Elemental annihilator kineticist archtype questions


Rules Questions


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Can the kinetic blade be wielded in two hands while weapon finessing for added con to damage?

What kind of damage is the actual kinetic blade? Is it fire? Slashing, piercing etc? Is it JUST magic?

Since kinetic blade is allowable with vital strike, and it strikes at bab= class level, then at level 6, you get the added dice to the attack right?


I'd say no to the bonus damage on a Weapon Finessed devastating infusion. You don't gain any benefit for two-handing a light weapon, and you can't benefit from Weapon Finesse if you're counting your devastating infusion as a 1h. You either use your Dex for attack rolls or deal an extra 1/2 your Con in damage.

I'm not quite sure Slashing Grace can convert Dex to damage here either, since it specifically replaces Str, which you're not adding to your devastating infusion's cost anyway. Personally I'd still allow it, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work RAW so you should check with your GM first.

The damage dealt is as your kinetic blast. Since devastating infusion can only be used with physical blasts, this is going to be limited to bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing unless you use a composite with it (which IMO isn't worth as much for an elemental annihilator, since composites deal the same damage as simple blasts for them). Your devastating infusion is still going to deal magic damage, though, so there is that.

I'm fairly certain you won't qualify for Vital Strike by 6th level, since you don't actually have the BAB, it's simply treating your BAB as a different number while you attack with devastating infusion. You don't naturally get BAB +6 until 8th, meaning that's the earliest you're going to get it. Again, you might be able to take it earlier if your GM allows, but you'll want to ask first.


It's pfs, so if not RAW thats a no :) so based on your wording, which makes sense both 1 and 3 are no, but what about 2. You said The damage dealt is as your kinetic blast. Since devastating infusion can only be used with physical blasts, this is going to be limited to bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing so do i choose when i make the blade? does it deal all three? I don't believe the fire says specifically what kind, so...


no
depends, it's the same type as the blast you're using. Note, that the Devastating infusion can't be done with the elemental blasts, and needs to be with a physical blast.

kinetic blade doesn't work with vital strike, but the Elemental Annihilator's devastation blast that only does 1d8 can be used with vital strike. But you need to take vital strike and use it. So an Annihilator can take vital strike and use a standard action to do 2d8+con.


Also, the level 6 ability Flurry of devastation states : At 6th level, an elemental annihilator can make a full attack of devastating infusions against targets within 120 feet as a full-attack action. Each individual attack deals damage as a devastating infusion.

This is a 3rd-level form infusion that costs 1 point of burn and can be used with the same blast types as devastating infusion. Abilities such as Rapid Shot and haste that grant additional attacks apply normally to this full attack. If she makes only melee attacks with her flurry of devastation, she can use the Two-Weapon Fighting feats (unlike with the kinetic blade wild talent), but ranged devastating infusions do not work with Two-Weapon Fighting. For the elemental annihilator's off-hand attacks with Two-Weapon Fighting, she adds half her Constitution modifier to the damage (increasing to her full Constitution modifier if she has Double Slice). Though she can normally mix melee and ranged attacks with her flurry of devastation, she can't do so when she uses Two-Weapon Fighting. She can never use metakinesis or substance infusions with flurry of devastation.

So can this one point of burn be reduced by infusion specialization? At level 5 with that you can reduce the cost of an infused blast by 1 burn.


Evilserran wrote:
It's pfs, so if not RAW thats a no :) so based on your wording, which makes sense both 1 and 3 are no, but what about 2. You said The damage dealt is as your kinetic blast. Since devastating infusion can only be used with physical blasts, this is going to be limited to bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing so do i choose when i make the blade? does it deal all three? I don't believe the fire says specifically what kind, so...

look at the basic blasts

Air blast, only bludgeoning
earth blast, can be any of bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing
gravity blast is only bludgeoning,
Telekinetic is same as earth
water is only bludgeoning,
wood is all three
these all go against normal AC

Fire is an energy blast, thus can't be used with devastating infusion, but goes against touch AC and does fire damage.
electric does electric, cold does cold,

so it depends on your element and which basic blast you choose.


Evilserran wrote:
It's pfs, so if not RAW thats a no :) so based on your wording, which makes sense both 1 and 3 are no, but what about 2. You said The damage dealt is as your kinetic blast. Since devastating infusion can only be used with physical blasts, this is going to be limited to bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing so do i choose when i make the blade? does it deal all three? I don't believe the fire says specifically what kind, so...

No, you can't deal all three. You're limited to air, earth, gravity, telekinetic, water, and wood blasts for this (at least as far as simple blasts go). For air, gravity, and water, you only deal bludgeoning; for earth, telekinetic, and wood you can choose one of the three options, exactly as you could when using these blasts any other way.

As for composites, again, they'll deal damage as normal. For example, if you use a devastating infusion with magma blast, its damage will be half bludgeoning, half fire, or if you use it with ice blast it'll be half piercing, half cold. However, the damage isn't going to increase at all unless you're using it with aetheric boost (which will add a flat +1 to each hit). You could make an argument for gravitic boost increasing its damage to 1d10, but this is another situation where it likely wouldn't work RAW (the wording suggests it only functions on d6s associated with your blast).


I would disagree that you can't take vital strike at 6. As an example of feat prerequisites being met conditionally: someone can take power attack if they have 11 STR and a magic item that permanently raises it to 13. If they lose the item, they still have the feat (although they can't use power attack since they no longer meet the prerequisites).

So you qualify for vital strike when using devastating infusion as it actually changes your bab, but you don't qualify for its use otherwise

I've never played PFS, so they might treat that differently though.


Evilserran wrote:

Also, the level 6 ability Flurry of devastation states : At 6th level, an elemental annihilator can make a full attack of devastating infusions against targets within 120 feet as a full-attack action. Each individual attack deals damage as a devastating infusion.

This is a 3rd-level form infusion that costs 1 point of burn and can be used with the same blast types as devastating infusion. Abilities such as Rapid Shot and haste that grant additional attacks apply normally to this full attack. If she makes only melee attacks with her flurry of devastation, she can use the Two-Weapon Fighting feats (unlike with the kinetic blade wild talent), but ranged devastating infusions do not work with Two-Weapon Fighting. For the elemental annihilator's off-hand attacks with Two-Weapon Fighting, she adds half her Constitution modifier to the damage (increasing to her full Constitution modifier if she has Double Slice). Though she can normally mix melee and ranged attacks with her flurry of devastation, she can't do so when she uses Two-Weapon Fighting. She can never use metakinesis or substance infusions with flurry of devastation.

So can this one point of burn be reduced by infusion specialization? At level 5 with that you can reduce the cost of an infused blast by 1 burn.

Yes, as it is an infusion.


Terronus wrote:

I would disagree that you can't take vital strike at 6. As an example of feat prerequisites being met conditionally: someone can take power attack if they have 11 STR and a magic item that permanently raises it to 13. If they lose the item, they still have the feat (although they can't use power attack since they no longer meet the prerequisites).

So you qualify for vital strike when using devastating infusion as it actually changes your bab, but you don't qualify for its use otherwise

I've never played PFS, so they might treat that differently though.

Your bab is treated as full bab for X, does mean you actually ever have full bab. So similar to a monk, you can't get faster access to feats gated by bab.


Chess Pwn wrote:
Evilserran wrote:
It's pfs, so if not RAW thats a no :) so based on your wording, which makes sense both 1 and 3 are no, but what about 2. You said The damage dealt is as your kinetic blast. Since devastating infusion can only be used with physical blasts, this is going to be limited to bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing so do i choose when i make the blade? does it deal all three? I don't believe the fire says specifically what kind, so...

look at the basic blasts

Air blast, only bludgeoning
earth blast, can be any of bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing
gravity blast is only bludgeoning,
Telekinetic is same as earth
water is only bludgeoning,
wood is all three
these all go against normal AC

Fire is an energy blast, thus can't be used with devastating infusion, but goes against touch AC and does fire damage.
electric does electric, cold does cold,

so it depends on your element and which basic blast you choose.

based on this, if i am a fire kineticist , i cant use the blade at all? bugger, we are making a captain planet group, and i am fire, i wanted to be this archtype, but i guess i cant then :/


I would absolutely agree if the ability said it was treated as but it says:

Devastating Infusion wrote:
For this attack, the elemental annihilator's base attack bonus from her kineticist levels is equal to her full kineticist level.

I read that as the kineticist's bab actually changing.

I'd love to hear more of your thoughts though, as my interpretation could absolutely be wrong :).


Evilserran wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
Evilserran wrote:
It's pfs, so if not RAW thats a no :) so based on your wording, which makes sense both 1 and 3 are no, but what about 2. You said The damage dealt is as your kinetic blast. Since devastating infusion can only be used with physical blasts, this is going to be limited to bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing so do i choose when i make the blade? does it deal all three? I don't believe the fire says specifically what kind, so...

look at the basic blasts

Air blast, only bludgeoning
earth blast, can be any of bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing
gravity blast is only bludgeoning,
Telekinetic is same as earth
water is only bludgeoning,
wood is all three
these all go against normal AC

Fire is an energy blast, thus can't be used with devastating infusion, but goes against touch AC and does fire damage.
electric does electric, cold does cold,

so it depends on your element and which basic blast you choose.

based on this, if i am a fire kineticist , i cant use the blade at all? bugger, we are making a captain planet group, and i am fire, i wanted to be this archtype, but i guess i cant then :/

You can use the archetype to get bonus feats, you just can't use devastating infusion unless you pick up a second element at lv7 to get a physical blast.

But if you're going fire, going normal works well. You can pick up the kinetic blade infusion and that DOES work with fire. At lv1-4 it takes a move action to use for free, so no moving and attacking. But once you reach lv5, you can move and attack or full attack for free.


thatsnwhy i ask all the questions lol, plus when the other 3 kineticists show up, i'll be able to explain things to them lol. now i am looking at going overwhelming soul instead. but that means i wont be a dwarf...so who knows... lol

thanks all!


Be an Elemental Ascetic, punch people so hard that you set them on fire.


seriously, the base version is the best. overwhelming soul is pretty much a down grade to allow undead to be a kineticist. if you're okay that it's weaker and want cha go with it. it's not crippling bad. but it is worse


yes, i understand less oomph, but keep in mind this is going to be run at pathfinder society, with 3 other kineticists... this allows me to have respectable "face" values trhe others will not have. I might look at the ascetic one if thats pfs legal. I feelcombats are going to be a breeze, but the skillchallenges/social aspects mayhamper us big time, especially if we are the only four that week...


the ascetic one is PFS legal, but you lose out on your ranged attack.

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