Introducing the Triumph of the Tusk Player’s Guide

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOORCSSSSSSS!
…will now engage in diplomacy!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOORCSSSSSSS!

…will now engage in diplomacy!

Ork diplomacy where the rhetoric becomes very very pointed.

After reading this, I get the comments now from the livestream about how it might be more... not suitable, but interesting to play this with a party that isn't all orcs. I think the ancestry recommendations here are really fun and have a lot of cool story hooks. Excited for part 1 to drop soon-ish!

This is a great players guide, lots of exciting new info and some very fun bits especially on the ancestries and classes. So excited!!

We've got statblocks for eight new deities, including Pathfinder's first dromaar deity!!! (Besides Gorum!)

HOLY CRAP MY FAVORITE BELKZEN CHARACTER CAME BACK WITH STEEL CHAIR

Also I wonder if this means all old orc gods who didn't get mentioned died off?

Are the deities in this PFS legal? Could PCs be some of Mahja or Uirch's first converts amongst the Burning Suns, for instance?

Edit: Also, I really want to see how someone make a Warpriest of Wulgren because that is going to be a very complicated build to get right.

The Pantheon changes are *interesting*

Also NGL the idea of a wandering Kholo mercenary band in the context of Belkzen immediately made my brain go full Eberron.

I do wonder, is Wulgren the alkenstar half-orc inventor of Barricade Buster?

Orcs strong together!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOORCSSSSSSS!

…will now engage in diplomacy!

ORKS IZ DA BEST AHZ DIPLOMACYS! YEZ WE'ZE IZ!

Also is it just me or is Tar-Baphon finally starting to make a move after freeing himself and turning Last Wall into an undead-filled hellhole?

This probably does not bode well for the nations of Avistan down the line. Hopefully our heroes can help the Orcs unite their people.

Big fan of all the new deities!

Ooh, sneak peak at new(?) stuff coming in divine mysteries.
I spotted two spells (Endure, Anticipate peril) and a new domain, Introspection. Neat!

Excuse the double post, but it just occured to me

Will the DMs material contain any reccomendations on how to avoid falling into bad sterotypes when running orc stuff? Given how deeply tied orcs have been, and still can be, with pretty bad racism etc, it might be prudent to have a little primer.

Ooh, sneak peak at new(?) stuff coming in divine mysteries.

I spotted two spells (Endure, Anticipate peril) and a new domain, Introspection. Neat!

Those actually do all already exist but will be remastered in divine mysteries!

It is now the time of Torrentmoot where we air grievances and perform feats of strength!

Are the deities in this PFS legal?

These deities are, to my knowledge, all featured in Divine Mysteries, which releases in November. Expect more information on PFS sanctioning then!

What level do the players start out in this AP? 1? 11? Something else?

Didn't see anything about it in the Player's Guide.

The PG says they players are some kind of "dignitaries," so I'm guessing higher than 1st?

What level do the players start out in this AP? 1? 11? Something else?

Didn't see anything about it in the Player's Guide.

The PG says they players are some kind of "dignitaries," so I'm guessing higher than 1st?

The first section says that the PCs start at level 3.

Seems like Crucibles of late went rather well for the prospective gods, well done Mahja and Uirch

It is now the time of Torrentmoot where we air grievances and perform feats of strength!

Who has the aluminum pole?

Hmm, does this seem like an odd choice of skill and skill feat for this background to others too?

EMPTY HAND LOYALIST [BACKGROUND] The orcs have had a long history of violence that brings some orcs pride, but for you it’s a mark of shame. You see the path of reconciliation that Ardax is paving and find hope in the chance to transform your people’s ways into one that moves away from stereotypes of brutality ... You’re trained in the Intimidation skill and the Belkzen Lore skill. You gain the Quick Coercion skill feat.

"Violence bad, but Coercion good"?

Arkat wrote:

What level do the players start out in this AP? 1? 11? Something else?

Didn't see anything about it in the Player's Guide.

The PG says they players are some kind of "dignitaries," so I'm guessing higher than 1st?

The first section says that the PCs start at level 3.

Ugh, you're right.

That's what I get for reading too quickly because I was at work.

Thanks.

3rd level? Really?

The PCs can't be *that* dignified, then.

BobTheArchmage wrote:

Arkat wrote:

What level do the players start out in this AP? 1? 11? Something else?

Didn't see anything about it in the Player's Guide.

The PG says they players are some kind of "dignitaries," so I'm guessing higher than 1st?

The first section says that the PCs start at level 3.

Ugh, you're right.

That's what I get for reading too quickly because I was at work.

Thanks.

3rd level? Really?

The PCs can't be *that* dignified, then.

I believe the stream preview mentioned that abnumber of foreign groups sent junior delegates and representatives who were more... expendable, in the event the summit was a trap.

"Violence bad, but Coercion good"?

The credo of statebuilding in five words.

Interesting that New Thassilon is not mentioned as a possible PC patron in the guide. I really look forward to check in the adventure if this is an oversight or intended for story reasons.

Very curious of the status of the Orc Pantheon. Is this the new one, or did some of these exist before and simply weren't mentioned? Also, we know Drask killed Zagrex, and Verex became a Spawn of Rovagug, but what happened to the rest of them? Are they still active and just not mentioned here, or killed by some of the other ascendants?

...Also, who do you think Mahja killed? My money's on Sezelrian.

Anyway, fun stuff! Looking forward to this AP!

Hmm, does this seem like an odd choice of skill and skill feat for this background to others too?

Quote:

EMPTY HAND LOYALIST [BACKGROUND] The orcs have had a long history of violence that brings some orcs pride, but for you it’s a mark of shame. You see the path of reconciliation that Ardax is paving and find hope in the chance to transform your people’s ways into one that moves away from stereotypes of brutality ... You’re trained in the Intimidation skill and the Belkzen Lore skill. You gain the Quick Coercion skill feat.

"Violence bad, but Coercion good"?

Yep, I found that one completely counterintuitive.

I also found the deities somewhat odd - while I really liked the new direction Uirch is heading in, the two tech-heads (Varg and Wulgren) seem far too similar, even down to sharing a domain (creation) and their respective 4th level Cleric spell…ummm…creation.

I also wasn’t really sold on the thread holding Jukha’s story together. It seems she failed in keeping her band together….and then…whoops….is now the god of big game hunting. It’s a bit of a leap, that doesn’t make a lot of sense with the minimal details we are given….

Mostly though, I actually found myself interested in playing this AP, and as a non-human. Finally an AP that makes complete sense to be a strange stranger in a strange land of strangers. And orcs.

I guess my last issue with the AP is that while the Player’s Guide is actually pretty informative, it doesn’t really help me to understand how a) the group of “ambassadors/diplomats/fortune seekers/opportunity exploiters become a “group of adventurers” or b) how they come to share a common goal. Given most murder hobos don’t need much more than to have accidentally on purpose fallen over a fourth wall in any available tavern this isn’t a big issue, more an observation that the narrative appears a little nebulous compared to say…Season of Ghosts or….just about any other AP. Even Strange Aeons. I guess the common goal is to stop Ardax losing his deathgrip on control of Belkzen so as to keep some stability?

Hmm, does this seem like an odd choice of skill and skill feat for this background to others too?

Quote:

EMPTY HAND LOYALIST [BACKGROUND] The orcs have had a long history of violence that brings some orcs pride, but for you it’s a mark of shame. You see the path of reconciliation that Ardax is paving and find hope in the chance to transform your people’s ways into one that moves away from stereotypes of brutality ... You’re trained in the Intimidation skill and the Belkzen Lore skill. You gain the Quick Coercion skill feat.

"Violence bad, but Coercion good"?

Less smash you might makes right and more Intense mom disappointment maybe? Gronk did you raid villages again?? Gronk I am so disappointed you are better than this.

I wonder if this AP will continue the trend of Ardax getting more and more handsome every time we see new art of him. By now you'd be forgiven for thinking he's in the prime of his youth, rather than middle-aged by orc standards like he actually is! XD

I do wonder, is Wulgren the alkenstar half-orc inventor of Barricade Buster?

I strongly suspect so!

This looks really fun. We just started up SKY KING'S TOMB and I was thinking we'd delay that to at least take a look at the orc game. Having a blast, but boy, I do like the concept of a buncha orky-boyz smashin' hedz and diplomasyzin.

Alas, I suspect that the opening will be yet another festival... which makes for four festivals starting the last 6 most recent APs... Wardens, Season, Sky Kings...

Hmm, does this seem like an odd choice of skill and skill feat for this background to others too?

Quote:

EMPTY HAND LOYALIST [BACKGROUND] The orcs have had a long history of violence that brings some orcs pride, but for you it’s a mark of shame. You see the path of reconciliation that Ardax is paving and find hope in the chance to transform your people’s ways into one that moves away from stereotypes of brutality ... You’re trained in the Intimidation skill and the Belkzen Lore skill. You gain the Quick Coercion skill feat.

"Violence bad, but Coercion good"?

All this fondly reminds me of fellow twin Half-Orc PF1 PCs who introduced themselves as diplomats (aka Fighter/Barbarian) and stacked all the OP Orc feats with the avowed objective to create their own tribe (with Leadership). An enthusiastic goal soon shared by the other PCs :-)

3rd level? Really?

The PCs can't be *that* dignified, then.

What an odd take. Why does level affect how important characters can be? It's primarily a measure of combat ability, not social standing.

Less smash you might makes right and more Intense mom disappointment maybe? Gronk did you raid villages again?? Gronk I am so disappointed you are better than this.

"GRONK NOT NOEZ WHATZ YOUZ IZ TALKINZ ABOUT! GRONK NOT KNOWZ WHERZ DIZ LOOTZ CAMES FROM!"

Niktorak, IronBear and I did our reading of the player's guide Bramble Bear's Prep Sessions, did some character building ideas, and were generally pleased by the player guide.

The only thing that stuck out was a minor editing error, and Jhuka the Goddess; as her description was a huge leap in logic for how she ascended. Usually people who die after a failure like that become undead with that much regret. Nice to see it goes both ways now. Become an undead or experience apotheosis.

Niktorak, IronBear and I did our reading of the player's guide Bramble Bear's Prep Sessions, did some character building ideas, and were generally pleased by the player guide.

The only thing that stuck out was a minor editing error, and Jhuka the Goddess; as her description was a huge leap in logic for how she ascended. Usually people who die after a failure like that become undead with that much regret. Nice to see it goes both ways now. Become an undead or experience apotheosis.

While undeath might be the likely case for most ancestries, orcs were revealed in a PFS scenario to have a cultural tradition referred to as "Vow Marks", whereupon an orc shortly before their death can declare a vow and, upon death, enter a Crucible where they will challenge any one member of the orc pantheon, risking the annihilation of their soul and all hope of resurrection or afterlife if they lose the challenge, but standing to win the divinity of the god they challenged if they win. For example, Grask and Zagresh are mentioned in the Player's Guide. I would guess we will learn more about Vow Marks, the Crucible, and the new blood joining the orc pantheon and their Crucibles in Divine Mysteries.

Arkat wrote:

3rd level? Really?

The PCs can't be *that* dignified, then.

What an odd take. Why does level affect how important characters can be? It's primarily a measure of combat ability, not social standing.

It also affects all the diplomatic skills that might be useful for dignitaries. And most of the things that might qualify someone to be sent to a conference like this.

Obviously, someone could inherit a high social status from their parents or something, but even then you likely wouldn't send the noble's child to represent the nation diplomatically unless they'd proven themselves capable.
Or you'd send with advisors to do the real work.

When the marketing has lines like "As minor dignitaries, the PCs attend the Torrentmoot" and "a grand diplomatic campaign...There are few takers." Level 3 doesn't seem like too much of a disconnect there.

I guess my last issue with the AP is that while the Player’s Guide is actually pretty informative, it doesn’t really help me to understand how a) the group of “ambassadors/diplomats/fortune seekers/opportunity exploiters become a “group of adventurers” or b) how they come to share a common goal. Given most murder hobos don’t need much more than to have accidentally on purpose fallen over a fourth wall in any available tavern this isn’t a big issue, more an observation that the narrative appears a little nebulous compared to say…Season of Ghosts or….just about any other AP. Even Strange Aeons. I guess the...

From what's publicly available this adventure seems to be doing the old "bad thing happens in first chapter, and your party comes together to investigate it" method of kicking off a campaign.

I think we end up with level 3 PCs here since we're trying to thread the needle between:

- These are people who can be counted on to not embarrass their sponsors or otherwise cause a diplomatic incident.

- These people are expendable enough that if something bad happens they can write off the whole thing and just send a sympathy card to the friends and family of the deceased.

There's not a large span of levels where both of those things are true. 3 is about right.

Hmm, does this seem like an odd choice of skill and skill feat for this background to others too?

Quote:

EMPTY HAND LOYALIST [BACKGROUND] The orcs have had a long history of violence that brings some orcs pride, but for you it’s a mark of shame. You see the path of reconciliation that Ardax is paving and find hope in the chance to transform your people’s ways into one that moves away from stereotypes of brutality ... You’re trained in the Intimidation skill and the Belkzen Lore skill. You gain the Quick Coercion skill feat.

"Violence bad, but Coercion good"?

It's a backgroung, it's what you were doing before. Being ashamed of it now doesn't mean you forget how to do it.

All I know is, meat is no longer on the table it seems, but the undead certainly are.

All I know is, meat is no longer on the table it seems, but the undead certainly are.

Many undead are in fact made of meat!

^ . . . But eating it is probably very bad for your health.

^ . . . But eating it is probably very bad for your health.

Hmm... Worth it to impress Urgathoa

UnArcaneElection wrote:

^ . . . But eating it is probably very bad for your health.

Hmm... Worth it to impress Urgathoa

Though I agree on principle, one of her anathema is : "destroy undead".

There's no rule that says a golden retriever can't eat a chunk of a still unliving undead. Wow, this is getting very grim. And very off-topic.

Very curious of the status of the Orc Pantheon. Is this the new one, or did some of these exist before and simply weren't mentioned? Also, we know Drask killed Zagrex, and Verex became a Spawn of Rovagug, but what happened to the rest of them? Are they still active and just not mentioned here, or killed by some of the other ascendants?

...Also, who do you think Mahja killed? My money's on Sezelrian.

Anyway, fun stuff! Looking forward to this AP!

So, after some information from War of Immortals...

^At least from the Pathfinder Wiki entry on Brumash, it looks like the devs have an out other than completely mysterious Spontaneous Massive Existence Failure:

Some academics speculate that Brumash might be a gestalt of Verex the Blood God and Zagresh the Destroyer.

They can just smoothly slide over to referencing him as the 2 components of his mashup.