Combine this with Bullying blow, take a FREE ACTION intimidate, then throw in Twisting Fear (free action) for double the hidden strike damage. You're welcome.

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