The headache of item creation


Rules Questions


Hello! First post, and i have some questions that i hope will finally be answered. I've been looking into crafting rules in pathfinder and boy, i feel Paizo doesn't really like player-crafted items much, at least judging by how the rules are set up.

Im going to play a 'crafter' character in the next campaign, a dwarf wizard/cleric that will be a master crafter able to create almost any item the party might need, but im not sure if i get the crafting rules right. Without further ado, im going to sum up what i learned by reading the rules and the occasional forum posts about item crafting in Pathfinder. There it goes:

Mundane item creation
Let’s say our barbarian's last encounter with a rust beast costed him his axe, so im going to make him a new one. Crafting a mundane greataxe goes like this:
1. gotta find the item's price in silver, so 200sp(20gp).
2. Find the item's craft DC, that's 15 for martial melee weapons.
3. Pay 1/3 of the item’s price for the raw material cost. That's 6gp.
4. Make the craft check, let's say my craft skill in weapons is 6. I pass the check by rolling 14, so 14+6=20. Now i multiply the check result by DC, so 20x15 = 300. That's more than the sp cost of the axe, i was able to craft it in one week without any problems.

Masterwork item creation
If i want to create a masterwork axe, i need to create both the axe and a masterwork component. Masterwork component costs 300 for weapons, so that's 3000sp, craft DC is 20. I need to pay 100gp for raw components. I make a roll and let's say i got lucky with natural 20. That's 26x20=520. That's 520sp out of 3000, so i worked a week and i completed only a 1/6 of the masterwork component. This sucks, but if i understand the rules right, that's how it works. But that's without any bonuses to crafting speed, so i guess that gets better with the right feats and tools.

Magic item creation, this is where stuff begins to get out of hand.

Now let's get into magic item creation. Let's make our barbarian a +1 Flaming Greataxe. For that i need:
1. Minimum caster level of 3 to turn the masterwork greataxe into +1 greataxe, Fireball or Flamestrike or Flame blade spell, and Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat.
2. Determine the item's cost. According to the table, the enchancement to +1 costs 2000gp. Total item cost is 2320.
3. Gotta pay up 1000gp (half the price) of raw materials for the enchantment.
4. Crafting a magic weapon requires 1 day for each 1,000 gp value of the base price, but you can only work for 8 hours a day. Guess that means i need 6 days to craft the magic weapon.
5. Finally a spellcraft DC check of 5 + caster level of the item. Im not sure what "caster level of the item" specifically means, but again, i GUESS, it's the CL required to cast the needed spell. In the case of Fireball, that's 6. So the DC is 11. Failing this check either breaks the weapon, or makes it a cursed item. I roll 12, my friend barbarian can now rage with a flaming axe. Creating magic armor, rings and other items follows the same rules.

Did i get all the rules right?


1. Yes, those are the requirements. Note that you can ignore any of the prerequisites except the feat, by adding 5 to the spellcraft DC for each requirement ignored.

2. As it is a +1 flaming it is a +2 equivalent. (Flaming is a +1 equivalent and +1 +1 = +2.) The total cost is then 8000 from being a +2, +300 from masterwork, + 20 for the base weapon = 8320.

3. "Magic supplies for items are always half of the base price in gp. For many items, the market price equals the base price. Armor, shields, weapons, and items with value independent of their magically enhanced properties add their item cost to the market price. The item cost does not influence the base price (which determines the cost of magic supplies), but it does increase the final market price."
Our base price here is 8000, so we need to pay 4000 gold up front, and have a masterwork sword to enchant.

4. That "8 hours a day" is the 1000gp per day. So out 8000 gold enchantment takes 8 days, but you can rush this "This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item’s base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by 5."
If you are talking about a normal +1 weapon instead of a +2 equivalent it will take you 2 days to craft. Not 6. They do not mean a day as a 24 hour working period, but a day as in 8 hours of work per day.

5. This is correct. But certain item's have listed CL's in the description, or require a certain CL to make.
"The creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the armor. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met."
The requirement for +1 is 3, the CL requirement for flaming is listed under the flaming enchantment and is CL 10. SO you need to be CL 10. the DC is 15. Or you can ignore the CL requirement by adding 5 to the DC to craft. Taking it to DC 20. It is very easy to get a +10 to spellcraft by the time you are wanting to spend this money, so you can take 10 and auto succeed.

Hope I answered your questions

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
EDIT

Note that there are ways to get crafting cheaper, and faster.
"Hedge Magician

You apprenticed for a time to an artisan who often built magic items, and he taught you many handy shortcuts and cost-saving techniques.

Benefit: Whenever you craft a magic item, you reduce the required gp cost to make the item by 5%."

"Cooperative Crafting

Your assistance makes item crafting far more efficient.

Prerequisites: 1 rank in any Craft skill, any item creation feat.

Benefit: You can assist another character in crafting mundane and magical items. You must both possess the relevant Craft skill or item creation feat, but either one of you can fulfill any other prerequisites for crafting the item. You provide a +2 circumstance bonus on any Craft or Spellcraft checks related to making an item, and your assistance doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day."

So by rushing the crafting, and by having someone with the cooperative crafting feat, you can easily make 4000 gold of magic items a day

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In terms of mundane crafting some things can take literal years, like full plate.
Other things make very little sense from a verisimilitude standpoint and are done that way for game balance.

A much more adventurer friendly crafting rules can be found in a great third party supplement with rules spelled out Here. Its called "Making Craft Work."

There are also alternative rules in pathfinder unchained.
Here


Wow, thanks for such a thorough answer! This pretty much answers all my questions. I really might consider the additional info too. Again, thanks a lot for helping me understand all that stuff!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Although I understand where you are going from a thematic perspective, the truth of it is that mundane crafting is just not really feasible for PCs unless you have a game with a lot of downtime. It is better to just buy the masterwork axe then waste weeks trying to craft it yourself.

You really need to make sure that you have a character that can enjoyably participate in the actual adventure, not someone who just equips the other characters, so make sure that you spend your skill points with that in mind. If you can accomplish that, and have enough for a craft skill for flavor then that it all good, but don't sacrifice your ability in combat for it.

This is true of feats as well. The advantage is that once you get to about 5th level a 9-level caster can meaningfully contribute just fine without any feats, depending on the role you want to take. Buffer/Support is less feat intensive then a debuff roll where you probably are going to need spell focus, spell penetration and similar feats to reliably effect your enemies.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

J4RH34D wrote:


5. This is correct. But certain item's have listed CL's in the description, or require a certain CL to make.
"The creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the armor. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met."
The requirement for +1 is 3, the CL requirement for flaming is listed under the flaming enchantment and is CL 10. SO you need to be CL 10. the DC is 15. Or you can ignore the CL requirement by adding 5 to the DC to craft. Taking it to DC 20. It is very easy to get a +10 to spellcraft by the time you are wanting to spend this money, so you can take 10...

Just to point out a minor correction, the CL of an item is not a prerequisite unless it's explicitly listed in the Requirements section. So while the default flaming enchantment is CL10, the creator doesn't actually have to be that level.

Otherwise all correct, as far as I can tell.


ryric wrote:
J4RH34D wrote:


5. This is correct. But certain item's have listed CL's in the description, or require a certain CL to make.
"The creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the armor. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met."
The requirement for +1 is 3, the CL requirement for flaming is listed under the flaming enchantment and is CL 10. SO you need to be CL 10. the DC is 15. Or you can ignore the CL requirement by adding 5 to the DC to craft. Taking it to DC 20. It is very easy to get a +10 to spellcraft by the time you are wanting to spend this money, so you can take 10...

Just to point out a minor correction, the CL of an item is not a prerequisite unless it's explicitly listed in the Requirements section. So while the default flaming enchantment is CL10, the creator doesn't actually have to be that level.

Otherwise all correct, as far as I can tell.

I always mess that up. I think.


Pathfinder Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

To speed up the mundane Masterwork part of the crafting, you could use the 2nd level spell "Masterwork Transformation" from Ultimate Magic Masterwork Transformation. This will turn any normal item into a Masterwork item for the cost of the masterwork component (300g for weapons, 150g for armor, 50g for tool, etc). It is 3x more expensive than making it, but it only takes an hour. Very beneficial for those without weeks of downtime.


Go to the d20pfsrd's Crafting page, and see if your GM will use the alternate rules, which are much easier to get by on. And much faster. For the mundane crafting.


Sebastian Mazur wrote:

Mundane item creation

Let’s say our barbarian's last encounter with a rust beast costed him his axe, so im going to make him a new one. Crafting a mundane greataxe goes like this:
1. gotta find the item's price in silver, so 200sp(20gp).
2. Find the item's craft DC, that's 15 for martial melee weapons.
3. Pay 1/3 of the item’s price for the raw material cost. That's 6gp.
4. Make the craft check, let's say my craft skill in weapons is 6. I pass the check by rolling 14, so 14+6=20. Now i multiply the check result by DC, so 20x15 = 300. That's more than the sp cost of the axe, i was able to craft it in one week without any problems.

3. You don't get to round down. The 1/3 value is 200/3 = 66 2/3 sp. So: 6 gp, 6 sp, and 7 cp.

4. You made 300 sp progress on a 200 sp item. Therefore, you made it in 2/3 of a week. That is 4 days and part of the 5th.

Sebastian Mazur wrote:

Masterwork item creation

If i want to create a masterwork axe, i need to create both the axe and a masterwork component. Masterwork component costs 300 for weapons, so that's 3000sp, craft DC is 20. I need to pay 100gp for raw components. I make a roll and let's say i got lucky with natural 20. That's 26x20=520. That's 520sp out of 3000, so i worked a week and i completed only a 1/6 of the masterwork component. This sucks, but if i understand the rules right, that's how it works. But that's without any bonuses to crafting speed, so i guess that gets better with the right feats and tools.

This part is done in addition to the base crafting. It is also done at the same time. You can craft fast if you add +10 to the DC. This makes the multiplier larger, giving more progress, but at the added difficulty of a higher DC. Look into the Crafter's Fortune spell for help there.

Sebastian Mazur wrote:
Magic item creation, this is where stuff begins to get out of hand.

And much faster.

Sebastian Mazur wrote:

Now let's get into magic item creation. Let's make our barbarian a +1 Flaming Greataxe. For that i need:

1. Minimum caster level of 3 to turn the masterwork greataxe into +1 greataxe, Fireball or Flamestrike or Flame blade spell, and Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat.
2. Determine the item's cost. According to the table, the enchancement to +1 costs 2000gp. Total item cost is 2320.
3. Gotta pay up 1000gp (half the price) of raw materials for the enchantment.
4. Crafting a magic weapon requires 1 day for each 1,000 gp value of the base price, but you can only work for 8 hours a day. Guess that means i need 6 days to craft the magic weapon.
5. Finally a spellcraft DC check of 5 + caster level of the item. Im not sure what "caster level of the item" specifically means, but again, i GUESS, it's the CL required to cast the needed spell. In the case of Fireball, that's 6. So the DC is 11. Failing this check either breaks the weapon, or makes it a cursed item. I roll 12, my friend barbarian can now rage with a flaming axe. Creating magic armor, rings and other items follows the same rules.

1. CL 10. The +1 requires a minimum of CL 3. [See here.] The Flaming enchant has a CL 10 requirement. The required CL is the minimum that satisfies all parts of the enchantment.

2. As mentioned, it is a +2 equivalent weapon, so 8000 gp (enchantment) + 300 (masterwork) + 20 (normal greataxe)
3. Half of 8000 is 4000 gp up front.
4. That is 1 day per 1000 gp of enchantment. The 320 for the masterwork greataxe is not covered by this. Therefore 8000 gp means 8 days. You can accelerate this crafting to 4 hours per 1000 gp by increasing the DC by +5. Since you can work 8 hours a day, this lets you craft twice as much per day. Fast crafting will only take 4 days. Crafting while adventuring limits you to 4 hours per day rather than 8, and you work at half efficiency. Effectively 250 gp per day (or 500 gp if you fast craft).
5. The CL of the item is listed between the name and the description. It controls the effective level of the item's magic. This has no relation to the CL needed to make the item. In this case, as this is not a named item, there is no listed value. Therefore I would go with the CL needed to make it. Thus CL 10 giving a DC of 15.

Sebastian Mazur wrote:
Did i get all the rules right?

No. But I gave details above. :-)

PS: Fireball is a 3rd level spell, so a wizard needs to be 5th level to normally cast it. Not 6.

/cevah


I'd agree that for crafting magical items it's usually easier to buy the masterwork item or draw up your specifications and submit them for bid and pay the craftsman to do his job. At some point the Wizard may gain spells that allow quick crafting (such as Fabricate). He'll also need a decent Craft skill to make the item. Craft(Sculpting) is generic enough to produce many items with an artsy flair and pretty constructs have both good looks and function (art nouveau clay golem).

The base item is considered masterwork which means it's very nice to start with. I'd add anything 'fancy' to the standard pricing. Things like encrusted jewels, a big jewel in the pommel, platinum or gold inlay (I think silver inlay and etching is covered by masterwork). So things that go beyond 1/3 of the masterwork item cost.

The hardest part is actually in pricing the item. There is a lot of variance in wondrous item pricing particularly at low levels and some specific variances you have to watch for.
Bracers are a sore spot in the game and particularly overpriced to keep them out of the hands of martial characters. A favorite crafting test is what is the price of a pair of bracers with Mage Armor 1@8 on command 3/day and Cure Light Wounds 1@1 on command 2/day both affecting the user only and with the restriction usable by a Wizard only. You'll get different answers (standard book price and inflated price) and part of that depends on GM taste.
There also some contention over item costs for wondrous items. Some items cost more than the standard book prices and it is a simple assumption that this difference lies in the materials used. Pearls of power are one such item as the pearl cost isn't stated.

Magic items always take some thought and consideration as to how they'll fit in your game and what the impact might be if someone other than the intended buyer wears or uses them.


Sebastian Mazur wrote:
...I've been looking into crafting rules in pathfinder and boy, i feel Paizo doesn't really like player-crafted items much, at least judging by how the rules are set up...

Alternatively, if your GM allows 3rd party material, there's this book called Making Craft Work which really simplifies the rules for crafting stuff.

Judging by the book's introduction, seems like its just what you're looking for:

Making Craft Work wrote:

The rules for the Craft skill don't work very well or make much sense. Just about everyone realizes this, yet despite moving from version 3 to version 3-1/2 to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, spotting improvement in Craft is like trying to figure out the square root of orange.

I've often read complaints about Craft in various forums. The general consensus usually ends up being, yes, the Craft rules are at least rather wonky, but the game isn't Commerce & Craftsmen, so just spend your skill points on something else that'll actually be useful. As far as consensuses go, that one's pretty lousy. If a player wants his PC to be a craftsman, that ought to be a perfectly acceptable desire for a pretty wide range of campaigns.

Wouldn't it be nice if you could find some Craft rules that at least made an effort at making more sense and tried to fix the wonkiness in the rules as written?

Well, I too think it would be nice, and so I sat down and decided to do just that. I've had these rules laying around for quite a while. I dusted them off, polished them up, and now you have them too. Should you have comments or criticisms, please don't hesitate to shoot me an email.

Good gaming!

Cheers!


I suffered the headache with Alchemy and Poisons.

In days (rather than weeks) the most benign poisons at level 20 still take on average 10 days with fast crafting, the more expensive take 241 days, and the most potent take 109... Per dose. And that's max level/ranks. A higher int would barely dent the numbers, and some (if not all) of those poisons are useless at that level.

Variant Crafting, if you consider their save DC as indicant of their complexity, high end poisons are complex (even though in many of their cases, they can be survivaled right from the source with no effort ala Ultimate Wilderness) and they're between two days and a week. A lot more viable for a single use item. Contrarily, the cheaper poisons are the same amount of time, 2-4 days.

A tonne better for sure, and makes more sense. A poison brewing NPC couldn't keep up a business if it took him a year per dose.

EDIT: This mechanic was so flawed, trying to find the balance between making things cheaper and reasonable to make yourself, that Starfinder did away with the cost reduction, and craft skills as a whole, instead tying them to overarching skills. Base time though is four hours and it's use is getting things when you'd normally be unable. I'm eager to see what PF2 will do, especially with the change in Magic Item rules.

EDIT 2: Unchained took an odd middle route, using item complexity as a threshold and changing to per-day work, however it is still gold-based for time, meaning the more potent poisons ranging from 1500-2600 per dose are still only punched out at around 32 gp/day which is still rather insane. Less than 100 days, which can be reduced if you're really good, or have workers (since Unchained let craft act slightly like profession). All in all, a semi-acceptable middle route, especially for cheaper items, which you could punch out in a few days (plus you pay 1/4th cost, not 1/3rd).


Azothath wrote:
The base item is considered masterwork which means it's very nice to start with.

The base item is not masterwork.

Some enchants, like magic armor and weapons, require masterwork items. Most wondrous items do not.

Gevurah wrote:
Alternatively, if your GM allows 3rd party material, there's this book called Making Craft Work which really simplifies the rules for crafting stuff.

Looks like this is summarized in the SRD here

Isaac Zephyr wrote:
<rant about poison crafting>

Check out Master Alchemist. This speeds up poison manufacture by 10, and you make IntMod doses at the same time. With a +5 mod, that means you make it at 50 times normal speed per dose. Add in skill buff spells and items, and you can pump the multiplier up real high, making way more per week.

/cevah


Let's see how the Master Alchemist works.

Assume:
Level 20, max ranks, class skill, +10 int mod, and the feat. Take-10 gives 45.
Dose of poison is 1000 gp, DC is 35.

Lets do fast crafting, making the DC 45.
You make 10 doses at a time. Each week you make 45*45 gp worth of poison on each dose. That is, 2075 gp.

Result is over 20 doses of 1000 gp poison per week.

This did not include magic beyond stat boosting.
Add the Skill Focus feat for +6 skill.
Add Crafter's Fortune for +5 skill.
Add several Tears to Wine spells (to cover the whole 8 hours) for +15 skill.
Add an Alchemy Lab for +2 skill.
Add a Competence item of +5 skill. [This could easily be higher.]
New total skill is 78, generating 3510 gp per week. That is over 35 doses per week.

You might also have a class bonus, a favored class benefit, or other things pumping the skill even higher. Getting a 36 Int is doable at level 20, giving 13 doses and +13 (instead of +10) on the skill. Hitting 90 is not that hard if you invest in it. Even 100 should be reachable.

/cevah


Cevah wrote:

Let's see how the Master Alchemist works.

Assume:
Level 20, max ranks, class skill, +10 int mod, and the feat. Take-10 gives 45.
Dose of poison is 1000 gp, DC is 35.

Lets do fast crafting, making the DC 45.
You make 10 doses at a time. Each week you make 45*45 gp worth of poison on each dose. That is, 2075 gp.

Result is over 20 doses of 1000 gp poison per week.

This did not include magic beyond stat boosting.
Add the Skill Focus feat for +6 skill.
Add Crafter's Fortune for +5 skill.
Add several Tears to Wine spells (to cover the whole 8 hours) for +15 skill.
Add an Alchemy Lab for +2 skill.
Add a Competence item of +5 skill. [This could easily be higher.]
New total skill is 78, generating 3510 gp per week. That is over 35 doses per week.

You might also have a class bonus, a favored class benefit, or other things pumping the skill even higher. Getting a 36 Int is doable at level 20, giving 13 doses and +13 (instead of +10) on the skill. Hitting 90 is not that hard if you invest in it. Even 100 should be reachable.

/cevah

The problem here is you're talking about a character who's /only/ function would be poison/alchemy making. And that week needs to be 8 hour days, if they're doing this while adventuring you're making way less progress.

And it doesn't stop the poison being useless at that level. The highest DC poison is 26, contact, and a character with the above build has no proper way to administer it. If they're an Int-based spellcaster for the various magics you mention, their BAB wouldn't support hitting anything. If they're a heavy skill class, they're devoting too much to int and this to stand with the martial bar.

High end poisons range between 1500gp and 2600gp, so yes the number is impressive for this poison brewer character, but it's under-valuing poisons of the character's level.

And this doesn't address the larger issue of crafting being broken in general. I used poison as my example because it's consumable, and the raw gp value make the times laughable for a character supposed to use poison, such as a Ninja or any Drow character.

Sczarni

What they said is probably accurate... tldr. Save up 2.74m gp, make a ring of wishes that will grant a wish every round as a user activated item, and then you don't have to worry about the costs, bump all your stats 5 points, bring into being anything under 25k gold per round (the stat bump process indicates you could combine wish power for enhanced effects)... lol. Some realms have this much gold but simply lack the ambition.

As for crafting: wait until you are level 5 or so and take master craftsman (if allowed). Then you can craft everything using "peanut brittle maker" or "baker".


Isaac Zephyr wrote:
Cevah wrote:

Let's see how the Master Alchemist works.

<snip>

The problem here is you're talking about a character who's /only/ function would be poison/alchemy making. And that week needs to be 8 hour days, if they're doing this while adventuring you're making way less progress.

And it doesn't stop the poison being useless at that level. The highest DC poison is 26, contact, and a character with the above build has no proper way to administer it. If they're an Int-based spellcaster for the various magics you mention, their BAB wouldn't support hitting anything. If they're a heavy skill class, they're devoting too much to int and this to stand with the martial bar.

High end poisons range between 1500gp and 2600gp, so yes the number is impressive for this poison brewer character, but it's under-valuing poisons of the character's level.

And this doesn't address the larger issue of crafting being broken in general. I used poison as my example because it's consumable, and the raw gp value make the times laughable for a character supposed to use poison, such as a Ninja or any Drow character.

You don't want an Int caster? +5 mod on a 3/4 BAB character is reasonable. And not that hard for a full BAB character. You can make up for the loss of ranks by using a spell like Crafter's Fortune.

As to doing this while adventuring, there are no rules detailing any changes. Since the spellcraft rules let you dedicate 4 hours a day while adventuring, and at 1/2 the effective progress. Applying that to craft gives you 1/4 your normal rate.

Since we can only find a DC 26 poison, that reduces the multiplier also. Now we are down to 2 doses per week of 1000 gp poison while you are adventuring. And you still can hit stuff.

/cevah


Cevah wrote:

As to doing this while adventuring, there are no rules detailing any changes. Since the spellcraft rules let you dedicate 4 hours a day while adventuring, and at 1/2 the effective progress. Applying that to craft gives you 1/4 your normal rate.

/cevah

You're right. I was wrong in that I was referring to Scribe Scroll speeds and rules (limit 2 effective hours a day for days when you're adventuring. Plus without a feat you can't make more than 1 a day).

Magic Item Creation:
"Magic Item Creation wrote:
The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours’ worth of work.

As such a thing does not exist for Crafting, and specific rules beat general, let's pull a specific from Vigilantes.

Vigilante-Social Talent: Double Time (Ex) wrote:
Double Time (Ex): The vigilante’s social identity is that of a skilled and respected artisan or professional, rather than a merchant or noble. In order to complete his day’s work while still continuing his vigilante activities, he has learned to work faster than normal, hiding his progress so it seems like he is working full shifts at his day job rather than spending some of that time on other pursuits. The vigilante needs to spend only 6 hours each day for mundane uses of the Craft or Profession skill, rather than 8 hours. If he has the social grace social talent, he needs to spend only 4 hours for any skill he’s chosen with social grace. A vigilante must have a social identity appropriate to the chosen skill to select this talent.

This means a normal character needs that good ol' 8 hour day. As each check represents a week of work (or a day if you opt for that), that's devotion of your day.

Alchemy in particular is a fun one, as you require the Alchemist's Kit to use it at all, and they are... Big.

Craft wrote:
To make an item using Craft (alchemy), you must have alchemical equipment. If you are working in a city, you can buy what you need as part of the raw materials cost to make the item, but alchemical equipment is difficult or impossible to come by in some places.

You're basically setting up a workshop without the portable one. Which pretty much means no adventuring.

Again, a character who would have all of these things, when compared to a contributing member of a party, doesn't work. Yes if you min-max the heck out of it you can pull off crafting in a reasonable time. If the GM is allowing long downtime periods you could do it. Or if your GM allows you to stop and go your crafting (I cannot recall where in my research I found that one, about not being able to leave certain crafting for later without GM permission. Maybe it was Starfinder, and if so, my bad for that one).

And that's not to go back to the OPs issue of crafting arms and armor. There is no such shortcut (to my knowledge) for that. Consider a suit of platemail, 1500gp and DC 19 (10+armor bonus). Not including the requirement of casting, or a feat (and still need casting anyway, either from paying someone else or a lot of Cha and Use Magic Device to cast from scrolls) and the 1000gp/day limit for making magic items.


Well, there is the Portable alchemist’s lab for 20# and only +1 circumstance bonus. And bags of holding are a thing.

As to not adventuring with a full lab, wagons are a thing also. :-)
[You can even make them FLY!]

I never heard of this stop-and-go crafting. The rule in 3.X and PF was that you cannot start crafting magic item #1, interrupt it to craft magic item #2, and restart magic item #1 later. As soon as you start #2, you loose all work on #1.

Crafting armor and weapons can be harder, because they need a good source of heat, but even that can be done.

You don't have to hyper specialize to do this. You can make a good martial or semi-martial that crafts on the side. A little cash, a feat or two, and some skill points. If your martial is dumb, that is your choice. Martials can be smart. Look up the Lore Warden. There are others.

/cevah


For mundane crafting, I highly suggest getting a wand of Fabricate and Masterwork Transformation. Alternatively, the Blood Alchemist I'm personally going for is able to create alchemist circles that last all day and can cast certain spells such as the two above, Make Whole and others at will.

Does this item work with magic crafting, not sure since it says you have to use a Craft skill and magic items used Spellcraft? Amazing Tools of Manufacture

Though with Master Craftsman it seems you could use em to make magic anything since magic craftsman makes you use a craft skill of your choice when making magic items.


also of note for most magic item crafting; the only things you absolutely NEED are the gold, the item your enchanting (for arms and armor only really), and the feat. Almost all the other requirements can be ignored for a +5 increase in the DC each.

And yeah mundane crafting is a pain, but thats what pocket dimensions with accelerated time and filled with homonculi sla-I mean crafters are for


Corvo Spiritwind wrote:
Does this item work with magic crafting, not sure since it says you have to use a Craft skill and magic items used Spellcraft? Amazing Tools of Manufacture

Spellcraft is not a Craft skill, so no.

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