Snapleaf and falling


Rules Questions

Sczarni

Ok. First I understand the verbiage of the item. While falling. Break and destroy. To get the benefits of feather fall and invisibility. As an immediate action.

My question is this;
Can a player use acrobatics to jump 10 feet vertically to be able to activate this item on their return (fall) to the ground?

The dc would be 40, 24 if you round up from 6 feet. But even 40 is relatively achievable. (40 with 10 feet of running start)


maouse wrote:

Ok. First I understand the verbiage of the item. While falling. Break and destroy. To get the benefits of feather fall and invisibility. As an immediate action.

My question is this;
Can a player use acrobatics to jump 10 feet vertically to be able to activate this item on their return (fall) to the ground?

The dc would be 40, 24 if you round up from 6 feet. But even 40 is relatively achievable. (40 with 10 feet of running start)

RAW: It depends on how strict you want to apply the target restriction of featherfall. The target must be freefalling. I don't believe that this is an official game term and there are several dictionary definitions. So, people may argue that point.

IMO, featherfall can affect any object that doesn't have a Normal Force acting on it. So, a character could use it midstride while running, at any point during a jump, etc.

I don't think a character would have to take fall damage to use this item. Which is where I think you got the 10 foot jump from.

Sczarni

Mallecks wrote:
maouse wrote:

Ok. First I understand the verbiage of the item. While falling. Break and destroy. To get the benefits of feather fall and invisibility. As an immediate action.

My question is this;
Can a player use acrobatics to jump 10 feet vertically to be able to activate this item on their return (fall) to the ground?

The dc would be 40, 24 if you round up from 6 feet. But even 40 is relatively achievable. (40 with 10 feet of running start)

RAW: It depends on how strict you want to apply the target restriction of featherfall. The target must be freefalling. I don't believe that this is an official game term and there are several dictionary definitions. So, people may argue that point.

IMO, featherfall can affect any object that doesn't have a Normal Force acting on it. So, a character could use it midstride while running, at any point during a jump, etc.

I don't think a character would have to take fall damage to use this item. Which is where I think you got the 10 foot jump from.

The 10 feet is from the "falling" section. Any time one falls 10 feet or more they are considered "falling" per RAW. You can, of course, fall 1 foot. Or 2 feet. But you don't gain the "falling" condition until 10 feet. Then the "falling" condition and rules apply to you. Otherwise, mid stride, falling 1 foot, or 2 feet, don't qualify as "falling" per RAW, even though technically you are "falling" per real life mechanics.


maouse wrote:
The 10 feet is from the "falling" section. Any time one falls 10 feet or more they are considered "falling" per RAW. You can, of course, fall 1 foot. Or 2 feet. But you don't gain the "falling" condition until 10 feet. Then the "falling" condition and rules apply to you. Otherwise, mid stride, falling 1 foot, or 2 feet, don't qualify as "falling" per RAW, even though technically you are "falling" per real life mechanics.

Falling:
Falling

Creatures that fall take 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet fallen, to a maximum of 20d6. Creatures that take lethal damage from a fall land in a prone position.

If a character deliberately jumps instead of merely slipping or falling, the damage is the same but the first 1d6 is nonlethal damage. A DC 15 Acrobatics check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage. Thus, a character who slips from a ledge 30 feet up takes 3d6 damage. If the same character deliberately jumps, he takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 2d6 points of lethal damage. And if the character leaps down with a successful Acrobatics check, he takes only 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 1d6 points of lethal damage from the plunge.

Falls onto yielding surfaces (soft ground, mud) also convert the first 1d6 of damage to nonlethal damage. This reduction is cumulative with reduced damage due to deliberate jumps and the Acrobatics skill.

A character cannot cast a spell while falling, unless the fall is greater than 500 feet or the spell is an immediate action, such as feather fall. Casting a spell while falling requires a concentration check with a DC equal to 20 + the spell's level. Casting teleport or a similar spell while falling does not end your momentum, it just changes your location, meaning that you still take falling damage, even if you arrive atop a solid surface.

This is the falling section. No where does it say that a character must fall 10 feet to be considered "falling." Just that characters who fall 10 feet or more take fall damage. And the fact that you take damage when you fall more than 10 feet implies that you can fall less than 10 feet. If you fall less than 10 feet, are you considered "falling" during that time?

Also, the target restriction for Featherfall states the target must be a "freefalling" objection which does not appear to be a game term used anywhere else.

Is there any reason why a literal interpretation would be incorrect? Does it break the game or something? I don't really see any major implications.


Seems fine to me. But then I'd just let you snap the thing without jumping at all to get the invisibility portion. We're all falling relative to something. : )

Sczarni

blahpers wrote:
Seems fine to me. But then I'd just let you snap the thing without jumping at all to get the invisibility portion. We're all falling relative to something. : )

by this logic no spellcaster can ever cast anything other than featherfall/ immediate spells... Not on sound footing. :) anyway, I guess I'll just ask my gm. What I proposed would work as a last resort. Easier to climb 10 feet and drop to activate it.

Sczarni

Mallecks wrote:
maouse wrote:
The 10 feet is from the "falling" section. Any time one falls 10 feet or more they are considered "falling" per RAW. You can, of course, fall 1 foot. Or 2 feet. But you don't gain the "falling" condition until 10 feet. Then the "falling" condition and rules apply to you. Otherwise, mid stride, falling 1 foot, or 2 feet, don't qualify as "falling" per RAW, even though technically you are "falling" per real life mechanics.

** spoiler omitted **

This is the falling section. No where does it say that a character must fall 10...

if you are falling you can't cast much. So it can be surmised that most movement doesn't apply the falling condition. ie. Less than 10 foot falls are not falling for purposes of game mechanics... Ie.per raw and game mechanics one does not "fall" less than 10 feet.


First Google response for Normal Force wrote:


The normal force is the support force exerted upon an object that is in contact with another stable object. For example, if a book is resting upon a surface, then the surface is exerting an upward force upon the book in order to support the weight of the book.

My interpretation was that a character must have a Normal Force applied to them to not be considered falling.

Mallecks wrote:
IMO, featherfall can affect any object that doesn't have a Normal Force acting on it. So, a character could use it midstride while running, at any point during a jump, etc

From my post above. You are correct, this means you could not cast a spell while running, but you could do it while walking. As long as you have some point of contact that is causing a Normal Force to act upon you. However, this doesn't seem that problematic, AFAIK, players can't move and cast spells at the same time. Is there a casting spring attack?

Again, this is my personal opinion, but I think it is reasonable and doesn't cause any unintended consequences like the one you pointed out as "everything is falling relative to something" meaning casters would have to be making falling concentration checks for every spell cast.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

You can activate the snapleaf even if not falling, you get both benefits as activating it give the benefit of the spell, it don't cast the spell.

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