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Vigilante has a pretty nice talent, which a rogue can pick up with stalker talent, if I recall correctly.

Blind Spot (Ex) (Ultimate Intrigue pg. 13): The vigilante is so skilled at stealth, he can use the Stealth skill to hide from creatures with unusual senses that normally automatically detect creatures. This includes senses such as blindsense, blindsight, lifesense, scent, or tremorsense. For each such ability that the creature possesses, if the vigilante is not bypassing the sense in another way—such as the negate aromaAPG spell for scent or flying for tremorsense—the creature gains a stacking +20 circumstance bonus on all Perception checks to notice the vigilante, rather than automatically noticing the vigilante. Only a stalker vigilante of at least 6th level can select this talent.


Although it doesn't include sneak attack, the FAQ on weapon specialization illustrates the difference Dave Justus is referring to.


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I really like the descriptive texts of your conditioning ability.

I would raise the choices to be on par with vigilance, myself. A flat bonus to skills and saves would make a fighter a much more compelling choice!

For example, cunning as a flat bonus to all acrobatics, but double for combat movement.

Of course, I'm just spit-balling here :P


Similar to the war drummer idea, I have a Skald who commisioned a special Earthbreaker. When he smacks the ground or an opponent it creates a percussive 'boom.'

Combining combat and music!


It uses the same pool of resources as a surge, but otherwise it is its own action. You have to have the mythic spell lore feat or the mythic spellcasting path ability to learn the mythic version of a spell. I believe you can take it for spells you might not know (but may learn from purchasing or leveling at a later date) but it does have to be a prepared spell/spell known.

You choose at the time of casting if you want to use the mythic or regular version of the spell.

However!! If you have the Archmage or Heirophant ability to cast any spell from your list, you could use it in conjunction with a known mythic spell at the cost of 2 mythic points (1 for each ability, plus any more from augmenting at higher tiers).

Hope that helps!


I think google translate can help make something fun without being outright silly.

Although I'm certain it is not grammatically correct because it required a little tweaking, "Satis placet qum saccharo in vertice," would be translate's latin for pretty please with sugar on top!


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Id ragers got way cooler. So excited I didn't check auto correct...


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Slam attacks?! I'd ragers just got was at cooler! :)


Ultrace wrote:

I say characters (and not "the party") because I stagger the levels. Rather than the entire group gaining a level at once, I have half the group gain a level at a certain point and after the next session, the other half gain their level. Thus, there's never more than a one-level difference among party members, and not for more than one session.

In any event, unless I come across players who somehow feel cheated if they're not provided with their arbitrary post-session xp numbers, I will likely stick with milestone leveling.

This sounds like a really fun take on it to me. The latest player to join my group has (after talking to her about it before-hand, too) an XP differential that has her leveling a session behind my players that have been there since the beginning. It has added a fun dynamic to the group since they are nearing another level and have been talking (in character and out) about the things they are gonna choose.

I think we are probably too far in our game to change it, but that is something I would possibly borrow in later games!


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Claxon wrote:


Edit: And I just realized that you concede these points to me.

Which ultimately leads me to my point that what you're describing isn't really about how you handle XP, but about how certain GMs handle issues that surround XP.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to push a perspective or change your view, rather to share my own experiences to illustrate why I enjoy XP. :)


Claxon wrote:
What if I told you that "XP is just given" so giving out levels isn't really different from giving out XP?

I would agree with you! However, it feels different.

I'd like to share some experiences that would help describe why I think
it feels that way:

The first is in the game I run.

XP Example:
I forget what level the party was reaching, but we were ending the session and they were something like 1500 XP from leveling. So I asked them to describe something they felt their characters accomplished or learned that I might not have considered. I can't remember the responses save the party's alchemist. Socially inept but incredibly smart, she described using knowledge (local) to understand Elven customs (describing the actual customs on the fly, great improv from the player!), and described the character's struggle to resist name-calling and pushy requests in order to help the group reach the MacGuffin. Other players in the group had similar responses... a well earned level, I thought!

The second is a game I am a player in.

Milestone Example:
Its a bi-weekly game, and one session was canceled (I forget why), so we had missed a month of gaming. After returning to the game and having a fun session, a couple of the players kind of pressured the GM to give us a level. In the end, he relented and gave the level.

These are extreme examples, but I think it shows the difference of giving vs. earning. Again, I'm okay with both styles, and understand that these examples could easily be flipped (pestering the GM for the extra XP, or describing experiences in a milestone game for the level)... but my personal gaming history has influenced my preference for sure.


I award XP rather than do story-based leveling. I have done both and played in both styles, and I can't shake the feeling that levels are just 'given' rather than earned without XP. I like having a tangible value on character progression, a sense of satisfaction with big number rewards.

But the bottom line is I will enjoy a game regardless... it is just personal preference!


Ah, the very best games I've played and ran have this quality of sharing joking/serious times! Try making a mental separation between the situations. Join in on the jokes! When you are ready to get back to the serious stuff, a simple, "Alright, let's get back to the story..."

If its really difficult to separate the two, talk about it a little beforehand. Tell the group that joking and enjoying yourselves is PART of the fun, but that you'd also like to have a serious effort at the story itself. If everyone is on the same page, it will probably be easier.


Reckless Hound wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Or support your local gaming store and buy from them, checking the copy on the shelf to make sure it's the printing you want before you buy it. I always try to buy from the store that hosts our local PFS group when I buy hard copies, though I do buy a lot of PDFs these days.
Yes that's the first thing I would do, but they normally have nothing that you're looking for, at least not where I live.

Yeah, we had a small store which had a focus on M:TG and comics. I had a hard time finding Paizo products I was looking for, but still went in to buy comics every now and again and check what was in stock. Sadly, they could not remain open and there is no longer a FLGS in my area.

Edit:

Vic Wertz wrote:
Reckless Hound wrote:

Here's a list of Paizos product distributors.

http://paizo.com/paizo/about/distributors

In general, in our industry, publishers sell to distributors, and distributors sell to retailers. The list of distributors you linked to is really only useful to retailers, as most of them sell only in volume to retailers.

You can find a listing of stores who have signed up for our retailer locator here.

That's a neat tool! I have to mention, though, that it showed retailers in my area that are no longer in business... dunno how the list is updated *shrug*.


That's reassuring to know! I'll play it safe from the paizo store rather than Amazon. Thanks guys!


I've enjoyed playing Pathfinder for quite some time! Some of my books have begun to wear and tear. For example, my core book is a first printing, but as I was getting ready to purchase a newer copy, I couldn't find any product information (both here at the Paizo site and on Amazon under Jason Buhlman's seller profile) about what printing I would be purchasing.

I'd really like to ensure I would be getting the latest (6th) printing, does anyone know if that would be the case? Do previous printings remain in the inventory? Did I simply miss the product information?

Thanks for any replies!


Oh that's a great point, haha. I was wrapped up in the mythic class abilities and completely spaced the path features... and we do indeed use the errata.

I quite like the undead detection, as they have a prominent role where our (homebrew setting) game is taking place.

Thanks again for your suggestions!


Thank you for the suggestions! I had thought doubling it might not feel mythic enough within the context of the book.

I might go with something like spending a mythic point to make it function as deathwatch for 1--or maybe 10--minute(s). That would be a cool benefit but not so strong as a constant deathwatch!


So the mythic class ability of Lifesense states, "This works as blindsight, rather than blindsense," (pg.90)... but lifesense already operates as blindsight link.

I have an oracle of life in the group. Would anyone have any advice for how to alter this with an appropriate mythic upgrade?


I would absolutely agree if the ability said it was treated as but it says:

Devastating Infusion wrote:
For this attack, the elemental annihilator's base attack bonus from her kineticist levels is equal to her full kineticist level.

I read that as the kineticist's bab actually changing.

I'd love to hear more of your thoughts though, as my interpretation could absolutely be wrong :).


I would disagree that you can't take vital strike at 6. As an example of feat prerequisites being met conditionally: someone can take power attack if they have 11 STR and a magic item that permanently raises it to 13. If they lose the item, they still have the feat (although they can't use power attack since they no longer meet the prerequisites).

So you qualify for vital strike when using devastating infusion as it actually changes your bab, but you don't qualify for its use otherwise

I've never played PFS, so they might treat that differently though.


Hello forum go-ers!

This came up in a game where the players are getting close to mythic ascension. Lightning stance says if you take two actions to move in a round you gain concealment.

Would using an ability like fleet charge combined with a typical move action meet the conditions for this feat? I read it as taking two move actions to move, but I could be mistaken.

I welcome any feedback from the community!


Indeed! So I would think a +2 INT item--in a consolidated skills campaign--would not have the ranks of a particular skill that is inclusive with the standard rules.

But at the same time, there isn't any language or alterations to such items under the subsystem... so it has left me a little confused.

Thanks for the replies!


Hello everyone! This is probably a straightforward answer but I wanted to ask the community:

Does an INT item unlock a skill (as per the normal rules) when using the consolidated skills variant rule, or would it simply add to your modifier... like if you had 16 INT and a +2 headslot item THEN it would grant you skill ranks.

I'm appreciative of any feedback!


As its just one player who might be joining us from long distance, I wanted to use a physical map. So a second webcam would have the group set?

I want to avoid a digital map, just to keep that tactile feel of the game with the group at the table, but I also would love to have an old player join us... so if it really came down to it, I would use an app to do so.

I actually don't have any experience with Skype, so its good to know that it has the ability to handle those kinds of situations.

Thanks for the replies!


I hope this is the right forum for this question, I apologize in advance if it is not.

It would be my first time having a setup like this. I've run games over maptools with every participant using ventrilo (an audio communications app) but now I'm running a group of four around the table and one of my maptools players would really like to join.

What equipment would be necessary? I trust the player's dice rolls, but could he see the map and group with a single laptop setup for Skype? Would I need another webcam or some other equipment?

I appreciate any feedback!


I've had a couple scaling items. You've got a pretty cool concept, and as a wonder item, room to make something that goes beyond just a +10 weapon (if you play to that level). I think dazzling blade from Rival Guide would be an awesome fit for a SLA, if that is a sourcebook allowable in your campaign.

There's also the +1 enhancements dazzling radiance from Dirty Tactics Toolbox and ominous from Ultimate Equipment. Ominous might do well with a bit of reflavoring for this item, but seems like a good fit.


My highest level PC was a 13th level tier 4 mythic battle cleric. If I count kills made by party members (that I assisted with spells and healing) I would say about 60 kills, give or take. This is only "people" as defined by Grumbaki.

This is quite a fun thread, thanks for posting! :P


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Although its not an item, the Sense Vitals spell from Dirty Tactics Toolbox might be a tool you could use.


The creature's ability:

Formless (Ex):
A psychic stalker has no visible form, but creatures that have taken Charisma damage from its attacks hallucinate a ghostly haze with a screaming skull within, allowing them to damage the creature normally. It is treated as invisible to all other creatures, but as it has no true form or substance, effects like invisibility purge, see invisibility, and even faerie fire or glitterdust do not negate this ability (though blindsight provided by thoughtsense locates a psychic stalker). The ability to hallucinate a psychic stalker and negate its concealment after taking Charisma damage is a mind-affecting effect.

States that a creature wounded by the Psychic Stalker can damage it normally.

This may be a sort of RAI vs RAW, but I thought I'd get others' input... my first thought was that the stalker is simply no longer invisible, but the way its written I could see it meaning that it can be damaged normally regardless of the incorporeal ability. I might be overthinking it, but it could be important with my gaming group.

Thanks for any input ahead of time!


Melkiador wrote:

I'd expect scattered sightings of flaming bulls running through the countryside. If anyone gets close enough, the bulls also appear to be metallic. Maybe they have a ghostly howl that sounds almost human.

There could be many non-horned animals being born with horns for a short time. This could include humanoids too. The children of the horn may even become a cult given enough time.

What is his bloodrager bloodline?

Destined bloodline.

Hmm, while I quite like the idea of phantom bulls, although it might be a little too much. Now, with some nice suggestions I might use a mix:

I think the bronze bulls in a dream will be a nice throwback for the players of the previous campaign, and still interesting for the others.

I really like the comet suggestion, so I might use that or a supernova for a lingering bit of impact on the setting.

Got a nice chuckle from some of the others suggestions. I think I would end up regretting (immensely) if I use "Heigh Ho" with the group, haha.


So the kingdom is loosely based on ancient Egypt. They build obelisks over the tombs of kings (like pyramids) so they can become a god. All the previous kings are in battle on a demiplane for the right to claim godhood, as no one has been able to complete the ascension. The adventurers were ensuring the current king would enter the battlefield and win with mythic magics.

The king is a mythic minotaur bloodrager. He is noted for being a powerful warrior, using a bronze bull to execute criminals, and relying on soothsayers for counsel.

I haven't looked at portfolios though strength and battle seem good choices...

I like the idea of a super nova, or a total eclipse. Those won't directly affect the group, but will pique curiosity.

Hope more of the setting info helps!


I'm trying to come up with an unique description for a campaign I'm running. Here's the background:

In an previous evil/mythic campaign, the players were on a high level, long term goal of getting an NPC king to ascend to godhood. There is very, very little chance we'll ever get to return to the campaign.

The current game is in the same setting--with some of the same players--and happening on the far side of the world on another continent. It will create some interesting hooks and possibly some interaction with some of the things that occurred in the previous campaign, and is my attempt of a nice way of giving some closure to the unfinished campaign.

I wanted to make a description of the moment the king achieves that godhood. My first thought was of a huge beam of energy, something like an orbital weapon from a scifi game, that manifests... but I don't think they could see it from this side of the world.

So right now, my thought is that the sky changes color for a day or two, maybe some unnatural storms occur.

Anyhow, I wonder if anyone might have some cool or exciting ideas for something that would result from a mortal ascending to the ranks of the gods?

Thanks for any input!


I appreciate the contributions everyone! If anyone would care for me to respond to something specific, feel free to ask again and I will try, but otherwise I hope my fellow posters don't mind knowing I've taken the time to read over the entirety of the thread. :)

I can't speak for all the players at my table, but I think I had rationalized my actions as not metagaming based on the idea that a character would have some notion/understanding of how well they are perceiving their surroundings. Don't ask me how I got the notion into my head, but its in there.

I do think this may still be true in certain situations and I have resolved to make an effort to try and not do so otherwise.

There is some reasoning behind doing multiple checks over an area, but in this particular dungeon, I think we had gotten carried away with it. Thanks to everything you guys have shared thus far, I'm going to endeavor to have a better in-game motivation to do so.

In the meantime, though, our perception check still remain hidden from us. We'll see if this ever changes, heh!


Dave Justus wrote:
Terronus wrote:
Dave Justus was kind enough to give a good example of outside circumstances affecting such a roll, which would be excellent flavor for a failed check. In fact, our group does this frequently. On a failed knowledge roll, I might describe my character as preoccupied with something that previously occurred, not just as a dummy, heh.

That was entirely not my intent. Schmoe didn't realize that he missed a clue. Sergeant Smith coughs all the time, and usually Schmoe ignores it just fine, this time it was unlucky that it distracted him into missing something.

Thank you for that clarification, sorry that I misinterpreted that!

I definitely apprrciate everyone's thoughts on the situation. The more I've thought about it after reading the responses I think there was some (unintentional) metagaming, but feel like that might have resulted in part from our group needing to hash out the concepts of skills like perception, sense motive and knowledge for a common understanding.

I'll certainly keep an eye on the thread for any more responses


Jiggy wrote:


I'll wait for clarification from you before giving an answer, but in the meantime, I've got further questions for you:
Why hasn't anyone been taking 10?
Why hasn't anyone been taking 20?

I think what I was really seeking is some sort of advice on the in-game implications of perception and how to handle it out of game, as well. So table harmony is probably the best fit! In this particular case, 10s and 20s were not allowed because-- being in a dungeon-- the GM ruled we were in danger.

wraithstrike wrote:
The PC's shouldn't know they got a 1 on the dice roll. I think if you keep rolling until you get a high roll it is metagaming.

I don't think it was any of the players' intent to metagame for desired results (I know it was not my intent). It really boiled down to the use of perception specifically, but I'll try to clarify a bit further.

If I roll really poorly on a perform or acrobatics check, there is a tangible result of that roll in-game. I fall on my face or the crowd boos, for example. I agree the PC's would never be aware of a 1 on any roll, but they would know if they did poorly. Even in the case of a really skilled character just rolling poorly, they would know they could do much better.

There is no such consequence for a poor perception check, though, so the issue was whether or not a character even realized they searched or examined something poorly. There is an absence of a result, rather than an actual result.

Dave Justus was kind enough to give a good example of outside circumstances affecting such a roll, which would be excellent flavor for a failed check. In fact, our group does this frequently. On a failed knowledge roll, I might describe my character as preoccupied with something that previously occurred, not just as a dummy, heh.

I hope that might better clarify the intent of my discussion and what I, specifically, am looking for. It was advice on the nature of perception, not so much a means for achieving a successful roll.


To start, I hope this is an advice topic, my apologies if it isn't!

This conundrum came up at our table: the group is making perception checks while exploring a dungeon. Pretty bad perception checks. Having already been victim to some traps, we continue making checks until one of us has a decent roll (whether it meets any trap DCs or not, we couldn't say) and continue on through the dungeon in this manner.

At a certain point, our GM gets a bit fed up. He is insistent that using perception in this manner is metagaming. While we haven't actively been roleplaying our checks, I counter with a real world example: Detective Schmoe investigates a lot of crime scenes. For whatever reason, on this particular day, he is pretty distracted and unfocused and does a pretty shoddy job of investigating. Nevertheless, he doesn't feel too good about his search, and reexamines the scene.

Similarly, adventurers do a lot of visual investigating. I feel like they would be aware of when they do a poor job of it, but my GM does not agree. From that point until today, he has made all our perception checks in secret. Which is totally okay, but the underlying issue still bugs me.

TL; DR Should PCs have any kind of awareness of how well they've made a perception check? Care to share your opinions on the matter, or if you've even encountered this problem?

Thanks for any input!


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My suggestion is the same that is used to solve most problems at the table: express your concerns to the group (or just the GM) before the game.

How much of the group's enjoyment is derived from jokong and socializing during the game? Take this into consideration and try to come up with an amicable compromise so everyone will be able to have fun!


I've had the pleasure of running a few evil games with sensible players. I would try introducing a powerful, unifying concept or NPC. In my campaigns a god worked well, but there might not be way to combine Irori and thd Green Faith's goals.

The idea I use is, "If you help me achieve X, I can help you achieve your goals at the same time." Maybe something homebrewed that is in opposition to the cults of Yidothrus?

Also, take a look at the Way of the Wicked AP. I have not read it myself but it is highly recommended by most who have used it. I would feel like using good aligned APs would probably only allow you to borrow bits and pieces that might fit together and not any kind of longer term campaign goals.

Best of luck!


Dot.


Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Yes, Dragonslayer is indeed cool, and Vermithrax is probably the last, and greatest, flowering of stop-motion special effects.

I'm gonna nit pick since I'm a big fan of cinema, but Vermithrax was done with "go motion." Guillermo del Toro said in an interview he wantsd to use similar effects for Smaug before Peter Jackson got back on board. A sad loss!

I'll contribute something that isnt a film but in the vein of The Last Unicorn and Flight of the Dragons that Pirates of Dark Water was a great fantasy animated series in the... 80s, I believe?


bookrat wrote:
The commoner goes supernova and deals 100d20 damage to everything within a 200 mile radius.

That was 3rd edition. Nowadays they do 200d10!


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I've been in two mythic homebrew campaigns and have had a lot of fun in each. The only considerations I had to use as GM in the first was selecting templates that were challenging to the party. I never had a problem with NPCs that had mythic tiers, each path had options to have exciting combats.

I did have two houserules: Max HP for bad guys, and actual epic weapons to overcome epic dr.

So it was a bit of extra work running it, but I and my table have been having a blast with mythic adventures.


At our table (and in my area, as well) a lot of players consider it very bad juju to touch someone else's dice. Even if they roll off the table and hit someone's foot!

To restore their luck I've seen two methods: roll til a Nat 20 (or the highest roll) or a Nat 1. 1 gets the bad luck out or 20 puts good luck back in. Some players just put them away for the rest of the session, heh.

Its superstitious, I know, but all in good fun.


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I'll put in as well that he can do as he wants. However, it isn't very courteous or fun to do such house rules without any kind of warning. See if he might be willing to put together a list of house rules he will be using in the game... it'll greatly reduce "nagging" and unpleasant surprises.

Also, why couldn't the character have been brought back with raise dead? If he still wanted to have a service fee you could still save some money.

You'll probably hear this a bit, but open and polite communication is one of the best ways to have fun in a game!


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Do you have a good idea of the feats you will take until you hit the level cap at your table? I'm playing my own reach cleric, and don't feel the build is very feat intensive. My point being, you could probably just take heavy armor as a feat and skip fighter.

Are you the only frontliner? That would increase the value of a fighter level a lot. If you aren't, I'd stick with straight cleric.


Just food for thought that at +3 it could be combined with a burst property. I'm assuming weapons can only have +5 special abilities, I can't recall if its official or a house rule for +1/+9 special abilities weapons. If that's the case 3 bursts and devastating with butterfly sting would be pretty cool :-), although I don't know how your table would react, heh.


Jesus Quintana from the Big Lewbowski. Maybe Mrs. Bluberidge from the Muppet's Treasure Island.


Add heroes' feast and waves of ecstasy to the list. The former for an all day buff and the latter for crowd control. I get a lot of use from wall of stone with my cleric, as well.


Use his wealth and spell selection to create a unique fight. I had a surmise umbral dragon fight a high level archaeologist, gun toting ninja, two hand fighter and alchemist. Not a dissimilar set up. I tried to use a little deception to have them think it was a black dragon, so they had prepared acid resistance spells... But they were also in the habit of heroe's feast each day. The first breath weapon only was failed by the fighter. The dragon knew about the heroes (they were well above 11th level legendary status) and had spent his wealth to prepare two clones and access to a suite of pit and wall spells, as well as damaging ranged spells. He had stacked up on standard defensive spells, as well... Nothing too unique.

So, after fighting some worshippers the dragon began with some spells at range to weaken the party a bit. His true sight and walls only allowed a few sneak. attack gun shots at a distance... I didn't want to totally stop the gunfight, though. Despite it being a bad choice he ended up trading full attacks with the fighter and bard, dealing some serious damage before getting a vital strike critical and falling. He hadn't been too tough, but a satisfying fight. Then the group heard the first clone roar and opted to do a chase encounter from game mastery guide to escape (but still earn experience from the encounter!) and continue the story. They were well geared so flthey enjoyed it despite not getting his hoard.

TL;DR: with spells and defensive gear from his wealth, even a full attack fight was challenging and fun!

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